Ren X is official ruined!

[Algol]

Big thx to cunts like:

poi, water, boxes and other op hardware noobs.

Also thx to developers who dont gives a fuck about a balanced game

[Madkill40]

You can't balance a game by banning players from playing it...

[NodSaibot]

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Sarah!

[Ryz]

20 minutes ago, Algol said:

Big thx to cunts like:

poi, water, boxes and other op hardware noobs.

Also thx to developers who dont gives a fuck about a balanced game

Well... I know you are just angry and probably won't react, but maybe if you want things to become different you should put some effort in your post. Guess it's about snipers and guess it won't change much or maybe not even anything. But you can at least try....

[Schmitzenbergh]

Well, before you go full "LEEEEROOOOOY JENKINS" onto the whole community, you could try to be a bit more constructive. When you start a topic like this, do you really think we're going to take you serious? (The memes here are a reflection of that)

Maybe start explaining what you mean in normal semi-polite (We are on the internet after all) sentences. I'm quite curious about the "hardware-noob" thingy.

For now I can only say this to your constructive feedback:

Spoiler

 

[Luhrian]

Well, Snipers are not easy to balance.

I think we should look at other games, how they have done it.

Will make a longer post about that tomorrow.

[Redarmy]

@Schmitzenbergh By hardware noobs I think he means we need to ban anyone using a graphics card newer than the  GeForce4 Ti 4600 and an Intel Pentium 4 CPU. If they were good enough for C&C Renegade, they're good enough for RenX. Anything that performs better than those is using hardware to cheat by helping to create a smoother in game experience.

[Calvin]

49 minutes ago, Luhrian said:

Well, Snipers are not easy to balance.

I think we should look at other games, how they have done it.

Will make a longer post about that tomorrow.

He is not talking about us sniping but doza and lcg's 

Nice topic btw 

Edited September 19, 2017 by poi

[kenz3001]

right i need to read this carefully

 

1 hour ago, Algol said:

Big thx to cunts like:

poi, water, boxes and other op hardware noobs.

Also thx to developers who dont gives a fuck about a balanced game

 

first off: thats not a nice word to use when indeed you are the "n00b"

second: OP hardware i didnt know players were using quantum computers or deep learning server racks to play renx (might explain why the "n00bs" as you call them are so good)

as for us Developers we cant balance for cunts or cocks they both do the same thing in different ways some are bigger / smaller, wider / tighter then others... some are just very incompatible ... some fit together too well and make much friction. some think they are the best but then see some one who is better and then bitch on forums making them look even more feeble and impotent ... shit my bad i was ment to be on about balance not whinny people and... wait was i really on about the bonding of parts ... well i could go on all day but as you have seen this topic is just turned into a good source of a laugh ahhh fuck it might as well waste every ones time just like you have .... i too am pissed off that the friction of a good hard (ummm not the place for that) ahh it might be as this topic will get shut down in about 10 mins

ramble ramble ramble

and you are right i dont give a fuck about balance any more as the game is about there on balance

 

i should say i dont like the word "N00b" its vile and vulgar or was that another word ?...

 

well nice post hope to see your posts on other games like cod, battlefield, csgo, destiny and all them other shooter games that happen to have the exact same problem (or the problem just might be your attitude)

[Sn4ke]

I play with 30 FPS. so what....

[Henk]

Not that I gives a fuck but what do you think is unbalanced?

[NodSaibot]

2 hours ago, Luhrian said:

Well, Snipers are not easy to balance.

I think we should look at other games, how they have done it.

Will make a longer post about that tomorrow.

And unscoped hipfire radius isnt enough?

[Sn4ke]

30 minutes ago, Sarah! said:

And unscoped hipfire radius isnt enough?

the spread is not relevant in close combat + you can simply press both mouse buttons together

[Redarmy]

I think the spread actually helps people who aren't good at aiming. Though people who aren't good at aiming shouldn't be sniping anyways.

[NodSaibot]

1 hour ago, DarkSn4ke said:

the spread is not relevant in close combat + you can simply press both mouse buttons together

Then don't get close. I am about to upload a video that shows exactly what you're talking about

[swaffelen]

Algol just relax. It's just a game. 

[[B]Veyron]

it's easy to get sucked into a game you really enjoy only to get frustrated with the one aspect you enjoy most.  online play.  Find other things to do buddy online gameplay is just one part do some exploring ya fuck

[vandal33]

Knowing Algol's behavior in game, not surprised he would make a topic like this.

There are cunts in this game that needs to be addressed, but you could at least make your complain in a normal constructive manner instead of like a screaming teenager.

[NodSaibot]

59 minutes ago, vandal33 said:

Knowing Algol's behavior in game, not surprised he would make a topic like this.

There are cunts in this game that needs to be addressed, but you could at least make your complain in a normal constructive manner instead of like a screaming teenager.

I hope by cunts, you are referring to toxic players.

[Madkill40]

People in this thread.

Talkin' 'bout a good spread.

Its not the spread in the bed that gets me fed but this thread just got gone'd to bed.

 

/thread.

[Hackerham]

I too hate snipers when im not hitting the lucky strike with my ramjet. But they are managable and prone to ambushes.

And yeah, balance of good snipers is right thing.

[Luhrian]

The special thing about Renegade X is, that you have a huge health by low damage. Compared to other shooters you survive much more.

This fact make a one hit charakter even stronger, because it doesn't matter how much healt you have, if you are just one hit. You'll maybe say, that some characters can survive 1 shot. That is right but it doesn't really matter a guy like @poi can hit a second one without a problem.

The second interesting thing is that the Players are smallers. So it is more difficultly to hit anyone, but the other thing is, that people with good aim and tracking are better. That is in every game like this, but for the other player with bad aim it is through these small characters almost impossible to get a good hit.

So how can we fix this?

Make the charcaters bigger, isn't a good idea (if that is possible). It would mess up the whole game, you need to make tunnels, buildings and bunkers bigger, otherwise they can't walk in it. It would take months to do that.

Nerf the damage. If you don't think much about it, it sounds like a good idea, but it isn't one. Imagine, you got a headshot on a character and he does not die. That would be very frustating and would make a sniper usless, because he can't get important kills. But maybe keep that in mind, I think a little damage reduce isn't a bad idea.

Now look on these 3 1k charcaters. The special thing is, that they are all like infantry tanks. Infantry tanks with a one hit weapon. I really don't know how the guys from C&C Renegade included this thing, that is fucking stupid, but ok. Think about an  amor reduction. But that isn't that easy, to create a good balance there. I think, the main idea about the use from Sydnes and Raveshaws was Anti-Tank. So you need to watch out, that you don't reduce the amor too much, otherwise the tanks will kill you and you are not really an Anti-Tank unit. About Snipers: Give them so much amor is, as I said, a fucking bad idea. Snipers are people, who stay in the backline and not in the main fight. So there is no reason, for giving them so much amor. An important thing in balancing is, that if you have a pretty strong character, you need also a character to counter it. And how can you counter a very good sniper, if you aren't a good sniper? You need to get close to him. The problem in RenX is:

1. They have so much health
2. They can use their long range weapon also in close range
3. They have a strong MG for close range too
4. Nobody exactly know, where the sniper is

So I'll just say you, what I would do:

1. Reduce amor
2. Give them a higher spread. Look at for example on Warface.
3. Give them a silenced pistol (or maybe Deadeye get a silenced, Havoc a heavy)
4. make their shots more noticeable

With the last point I mean, louder sounds and more visible shots. Look at Widowmaker in Overwatch. And who isn't playing Overwtach a little explanation what I mean. If a sniper is shooting in Overwatch, it is shooting a normal shot, but it looks like a fucking ion canon beam. So after the first shot, everyone will know, where you can find this sniper, and that is the first important step if you want to get rid of him.

I think I said all what I wanted to say.

But I can understand @Algol a bit. When I'm getting killed by @poi again and again in base, I'm really tilted and I could wirte things like this, too. But if you want to make a game more balanced, you can't win with screaming and insults, because nobody will listen to you.

 

[Redarmy]

I think it's kind of ridiculous that 1k snipers get carbines to begin with. Give them the fucking silenced machine pistol or a regular silenced pistol. Snipers having a silenced secondary actually makes sense as to not give away their local area anyways. If any 1k should have a Carbine it should be the 1k anti-tanks, but I don't even agree with that really.

 

Also, #MakeLCGsSurviveRamjetHeadshots

[Madkill40]

Deadeye's and BHS should have a thin, white bullet trail. (Like the sniper rifles in DeltaForce)

[Axesor]

I think that the devs took all the necessary steps to push the sniper characters (classical sniper + ramjet) to the state where they always supposed to be. Now its time to remove the headshot multiplied from the ion gun. As I always suggested.

Issue of the high ttk combined with 1 shot weapon aspect could be fixed the way of removing the headshot multiplier entirely from the game, and calculate the damage of each weapon based on DPS/TTK. It would definitely fill the gap between hardcore players and players that cant aim so good (including me). Playing would feel more fair, and also would be much easier to ballance. Btw, looong time ago Ive made a mutator that provides exactly that, so everybody could test out how it feels. Its outdated now and wouldnt work tho.

Anyway, I think that the devs will come out with another solution.. or not, as I dont find it as such a big issue and I can live with it (also considering that my suggestion is a bit too controversal and radical to be ever officially introduced).

[NodSaibot]

I still don't know why you guys think snipers need more balancing

[roweboat]

Algol just go hide in a tank.

 

...That's what I do.

[NodSaibot]

21 hours ago, Sarah! said:

Then don't get close. I am about to upload a video that shows exactly what you're talking about

Finally got around to it

Edited September 20, 2017 by Sarah!

[Calvin]

5 hours ago, Luhrian said:

And how can you counter a very good sniper, if you aren't a good sniper? You need to get close to him. The problem in RenX is:

1. They have so much health
2. They can use their long range weapon also in close range
3. They have a strong MG for close range too
4. Nobody exactly know, where the sniper is

Since i am the one using sniper and apparently doing good with it im gonna say what i think about your options:

1. They die pretty much always when spotted by a tank or sbh - Patch since they're now 100% luck based in close range since they already have insane spread

2. People never switch to carbine instantly and when they do they're usually dead by the time they can actually fire

3. I dont think the MG is that strong since it's pretty hard to get kills with it at times

4. Did you know that when you die your deadcam goes to the direction you been hit from - and it's pretty easy to spot one when you pay attention ( but yeah they do need to make the bullets more visible ) 

This topic was made by @Algol a guy that bitches and complain even when im tanking?! and idk why a sniper nerf is even relevant to this topic.. i mean he is complaining about hardware lul

[ex_member]

Raveshaw and Sidney are still a problem - run and headshot.
I agree that we should consider how to nerf this.

Regarding snipers (Deadeye/BHS and Havoc/Sakura), imao they are currently well balanced.
They have the advantage of 1 shot kill and the range.
The range advantage should be countered by another sniper  !!!

Not to mention that the range is not useful on some maps, as there are no good positions where you can use range as an advantage - the map is just too small.

In close range battles, if a sniper misses, a decent player with almost any unit, will take him down.

If you think it is easy to be deadly as boxes, poi, water, nick... then try to play a sniper.
You will notice -  IT IS EVERYTHING BUT NOT EASY !
You will probably experience to be killed very fast in close range battles by almost any unit.

It may look easy when they do it, but that is a skill !

There is no problem about snipers, health or carbine, the problem here and in posts like this is about a skill.
And the majority here is talking about creating DISADVANTAGES to NERF skillful players !
This is at least unfair if not arrogant !

The best way would be to ask developers to code something like this: when boxes, poi, water, nick... join, they are allowed to play only engineers.
 

[Sn4ke]

18 minutes ago, dr.schrott said:

The best way would be to ask developers to code something like this: when boxes, poi, water, nick... join, they are allowed to play only engineers.

boxes as an engineer?

Nod just wanted to believe that he's friendly

[ex_member]

8 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

boxes as an engineer?

Nod just wanted to believe that he's friendly

Yeah, you are right. Boxes is allowed to play SILO, nothing else!

[NodSaibot]

1 hour ago, dr.schrott said:

Yeah, you are right. Boxes is allowed to play SILO, nothing else!

Does he get vet points?

[Henk]

Hands off my PIC/Railgun   Rate of fire is slow as hell, range is short, and when you switch weapons it takes forever before you can shoot again most of the time.

 

Ramjet projectile/beam could be bigger I agree. Also very easy to do..

[NodSaibot]

1 hour ago, Henk said:

Hands off my PIC/Railgun   Rate of fire is slow as hell, range is short, and when you switch weapons it takes forever before you can shoot again most of the time.

 

Ramjet projectile/beam could be bigger I agree. Also very easy to do..

If a blue laser from ramjet is not enough, then maybe they should get glasses instead.

It's not very hard to find the person that killed you when you die from a ramjet. Also its easy to find them if they miss you

 

Also, people keep saying snipers arent balanced, im not good at aiming, but look how many times it takes for me to get a noscope

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Sarah!

[Water]

Snipers don't need nerfing
Git gud

 

first forum post btw

Edited September 21, 2017 by Water

[NodSaibot]

45 minutes ago, Water said:

Snipers don't need nerfing
Git gud

 

first forum post btw

[vandal33]

1. I agree with Deadeye/SBH/Havoc/Sakura should get a normal pistol or the silenced one.

2. l agree that health is too high and weapon damage isn't that good, it makes one-hit kill weapon superior if you have good aiming (been like this since C&C Renegade,  even the shotgun troopers from that game are deadly against 1ks).

3. Algol, stop complaining!

[[B]Veyron]

7 hours ago, DarkSn4ke said:

boxes as an engineer?

Nod just wanted to believe that he's friendly

anyone would've hovered their reticule over the spy eng.  on the plus side he's an eng, low player count, types of players online atm  somewhat not all that great.  gamer skill what have ya.. 

[Madkill40]

4 hours ago, vandal33 said:

1. I agree with Deadeye/SBH/Havoc/Sakura should get a normal pistol or the silenced one.

 

The sidearm they currently have is less accurate and you want to give them a more accurate sidearm? 

Goodluck...

On the note of Raveshaws/Sydneys, do they have headshot multiplier? Or hitscan on head? (I still dunno what hitscan is) Just remove multipliers against infantry for Sydney's and Raveshaws, maybe they do extra damage to other anti-tank infantry as a sidebuff? They'll still pack a punch but won't instakill many infantry types. (Unless they're shooting at a Gunner/LCG or Rocket Soldier)

Edited September 21, 2017 by Madkill40

[Henk]

@Madkill40 Hitscan is insta-hit, no bullet travel time.

0 headhsot multiplier on a gun doesn't make sense imo.

[Henk]

11 hours ago, Sarah! said:

If a blue laser from ramjet is not enough, then maybe they should get glasses instead.

It's not very hard to find the person that killed you when you die from a ramjet. Also its easy to find them if they miss you

Yes if you're the one to get killed yourself usually know where the sniper is (and you'd have to hope he's still there so you could take revenge), but when someone drops dead behind or next to you, you're usually too late to have seen the blue beam. It could be a bit bigger and disappear slightly later in my opinion.

I can usually guess where the snipers are when I hear the bullets zoom by, but for new players who don't know the maps that well it's different. Balancing isn't just damage/armour/rof/speed values, I think a slightly better visible ramjet beam will help.

[Madkill40]

3 hours ago, Henk said:

@Madkill40 Hitscan is insta-hit, no bullet travel time.

0 headhsot multiplier on a gun doesn't make sense imo.

Upon further thought you are right, 0 headshot multiplier doesn't make sense. But...

Miniature-Obelisk (Railgun) and Micro-Ion Cannon (Personal Ion Cannon) are handheld energy-based weaponry which are primarily designed to decimate through armoured vehicles/structures because the atomic make-up of non-biological entities are much simpler compared to that of human skin/flesh/bone. Now think about the size of the Railgun for the moment, the Obelisk is pretty big but cannot destroy a whole Medium tank with one shot and the Obelisk also has to charge its attack for about 5 seconds as well. Now with the Personal-IC the actual Ion Cannon has to be powered by the sun (unlimited energy source) and charge up for a certain amount of time and only then can it destroy an entire anything but having an unlimited energy source kinda helps with that. So the Personal-IC and Railgun, on the energy-basis and because of their handheld size both weapons would at best cause 2nd degree burns to skin/flesh with no armour? Potentially cause materials to corrode/melt/alight? But certainly not be able to actually instakill infantry just because the player was fortunate enough to score a headshot, as it is an energy based weapon the headshot multiplier should be much weaker than the same-tier counterpart. (Ramjet) A x3 headshot multiplier maybe, but no higher than that! They should decimate infantry armour by all means, but all energy-based weapons should struggle to affect infantry health. (Laser Rifle being an exception)

Suggested changes to Railgun/Personal-IC:

Suggested changes for Railgun/Personal-IC:
Headshot Multiplier x5.0 -to- x3.0
Kevlar Multiplier x0.95 -to- x0.85
Flak Multiplier x0.95 -to- x1.1
Lazarous Multiplier x0.95 -to- x1.1
Heavy Vehicle Multiplier x0.428 -to- x0.528
Light Vehicle Multiplier x0.5 -to- x0.6

Also, just to point out that both these weapons fire energy, super-charged light, ions disrupting the make-up of what they touch causing them to degrade/breakdown so neither of these weapons should really be blasting bodies really far away upon contact of kill. Don't let the sound and visual fool you, it hits you instantly because its a beam of sodding light.  I'd also like to suggest that the 'Lazarous' (Stealth armour) be affected more by energy weapons, ions meeting ions and a negative reaction etc.

LCGs and SBH are also in the same boat regarding damage to infantry; however as the SBH is meant to be an assassin'type you could argue their weapon (hence the burst fire) is a more concentrated beam specifically tailored to piercing beneath the flesh of infantry therefore causing more internal damage, which differs from all other energy-based weaponry available, which means the Lazer Rifle should probably do slightly less damage to vehicles.

Suggested changes to Lazer Rifle:

Lazer Rifle:
Kevlar Multiplier x1.0 -to- x1.45
Flak Multiplier x1.0 -to- x1.25
Lazarus Multiplier x1.0 -to- x1.15
Heavy Vehicle Multiplier x0.35 -to- x0.25
Light Vehicle Multiplier x0.52 -to- x0.42
Aerial Vehicle Multiplier x0.55 -to- x0.45

LCGs have a high damage per-second which would cause simpler compounds such as metal more damage as the weapon already does, however on skin and flesh it'd be like someone flicking boiling deep-fry oil (About 200 degress Celcius) onto you, tiny droplets which sting but obviously the more droplets flicked which hit you the more the skin and flesh suffers and the first degree burns are eventually worsened and become fatal.

Suggested change to LCG:
Headshot Multiplier x2 -to- x1.5

 

I am now questioning SBH/LCG unlimited ammunition, they just have an unlimited energy source somewhere on their person? Some pocket-star? Maybe the LCGs can be unlimited since they're a heavy unit? Maybe reduce them to 1600 rounds instead? SBH should have an above-average but certainly not an unlimited amount of rounds? Give the SBH a grenade-esk ability to leech energy off vehicles to resupply their ammunition? It could just look like an EMP Grenade but with a Red emitter. This does not affect the vehicle but does make enemies aware there is an SBH in the area. 

Mobius not included because his weapon is electricity and that is as dangerous to humans as tiberium.

[Axesor]

Are we.. are we really discussing the sence and logic of the game right now? Are we rly doing that?

Its not about making sence, its about establishing the balance. There must be a significant difference between sniper rifles and ion guns, and the range is not an arguable difference.

Sniper rifles:

• strong againts: infantry (possible one shot kill), light armor (partly) 
• spread while hip fire
• very long range

Ion guns:

• strong againts: infantry (possible one shot kill), light armor, heavy armor, buildings
• no spread
• mid-long range

The possibility of one shot kills of Ion guns needs to be removed by setting 0 head-shot multiplier to make ballance and significant difference between snipers and ions. Ion guns shouldnt be todays replacement for patched sniper rifles, and their antiinfantry power needs to be nerfed. There is no doubt about that!

 

[Henk]

The point of headshot multipliers is that you get rewarded for your skill, a small head is a more difficult target than a torso/waist, and trying to aim for the head is a risk to take (higher chance of missing).

[NodSaibot]

8 hours ago, Henk said:

Yes if you're the one to get killed yourself usually know where the sniper is (and you'd have to hope he's still there so you could take revenge), but when someone drops dead behind or next to you, you're usually too late to have seen the blue beam. It could be a bit bigger and disappear slightly later in my opinion.

I can usually guess where the snipers are when I hear the bullets zoom by, but for new players who don't know the maps that well it's different. Balancing isn't just damage/armour/rof/speed values, I think a slightly better visible ramjet beam will help.

Well hopefully you can't see behind your head, even in 3P it doesn't show that much behind you

Edited September 21, 2017 by Sarah!

[Madkill40]

3 hours ago, Axesor said:

Are we.. are we really discussing the sence and logic of the game right now? Are we rly doing that?

Its not about making sence, its about establishing the balance. There must be a significant difference between sniper rifles and ion guns, and the range is not an arguable difference.

"Its not about making sence, its about establishing the balance."

Sorry for establishing balance by forming an informed and logical reason for why the Railgun/Personal-Ion-Cannon should only have a headshot multiplier of x3 instead of the current x5? Ya D!ck.

Quote

Sniper rifles:

• strong againts: infantry (possible one shot kill), light armor (partly) 
• spread while hip fire
• very long range

Sniper are already this.

Quote

Ion guns: (AND RAILGUNS)

• strong againts: infantry (possible one shot kill), light armor, heavy armor, buildings
• no spread
• mid-long range

The possibility of one shot kills of Ion guns AND RAILGUNS needs to be removed by setting 0 head-shot multiplier to make ballance and significant difference between snipers and ions. Ion guns shouldnt be todays replacement for patched sniper rifles, and their antiinfantry power needs to be nerfed. There is no doubt about that!

x3 headshot multiplier is 400-600 points of damage (Health & Armour), this would still kill quite a few types of infantry should they be twatted in the face with a beam of concentrated light, other suggested modifications for multipliers are based on the theory of how ions and lights-as-weaponry would affect different infantry types, e.g. Rave/Syd damage other Flak-Armour infantry more than they would Kevlar infantry i.e. Gunner will nearly die or die but a Patch will just be badly hurt. It is agreeable that their weapons shouldn't be able to instakill all infantry. But as it is a top-tier unit there should be some leeway because... 

Quote

The point of headshot multipliers is that you get rewarded for your skill, a small head is a more difficult target than a torso/waist, and trying to aim for the head is a risk to take (higher chance of missing).

Headshot multiplier of x3 on a weapon which deals 200 base damage is still going to reward you with a kill for most infantry, but it should not be all infantry because headshotting a tier-2 or above shouldn't be an instakill for if you give any player the ability to instakill any other players despite what tier they are this, as Axesor said are just a replacement for the patched sniper. Even with an infantry unit specifically designed to do the most damage to vehicles? Snipers got hip-fire spread to stop this bullshit, Raveshaw/Sydney needs a nerf to their headshot multiplier.

By all means reward players but not with a 200bd x5 for a headshot, that is insanely imbalanced. Maybe reduce their headshot multiplier to x2.5, but it should definitely be capped at x3. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Madkill40
QuotationFckUp

[Axesor]

Id say that ion gun is already rewarding enough for providing high damage to any infantry and so it dont need any further reward for headshots, espetialy with its 100% accuracy while hip fire. Keep it anti vehicle, and leave 1 shot kills to the snipers only that are the only class that should be capable of that, becouse they are pure antinfantry class. Snipers are able to 1shot but in exchange for its high spread while hipfiring as it always should be. If you wanna keep ion gun hs multiplier, you gotta add same hipfire spread as snipers got to make it fair, otherwise just set it to 1 - this would make a sence.

Quote

Snipers are already this.

@Madkill40 Yes, I have summarised the current state to make a point

Edited September 21, 2017 by Axesor

[yosh56]

Quote

Everything regarding infantry damage multipliers specifically. 

No.

[NodSaibot]

So I think that some of you are forgetting that these characters cost 1 thousand credits. While that doesn't entitle them to god-status, they should be stronger than other characters. I think the dynamic of ramjet, pic/rail and tib/volt each have their roles. Anti inf, anti-tank/inf and anti everything are all fine.

 

They all have their own different armors, sidearms, explosives and range/reload differences. I don't know why anything needs to change