All defenses should leave an building husk when destroyed

[Eagle XI]

Exactly what it says in the title.

 

edit: Its inspecially silly with the nod gun turret seeing that concrete base evoporates into thin air upon destruction.

This suggestion does not include the respawning manned turrets on certain maps, only the automated base defenses.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Eagle XI

[djlaptop]

I mean, if you really want to get picky you could say the same thing about vehicles.

[Madkill40]

2 hours ago, djlaptop said:

I mean, if you really want to get picky you could say the same thing about vehicles.

A destructible vehicle husk (75 health - 325 health) and automated defenses should look like the destroyed structure it is post-destruction.

A good way to reward infantry on the field with cover.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Madkill40

[Guest Gliven]

I would also like to see dead bodies being left on the battlefield. Gruesome, but effective way to stop people from coming through the tunnels.

[NodSaibot]

The turret does have 3 separate models created that are "destroyed". Simply a case of editing the turret vehicle class and making 1 of these spawn at death. At least, I anticipate that's how hard it would be.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Sarah!

[Eagle XI]

When the AGT/Obelisk gets destroyed it produces an husk, it does not simply evoporate into thin air. This husk still provides cover for the infantry after its death. This should be the same with guardtowers and turrets.

Destructible vehicle husks had been either tried in OpenRA or one of its mods, they were detrimental to the flow of battle as it had became extremely easy to block an chokepoint. Dont know if they are still in as havent played it that much.

Cant see how corpse-piles are relevant at all.

.

[Sn4ke]

As far as I know vehicle wreckages were part of an early beta, they got removed due to performance issues.

[NodSaibot]

40 minutes ago, Eagle XI said:

When the AGT/Obelisk gets destroyed it produces an husk, it does not simply evoporate into thin air. This husk still provides cover for the infantry after its death. This should be the same with guardtowers and turrets.

It doesn't produce a husk, it simply changes the MIC, turns off the lights, sounds and activates particle systems.

 

41 minutes ago, Eagle XI said:

 

Cant see how corpse-piles are relevant at all.

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Eagle XI said:

Destructible vehicle husks had been either tried in OpenRA or one of its mods, they were detrimental to the flow of battle as it had became extremely easy to block an chokepoint. Dont know if they are still in as havent played it that much.

Original Renegade had this at some point, and they died pretty fast. However, you could repair them and respawn the vehicle. I just feel like this would decrease game performance and make some weird bugs with collision.

 

4 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

As far as I know vehicle wreckages were part of an early beta, they got removed due to performance issues.

I know that pieces flying off of vehicles/explosions caused crashes frequently as well

[RypeL]

1 hour ago, Sarah! said:

I know that pieces flying off of vehicles/explosions caused crashes frequently as well

Yes, vehicle Husks could crash the game for reasons that couldnt be pinned down (cause it happened too randomly and couldnt be reproduced). I think even after removing pieces flying off it still caused crashes. Only deactivating vehicle husks completly finally stopped the crashes.

Since they were removed for all vehicles and since turrets are technically stationary vehicles, they also lost their husks. As we dont know where the crashes originate from it maybe could be tried to reactivate husks just for turrets and see how it goes.

[NodSaibot]

12 minutes ago, RypeL said:

Yes, vehicle Husks could crash the game for reasons that couldnt be pinned down (cause it happened too randomly and couldnt be reproduced). I think even after removing pieces flying off it still caused crashes. Only deactivating vehicle husks completly finally stopped the crashes.

Since they were removed for all vehicles and since turrets are technically stationary vehicles, they also lost their husks. As we dont know where the crashes originate from it maybe could be tried to reactivate husks just for turrets and see how it goes.

Yeah, I heard about that kind of weird issues from Havoc89. I also learned a lot of interesting things about vehicles and building defenses from the SDK and working on the AGN mutators.

 

I don't think it's necessary for this change to even be in place, as, like I said, I think it would cause issues with performance and weird collision issues.

[TK0104]

Can remember these crashes happened a lot on Walls back in the day

 

It's weird this didn't happen in UT3 days where the complete turret was still there after it was destroyed

Edited January 17, 2018 by TK0104

[Eagle XI]

5 hours ago, RypeL said:

Yes, vehicle Husks could crash the game for reasons that couldnt be pinned down (cause it happened too randomly and couldnt be reproduced). I think even after removing pieces flying off it still caused crashes. Only deactivating vehicle husks completly finally stopped the crashes.

Since they were removed for all vehicles and since turrets are technically stationary vehicles, they also lost their husks. As we dont know where the crashes originate from it maybe could be tried to reactivate husks just for turrets and see how it goes.

Aha, now got it why.

[AlienXAXS]

I know this goes against most peoples view on this, however I agree with Eagle that the turrets should be swapped out to the "Halp, i'm dead!" model
However as far as im aware, we dont have a "Halp, i'm dead" model for the machine gun turrets.

But yeah @Sarah! you're right, it should be as simple as just spawning in the husk static mesh in place of the turret once it's dead, my only worries are: if a vehicle was humping the turret at the time of it being killed, and the new static mesh got spawned in, i am unsure how the vehicle and new mesh would interact with each other.

*this comment in no way is the view of the development team and is purely my own*

[NodSaibot]

You could also just spawn in a mesh with the basic GuardTower and have it using the damage MIC, unless that's not possible? Not really sure the limits of spawning stuff. Seems pretty weird to do it that way.

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Sarah!

[AlienXAXS]

Would it not be easier to copy the SM and apply a different "broken" material to it then save it in a custom package and spawn that in instead?

[NodSaibot]

If it would be a mutator and not a game feature, yes.

[Eagle XI]

About the vehicle collision problem, suppose it can emit an wave of knockback at spawn to let the tank simply bounce off a little bit.

Another solution could be to instead destroying and then spawning an new object in its spot keep the turret ingame with 0 health, make it invincible an unrepairable upon hitting 0 hp, give it a damaged skin for being at 0 health and then emulate giving the kill xp via trigger since it does not truely die in this case.

[vandal33]

but why?

[NodSaibot]

9 minutes ago, vandal33 said:

but why?

More realistic and it kind of makes sense.

[AlienXAXS]

@vandal33 if you were to destroy a small shed or outhouse in real life, it would not simply disappear, it's just realilism, also, a broken turrent with smoke bellowing from it is far easier to see IMHO than no turret at all in terms of gameplay and knowing if it's gonna shoot you or not.

 

@Sarah! Yeah thinking mutator currently.

[Madkill40]

Annoyingly you can't put a destroyed husk inside either GT as this stops the GTs from firing ): 

Husk on death would be ideal, at least for base defences.

Maybe at some other point in the future vehicles could leave destructible husks for every 1 in 12 vehicles? 

[roweboat]

5 hours ago, AlienXAXS said:

if a vehicle was humping the turret at the time of it being killed, and the new static mesh got spawned in, i am unsure how the vehicle and new mesh would interact with each other.

*this comment in no way is the view of the development team and is purely my own*

1

One would hope, it would create an anti-gravity effect and the tank would go flying 9,000 feet up into the sky.

 

Not unlike in Coastal_Small, when you put a mammoth tank in the place where the hovercraft respawns. =D

[TomUjain]

I like the idea, of having bodies and tank 'husks' ...but although it will be visually pleasing, it does come with a lot of drawbacks; namly the added lag / pling, and required dev work (for very little in way of returns, aside from a minor visual upgrade on the maps)

I really don't think it will change very much, and won't add anything new to the gameplay -- and for the work and time to make something like this I don't think it is worth it.

 

[Madkill40]

3 hours ago, TomUjain said:

I like the idea, of having bodies and tank 'husks' ...but although it will be visually pleasing, it does come with a lot of drawbacks; namly the added lag / pling, and required dev work (for very little in way of returns, aside from a minor visual upgrade on the maps)

I really don't think it will change very much, and won't add anything new to the gameplay -- and for the work and time to make something like this I don't think it is worth it.

 

It maintains immersion, which is important

[TomUjain]

I didn't say it would be a bad thing to have husks left behind, it would be an awesome thing! But is the payoff worth it? It would require new models, new scrips and will generate lag and new bugs / glitches -- all for the sake of a few props. Off the top of my head these things stick out;

- when do you cut off the amount of husks that spawn? (e.g. capped at 10, 20, 60?)

- How are you going to address possible lag issues? on servers of 60+ players?

- Will the 'husks' block off sections of the map? If so, can this be abused?

- How long will the husk stay behind? Does it just 'vanish' - can they, for example block off beacons.

- Will it be problematic if 'husks' spawn in places they shouldn't e.g. inside WF bay - and if so, what effect will this have on the game?

- Map design; are smaller maps e.g. Snow, suitable to have husks? What effects will this have on other similar maps?

 

Those are just a few I thought of. With such a small dev team and community, it isn't worth the time and effort. For sure immersion is important, but gameplay is more important -- the sole reason people play. This feature doesn't add anything new, aside from pretty corpses -  that is my main problem.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2018 by TomUjain

[AlienXAXS]

As the OP Title explained, this is for leaving husks for base defenses only...

Personally I don't think that leaving husks for actual vehicles is a good idea, but for vehicle based base defenses, it should be okay (Turrets, GDi/NOD Machine Gun Emplacements, yadda)

So the issues you listed @TomUjain, which are all extremely relevant to vehicle husks would not exist.

[TK0104]

@AlienXAXS @Sarah! Something for AGN server to test out??

 

Or make a different server to test it out

[NodSaibot]

39 minutes ago, TK0104 said:

@AlienXAXS @Sarah! Something for AGN server to test out??

 

Or make a different server to test it out

Yeah we do have a test server already setup. I will look at mutator see if I can get it to work

[AlienXAXS]

5 hours ago, TK0104 said:

@AlienXAXS @Sarah! Something for AGN server to test out??

 

Or make a different server to test it out

Yeah I could see how it works.

[AlienXAXS]

On 20/01/2018 at 8:07 AM, TK0104 said:

@AlienXAXS @Sarah! Something for AGN server to test out??

 

Or make a different server to test it out

While not exactly what is asked of here, I am currently testing this right now on the AGN Modded Marathon server - let's see how this does compared to just spawning in husks.

[Eagle XI]

Currently its a bit of an noobtrap, those credits are better spent purchasing more vehicles most of time.

[isupreme]

i really disliked the repairable turret because i did not realize it was taking all my money until way too late.

Maybe i would like it if it was clearer i was spending MY money.

[NodSaibot]

35 minutes ago, isupreme said:

i really disliked the repairable turret because i did not realize it was taking all my money until way too late.

Maybe i would like it if it was clearer i was spending MY money.

How would you phrase it then? And whose money would it be taking? lol

 

Offline: Use repair gun to purchase, needs <font color='#ff0000' size='20'>" $ CreditsNeededToActivate $ "</font> more credits

Current code.

[isupreme]

Like a newb i just never saw the information.    First i noticed was when i saw my creds do a -1 . 

The battle was on, defense was needed and it looked like it could be repaired so i went at it.      But sadly our refinery was down and i lost what little funds i had been building.   My bad.

Sorry i don't have a specific recomendation,  just saying what happened.

 

[NodSaibot]

48 minutes ago, isupreme said:

Like a newb i just never saw the information.    First i noticed was when i saw my creds do a -1 . 

The battle was on, defense was needed and it looked like it could be repaired so i went at it.      But sadly our refinery was down and i lost what little funds i had been building.   My bad.

Sorry i don't have a specific recomendation,  just saying what happened.

 

It pops up pretty clearly in the middle of your screen. I apologize for any confusion.

[DaKuja]

Well at the End the Map Creators can handle it for Static Objects like Turrets over the Kismet. That works pretty smooth with SetActive(true/false)

[Madkill40]

Really wish i could get the GDI Gun Turret working, the GDI texture exists

[NodSaibot]

3 hours ago, DaKuja said:

Well at the End the Map Creators can handle it for Static Objects like Turrets over the Kismet. That works pretty smooth with SetActive(true/false)

Doing it this way would make people have to download maps all over again if we just want to change 1 thing in the mutator. The mutator would have to be downloaded, but it's very small, and can be downloaded using the fast ingame downloader. Maps on the other hand.... they won't download unless you join the server when it's being played. If the map is voted in at the end, you will be kicked out of the server by the game. 

[DaKuja]

5 hours ago, Sarah! said:

Doing it this way would make people have to download maps all over again if we just want to change 1 thing in the mutator. The mutator would have to be downloaded, but it's very small, and can be downloaded using the fast ingame downloader. Maps on the other hand.... they won't download unless you join the server when it's being played. If the map is voted in at the end, you will be kicked out of the server by the game. 

Well these Changes should made before new Maps got released - Already existing Maps can be updated with an new Patch.
Few Maps dosn't even have Turrets so it's possible to handle it.

[NodSaibot]

3 minutes ago, DaKuja said:

Well these Changes should made before new Maps got released - Already existing Maps can be updated with an new Patch.
Few Maps dosn't even have Turrets so it's possible to handle it.

Just seems pretty redundant in my opinion, but that's to the devs to decide I suppose. It creates a lot of unnecessary issues

[isupreme]

Quote

I apologize for any confusion.

No problem.    good conversation.

I guess i have to say i preferred the plan that  allowed me to donate to the turret.    1.   I had to know i was spending money.  2.  anyone could do it anytime anywhere.    I.e.   "hey team donate to the turret!"

Did that plan not work ?

Edited January 30, 2018 by isupreme

[NodSaibot]

2 minutes ago, isupreme said:

No problem.    good conversation.

I guess i have to say i preferred the plan that  allowed me to donate to the turret.    1.   I had to know i was spending money.  2.  anyone could do it anytime anywhere.    I.e.   "hey team donate to the turret!"

Did that plan not work ?

The only conceivable way that would work, I think, would be by using commands... you'd have to click f5 then type something like turret_donate or something. Just seems pretty complex and unnecessary. I think it makes perfect sense to revive the turrets by repairing them.

[Handepsilon]

On 1/18/2018 at 10:56 PM, roweboat said:

One would hope, it would create an anti-gravity effect and the tank would go flying 9,000 feet up into the sky.

 

Not unlike in Coastal_Small, when you put a mammoth tank in the place where the hovercraft respawns. =D

That's only because Hovercraft has physics activated (the one that causes it to be affected by gravity). Spawning static mesh should not pose a problem unless you're using a KActor, which you should not be doing in the first place anyways.