Pick Up Games (PUGs)

[SMayhew]

Meh, a bit of an average PUG. I was only in the first three matches before I had to go. Last week's PUG set a high standard.

Our team's communication was a bit of a clusterfuck in the first two matches. GrassyKnoll we lost the Ref due to no one noticing the mines going down, and even after we lost it no one sorted the mines out for another five mins. Goldrush was really bad, people came up with plans but we didn't do anything, eventually we got overwhelmed. Too much dithering and people talking over each other, GDI did really well however.

Complex was better from us, a really close game and we defended/worked together well. A lot of Nod rushes, I was really surprised the Barracks didn't go down!

So yeah a bit mixed. Hopefully next time the team chat is a bit more clearer and we're more decisive.

[Ryz]

I think only the last game 'our' team started to work together. The first 3 rounds there was almost no teamwork. GrassyKnoll was a sad loss, cause we decided to defend the turret at all costs in order to not be overrun by SBH's. As soon as the FIRST attack happened the turret went down without anyone taking care of it, while this was 'our main' plan.

Goldrush: no clue what happened here, we didn't organize any attack. I know that at one point we 'organized' a flamerush and as soon as we left, I watched behind me and I was alone. Most of us didn't know the map since the changes and we were afraid Bananas would use his knowledge of the map to change the outcome, which he did. Also we agreed to have someone guarding the bridge at all times, but nobody did.

Tomb: me and Freak(not sure, but I guess?) Managed to get to the ref early in the game and damaged it a bit, but not enough. Later Tony and I went with stanks from the back of the base to theirs, only to see a big group of meds leaving GDI's base. We spotted them before they were even close to our base, again nobody responded till they were inside our base and killing it. This game was the worst, cause every time someone called for help people tended to ignore it above anything else....

Complex: we won by points, but also by getting lucky a bit. AFK's all game, a player down in numbers, someone Ioning the strip but not being on TS and not responding... Other players not on TS. A few moments where people asked for help cause they were damaging a building (Kenz and Machette had meds at the ref) and nobody responded... We had so many chances, but managed to get one planned rush (with mammies) going at the end of the game. This was the only time I'dd see more than 5 people working together. But during the rush the first mammy decided to drive backwards, so we lost all mammies cause they got r*ped by arties...

Canyon: finally some good teamwork, maybe also cause some people left...? Orders:"If you spawn here (ref) you defend the tunnels. If you start at the bar / wf you go for their harv + silo." People listened and, surprise, coordination works... Later on the plan was meds + repairs which also everybody did. Really the first time it felt like we were playing a PUG instead of a pub. Meds got repaired well, someone brought a beacon in and the person got cover well, than the beacon received the same coverage and in minutes they lost. The early APC rush also helped ofc!

Edited March 6, 2016 by Guest

[testman]

and in minutes we lost.

I'm pretty sure we won that round.

Also the function-by-spawn (your role depending on which building you appear inside) has been good practice and almost standard for many PUGs now.

If people don't listen or are incapable of reasoning, that's different issue.

Thing with communication is that we have single channel, so it's very important for all participants to provide information as efficiently as possible. Talking over each other is something I find annoying as fuck.

Also I would permaban anyone who AFKs during PUG for more than a minute.

[Ryz]

Sorry 'we lost' had to be they lost, changed that now...

[Quinc3y]

Rypel is right. On Goldrush, I took the tunnel to the obelisk and killed the engineers with a sydney. Got a few shots on the mct too.

Ah, my mistake then. !rec nanas

I think only the last game 'our' team started to work together.

When the enemy team has no credits since the beginning of the game, it's much easier for your plans to work. We had no money to defend from rushes, so that's why maybe you have the feeling that it was the only game where you had good teamwork. The other maps we just countered your attempts well.

Goldrush: we agreed to have someone guarding the bridge at all times, but nobody did.

I believe there was an officer camping there. At least I met him the 2-3 times I tried to sneak in in the beginning.

[Ryz]

When the enemy team has no credits since the beginning of the game, it's much easier for your plans to work. We had no money to defend from rushes, so that's why maybe you have the feeling that it was the only game where you had good teamwork. The other maps we just countered your attempts well.

I understand your point, but this wasn't the case. Even if these attacks would have failed it would have felt more like teamwork, cause there was actually a plan and everybody sticked to it. How many coordinated rushes did our enemy do? Dozens... How many times did we move in with more than 4 of the same units / vehicles? I think we can count the attacks which involved more than 5 people on one hand and that's a bit ashame...

[SMayhew]

Goldrush: we agreed to have someone guarding the bridge at all times, but nobody did.

I believe there was an officer camping there. At least I met him the 2-3 times I tried to sneak in in the beginning.

Yeah that was me, I was there all match pretty much!

No idea where 'nobody did' has come from, considering I called out the few infantry rushes that occurred.

[kenz3001]

i just reviewed alot of my vids ... and found that the team with ryz on usaly looses ! i wonder why that is ?

it cant be that ryz is on the team its that every one else is on ryz's team ?

[Ryz]

No idea where 'nobody did' has come from, considering I called out the few infantry rushes that occurred.

Ok, maybe I am mistaken about this. It's just the overall feeling that we had no control of what happened until the last round, not blaming anyone ofc.

i just reviewed alot of my vids ... and found that the team with ryz on usaly looses ! i wonder why that is ?

it cant be that ryz is on the team its that every one else is on ryz's team ?

I don't get what you are trying to say here Kenz.. First of all it isn't 'my' team, second: I didn't play a PUG for a month, third: it almost always works better if someone takes the lead with the team. I got the idea that a team with B0NG in it usually wins a lot more cause they follow his lead, but can't proof this cause I don't have any data. But I noticed the same behavious once Yosh called out a plan, which everybody sticked too, on the last map.

As said a million times: I don't care what my role is in the PUG. I once mined / defend the whole PUG for the teams sake, but I care if the PUG feels just as random as a normal pub where it's total chaos...

And yeah, I got the feeling that I lose more often than win, no matter if it's in a PUB or PUG. Maybe statistics also prove this? Ah they do:

Edited March 6, 2016 by Guest

[kenz3001]

even when some one takes the lead you alwaysd second guess them and try and split rushes up ... you just need to shut up and do what ya told unless you are the leader !

i never said you are a bad player ya just a bad team mate

[RoundShades]

There are a few players that try to divide up rushes. I do this. I usually do this for good reason (c4 something while something is slammed to draw defense/repair). There is no such thing as a bad team or bad teammate. There are shotty balanced players sometimes. Even if it's a fluke case where too many snipers get piled onto one team and too many infiltrators on one, perhaps remixing half way through should be considered when it gets like that.

[Ryz]

you just need to shut up and do what ya told unless you are the leader

Ok: small problem... Since a month or so there is no teamleader anymore... Which I would really love to see back so we know who to follow....

[Guest Gliven]

My mic kinda bummed out on me before the session last night. I got it working, so hopefully i can communicate better next time.

If you guys are worried about bad teamwork, maybe we should designate commanders for each team, which plans out the overall strategy, and they pick captains each round. so 1 commander, 2-4 captains each team. Each captain controls an idividual squad.

for example, the commander tells the tank captain to control the field. The tank captain, makes sure all their squad members either have a vehicle or are engies/hotties/techs for reps, while the other captain makes sure to support tank captain, or to take the tunnels/side paths.

food for thought. Or maybe too extreme for just a pick up game?

[Ryz]

food for thought. Or maybe too extreme for just a pick up game?

I would encourage this, but I know the majority doesn't want it to be too organized according to an old threat about this subject earlier this year / end of this year...

[yosh56]

We all know the reason was me not drinking earlier =p By the time Canyon rolled around I was entirely too loud and black for ANYONE to ignore what I was saying. Take note... everything I said happened.

[Glacious]

*Looks at ones Self* You know the real reason you won Canyon <------------------

[Ryz]

We all know the reason was me not drinking earlier =p By the time Canyon rolled around I was entirely too loud and black for ANYONE to ignore what I was saying. Take note... everything I said happened.

Than we should sponsor your gin

[Mystic~]

Since we're being honest lol... I actually called out that APC rush on Canyon, but later realised my mic was still muted having previously gone for an end-of-game celebratory piss. Sorry

I tend to get headaches playing on the same team as Ryz, Kenz or Tony, but I think that's largely because they're some of the most vocal players. Whatever mood they tend to set gets amplified. Ryz's ideas are 50/50 - my constructive criticism would be they're sometimes completely unfeasible to do under the conditions and other times they detract from the main plan and complicate things.

I don't think further micro-management is the way to go with playing Ren, it's just a game after-all and you can take it too far. I am however all in favor of greater team synergy, awareness, observation and listening... I also like it when players intuitively pick up on and voluntarily plug gaps as well as acknowledging and using individually known players preferred skill sets.

Attitude is also another big thing - even if you lose the first game, just accept it and try and stifle the moaning and criticism (particularly of individual players) because it very quickly sets the tone for the rest of the PUG for that team. Whilst the opposition get a huge morale boost.

Repeat offenders could probably get messaged or spoken to in private by team captains rather than being scolded in public.

[RoundShades]

I am sometimes like Ryz in the sense that sometimes I want to do plans that essentially say "fuck it and abandon base and just slam the fuck out of an enemy building, if we lose ours at least we got theirs". I am also vocal sometimes but not always. Ask for attitude, if it's the first game, at least you get an idea of what you are up against, and different maps have different gameplay. However, if the game is sinking, even I speak out about it, the teams need remixed because if it's literally going to go out with 5 games lasting 10 minutes and the same team gets slaughtered every time, I expect nobody to smile and compliment the evening.

[yosh56]

Roll call for Consistency's sake.

[DoctorB0NG]

Yo

[kenz3001]

ehhhhxxxxxxxx

[Ryz]

Time fight Kenz, uh the enemy again. Hope I can make it!

[Guest Gliven]

yup

[yosh56]

I MAY be there.

[Madkill40]

TLDR: PUGs are awesome, I am nitpicking.

L0ng version

Generalisation:

Sometimes if I'm not able to take part in one of the focused operations the Commander is organising during a match I almost feel left out, but then I usually wind up with part of the non-talkatives collective and we manage to hold our own until I'm the last one left and even then I'm still holding one side by my entire self (map depending) if and only because the opposing team seems to be fleeing the situation. (Or they're like "Oh shi- madkills there! fck! run!" -Sometimes it's related to the commander squad objective)

Those moments are so often they make the PUG enjoyable for me but upon speculation each faction will have the vocal pushers and the non-talkative holders throughout a game. (Barring the one person who is vocal and actively defends the base at all times)

I like the all-as-one rushes, they're awesome fun!

Folks just need to deliver a short and vocalised situation report (i.e. "2 Meds, 1 APC, Left side!") in either ALL-CAPs in team chat or in teamspeak and for someone to either respond with "Affirmative!" using voice-commands or vocally in teamspeak just to confirm that everyone in a team is paying attention to at least one another. This should happen in every situation by all, not just some of the time. If some Q-spots an enemy and you're there then relay it vocally.

The non-talkatives have whatever reason they have for not talking I accept this so long as they're listening, but if in the middle of a game during a PUG every person who actually talks does the black-ops group thing then that team is going to struggle simply because there's nobody else to notify the team before the enemy has reached the base. (Non-talkatives do go with these groups too)

In these situations a team is going to struggle with victory because we only know the opposing side reached the base because one person with a voice is in the base defending. The problem here is the team is only informed of enemies reaching the base when they reach the base because the vocal-pushers are together as a group and playing as a unit instead of playing as a whole team in that situation. (These situations last anywhere between 2mins to 10mins)

This is easily accidentally done, just pointing it out so it can be scarcely avoided.

What's noticeable: if one team gets a bit cliquey by just having the people that talk as a unit then their team is hampered immensely because all communications are centralised around the objective of that unit, which does not help a team as a whole.

My deduction from all this and the experiences I've had in PUGs thus far is, if a team can't work as a whole then either people in that team aren't listening (reasons possible), disagree with the leadership, are attached to map routines or all three.

These are the symptoms and usually caused by the vocal-pushers on the team, a possible antidote for these situations could be; if you're leading the team and your team loses that round then perhaps as a decent leader elect someone else who vocalised ideas in the next round, that way you can be the one to help relay their ideas across the team, help them out, be supportive, work better as a whole team.

If you can't do that then you probably shouldn't be leading anyone ever at all again because if you can't support your teammates your teammates aren't going to take your lead, or at least not all of them and unfortunately we can't cap defectors and rogues. (And by "cap" I literally mean take them to a discrete location and shoot them in the back of the head)

An Idea

A minimum of 4 people can help with crowd control. i.e. If RenXEyes is commander and is unfavoured by some of his teammates because whatever reason from the past which causes them to ignore to the commander then perhaps those people in the team will pay attention when candidates 1-4 relay these commands, or if one of the four state "I'll stay behind and defend with some others" then some of the others could about-turn back to base and not do the stupid one-man-army bullshit.

Additionally, each team will always have someone else who will definitely take lead if the first commander fails to commander good which is at least reassuring to the team for the next round.

This could cause fairer teams and teams to work together as a whole, each team to have a minimum of 4 people that can take charge in case one messes up, (or if the Commander goes quiet for too long) knowing who will and can do this in your team is more important than thinking "oh yeah sure I mean that'll probably happen anyway" -When it doesn't, you lose. In-short: Know your mates!

If you're like me and support whoever is in command by being a relay when a situation requires it, or if the air is dead, then double-coolios, if anyone thinks there were times when your team has needed this then maybe it'd be a good idea to try it out in whichever team you're fighting for.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying each team needs a minimum of 4 people in charge at any time. No. If you're commander, do what you think is best, if you're a commander and don't think you're actually in control of your whole team then try the idea out and let me know if it works.

Edit: fckme this is long

[TK0104]

After weeks I probably will be there.

[Ryz]

After weeks I probably will be there.

Finish your maps first!

Just kidding, I hope to see you IF I make it.

[Alaa]

Oh if I only could make it. School's a bitch. Can't play after 10 PM. Riperino pepperino. Well. Until summer vacation then hopefully I'll join ;3

[RoundShades]

The PUG was pretty good this week. After the official PUG, I defeated an entire base with a chem warrior.

[Agent]

Those were some good games today! Looking forward to next week's!

[Xtractor]

Yeah Awesome games ..

my best Team moment (imo)of todays PUG

We were losing that game ..but..

q7vhR4cNcuA

[Quinc3y]

Yeah, a very good PUG!

Mesa

So far every PUG game on this map is a great game. Nod had advantage in the first minutes, bringing the health of AGT & GDI ref to ~30 with artilleries and accumulating a big point lead. Then GDI managed to push the arties back and a med swarm killed Nod ref, but at the same time we lost PP to a sneaky technician.

After that GDI was very organized and kept full vehicle limit at all times and had field control but we were still falling behind in points. Then the rush (recorded by xtractor) happened. "Poke the ob, hit the hon" worked great and we killed both those structures with 4 minutes till the end of the game and came out with a 2k point lead. Nod surrendered. GG!

Lakeside

Once again "poke the ob, hit the hon" worked. This time it was "poke the ref, hit the WF" and apaches killed the latter in the early game. GDI was close to turning the game with gunners in chinook rush that almost killed our ref, but failed. Nuke on barracks as decoy + apaches rushing and killing GDI ref resulted in a surrender from GDI.

Goldrush

The game where the communication & teamwork sucked the most in our team. We lost WF to an early infantry rush and then AGT to a flame rush, even though both of these rushes were called out minutes before arriving.

We still managed to kill the obelisk with a gunner rush, but then we lose our ref to another flame rush, which, once again, was announced early enough to be countered. After that we APC + ion rushed the airstrip, but the ion got disarmed in the last seconds and we surrendered.

Walls

One of the very rare PUG games on Walls where Nod had the field advantage and was ahead in points the whole time.

Stank + tech + SBH kill the GDI PP first and then a tech kills barracks solo - seems like there wasn't enough defending on GDI. They still managed to make a small comeback and sneak & kill the airstrip while Nod was busy destroying the WF with apaches + nuke and then HoN was killed by meds while a horde of SBHs outside-c4'd refinery. Intense game.

Great commanding by Jeff - I believe every building that we killed (except for the solo sneak by Minji on Walls) was a result of his plan. I wish we could play some more of the new maps and discover some tactics/tricks there. I wonder how Snow would look like on a PUG.

3-1 in total, ~18v18 mostly. Nod wins most games.

[Xtractor]

Wall: That Chinock !!

oQn9BZ-qar8

[Ryz]

Was very nice (and close) indeed. Also that surprise on walls with the GDI meds + mammies. They must have ordered them before the WF went down, but nobody noticed the airdrops. That was a good surprise!

[Mystic~]

That refinery was down to 1% health by the time the C4 detonated, and even prior to that it needed just one more shot from someone to finish it. Repairing the outside of a building under those conditions is risky because that much C4 can strip a building of all its armor and health if allowed to go off.

[Xtractor]

I suppose you right ..I should had go inside to see how they were doing with the C4 has it look fairly safe to leave my apache

[DoctorB0NG]

Roll call. Yo

[LavaDr4gon]

Make it another successful PUG.

[kenz3001]

maps is bad

[Ryz]

Have fun tonight, won't make it this week and next week due to concerts and parties!

[Agent]

Agent ready

[testman]

Shadow team in waiting

Agent ready

[RoundShades]

Waiting on word on if a date is making it in town today. Will come if free. If not, something came up and I had to help someone move materials or I decided to go out and pick someone up to hang out today.

[Agent]

Shadow team in waiting

Agent ready

They found me out!

[RoundShades]

Fucking timezones. It starts at 2pm instead of 1pm for me now, US Central time.

10 minutes everyone.

[Agent]

Some good games again this week! Looking forward to next week.

[RoundShades]

Notice: Anyone who is AFK (eating?), walk up to a MCT, with a repairgun in hand, and press "f5" and type in "startfire 0" and press "enter". Your repairgun should now fire constantly on it's own. Stand there, and repair the structure.

If your score is 0, 12 minutes into a game, then it's sort of sad that I can have a higher score than you and not be in the same room as my computer.

[boxes]

Good pug, but the attitude and the complaining needs to go.

[DoctorB0NG]

Good pug, but the attitude and the complaining needs to go.