Is allowing One Server to dominate, Good for RenX?

[isupreme]

Is having one server monopolize the game Good for the game?

1.  I play less.    if i have time to play and the only server is full...i go play another game.

2. Diversity is lost.   Diversity is life.   Only one server means only one type of gameplay.   Perhaps if there were more options then more folks would play.

 

On the other hand.....    Having an active server is paramount.    ...

 

YOur thoughts ??

[NodSaibot]

1. Splitting the servers up is basically impossible. People join from seeing others in, there's only a handful of people who will join low player counts.

 

2. Too much diversity with this small player base can be deadly. If a big server decides to make a big change, it is the only server they can play, so it's basically as if the server owners are developers. While initially owners should be allowed to make their servers how they wish, it is not that great of an idea to make too many changes. As you've seen with AGN, we added new crate types and repair pads, however, the repair pads cause a LOT of lag on 45+ players. This is simply due to us still learning how to create mutators and finding the most efficient way of doing things. 

[Madkill40]

Most of us are presently witholding our volatile thoughts of criticism until the lovely big update for Renegade-X is released which we have been promised to be a Winter update from our gracious and godly devs.

Depending on the impact such a release will have will decide whether or not to share similar concerns as yourself, which many of us have already.

We just gotta wait and see.

[Guest Gliven]

Its the players who decide which servers to join. A lot of players, including myself, wont join a server with less than 20 players. We will only ever get diversity in server choice, when we get a lot more players, and players willing to join in smaller player counts.

[djlaptop]

As one of the few U.S. players it would be nice to be able to play with a ping < 200. I KNOW this hampers my gameplay, but there's really no option. I ran a U.S. server for about 6 months and literally had zero people connect during that time other than myself.

[MVN050]

yes! this is a big problem here. Only the Tranny Clan Server is full and all other Servers are empty. Normaly there should be a official Renegade X Server running with a name like "Renegade X official Server" and always this Server should be full... I don't like to play on a clan server if I am not in a Clan! Every week there is a "PUG" Playtime but again on a CT Server and not on a official RenX Server. You can't say that the CT Server are the official RenX Server because RenX is a community and not a clan!

But the next problem is that many of the developer here are CT-members and that is a big problem too here. That means that CT have always a monopoly and always the CT Server have special Server Updates and other things like patches and plugins. I have 2 Servers running and both Servers Crash all the time! I talked with many other peopler and Server owners here all we all have the same problem with our Server. Sometime the Server chrashed 10 times i a week... And if some player play on our Server there will be a mysterious  "kick all player" or a "Server Crash" and all Player join the CT Server. Max60 Players don't work and many other Settings are not working on our Server but only on the CT server...

And in some Logfiles we saw a chat like "After that round we go to CT" and after that round there is a mysterious  "Kick-all-players" or a Server Crash.

The next problem is the Ping Problem here. To the CT Server I have always a Ping of +50ms. To my own Server I have a Ping of ~20ms. 20ms is my normal ping that I have to Google, Facebook, Youtube... If you have a bad Ping to the CT Server... You have 2 options. Join and play on the CT Server or leave the game for ever!

I was thinking about to create a own Launcher with some more functions like Loginsystem, Chatsystem, automatic Map download/upload, automatic Mod download/upload, Clansystem with /join/Leave function and some other things... But there are no information how to get the Serverlist or what is the right startparameter to start the Game and automatic join a Server with your Name? There are no information behind the Patch und Updating system about the Game.  have to options... I can hook me into the Launcher to get the Serverlist or I can leave the Renegade X community with the current situation it is not fun to play the game.

[yosh56]

... Ren[X]  has literally been run by one or two clans after the first few years. 

Old Ren had Jelly/RC and now RC/MPF mostly from what I see. 

RenX had EKT before they died off of every game and became a Mine craft clan. They had TMX right beside them, till TMX dissolved. 

CT isn't even a clan. It was purposely made to not be. It's just the remnants TMX, and then whoever else wants to play together. It just happened to get bigger than expected because @DoctorB0NG went 3 kinds of insane with building a community, and fighting the good fight in the great DDOS blizzard of 2016 (of which is still a problem, just ask BHC, and probably a lot of server owners.) 

Also, all the mutators CT runs, that I know of, are posted publicly, like the player count modifier. 

 

Cant speak anything on ping, as it's 300+ no matter what server for me, sans the Chinese one. 

 

[Cronus]

14 hours ago, djlaptop said:

As one of the few U.S. players it would be nice to be able to play with a ping < 200. I KNOW this hampers my gameplay, but there's really no option. I ran a U.S. server for about 6 months and literally had zero people connect during that time other than myself.

Same, mine was popular when CT Had Bigger DDoS Attacks. and b0ng was busy at his new job and couldnt play whack a mole and I could.

After they stopped, dead server again.

[Agent]

1 hour ago, yosh56 said:

Also, all the mutators CT runs, that I know of, are posted publicly, like the player count modifier. 

The player count modifier mutator is actually banned from the forums, though it'll be irrelevant anyways next patch.

[KrypTheBear]

3 hours ago, MVN050 said:

yes! this is a big problem here. Only the Tranny Clan Server is full and all other Servers are empty. Normaly there should be a official Renegade X Server running with a name like "Renegade X official Server" and always this Server should be full... I don't like to play on a clan server if I am not in a Clan! Every week there is a "PUG" Playtime but again on a CT Server and not on a official RenX Server. You can't say that the CT Server are the official RenX Server because RenX is a community and not a clan!

Well. Like Yosh pointed out, CT isn't a clan either. They're a loose band of proud vagabonds. The PUG isn't hosted by us from RenX, it's literally been hosted by CT since forever. You're still very welcome to join despite you being an utter ass about it.

3 hours ago, MVN050 said:

But the next problem is that many of the developer here are CT-members and that is a big problem too here. That means that CT have always a monopoly and always the CT Server have special Server Updates and other things like patches and plugins. I have 2 Servers running and both Servers Crash all the time! I talked with many other peopler and Server owners here all we all have the same problem with our Server. Sometime the Server chrashed 10 times i a week... And if some player play on our Server there will be a mysterious  "kick all player" or a "Server Crash" and all Player join the CT Server. Max60 Players don't work and many other Settings are not working on our Server but only on the CT server...

I mean eh, officially I'm a moderator, but I'm no longer active on CT. I'm more active elsewhere to be entirely honest. 

What you stated there is complete bullshit. Everyone gets the same fucking patches. How the fuck are you able to play on the CT server if it has a "special update, plugin or patch"?? The difference are MUTATORS. If you want to make a mutator to change your server, feel free to do so instead of complaining about stuff CT has WITH MUTATORS. Big shout-out to @AlienX and @Sarah! for your mutators on AGN. 

The server crashes are most likely related to DoS based attacks. You should check your security.

The 60 player thing is also, guess the fuck what, A MUTATOR. Which we don't even like. Maps get stupidly laggy on 60 players and it kind of kills the way the game was meant to be played.

3 hours ago, MVN050 said:

And in some Logfiles we saw a chat like "After that round we go to CT" and after that round there is a mysterious  "Kick-all-players" or a Server Crash.

Idk, can't control what players say on your server.

There's also no mysterious "kick all players". We literally couldn't care less on what RenX server people are playing, as long as they are. Maybe they just hopped off during map change or got bored??? Idk. Stop blaming us for that.

3 hours ago, MVN050 said:

 The next problem is the Ping Problem here. To the CT Server I have always a Ping of +50ms. To my own Server I have a Ping of ~20ms. 20ms is my normal ping that I have to Google, Facebook, Youtube... If you have a bad Ping to the CT Server... You have 2 options. Join and play on the CT Server or leave the game for ever!

50ms is pretty solid, thinking about poor Yoshi or Shrewd... 

FB, Google, YouTube all have their systems spread out across the globe. Do you really think they're stationed solely in the states or something?? Besides, 50ms. Nani the fuck?!? If you're really bugged by that, idk, get your server running and play with folks and wait for others to connect. That's your third option.

3 hours ago, MVN050 said:

I was thinking about to create a own Launcher with some more functions like Loginsystem, Chatsystem, automatic Map download/upload, automatic Mod download/upload, Clansystem with /join/Leave function and some other things... But there are no information how to get the Serverlist or what is the right startparameter to start the Game and automatic join a Server with your Name? There are no information behind the Patch und Updating system about the Game.  have to options... I can hook me into the Launcher to get the Serverlist or I can leave the Renegade X community with the current situation it is not fun to play the game.

Idk, talk to Agent about that. You have some dreams boyo and you're restricted, just like we are, to what the UDK offers us. And how's not being able to implement your launcher (good luck with launcher based mutators, it's ass-aids) impairing your game experience?? Besides, do you even know the amount of stupid full-stack work all this is??? Making it all secure too? I mean, best of luck buddy. 

Just stop spreading lies. We don't need more unnecessary drama. 

[ShrewdTactician]

I dream of sub 100ms pings... 

As a player in a region that has almost no players, and as a server owner, these "issues" are pretty front and centre for me. 

From what i have realised, is that renx doesnt play well with under 20 people. Because of this, players just try and pool onto one server to reach that player count. Its not the players fault, its just a problem with C&C mode, and is something RenX has the oopertunity to do better then original ren. The answer for spreading the player base across servers, helping build the player base when the europeans arent on, gettings more regions going etc; is to make the sub 20 player experience better.

As a dev, alot of what i do is with that in mind. My bot overhaul is a passion project for me, simply because i see it helping with the sub 20 player count issue. There are 3 other projects that i have been talking about inhouse that i am directly interestend in, mainly because i see them helping with lower player counts. 

While im a dev here, there will atleast be one dev passionatly working on these issues.

[NodSaibot]

I have been with CT since day one, I can tell you, with 100% confidence, that CT does not get any special treatment from the Developers. While the server owners are all developers and the admins are global mods, it doesn't change anything. DoctorB0NG, the actual provider of the server, took a big step out of the RenX community. I don't know what your posts are based off of, but there's no way to tell for sure what is causing your crashes. My server doesn't crash or have any issues from the realm of unknown. 

4 hours ago, MVN050 said:

And in some Logfiles we saw a chat like "After that round we go to CT" and after that round there is a mysterious  "Kick-all-players" or a Server Crash

I would suggest setting up Jupiter Bot and having an IRC channel if you don't already. If you can't distinguish a command from a server crash, you probably shouldn't be hosting a server. 

Quote

[12:23] <&AGNRenX> beer: why are we on a non CT server????

Quote

[16:23] <&AGNRenX> [=SC=] cbRRider: all join to CT

People do this because that's how people are. People are humans of habit, and are scared of different and unknown things. Why do they want to play on CT all the time? Don't ask us. Ask them. 

The DDOS drama is a big reason on why I left RenX for a long time, so don't even try to bring back some random ass shit with no proof of anything.

 

Regards,

Sarah

Edited December 12, 2017 by Sarah!

[OTT]

Yeah,this topic would've been irrelevant if RenX had more players.

Personally I prefer  RenX to have another clan or community and their own server,and have clan(community) wars between them and CT,and if they manage to fill their server for at least twice a week,they would definitely survive and not die quickly.This was possible in beta 4 and before,I don't know if it's possible to do with the amount of players the game has right now,still worth a try.Ofc if there are enough people willing to create this new community.

PUGs are great and may have more quality than clan wars,but IMHO clan/community wars are more intense and beating the other clan sure feels better than beating Ezequiel's or Tony's team,having more clans will keep more of those players that play the game for the first time,then play it a few more times and then quit.At least that's how I felt about EKT/TmX when I first played RenX.

[NodSaibot]

2 hours ago, ObeliskTheTormentor said:

Yeah,this topic would've been irrelevant if RenX had more players.

Personally I prefer  RenX to have another clan or community and their own server,and have clan(community) wars between them and CT,and if they manage to fill their server for at least twice a week,they would definitely survive and not die quickly.This was possible in beta 4 and before,I don't know if it's possible to do with the amount of players the game has right now,still worth a try.Ofc if there are enough people willing to create this new community.

PUGs are great and may have more quality than clan wars,but IMHO clan/community wars are more intense and beating the other clan sure feels better than beating Ezequiel's or Tony's team,having more clans will keep more of those players that play the game for the first time,then play it a few more times and then quit.At least that's how I felt about EKT/TmX when I first played RenX.

Look at my forum signature.

[Radeon3]

11 hours ago, KrypTheBear said:

The 60 player thing is also, guess the fuck what, A MUTATOR. Which we don't even like. Maps get stupidly laggy on 60 players and it kind of kills the way the game was meant to be played.

 

11 hours ago, Agent said:

The player count modifier mutator is actually banned from the forums, though it'll be irrelevant anyways next patch.

It’s good to hear that you understood why the original development team capped the max player count at 40. It wasn’t only about the lag but the tactical aspect of the game. The 60 player limit was a failed idea at the first place, a pity it took a year to realize this.

My most intense/organised/fun matches were in clan wars which usually maxed at 20 people. But you don’t even need highly cooperative players to fully enjoy 10 vs 10 games if teams are somewhat balanced. Some maps like Lakeside or Reservoir obviously needs more, but definetly not more than 40.

[swaffelen]

51 minutes ago, Radeon3 said:

 Some maps like Lakeside or Reservoir obviously needs more, but definetly not more than 40.

At player counts over 40, GDI becomes overpowered because Nod's stealth abilities become almost useless. Lakeside, X-mountain, and Reservoir basically have 2-3 patch/mobius/officer running around hunting for stanks and SBH constantly at high player counts.

[DeadAccount]

i like the 60 person games cause then i get to hang out with all my friends in one place. c:

[Madkill40]

CT kept RenX alive, if it wasn't for CT then the DDoS would have succeeded in killing the game.

The CT server is incredibly stable but it isn't CT at fault for having the popular server, players have their own free will to join any other server and nobody impedes this.

[isupreme]

I thank you all for your input.  For me, i mined out these gems:

From

ShrewdTactician

Quote

As a dev, alot of what i do is with that in mind. My bot overhaul is a passion project for me, simply because i see it helping with the sub 20 player count issue. There are 3 other projects that i have been talking about inhouse that i am directly interestend in, mainly because i see them helping with lower player counts. 

YOu go!

And its always nice to see behind the curtain, thank you.

Sarah!

Quote

As you've seen with AGN, we added new crate types and repair pads, however, the repair pads cause a LOT of lag on 45+ players. This is simply due to us still learning how to create mutators and finding the most efficient way of doing things. 

 

This is a great observation.

Radeon3

Quote

My most intense/organised/fun matches were in clan wars which usually maxed at 20 people. But you don’t even need highly cooperative players to fully enjoy 10 vs 10 games if teams are somewhat balanced.

Just the other day i enjoyed a 5v5 because it was balanced.   Both sides hustled.

 

[vandal33]

60 player-orgy-circus in a single game is a bit too much. Gameplay feels very different.

[Axesor]

There MUST be something done about this to gain more players, and Iam sure that if its done, we can generate like 2x more players if not more. I have the dirrect experience from the game with dying population (for the reasons that are not important to mention here), and I think I can apply my observation from this game on RenX.

Several listed servers with max player count of 80. Population has started to slowly die and now there is 1 full server that everyone tries to join to get the best experience from gameplay. But I must say, if there was only half of ppl playing, the difference in gameplay would be harly noticeable... I can say becouse Iam the one who plays on the servers with even lower player count and I cant complain...

Sure, if there was a big general population of players, the servers would fill up, but there is not, but now the servers need some help.

I think its very important to do something. Waiting lobby, or automatic drag of players from full server to another server after each map. Just help the servers to fill up somehow.

 

Waiting room: (is my personal favorite)

• 2 counts at each server. "waiting players count" and "player in the game count"
• everyone in waiting room can set the required player count to automatically join the server. (30 default, 30 is also max limit)
• required player count = players in the server + players in waiting room
• also there is chat box and list of waiting players

Increasing the max player count of the server will not help. I think 60 limit just screws up the gameplay.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Axesor

[Guest once upon the time]

I have read the last time the complete part here and must say that some states was  fine.

I play very rare after 2 years break of this game and I 'am one who joined low player amount. 

In the past we had a player limit of 40 and this was good. On weekend I saw last time closed to 90 player . That means for me (OK PUG is Organized play, but I think with 40 they can life too ).

So that the other ppl would go to 2 other Server, doesen't matter which one.

A waiting room could be a additionale option too.

Gameplay with 40 is enough. It's my personal opinion.

What Sarah has written is true: It's a ppl choice where they want to play and this could be not changed only if they try