How do we fix this?

[DeadAccount]

 

As of 4pm CST there are only 5 people online. 5. At 4pm CST... How do we fix this? This is insane even for Western timezone standards. I love renX. How can we best support the devs and inject some life into this playerbase again?

 

Here's my idea: Strip it and ship it.

I personally feel the devs need to strip all the CnC content out of the game, keep the core gameplay mechanics intact and port it into a new project.

New lore, new assets, same awesome gameplay.

 

Benefits of this idea:

- Monetary avenues: The devs will be rewarded for years of hard work. They would have limitless options from f2p models to cosmetics to battpasses, etc. We have been joking for years how cool cosmetics would be, but because of the IP and engine, it limits the devs hunger to explore those possibilities. 

- Public awareness: Doing this will allow the Devs to advertise on platforms like Steam. There is currently an arms race between Sony, Nintendo, Steam, Microsoft, Epic, EA, GoG, etc. These shops are looking for every edge to get a leg up on the others. They would love a community game like this with playerbase to boot. One of the biggest hurdles for RenX is the numerous barricades one must cross to play this game. First you need to hear about it, go to the site, download its own installer, and if you're lucky it'll run, and if you're even more lucky you'll be on when players are active. That's too many hurdles for people. 

- Endless growth potential: Stripping away the bondage of the CnC branding will allow the devs to form their own identity. They would always be able to expand on ideas that currently limit them with this mod. Like leaderboards, the risk style mechanic pitched years ago, etc.

- Cultivate an Amazing Community With Awesome People: One of the amazing things RenX is above all else is that they are a welcoming community. It doesn't matter your background, as long as you are not a jerk you are welcome here.The devs and renX community is full of amazing people who are super supportive and passionate. The discord community is evidence of that. 

 

That's my idea. Lemme know what you think. Cause right now it sucks I can't play renX ever.

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by MintLemonade

[NodSaibot]

Easier said than done, but this has been discussed multiple times. We are at a point where we kind of have to decide what we want to do. We don’t really have the time for a whole reskin, as this would include all cnc assets, inf, vehicles, buildings and stuff like tiberium. This would take probably near a whole year to get done with our current team. This ends up being around the same time line as our “roadmap” for the final “1.0” release of RenX. And having stuff like lore changes would really change what RenX is, obviously. This would also mean dropping all we are working on currently, throwing it out and making brand new stuff. It wouldn’t be a CnC inspired game, it would just be an RTS/FPS hybrid. It would all be a gamble as well. If we do end up going down the reskin road, it could end up flopping, and we could have wasted a whole year and lose some of our player base. Would take a lot of serious internal discussion, but from my view, with only a handful of people working on art for RenX, it would take far too long to get a reskin done in a reasonable amount of time.

I would love to do anything that would breathe some life into this amazing game, but I’m just not sure if the risks outweigh the benefits.

[LavaDr4gon]

Wednesdays are the worse days for RenX with player count.  Just ask @yosh56, maybe he can show the analytics.

[Madkill40]

Considering the lengths somebody must have gone to to ensure that RenegadeX wasn't assassinated by EA - I think to remove the CnC from it would be a huge slap in the face to that somebody, as it stands RenegadeX is technically the only recent CnC which hasn't been influenced by EA Games and it not only has dedicated devs willing to work voluntarily but also has an community with an actual spine. [That is to say, most if not all regulars aren't afraid to speak their mind which is awesome and its even encouraged] 

Communtiy-wise: Most of us come down hard on any elitism as well as aim to help player's learn the game, instead of belittling player's for not knowing what or how to do something. 

Additionally, 2019 marks the 4th consistent year of the weekly Pick Up Game's, it was only really towards the end of last year for one or two months when there was a noticeable dip in playercount for the Saturday PUG. 

What brings some new players in (or has other players return) is the familiarity that is Command & Conquer, the fact that RenegadeX began around 2007, still exists and is worked on to this day is incredibly commendable and inspiring of all those who have and do work on RenegadeX. (in an official capacity)

RenegadeX is an positive reminder and great nostalgic throwback to the times when C&C was a franchise at its peak and RenegadeX still lives and I hope it continues to live, as has been said in the past the best time to really push RenX in an marketing sense is at its 1.0 release - There are numerous gaming websites which I am sure will be informed of the 1.0 release and RenegadeX can make headlines with FREE publicity because it is the only Non-EA C&C title, RenX is like an great theme park in the middle of nowhere in which only a few hundred know of its existence but the park boardroom wouldn't want to push out for free publicity until the rides and attractions have all been completed. 

Once RenX has an 1.0 release I really hope that all the developers can proudly have RenX in their resume and that their efforts, time, creativity and dedication enables them jobs where their honed skills are applicable. 

Any future projects of an new IP manufactured by the RenX dev team after the 1.0 release of RenegadeX would definitely have my support. (Emotional, critical and monetary)

Keep it rollin' and time to rock'n'roll, DevTeam.

[roweboat]

I do like the idea of the concept of "Command and Conquer mode" being able to grow much larger than it currently is. And I know the dev team is hard at work with how things currently are.

I've suggested this idea myself too. I sort of see it as a natural progression into its own entity anyways.

Renegade -> Renegade 2007 mod -> Renegade X -> Something Original but still have core concepts.

I wonder how hard EA would defend the IP. yes of course "Command & Conquer" belongs to EA, but would they argue that this specific form of gameplay is also under their IP?

RenX is currently in a gray area but Sarah's right, it honestly might not be worth the gamble.

 

[NodSaibot]

1 hour ago, roweboat said:

 

I wonder how hard EA would defend the IP. yes of course "Command & Conquer" belongs to EA, but would they argue that this specific form of gameplay is also under their IP?

I think as was shown with Fortnite and PUBGs recentish legal battle, and with all the new BR games popping up, you can’t really claim any game play mode. It would be interesting if they tried to make a case for it though.

And once again, the reason I don’t necessarily support a reskin is, we literally only have 1 active artists making assets, and we are currently invested, both money and time, into the currently planned/WIP stuff. It would be a huge waste to just throw away the money and time that was put into the WIP content.

Trust me, I know that it can be hard to see the game struggling with player counts. It’s something I think about a lot. I don’t waste hundreds of hours on developing and moderating this game just for the title. I do it because I want the game to succeed, I like having players enjoy the game and I want it to thrive. I love this game, as we all do. There is always room for discussion, as nothing I say is final obviously, it’s just my opinion.

In regards to the stats, we have got our recent Stat API, which will start providing more useful metrics and data, after this upcoming patch.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Sarah.

[RadicalEdward2]

11 hours ago, roweboat said:

I do like the idea of the concept of "Command and Conquer mode" being able to grow much larger than it currently is. And I know the dev team is hard at work with how things currently are.

I've suggested this idea myself too. I sort of see it as a natural progression into its own entity anyways.

Renegade -> Renegade 2007 mod -> Renegade X -> Something Original but still have core concepts.

I wonder how hard EA would defend the IP. yes of course "Command & Conquer" belongs to EA, but would they argue that this specific form of gameplay is also under their IP?

RenX is currently in a gray area but Sarah's right, it honestly might not be worth the gamble.

 

Didn't read much of the topic and just saw it in my feed so I wanted to give some quick feedback.

Changing the games name and theme would literally kill the game. Its main appeal (at the end of the day) is the Command & Conquer feel that comes with it.

Also, alternatively, having a paypal or patreon for donations could work since its optional and not actually going to the game itself. Just have it on dev profiles for donations maybe.

 

 

[NodSaibot]

4 hours ago, RadicalEdward2 said:

Didn't read much of the topic and just saw it in my feed so I wanted to give some quick feedback.

Changing the games name and theme would literally kill the game. Its main appeal (at the end of the day) is the Command & Conquer feel that comes with it.

Also, alternatively, having a paypal or patreon for donations could work since its optional and not actually going to the game itself. Just have it on dev profiles for donations maybe.

 

 

Unfortunately we aren’t allowed to take donations of any kind, even if they directly go to the costs for the game

[isupreme]

I was joining just as a game was ending and the server petered out..... that day.

I witnessed some exasperated commanders leaving.    I immediately felt the effect.   The moral in the next game was 0.    Granted it was flakeside, but we had a good game where we resisted the cycles and prevailed with some teamwork.     The usual comments were made:  "did flakeside kill the server?"     No. it did not.    

I think we have raised the expectations in the game to the level where   ---   if there is not teamwork it really feels sucky.    Before  commanders etc....you could continue to battle on and hope.   But when they have a good commander and you have none... or when no one is healing....     do you get my drift?

Just my thoughts having landed there on that day.......

Edited January 24, 2019 by isupreme

[roweboat]

16 hours ago, Sarah. said:

And once again, the reason I don’t necessarily support a reskin is, we literally only have 1 active artists making assets, and we are currently invested, both money and time, into the currently planned/WIP stuff. It would be a huge waste to just throw away the money and time that was put into the WIP content.

1

Yeah that makes complete sense, would hate to see hard work put to waste.

 

If any type of "reskin" where to happen down the line, I think the best route might be to bring Renegade X to another established indie developer that has the manpower and motivation and partner with to create a spiritual successor to Renegade X. (as in a version that can be monetized)

 

Maybe one of these days I'll start learning how to code haha.

[STANISLAV]

The biggest problem is finding new players. About RenegadeX do not write in the gaming media, almost no one knows about it. I found out about this game by accident 4 years ago when I tried to download the original Renegade. And most likely I am not the only one. How can you be sure that after the connection with C & C is lost, new people will start coming to the game? Getting into Steam is not a guarantee of success, there are also many good games that they don’t know about. We can lose fans of this universe, and new people are not found. Another problem is that those who downloaded the game in the middle of the day and logged in - see empty servers and delete the game (dilemma), as happened to several of my friends, whom I invited to play. I don’t know what to do, I’m very sad that there are so few players in the RX. 

PS. I do not understand English well, so this text was written using google translate and maybe it will not betray everything that I wanted to say.

[DeadAccount]

 

I understand the desire to finish something you started. I'm sure what's cooking is fantastic and serene and I look forward to experiencing it!

To me, I guess it's worth asking if the devs are only interested in RenX because of the CnC universe? If so, cool! But..

if the devs feel like they can take these embers of genius and craft their alchemy into something extraordinary. Something utterly unique. That's truly exciting. 

 

When the game does reach 1.0 release, i'm not saying shut down the shop. Just let RenX be its own entity, a hub, while you all expand onto bigger things. Treat RenX as your hub of operations. We can still pug, play, and hang out here until the release of the new game.

As far as concerns of playerbase, even the most docile games garner support in this modern gaming landscape. I would be shocked if the game didn't achieve more than 64 concurrent players in a day. Especially with all the multi-platform options now. And the limitless freedom it would bring would be amazing.

I guess it just comes down whether the devs wish to go on a new adventure? 

It would be long, and winding, with stress lurching its arms around every corner, but in the end it will be exceptionally extraordinary.

I hope they consider it.

 

[NodSaibot]

No one is saying shutdown RenX after 1.0, I think the idea is to try and grow the game after that. And yes, while we (Totem Arts), may move on to another game, hopefully, all support for RenX won’t be dropped. Someone has to host the website, download servers and the dev bot/server list.

[LavaDr4gon]

I hope the devs won't leave after 1.0 is released considering how every update brings out so, so many bugs that need a hotfix.

[TK0104]

We keep supporting RenX after 1.0, we most likely will be stuck with this game another half year on fixing stuff and rebalancing stuff if necessarry

[SonnyX]

Personally I feel a lot could be done with some publicity, some pre-designed posters users could put up in their neighbourhoods/schools promoting the game, but in my opinion in order to even start gathering publicity we need something to bridge the steep learning slope of the game, which the devs currently are trying to bridge with a tutorial level.

[Guest once upon the time]

This topic sounds (unfortunately now in German, because it is a phrase and Google would only translate nonsense:

Der letzte Abgesang   (The last swan song , no idea if the translation is correct).

You want more people to play, which is certainly good, but some Topics do exactly the opposite.
Some examples:
Mints idea was great, the execution was unfortunately just the opposite to get new people. Topic name badly chosen and then another ranking without data.
It was more for insiders and it's hard to win new players.

Here this topic repeats itself again and again in the Renegade X story, several times such come on.
Well, and the answers from the devs are just not very constructive for many players.
It sounds like this: we're still doing something .....

Yes what is because if there is 1.0, synonymous made new maps, etc.

I do not know, but here this topic really sounds like the last swan song to me.

I know again that a lot of people will not like my comment, but I do not have to win a popularity contest either.
PS: Have some ever asked themselves if you are not part of the problem?

[Xtractor]

I do my part for RenX ,check my steam profile,and on twitter regulary posting a little something.might make do a sticker for my motorcycles ..with something like "I play Renx ..Do you?"  Would be good for those having cars that can used a custom license plate..

 

[yosh56]

A fully functional launcher, then an advertisement trailer that's newer than 2015 would probably help

[NodSaibot]

2 hours ago, yosh56 said:

A fully functional launcher, then an advertisement trailer that's newer than 2015 would probably help

this

[DeadAccount]

11 hours ago, Sarah. said:

this

with fully integrated seasonal leaderboards

[Redarmy]

Someone told me the launcher was @Agent's job so, @Agent

[Cronus]

We open sourced the launcher and hope to bring forth any C# devs that are willing to work on the Launcher and Improve it.

Anyone interested can send PR's and check out the existing open Issues on our Github. See below

 

https://github.com/TotemArts/Rx_Launcher

[Elliott]

I found (UK time) the most popular time is Sunday evenings. Few people play during the day, maybe no more than 15. 

 

Here's a few reasons why I think there aren't many players:

- Renegade wasn't that popular to begin with. People who did play back in the early-mid 2000s have probably long forgotten about Renegade.

- If you search "C&C Renegade" on Google, Renegade X is the 8th result, right at the bottom. And the search result title just says "Renegade X: Home". Maybe it should be "C&C Renegade X". People will know what it's about instantly.

- Back to the point of people forgetting about renegade, people who did play C&C when they where teens in the 90s are now in their 30s. They might be married, have kids, and haven't got time to find out about this. 

- I'm 19. I only know about Renegade because my brother used to play it when I was 5 and he was 16, I have good memories of playing multiplayer practice on under when I was 7/8 on my brothers computer (even though I had no clue on how to play). But many people my age wouldn't have a clue what command and conquer was, and the only version they might now is the shitty EA version.

- Renegade + X multiplayer also isn't a game you can just download and know how to play, like GTA. Noobs will pick up Renegade X and have no idea what the hell is going on. Like what would "SBH rush to wf/ref/pp/bar/AGT" mean to a noob? A load of gibberish.  

 

[NodSaibot]

21 minutes ago, Elliott said:

- If you search "C&C Renegade" on Google, Renegade X is the 8th result, right at the bottom. And the search result title just says "Renegade X: Home". Maybe it should be "C&C Renegade X". People will know what it's about instantly.

 

We aren't allowed to brand Renegade X as C&C.

21 minutes ago, Elliott said:

- Renegade + X multiplayer also isn't a game you can just download and know how to play, like GTA. Noobs will pick up Renegade X and have no idea what the hell is going on. Like what would "SBH rush to wf/ref/pp/bar/AGT" mean to a noob? A load of gibberish.  

 

Tutorials take a while to make, they are in the works currently.

[EnkerZan]

From what I have seen over the years, there are 6 major factors as to why the popularity and playerbase is so low:

1. Many players from old Renegade really despise this game, and have gone to great lengths to tell other people to stay away from it.

2. There is very little advertisement for this game anywhere. 

3. The lack of servers for all countries (only recently this started getting remedied.)

4. Many people don't like stand-alone games that aren't linked to major game distributors like Steam.

5. Lots of people don't have good PCs that can run this game properly.

6. People who play competitive games like this one would rather play it on a console than a PC to avoid any and all cheats that could occur. 

[STANISLAV]

2 hours ago, EnkerZan said:

1. Many players from old Renegade really despise this game, and have gone to great lengths to tell other people to stay away from it.

Why do they despise? I have not heard of this

[NodSaibot]

27 minutes ago, STANISLAV said:

Why do they despise? I have not heard of this

It’s different from Renegade. I think most expected it to basically just be a port to a different engine (which it isn’t). Renegade is a LOT slower gameplay, with fewer mechanics. There are many other differences, but those are the same. The only remaining players of Ren are die hard fans

[vandal33]

1 hour ago, STANISLAV said:

Why do they despise? I have not heard of this

This is true. I spent a lot of time being nosy on mpf and rencorner renegade community.

I heard that they dislike the graphics, jumping is bad with that weird UT gravity, bad vehicle steering, bad physics, etc. It's like they were only expecting a HD remake of Renegade on a new engine but they didn't expect everything bad that comes with it. And yes, most of the remaining players there are hardcore fans who didn't like how RenegadeX make them feel like playing a different game.

[Elliott]

 

1 hour ago, vandal33 said:

This is true. I spent a lot of time being nosy on mpf and rencorner renegade community.

 

My brother was very active in the Renegade community back in the mid 2000s, and he dislikes Renegade X.   

Here's what he told me:

• It's slowly turning more into a sequel than a remake, for example the building armour/health, tech buildings.
• The game is missing a few things from the original. The old EVA voice (which I have to admit I prefer the old), city and glacier maps (I swear there was another, I can't remember) and some of the crates as well. Also Visceroid's used to appear when you could killed by a chem gun or tiberium. 

 

I'm sure there where more crates in the original, like ion cannon strikes that put all buildings down to 50%, obi/agt guns, and I'm sure there was one where it would disable the agt/obi for a minute or two. I'm sure there was one where it would make you a visceroid as well.

 

 

Although he did say that he liked things like sprinting, having basic vehicles after wf/air have been destroyed and having SBH with repair guns maybe give nod a bit of an advantage on maps without base defences. 

[Fffreak9999]

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

city and glacier maps (I swear there was another, I can't remember)

City is under development, as for Glacier, there is no active development that I am aware of for this map.

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

It's slowly turning more into a sequel than a remake, for example the building armour/health, tech buildings.

It was never intended to be a straight port of a game (as far as I was told in the beginning), and like you mentioned, some things that changed such as sprinting would also go against what you said here, it certainly isn't a sequel (not being an official game either), but a fan reimagining of what Renegade should have been in the minds of the Totem Arts Development team.

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

and some of the crates as well. Also Visceroid's used to appear when you could killed by a chem gun or tiberium.  

There are new crates being added all the while, including the Tiberian Sun Vehicle crates, Classic Vehicles (Bradley Light Tank), and the Epic Sydney and Raveshaw crates just to name a few, Who is to say that some of these could not be implimented at a later date.

1 hour ago, Elliott said:

and he dislikes Renegade X.

There is also no reason why he could not assist in development of the game in his own way, he could quite easily pick up the SDK and try and learn a little bit of unrealscript and make his own version how he likes (via mutator). The game can be pretty much fully customised by any end user who is willing to put time into creating it.

[Madkill40]

2 hours ago, Elliott said:

I'm sure there where more crates in the original, like ion cannon strikes that put all buildings down to 50%, obi/agt guns, and I'm sure there was one where it would disable the agt/obi for a minute or two. I'm sure there was one where it would make you a visceroid as well.

Any of that stuff was not in the Vanilla Renegade Multiplayer experience, that stuff came later unofficially.  Most servers had crates disabled weirdly enough so not too sure what the contents of Vanilla Ren's crates would be but never came across anything which has been mentioned above.

2 hours ago, Elliott said:

It's slowly turning more into a sequel than a remake, for example the building armour/health, tech buildings.

Well its a good thing somebody out there is working on an "OldRen" mutator.

The Armour/health and other such added stuff has been a vast improvement. Was your guy also a fan of disarming a nuke beacon with 1 second to go whereby the nuclear missile just vanishes into thin air? It looked daft! Anyway, a "die hard" fan doesn't strike me as somebody who doesn't like to see their OldRen refined and remade. That sounds more like a 'Toxic' fan - i.e. somebody refusing to change with the times and not really giving the changes a chance.

A die hard SW fan isn't the guy complaining about anything and everything as to why things aren't the way they expected them to be- that's a toxic s.o.b.

[NodSaibot]

https://github.com/sevans045/OGRenMutator

[MajesticSausage]

I'm an old school Ren player. Used to play endless rounds of Under on skirmish until my dad got us a fast enough connection to play online. GameSpy for days. I loved that game.

But:

RenX, is so much better than Renegade that I'm slightly baffled that so many oldies hate it (I mean sure, prefer the old one, but really, hate RenX? Those or some mightily rose tinted glasses you have on friend.)

The biggest change that makes a vast improvement imo is the pacing of games. Whilst it's still not exactly uncommon in RenX, old Ren was much more of camp fest. 90% of rounds were simply resolved by one team winning the field and then camping outside the enemy base until some of the enemy engineers got distracted enough and let a building die.

The other 10% was either early suicide APC engie rushes into the HoN. YOLO.  Or mass Flamers/Meds, also YOLO

Like I say these are still common in RenX (maybe less so the APC rush) but there is a lot more space for variation.

Building armour means that it's possible to have partially successful attacks that are still worth while. In oldRen it was binary, either your attack succeeded or it didn't, in RenX it's always worth a try, so that encourages lots of smaller coordinated attacks.

Commanders help two fold. Having a designated leader helps bring together coordinated attacks helping move the game beyond the uncoordinated camping phase and commander powers are very useful for helping break a deadlock. Using defence boost to push out of a besieged base is a wholly underrated tactic imo.

Finally, the map design has moved on. I've talked before about how (somewhat bizarrely) you can see some of the early DNA of MOBAs in Renegade. Lanes, Heroes and Bases with very linear push and pull game-play.

That is not a criticism, it's still very much how RenX plays out now, but oldRen was much more narrow in its map design, most of the time it was 1 infantry path and 1 open field area. And thus the camping of the chokepoints was assured.

Compare that to RenX map design. Most of the ported maps have had extra routes added to them, tech buildings mean that one team can build momentum with map control (although this can cause its own problems) and new maps, generally, are a lot more open.

Case in point: I personally feel that Whiteout is a better version of Hourglass. The main improvement imo is that the central area is far more accessible, making firefights a lot more fluid. Flanking routes are possible for infantry even when enemy tanks have the hill locked down and the side routes are no longer entirely isolated from each other. It's a dynamic, fast map that rarely turns into an hours long slug fest, it always feels like you can make a contribution to the fight, even if you blew all your cash on an SBH, Stank, Nuke combo that you accidentally drove into a minefield and now all you can afford is a shotgunner with a repair tool.

None of this is to say that the pacing is perfect, and stalemates and deadlocks are a solved problem, but they are lightyears ahead of oldRen. I can see more merit in people disliking the gun-play, it takes quite a bit of getting used to and it's very much a subjective game-feel thing. But empirically I think it is hard to argue that oldRen is a better game.

That said, on the actual topic of this thread, how can we make the game more inviting to others? My feelings are, do more of the above. Forget about stodgy oldRen players who won't be happy with anything new and pursue the direction the design has been heading in with gusto.

As a thought experiment, I consider why I don't invite my friends to play RenX with me. They know I play it a shit load and have asked me what it is in the past, but I have straight up said to them "I doubt you would enjoy it."  The main issue is that the difference between a good round of RenX and a bad one is incredibly stark. I rarely have an OK game on RenX, it's either brilliant or dreadful.

If my friends joined a game and it happened to be well coordinated, lots of push and pull and people executing raids, rushes and infiltrations there is a good chance they'd become as hooked as I am. But it is more likely they will hit an hour long stalemate on Under, have no idea what they are doing, get headshot by pyonjpn 50 times and then bounce from the game forever.

 

P.S. If someone wrote a README for the launcher repo that would help potential contributors a lot.

 

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by MajesticSausage

[RadicalEdward2]

On 1/24/2019 at 3:09 PM, Sarah. said:

Unfortunately we aren’t allowed to take donations of any kind, even if they directly go to the costs for the game

That sucks.

At least there's some comfort that can be found in knowing that the active maintenance of this fan-game is keeping a portion of the C&C community.

[Guest once upon the time]

I also wanted to write something positive and it refers to the topic "Sunday Pug".
This is a great way to win new people, keep it up.
hats off
PS: but please do not advertise on foreign servers (unwritten law).
You have discord, forum and facebook and other options

 

[iridesence]

there is almost no word of mouth about this game whatsoever outside the niche C&C fanbase.   this doesn't help the game honestly.  if you want more people to show, you need to get word out that this game exists..  (post in more prominent places/etc with larger audiences)

 

still wont solve the issue of this being a niche game-type though.  will need to find a way to attract despite that.

[roweboat]

@MajesticSausage Yes I'd agree that most matches are either fantastic or frustrating. Not much middle ground. It's sort of the nature of the game I think. 

It's always thrilling when good team coordination can help turn a match around.

 

I think one of Renegade's best "selling points" is its team-based gameplay.

Personally, I'm not a fan of all these "free-for-all" style games. 

[cncforever]

Renegade X is like fight club.

[RadicalEdward2]

On 2/8/2019 at 10:50 PM, cncforever said:

Renegade X is like fight club.

it shouldn't be though. the game needs more traffic for it to grow. the bigger the community, the more potential there is for feedback and community-created maps and stuff

[djlaptop]

I haven't been around here much lately, but I have a few thoughts that I'd like to share, take them for what they're worth.

1) The C&C branding is what attracted most of us to this game initially. However the last "Tiberium Series" game was almost a decade ago. If you want a game to succeed in the current climate, you need to attract players in ages from teens through about 30, and I don't know that the C&C branding helps that anymore. It's one of those "old" brands like Pac Man that has grown stale due to not having any new titles.

Yes, C&C is getting a remaster by Petroglyph (so hopefully the new ones will be pretty good), but there's no release date and we've seen how easily C&C projects get canceled.

In light of this, I think a reskin should be seriously considered. You don't have to change the lore all that much. Simply changing the names and appearances of the characters and items beyond a reasonable legal threshold should suffice, but behaviors can stay the same. I would be just as happy driving my "invisibility tank" through a "chem-gem field" as I am driving my Stealth Tank through Tiberium.

2) Re: lack of artists to do a proper reskin... I remember years ago there was talk about making RenX open source. Not sure what happened to that line of thought, but what if a reskin was launched as a forked project with a new/shared team? The two iterations of the game could coexist and promote one another, likewise members of the RenX team could simultaneously work on the reskin team so that they could personally benefit from any revenues it brings in. Obviously you would need strict accounting and a very clear boundary between the projects in order to honor the original EA agreement.

Building a new team for a reskin would undoubtedly be a challenge, but it might be easier to recruit talent that is willing to invest their time for a possible payoff down the line than those who do this as a passion project for free (nothing wrong with either approach, just speaking in general terms about talent acquisition).

Just a few thoughts. Hope everyone is well. Happy late new year to you all. :)

[NodSaibot]

1 minute ago, djlaptop said:

2) Re: lack of artists to do a proper reskin... I remember years ago there was talk about making RenX open source. Not sure what happened to that line of thought, but what if a reskin was launched as a forked project with a new/shared team? The two iterations of the game could coexist and promote one another, likewise members of the RenX team could simultaneously work on the reskin team so that they could personally benefit from any revenues it brings in. Obviously you would need strict accounting and a very clear boundary between the projects in order to honor the original EA agreement.

Building a new team for a reskin would undoubtedly be a challenge, but it might be easier to recruit talent that is willing to invest their time for a possible payoff down the line than those who do this as a passion project for free (nothing wrong with either approach, just speaking in general terms about talent acquisition).

Just a few thoughts. Hope everyone is well. Happy late new year to you all. :)

The game is open source. The SDK includes everything in the game. You could download that, make your own changes, download JupiterBot (server list backend), download the source code of the launcher and change the server list domain to your own. You could just make an entire RenX clone on your own if you really wanted to, all the tools are there.

[Madkill40]

Renegade-X does better than EmpiresMod so RenX has that going for it at least...

 

Lets bear in mind that last year after the DDoS'ing the playerbase on public games was hit pretty hard and its actually built back enough that there's sometimes more than one active server with an fair few amount of players. 

For a game which struggles to advertise due to reasons its playerbase growth is okay and slowly increasing

[Marinealver]

Problem with any online based multiplayer game, heck even AAA games struggle with this. When is the last time you saw a populated Titanfall server.

So the obvious short term solution is bots. But with Bot AI being Bot AI this would be an interim solution at best. I know similar games (i.e. Angels Fall First) that has fallen back on bots but with these combined arms shooters if you don't have bots developed to take roles and provide coordination it will be very difficult to program. You sort of need Alpha and Beta type bots, Alpha being the aggressive combat bots and beta being the more of a support role. 

Another is exposure, I mean the last review of this game I can see on YouTube is from Total Biscuit (God Rest His Soul), trying to see youtubers that take a retrospective look at games like this is one way to look at it. As far as I can tell there is still a populated playerbase. Some examples come to mind like Mandalore Gaming. Although you might get a more critical perspective form the game such as the balance being in favor for NOD.

[NodSaibot]

17 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

NOD

[Akbaro]

Very Cool!

[Suspiria]

On 1/29/2019 at 5:51 PM, EnkerZan said:

1. Many players from old Renegade really despise this game, and have gone to great lengths to tell other people to stay away from it.

 

On 1/29/2019 at 9:03 PM, Sarah. said:

It’s different from Renegade. I think most expected it to basically just be a port to a different engine (which it isn’t). Renegade is a LOT slower gameplay, with fewer mechanics. There are many other differences, but those are the same. The only remaining players of Ren are die hard fans

 

On 1/30/2019 at 1:44 AM, Fffreak9999 said:

It was never intended to be a straight port of a game ............., but a fan reimagining of what Renegade should have been in the minds of the Totem Arts Development team.

 

On 1/30/2019 at 10:47 AM, MajesticSausage said:

I'm an old school Ren player. ........... 
........Forget about stodgy oldRen players who won't be happy with anything new

&
If someone wrote a README

 

On 2/19/2019 at 10:07 AM, djlaptop said:

The C&C branding is what attracted most of us to this game initially.

Quoting myself here for a bit:

" The difference between a good and a great product, is the difference between having a hard time selling it versus having it pretty much sell itself.
If the product is great, then the persistent word-of-mouth will be your most powerful ad campaign that you will néver have to pay for.

Those are X^Y walking billboards all over the f place, that don't have to be managed ánd who don't ask for money all the time.
All of them can work fór you, or against you. "

Right now, we might even have things working AGAINST us.

Ren-X apparently had hundreds of players in the beginning before the attacks (by who?!?) and now has a reputation of not being C&C Renegade enough. I'm afraid we scared off those players by not making their expected port.

Were they right to expect a port from us? Maybe not
Did "they" want a port from us? Definately, yes

So many outrage and disappointments, heck DDoS attacks even.
That's a huge signal to start turning the wheel.

That negativity and disappointment needs to be called out and catered to. WITH, a drop of honey.

Thing is, with any product ya have to follow the market.
It's about what the audience wants. We are ought to listen to it and steer accordingly.

The way I see it, it will certainly help to offer a new home to those diehard Renegaders. Start getting them IN HERE already.
They're our allies and fellow C&C-lovers, not our 'toxic' enemies!

And once they feel at home within our community, they're waaay more likely to switch to the X game mode aswell.
And tell their gamer friends. We could use their company right now, while we are still quite an endangered species.

So afaic, we're not just building some tiny little OGRen knockoff mutator.
Nah. We have to build a serious Classic/Old-School Game Mode. And ask for forgiveness.

We had hundreds of players earlier, we can do that again...
Yet we have to start Listening - with the big L - more closely.

To (some of) those disappointed, sad, and 'toxic' people.
Those are pain-points right there. Nostalgia is there for a reason.

If we can provide for them, then they can provide for us.
And it'll become a strong WE. All those people all sharing their 2cts and joining in on the fun.

I'm sure I sound like I know everything now. I can absolutely be wrong about this. For sure.
It's just that my intuïtion is telling me otherwise right now.

We gotta stop resisting our audience, lol.
A respectable chunk of it, that is.

So let's get back to work.

Edited April 10, 2019 by DugeHick

[yosh56]

3 hours ago, DugeHick said:

 

 

 

 

Quoting myself here for a bit:

" The difference between a good and a great product, is the difference between having a hard time selling it versus having it pretty much sell itself.
If the product is great, then the persistent word-of-mouth will be your most powerful ad campaign that you will néver have to pay for.

Those are X^Y walking billboards all over the f place, that don't have to be managed ánd who don't ask for money all the time.
All of them can work fór you, or against you. "

Right now, we might even have things working AGAINST us.

Ren-X apparently had hundreds of players in the beginning before the attacks (by who?!?) and now has a reputation of not being C&C Renegade enough. I'm afraid we scared off those players by not making their expected port.

Were they right to expect a port from us? Maybe not
Did "they" want a port from us? Definately, yes

So many outrage and disappointments, heck DDoS attacks even.
That's a huge signal to start turning the wheel.

That negativity and disappointment needs to be called out and catered to. WITH, a drop of honey.

Thing is, with any product ya have to follow the market.
It's about what the audience wants. We are ought to listen to it and steer accordingly.

The way I see it, it will certainly help to offer a new home to those diehard Renegaders. Start getting them IN HERE already.
They're our allies and fellow C&C-lovers, not our 'toxic' enemies!

And once they feel at home within our community, they're waaay more likely to switch to the X game mode aswell.
And tell their gamer friends. We could use their company right now, while we are still quite an endangered species.

So afaic, we're not just building some tiny little OGRen knockoff mutator.
Nah. We have to build a serious Classic/Old-School Game Mode. And ask for forgiveness.

We had hundreds of players earlier, we can do that again...
Yet we have to start Listening - with the big L - more closely.

To (some of) those disappointed, sad, and 'toxic' people.
Those are pain-points right there. Nostalgia is there for a reason.

If we can provide for them, then they can provide for us.
And it'll become a strong WE. All those people all sharing their 2cts and joining in on the fun.

I'm sure I sound like I know everything now. I can absolutely be wrong about this. For sure.
It's just that my intuïtion is telling me otherwise right now.

We gotta stop resisting our audience, lol.
A respectable chunk of it, that is.

So let's get back to work.

Okay so, I'm just going to cut that one off really quick and say that the 100s of players was back at like beta 1 launch. Then by beta 2/3 it was already down to basically what it is now.

If you look at people talking about the game around the internet, the vast majority hated it for being too much like OldRen, game play wise, as the game used to stalemate HARD a lot. Like 3-4 hour games. 

That being said, a lot of OldRen players were leaving at like...beta 1 or 2 already. They were NEVER going to like it because it wasn't Renegade. Those that left after the later changes of beta 5 just didnt like those changes, but for those that left, we adopted a new playerbase based on those changes, because they were changes that addressed what was 'wrong' with CnC mode. 

The true OG Ren players are honestly never going to leave OGRen. They didnt like RenX since the UT3 mod, and some of them still judge it based off of that for whatever reason. Changing the game back now would just help lose the current playerbase, and it wouldnt exactly be flailing well spent. 

I've got... zero interest in bringing back those 50-60 diehard fans, though I do feel for them with Interim Apex now having kind of destroyed Old Ren.

--------

TL;DR 

Back when RenX had actual hundreds of players, eg more than just ~80 players on at once, was back in beta 1, and a but of beta 2. It was still 'new, but it was down to 2 40 player servers LOOOONG before it started straying further from OldRen.

Really don't think most people enjoy playing 2 hour long matches in most FPSs... It will forever be the true hurdle of CnC mode.

 

[Suspiria]

1 hour ago, yosh56 said:

Okay so, I'm just going to cut that one off really quick

No need to cut anything off. We're all on the same "side" here.

Quote

the vast majority hated it for being too much like OldRen

Noted.

Quote

Changing the game back now

No way in heaven.

What is being discussed (and worked on) is about investing *some* of our resources into developing a very decent Classic Game Mode as an option. ... Not changing the game back to something that is boring and underdeveloped to the majority.

If such a mode would be truly for an absolute maximum of only 50-60 people, then it wouldn't make much sense to do it.
It's just that I'm not so sure yet about those numbers.

I think those are actual Active players that you're talking about. With a somewhat dormant playerbase behind it.
Who go through the struggle of getting OldRen to work, and are somehow not turned off by the older engine.

OldRen has a different kind of magic about it.
It's quite spooky, dark-industrial, mysterious, mystical even. As are its sounds.

What I primarily want to figure out here, is this:
Where exactly did those hundreds of players coming from?

My guess is that most of those people were all more or less Renegade-specific fans.
As we have never been allowed to advertise with the C&C brand.

Did those hundreds leave because of the technical and social difficulties that were had for a while?
.. Or did those hundreds leave because they didn't like the new non-OldRen UT3-like non-eerie/mysterious feel?

Where did those hundreds come from in the first place? How is it, that we can or cannot repeat that process?
I think this is worth investigating.

It seems to me, that while you think it's the former, I'd like to leave open the simple possibility that it might be the latter.
I want to make absolutely sure that that, is not in fact the case, first. Before "cutting this one off".

Quote

"LOOOONG before it started straying further from OldRen"

Maybe you can fill me in as to what engine Renegade-X was using before UE3?
Because for many the UT3 look & feel alone already counts as straying far, far away from OldRen.

Edited April 10, 2019 by DugeHick

[yosh56]

4 minutes ago, DugeHick said:

Maybe you can fill me in as to what engine Renegade-X was using before UE3?
Because for many the UT3 look & feel alone already counts as straying far, far away from OldRen.

Originally Ren-X was built as a mod for Unreal Tournament 3. That meant you actually had to have UT3 to run it, and it limited the game somewhat. 

Right now it used the Unreal 3 Development Kit so it's its 'own thing' as opposed to a mod.