Ways you can help us keep cheaters away

[RypeL]

• When you see a cheater in a game you can open up the console (typically '~' key on english keyboards or use F5) and type "recordDemo". This will start a 2 minute long recording of the match on the server that can provide us important info about the cheater. Everyone playing on the server will have this ability to start this recording but only Admins have the ability to start a recording that lasts for the full match by typing "admin demorec". There can only be one recording on the server at any time. So if someone issues the "recordDemo" command while a recording is already beeing made then the command will have no effect.
  
• Get in touch with the serverowner or an admin and ask them to send us the recording (it will be in the UDKGame\demos folder). The recordings filename consists of the mapname and a timestamp. For example: "CNC-Walls_Flying-2014_03_14-21_08_27.demo". So if you report a cheater to an admin pls give them the name of the map and the time it happened so that they can find the appropriate recording.

The recordings will allow us to watch the game from the cheaters perspective and it will show his IP. This will enable us to:

• analyze the cheat and use the info to implement countermeasures and automated detection for the cheat
  
• put the cheater on our global ban list (IP ban and range IP ban for now but we are also looking into other ways to ban in the future).

Note to serveradmins: The demos use a bit of space so you should check the demos folder from time to time to remove old recordings. If you are really low on harddrive space on your server and cant check the server regularly enough to clean the demo folder you can also disable the client initiated replays by setting 'bDisableDemoRequests=True' in the UDKRenegadeX.ini. But be aware that this opens up opportunities for cheaters to stay undetected on your server.

Also admins and moderates have some more possibilities (besides the recordings) to quickly gather player info. There are commands to display Player ID, IP, SteamID, Team and Name of all connected clients:

• Can be used in-game by logging into admin/moderator then using "AdminClientList".
  
• Can be used remotely by executing "LogClientList".

Pls be aware that we wont put a global ban on someone just because you name us an IP. We need some prove. The best way to prove it to us are the recodings explained above. And as explained they also give us the most info about the cheat, allowing us to invest that knowledge into anti cheat detection.

[omega79]

only mods and admins can start recording a demo on the server, right?

[RypeL]

only mods and admins can start recording a demo on the server, right?

No. Only admins can record a full length demo. But everyone else can record a 2 min length demo. I´ll make that more clear in my post. So its impossible for cheaters to get away without beeing recorded aslong as some of the players playing know of the existence of the "recordDemo" command.

[HaTe]

Sounds great. One quick question though, is there anything in place to stop someone from either doing multiple demo recordings at once or doing one after another constantly, just to flood the server? As you said, they take up a lot of space and so if 15 people are demorecording a player simulatenously, or if someone is demo recording several players, or if someone is demorecording one after another, the chances to flood the server become increasingly high. Especially if the cheater himself decides to send in the command to demorecord every other player in the game, just to flood the server. Just thinking that some people will do whatever it takes to mess with a community, so it'd be best to just limit the demo recordings per player to 1 per every 15 minutes or so if not already done. It also should limit the possible demo recordings per player to 1 at a time (so that if one is already running, another 1 cannot be started on that player).

Edited March 17, 2014 by Guest

[iran]

I'm glad to hear the developers are doing their best to combat cheaters. Keep up the nice work guys.

[iovandrake]

Is it possible for people to flood a server with demos?

[Kil]

Sounds great. One quick question though, is there anything in place to stop someone from either doing multiple demo recordings at once or doing one after another constantly, just to flood the server? As you said, they take up a lot of space and so if 15 people are demorecording a player simulatenously, or if someone is demo recording several players, or if someone is demorecording one after another, the chances to flood the server become increasingly high. Especially if the cheater himself decides to send in the command to demorecord every other player in the game, just to flood the server. Just thinking that some people will do whatever it takes to mess with a community, so it'd be best to just limit the demo recordings per player to 1 per every 15 minutes or so if not already done. It also should limit the possible demo recordings per player to 1 at a time (so that if one is already running, another 1 cannot be started on that player).

Only one demo can be recorded at a time. In order to maximise coverage, there isn't a cooldown between the demos being able to be recorded. But whenever a player does, they are logged for doing so, so an admin can spot anyone trying to abuse the command (besides, it'll take a fair bit of effort and time in order for the constant recording to actually amount to anything near a problem). And if in the case a server has jack for space and admins that aren't around to deal with demos, there is the last resort server option to disable the feature - but they're singling themselves out as a more hacker-lenient zone if they do.

[RypeL]

Sounds great. One quick question though, is there anything in place to stop someone from either doing multiple demo recordings at once or doing one after another constantly, just to flood the server?

There can only be one recording at a time. When a recording is currenlty taking place issuing another recording will have no effect. Every recording records every player and everything that goes on in the game while its recording so you dont need to issue it for a specific player. I edited my post to make that more clear.

*edit: And ya, like Kil posted everyone issuing the recordDemo command will be logged. If someone tries to abuse it to flood the servers harddrive serverowners can ban them for that abuse aswell*

[RoundShades]

This system sounds creative and good. Honestly, this is what SMNC did really. They asked for people to send post-game demo files (which recreate the game as a replay), and post to the forums. Then they issued a steam ID ban, which I understand wouldn't fully work since this game doesn't depend on steam but partially, but maybe the game could generate an ID per install and use that.

IP bans are strong as well though.

[HaTe]

Fair enough, sounds good to me.

The whole "one recording at a time" concept is for regular players though, and an admin's recording is logged separate, correct? Just to make sure the admin's recording takes priority and doesn't have the possibility to be halted by a regular's recording, and the admin's recording would likewise not halt a regular's recording.

[Kil]

No, one recording at a time is just how recording works - the game won't run more than one recording at once.

The client record request will only go ahead if there is not a record already in progress. An admin executing a real record will stop any demo in progress before it begins and creates a new one. No information is lost, the client requested recording just gets cut short and is continued in the admin-initiated record.

[HaTe]

So if for instance, I wanted to briefly turn on a cheat for a couple of minutes, but I am afraid that a demo recording might be on me, I would simply just have to start a new one on a different player and for the next 2 minutes (assuming no other player/admin overrides that demo recording), I'm in the clear from being demo recorded?

I mean, nothing's perfect I guess, but it is a very nice feature to have nonetheless and I appreciate it greatly.

[Kil]

Demo recording isn't player-specific, it's a global server recording so it records everything. Thus the cheater isn't able to abuse the command himself in order to avoid getting recorded.

[disorder]

how about a classic mmo style /report(goes to the admin automatically through email or something) and also /addignore to block out negative influences?

[HaTe]

Demo recording isn't player-specific, it's a global server recording so it records everything. Thus the cheater isn't able to abuse the command himself in order to avoid getting recorded.

Won't that use up more than "a bit" of space then, since every single texture and model is being recorded simultaneously? I had figured it was per player perspective so that the huge amount of space would at least be limited to the FoV of the player. How big are each 2 minute long recordings projected to be?

[lazy5686]

Jelly now has ported our !modrequest command over to our RenX bot.

[Jam]

Demo recordings are very small, you may find out for yourself by going in-game and using the recording commands in an offline skirmish game.

[goztow]

Good stuff. Thanks to the developpers.

[Kil]

Won't that use up more than "a bit" of space then, since every single texture and model is being recorded simultaneously? I had figured it was per player perspective so that the huge amount of space would at least be limited to the FoV of the player. How big are each 2 minute long recordings projected to be?

It's a game demo, not a picture video. It records changes in gamestate, so you are required to use the game (and the correct version of) in order to watch a demo. It works almost the same as how your client knows how to display everything that is happening in a game when playing on a server (you just get little bits of data telling you where things are, your client does all the rendering). This sort of demo feature is in id Tech, Source, and UE, so you should be able to do some research about it if you'd like to know more.

[RokumanZA]

Thanks for the continued work against cheaters , and the demo system sounds solid for finding cheaters and getting the low down on any cheats

[Daedhart]

Awesome idea.

2 questions:

1. Will there be an indication that a record is in progress, either to the entire server or to a person who tries to initiate the recording? Not specifying if a record has been initiated will help against abusing the function and benefit servers that want to disable the function (since the cheaters wouldnt be able to know if a server has the function enabled, acting as a deterrent).

2. Perhaps put in a function that automatically deletes records older than such-and-such (so there wouldnt be any older than, say, a month)?

[omega79]

[...]

2. Perhaps put in a function that automatically deletes records older than such-and-such (so there wouldnt be any older than, say, a month)?

that can be done serverside

root admins should know how to do

but at the moment it is probably better to check it manualy

[Methanoid]

Demo recording isn't player-specific, it's a global server recording so it records everything. Thus the cheater isn't able to abuse the command himself in order to avoid getting recorded.

Won't that use up more than "a bit" of space then, since every single texture and model is being recorded simultaneously? I had figured it was per player perspective so that the huge amount of space would at least be limited to the FoV of the player. How big are each 2 minute long recordings projected to be?

its not a screengrab/animation/avi, UT uses its own recording method to track the games actors/models/etc, then admins/players can play the demo via the game and are able to switch to the POV of any player in 3rd or 1st person.

honestly, server demos are a good solution, i used to hate UT99 clan matches, youd always have both teams fully arrive except 1-2 people who couldnt get in (i wonder why) then after waiting 10-15mins, they magically appear but both/all claim that recording a demo would crash their clients.

this was a major annoyance, hopefully serverside demos will provide a better solution for clan vs clan games as well as public matches.

[SOVEREIGN_]

i used this command in hope to record a cheater, what now? do the server admins have to give you the record? he was so obvious, 100-0 in 5 min, killing all buildings, blocking the vote system by constantly starting votes (as he didnt even show up on the player list because its so shitty, we couldnt vote him anyways)

he was on --[EU]-TheMatrixRen.com BETA 2 -[EU]-- at 22:30 named MrEpiicGoat. i saw that kid not for the first time.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Guest

[goztow]

I did the same, just left this server. I reported it in the players report section.

[Truxa]

NOTE: The following features will only be possible once the patch comes out.

Im posting this in advance in order to especially give serveradmins a bit of time to prepare for what is about to come.

New ways you can help us against cheaters in Version 1.1:

• When you see a cheater in a game you can open up the console (typically '~' key on english keyboards or use F5) and type "recordDemo". This will start a 2 minute long recording of the match on the server that can provide us important info about the cheater. Everyone playing on the server will have this ability to start this recording but only Admins have the ability to start a recording that lasts for the full match by typing "admin demorec". There can only be one recording on the server at any time. So if someone issues the "recordDemo" command while a recording is already beeing made then the command will have no effect.
  
• Get in touch with the serverowner or an admin and ask them to send us the recording (it will be in the UDKGame\demos folder). The recordings filename consists of the mapname and a timestamp. For example: "CNC-Walls_Flying-2014_03_14-21_08_27.demo". So if you report a cheater to an admin pls give them the name of the map and the time it happened so that they can find the appropriate recording.

The recordings will allow us to watch the game from the cheaters perspective and it will show his IP. This will enable us to:

• analyze the cheat and use the info to implement countermeasures and automated detection for the cheat
  
• put the cheater on our global ban list (IP ban and range IP ban for now but we are also looking into other ways to ban in the future).

Note to serveradmins: The demos use a bit of space so you should check the demos folder from time to time to remove old recordings. If you are really low on harddrive space on your server and cant check the server regularly enough to clean the demo folder you can also disable the client initiated replays by setting 'bDisableDemoRequests=True' in the UDKRenegadeX.ini. But be aware that this opens up opportunities for cheaters to stay undetected on your server.

Also admins and moderates will have some more possibilities (besides the recordings) to quickly gather player info. The patch will add a command to display Player ID, IP, SteamID, Team and Name of all connected clients:

• Can be used in-game by logging into admin/moderator then using "AdminClientList".
  
• Can be used remotely by executing "LogClientList".

Though pls be aware that we wont put a global ban on someone just because you name us an IP. We need some prove. The best way to prove it to us are the recodings explained above. And as explained they also give us the most info about the cheat, allowing us to invest that knowledge into anti cheat detection.

Ohhh hell yeah! I like this option! I'll keep that in mind for sure and will let mods know (on TheMatrixRen server) when I finished a recording while I suspect people for abusing bugs like walking "outside the normally playable map" (e.g. Goldrush, saw some Nod dudes doing that passing GDI AGT)

Questions:

-Are the server admins/moderators also able to view the demo created?

-Is this feature intended to "observe" the bug abusers and deal with them?

[RypeL]

Questions:

-Are the server admins/moderators also able to view the demo created?

-Is this feature intended to "observe" the bug abusers and deal with them?

Yes and Yes. That is what i tried to get across with my post.

So far people didnt get us any recording though. If you record something pls help us out and ask the server admin about it yourself like mentioned in my post "Get in touch with the serverowner or an admin and ask them to send us the recording ".

[Truxa]

Questions:

-Are the server admins/moderators also able to view the demo created?

-Is this feature intended to "observe" the bug abusers and deal with them?

Yes and Yes. That is what i tried to get across with my post.

So far people didnt get us any recording though. If you record something pls help us out and ask the server admin about it yourself like mentioned in my post "Get in touch with the serverowner or an admin and ask them to send us the recording ".

Since i know of this feature just now, (couple hours ago) i will as of today (provided i don't crash too often, in that case i usually stop playing out of frustration)

[Truxa]

Ok RypeL.

Today I played on EKT marathon server and busted a player abusing a ref nuke spot. An area you need a timely jump upon the fence in order to reach. Nuke can be disarmed from behind the ref, but spotting it is quite difficult as you would not assume it's at that location.

I asked the EKT admins to send the demo rec to the devs (hopefully you)

It shows how I managed to reach that location where the nuke was placed. I typed it into chat aswel.

Secondly, the same player nuked the powerplant, as the demorec was still running (hopefully) that one should be spotted aswell. Though I'm not sure the powerplant nuke was a glitch (I couldn't see it, but the player bragged about it) hopefully it's caught on tape.

The admins will take a look at the demorec too, so if they deem it unworthy or are unable to see the demorec (as was the case on TheMatrixRen server before) you'd see it or not.

shit glitchers, I hate em ... trying to make excuses for obvious glitches (like tank-surfing)

[Glacious]

Hey Truxa, got your demo if you want a copy of it, can explain to you the basic viewing of it if you like, and will forward onto RypeL once I am home.

[Truxa]

Yeah, I'd like to see whats getting "filmed" for future references.

How big is the file copy? And I'd like some basic explanation.

PM me if you will, seems saver to send details privately.

[DCG909]

I've got a demo from TmX from yesterday with a couple of things that I noticed.

But I guess it's better if I send it trough a PM.

Which dev could I pm?

[HunterX]

renegade-x.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=73904 & renegade-x.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=73902

[HunterX]

Cheater players the banned forever in IP/HDD Serial Number / MAC & ID Install game.

[Jzinsky]

Just out of interest, how are we able to get hold of the server people? Maybe there should be a list somewhere on here

[Skeeze]

Just out of interest, how are we able to get hold of the server people? Maybe there should be a list somewhere on here

Using !modrequest or !requestmod should get a mods attention on most servers

[Handepsilon]

'recordDemo'? I thought that was 'demorec [insert video name here]'

I'm referring to UT3 command, which as far as I know, is applicable in UDK

[RypeL]

Yeah but no. recordDemo is our own modification of it. Since it allows you to start a 2 mins serverside demo from the client. Using "demorec" from your client would create a demo aswell, but a useless broken one since Epic decided to not support "demorec" for clientside demorecording anymore.

[Handepsilon]

Oh... so essentially recordDemo tells server to demorec?

[RypeL]

Yes

[Tarvin]

This seems like an effective way to catch when someone cheats. The topic did remind me of something. When cheating became a problem in Renegade the community responded by developing Renguard to block the scripts or whatever it was that allowed people to cheat. If someone was suspected of cheating a command could be entered to check if the suspected cheater was using RenGuard. If they were then chat would verify. If not, the person the check was done against could be booted from the map or be reported to server mods.

Could something like that be implemented for RenegadeX as well?

[Lostalot]

Cheater players the banned forever in IP/HDD Serial Number / MAC & ID Install game.

IP are perfectly valid for bans (since they are submitted by the user when connecting) but the HDD serial and MAC ID are consider personal property under European law so there might have to be a rather lengthy T&Cs and some form of registration to not fall on the wrong side of the law. Install IDs might be valid but they often use MAC/Serial numbers when being generated to keep them unique...

Steam IDs are fine, since steam took care of all the legalities when you signed up for the service, but then you start excluding non-steam users.

[ghjke]

Lets make this thread live again.

Is there any way of dealing with cheaters on RenX right now?

[Guest Gliven]

just type !mod into general chat, and a moderator will hop on and ask what the problem is. @Fffreak9999 is usually on

[Ryz]

9 minutes ago, Gliven said:

just type !mod into general chat, and a moderator will hop on and ask what the problem is. @Fffreak9999 is usually on

Isn't it !requestmod ?

[Guest Gliven]

both work i believe. i have used !mod before. i could be wrong

[Ryz]

2 hours ago, Gliven said:

both work i believe. i have used !mod before. i could be wrong

Oh, thats new to me. Guess !ffffreak also does the trick since he has IRC alerts...

[Fffreak9999]

!mod is short for !modrequest

!mods is short for !showmods

[ghjke]

22 hours ago, Gliven said:

just type !mod into general chat, and a moderator will hop on and ask what the problem is. @Fffreak9999 is usually on

Well, there is another huge problem. Mods does nothing about it.

There are few people who have unrealistically super high scores (example K=66 D=8, i have screenshoot). I can name all of players who "plays" much better than the others. Or do they? That players I will call flowers in further text.

I cant understand that from about 100 people that play RenX frequently only flowers have that high scores. So... That makes me wonder how is it possible?

When i said to "mods" about how its impossibly to play like that without any help of 3rd party software or something else their answer is "Flowers play this game for long time". And? And what if flowers play for long time? Thats not something that makes you 20 times better than others.

Also, flowers and "mods" are friends and "mods" protect them.

With all that flowers "playing" on super saiyan level all other average player gets tired and frustrated really quick and leave game. Time by time they will stop playing this. Is that what you want? Dead game?

Little more about flowers: they usually play snipers, headshots almost everyone, 1v4 at same time (guess +4 K to flower), unreal score in very short time, flowers same team, separated room on TS...

So, say again,  how do you keep cheaters away?

[Guest Gliven]

OMG dis person has awesome aim. they must be cheating...Just because you THINK someone is cheating...DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE CHEATING. People that whine and cry about cheaters are the worst. They sit in the match and type all game not contributing to their team, and just make the experience toxic for everyone. I ALWAYS start vote kicks for people who complain excessively.

Also harassing other players in and out of game can and will get you muted, preventing you from being able to type in game at all.

20 minutes ago, ghjke said:

Well, there is another huge problem. Mods does nothing about it.

There are few people who have unrealistically super high scores (example K=66 D=8, i have screenshoot). I can name all of players who "plays" much better than the others. Or do they? That players I will call flowers in further text.

I cant understand that from about 100 people that play RenX frequently only flowers have that high scores. So... That makes me wonder how is it possible?

When i said to "mods" about how its impossibly to play like that without any help of 3rd party software or something else their answer is "Flowers play this game for long time". And? And what if flowers play for long time? Thats not something that makes you 20 times better than others.

Also, flowers and "mods" are friends and "mods" protect them.

With all that flowers "playing" on super saiyan level all other average player gets tired and frustrated really quick and leave game. Time by time they will stop playing this. Is that what you want? Dead game?

Little more about flowers: they usually play snipers, headshots almost everyone, 1v4 at same time (guess +4 K to flower), unreal score in very short time, flowers same team, separated room on TS...

So, say again,  how do you keep cheaters away?

How many times does a moderator have to investigate an individual before you will believe them? I have a pretty good idea of the individuals you think are cheating. And they have been looked into in the past and proven to not be cheating. Do you think that you are the first person to find these "cheaters" and cry to the mods about them.

Do you as an individual really think there is a conspiracy that the Ren-x moderators are protecting these "cheaters". Grow up. There are people out there that are THAT good. Ever heard of e-Sports? just because you ran into someone who is better than you, doesnt mean they are cheating. All your whining and complaining wont change that fact.

I will ask you this question @ghjke Do you think scaring away skilled players by calling them cheaters and getting them banned is a good way to run a community? Do you think banning anyone who is skilled with a sniper rifle is going to "save this dead game"