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https://discordapp.com/gamebridge

"Power your game's social features with Discord

Millions of gamers have come to love Discord's high quality, low latency voice and text chat. Now you can add it directly to your game along with powerful community engagement features. Also, it's totally free."

and

"Automatch players in voice channels

Dynamically create a voice and/or text channel for players on each team so they can strategize their takedowns.
This style of integration is perfect for sessions that are temporary like in a MOBA, FPS, or MMO Dungeon Instance."

woooo ^^

So were not getting Steam integration any time soon, nor Origin even if it had in built voice connectivity. But maybe just maybe a 3rd party tool like GameBridge could help?

 

Also commander mod. We need that back officially, or otherwise.

Edited by Molested Bunny
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I want to say someone else had mentioned this somewhat recently on CT's Discord server...

It's certainly possible to implement this (or another VOIP service), but there's still a discussion to be had on whether it's necessary/desired, as well as setting aside the time to implement this -- my plate's full right now.

If we were to have voice chat, we'd probably want to lower the number of players on each time -- 20 (or 32 on modified servers) people talking at the same time could quickly turn chaotic.

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24 minutes ago, Agent said:

IIf we were to have voice chat, we'd probably want to lower the number of players on each time -- 20 (or 32 on modified servers) people talking at the same time could quickly turn chaotic.

Would have to take a Planetside approach and split chat into squads/Team/Proximity or something of the sort.

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If done in a Push to Talk style.

Could use (for example)

; = Full Team Broadcast (Could be limited to a Commander)

[ = Squad Leader + Commander only chat (Allows a commander / squad leader to communicate to a smaller group making commands easier to filter down)

' = Proximity Chat

# = Squad Chat

Would also need to implement a moving squad function (and potentially cap squad size)

Unfinished list*

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39 minutes ago, Agent said:

there's still a discussion to be had on whether it's necessary/desired

I really hoped this would be pretty evident by now, and only technical diffuclties remain, so i didnt want to bring that up again. But

Game sorely lacks any meaningful way of communication and team coordination.

Spotting is hit or miss. Its vague - did that spotted tech die a horrible death after being seen or its heading towards base, wheres the upper GDI path and if i go there will that be a fools errand. Unable to differentiate between threats: tech is running towards ref but not there yet - ref is moderately damaged but nobody cared for 5 minutes straight - 5 arties are pounding ref to oblivion help repair but also kill them too - 4 sbhs just waltzed in ref back door omg omg its soo doomed guys haaalp and bring anti inf while youre at it cause engies will get murdered - lone SBH dead nuke getting disarmed no need for the whole team to leave field to save ref. 

Text is slow, makes you afk from battle, even in ideal conditions theres no guarantee people see vital info in the heat of battle, spot spam makes info vanish in 2 seconds, chat history is practically in the UI depth of video settings as in afk city.

To get a rush going we have to spam chat for minutes to get players attention or go survey route that distracts and annoys people and still wont reach everyone. Just imagine a PUG with no TS and no team leaders(and teams not comprised of 3+ year veteran Renegade fanatics:cool:). This is our life now.:(

About the chaos(micspam for the micspam gods!) argument i dont see that as an issue. Even in the worst days of Source mods spammers were kicked quickly(mute button would help tho), and i found people dont really interrupt conversations, not even 14 year olds. Again implementing squads even just in game voice chat ones would be useful but not necessary.

 

So in game voice either comes or not, but a quick bandaid to our comms troubles would be that commander mod or at least something like it. Extra visibility sure helped with herding the cats towards The Greater Good.

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13 hours ago, Agent said:

If we were to have voice chat, we'd probably want to lower the number of players on each time -- 20 (or 32 on modified servers) people talking at the same time could quickly turn chaotic.

Also most people don't have mics I think, so I don't think it really matters.

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The more I read about this the more I'm actually compelled to say this might be an interesting idea.

I can already imagine myself charging into combat as an LCG while screaming in proximity chat, so GDI starts running away out of fear of bears.

We could take some ideas from ArmA, where you have different Voice channels:

- Global: An administrative type of voice channel, where admins can quickly tell all players some info (e.g. Server restarting, etc.)

- Side: This channel is used to communicate within the team. Here people tell you about information that's relevant for everyone on your team (e.g. "Technician in Bar!", "Refinery needs repairs!", etc.)

- Squad: A channel used for small squads, in RenX it might be feasible to limit the size of such a squad to 4.

- Vehicle: This channel is limited for every person inside a vehicle.

- Proximity: Everyone in a 20ft radius can hear you, volume depending on how close they are too you. In ArmA, people would use this channel parallel to using any other channel, so if I were to talk in side chat, not only my team would be able to hear me, but also everyone in a 20ft radius.

 

Buuut then again, we already have stuff like TeamSpeak, Discord or Skype. So I'm not sure how useful this feature would really be, aside from the fact that not everyone wants to talk ingame.

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1 hour ago, KrypTheBear said:

We could take some ideas from ArmA, where you have different Voice channels:

- Global: An administrative type of voice channel, where admins can quickly tell all players some info (e.g. Server restarting, etc.)

- Side: This channel is used to communicate within the team. Here people tell you about information that's relevant for everyone on your team (e.g. "Technician in Bar!", "Refinery needs repairs!", etc.)

- Squad: A channel used for small squads, in RenX it might be feasible to limit the size of such a squad to 4.

- Vehicle: This channel is limited for every person inside a vehicle.

- Proximity: Everyone in a 20ft radius can hear you, volume depending on how close they are too you. In ArmA, people would use this channel parallel to using any other channel, so if I were to talk in side chat, not only my team would be able to hear me, but also everyone in a 20ft radius.

This is a very sound plan. Just imagine the new tactical opportunities this could give us. I can already see the hillarious situation as I put the C4s on the MCT and hear a nearby GDI soldier asking his team:
GDI Soldier: Have you guys seen that shady figure entering the bar?
Another GDI: Shit, might be a technician, let’s check it ASAP!
Me: Erm...it was just me, no worries, the bar is clear.
GDI: Ah okay, for a second there I though we lost the bar, thanks dude for checking
Me: Sure thing, anytime, aaaanytime… *detonating the remotes*

 

Or imagine an SBH in the GDI base whispering into the mic in a creepy, playful voice.

SBH: Hi there little fella, I might have something for you if you don't find me very soon.

GDI soldier: O_o

Another SBH: Keep it quiet moron, already told you to shut it until we planted it.

GDI solder: Could you guys call an A-10 airstrike on me, I think we have a situation here...

Edited by Radeon3
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1 hour ago, Radeon3 said:

Or imagine an SBH in the GDI base whispering into the mic in a creepy, playful voice.

SBH: Hi there little fella, I might have something for you if you don't find me very soon.

GDI soldier: O_o

Another SBH: Keep it quiet moron, already told you to shut it until we planted it.

GDI solder: Could you guys call an A-10 airstrike on me, I think we have a situation here...

If you guys had any doubt that we needed voice. Do we need any other reasons :ph34r:

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3 hours ago, KrypTheBear said:

Buuut then again, we already have stuff like TeamSpeak, Discord or Skype. So I'm not sure how useful this feature would really be, aside from the fact that not everyone wants to talk ingame.

The main problem with the "stuff we already have" is that is not in game, not mandatory, therefore only 5 people use it at beast from a full 60 man server. Even then they are not on the same side, and if they are thats stacking and unfair advantage gained from voice communication.

 

I clearly remember games where poi and some pals were using ts and they were actively playing together. They totally annihilated everything and anything in their path and people were quick to call hax. While twitch skills that make average aimbots look inferior sure help their real strenght was voice assisted team play.

Its not hard to look like a demigod when other players are running around like headless chickens doing random stuff.9_9

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Overall an ingame voice communication would be desirable, but I'm not very keen on hearing people of the enemy team. Like Algol as an sbh whispering in everybody's ear: ~~You're gay!~~ :rolleyes:

Judging by the PUGs hearing your own teammates is often more than enough. :P 

I still remember a PUG, where like nearly everyone was talking and what a clusterfuck it was.

Edited by Denuvian
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Umm... I kind of have some issues with the following remarks:

28 minutes ago, Molested Bunny said:

The main problem with the "stuff we already have" is that is not in game, not mandatory

Are you suggesting, people should be *forced* to use VOIP?

28 minutes ago, Molested Bunny said:

unfair advantage gained from voice communication

Why would it be unfair? It is in everybody's freedom to do so...

2 minutes ago, Denuvian said:

Like Algol as an sbh whispering in everybody's ear: ~~You're gay!~~ :rolleyes:

Don't forget Chlenix! I shot him once, and he anointed me "Gay". :S

Edited by limsup
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Just add a parameter where if more then 3 people talk at any given time the gamebridge mutes the mics until they up the shut. :D (if this is at all possible)

Coupled with the commander mod this would probably integrate quite nicely, players who refuse to listen can always mute mics. Talking is not mandatory but sometimes when you're ducking and dodging you can't tell your team where the enemy is or is heading without dieing and losing your hold.

Voice integration please.

Micbans as well please.

Edited by Madkill40
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On 9/8/2017 at 5:46 PM, limsup said:

Are you suggesting, people should be *forced* to use VOIP?

Yeah thats the idea. See if everyone used ConstructiveTyranny TS server now with or without a mic, and there would be a script that lumps players in their teams respective channel we wouldnt have a problem here.

On 9/8/2017 at 5:46 PM, limsup said:

Why would it be unfair? It is in everybody's freedom to do so...

And its in everybodys freedom to not play teamplay oriented games without the means to communicate with the team effectively while some can. Also not having 2:30 kd while getting noobjetted to hell and back in 3-5 minute matches would help greatly with player retention.B|

 

 

Im not expecting commander mod and voice integration to solve all our troubles. Im expecting it to make moments possible where the team works as team and the game plays much more like it was meant to be played. I expect to make Martys life hell when even the lowliest noob riflemen can call out sneaking tech while getting pistoled to death, expect to tarnish pois flawless kd score when we instantly send her exact location to our arties and she finally learns to fly, i expect to see swith rushes, valiant building defences, not losing buildings to random low effort solo nukes, and marauding SBH gangs that can truly be the bane of the unbelievers.

And most of all i expect to hear epic its not down yet lines that i can remember fondly even after 7,5 years. :D I stopped playing Empires early because i didnt really like it(i still have nightmares about engies shooting me down with a pistol as an assault or any other anti inf role really), and the lack of players, but what i did greatly like was the voice chat, the commander options, and the heavy teamplay focus. Also the spectator slot was always a chatty ts lounge.

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As an update to this: We'll be looking into VOIP solutions (probably not Discord gamebridge admittedly, but it's an option) since it seems to have pretty decent support and it would obviously be possible to disable voice chat or mute individual players client side. Don't get your hopes up for this actually being added though -- it's not a high priority and would be non-trivial to implement when we already have a pretty decent backlog of features to implement (especially in the UI area).

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53 minutes ago, Molested Bunny said:

expect to tarnish pois flawless kd score when we instantly send her exact location to our arties and she finally learns to fly,

Yeah... what makes you think that Artillery would immediately listen and comply? I love it when most of the time random people start using them and are not mindful of their own repair crew...

Also, you have stated that people should be forced to use VOIP. Then what method would you suggest (communication channel flood aside) dealing with "self-appointed" commanders, and would you think it would mandate all other players to follow someone's orders?

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5 hours ago, DarkSn4ke said:

"Watch the left side." xDanyone who paticipated in yesterdays PUG know's what this is about  :P

I'd never take part in a public match where players are forced to use VOIP.

Spoiler

Gr8 that you find it more important to bash me (again) for using communication in a PUG to ask backup (while I never got a reply from 90% of the team. If people would answer that they can't help or respond in any other way I would stop asking) than that you care about people  screaming random (sometimes drunk / stoned?) stuff through the channel all game or deliberately ignoring commander @TK0104 even with a simple map vote.   I vote what the commander asked, you questioned his choices numerous times.

I know you and others dislike me and like to bash me for playing the game fanatic or whatever it is I do... At least I know how to use a microphone and yeah I might use it too often when a game gets tense, but at least I don't start talking non game related bullshit during the game... On the other hand: the fact that you can't reply in game , or talk with me after the game about this while using your mic, , but post here and on other channels just to make fun about it , says more about your ability to use VOIP than about VOIP itself. 

More important: About the VOIP stuff question itself. It would help out in coordinating a team more precisely sometimes. But since half the team doesn't even use a mic during a PUG (where you are supposed to use one) I doubt this will be very different in a Public Game. For me the commander mod actually helped a lot cause it's clear what the target and plans are. Off course integrating VOIP would be handy, but I am not even sure If I am able to use it all the time cause microphone makes noise (and our house is kinda soundy). I would surely listen to it to pickup information. 

 

 

Edited by Ryz
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Just being able to call out where the enemy is over mic (rather than detailing a plan of action) is more ideal and likely to occur with VOIP, especially if those capable of voicing their calls can detail more precisely where and what the enemy is in a much shorter amount of time.

Being able to mute individual players' mics is the best way for users to moderate what's going on.

But I hope any UI features to come about include players being able to join a sub-team within a faction.

e.g. Sub-team Attackers; players in this sub-team appear in chat coloured with orange, Defenders; players in this sub-team appear in chat coloured with violet, Infiltrators; players in this sub-team appear in chat coloured cyan, Freelance; players in this sub-team are here by default and will have default colours.

From a UI perspective that gives players an incentive and a role to play in their team, no limits, but it does help players coordinate themselves with their team without necessarily having to communicate directly who does what... 

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3 hours ago, Madkill40 said:

Sub-team Attackers; players in this sub-team appear in chat coloured with orange, Defenders; players in this sub-team appear in chat coloured with violet, Infiltrators; players in this sub-team appear in chat coloured cyan, Freelance; players in this sub-team are here by default and will have default colours.

From a UI perspective that gives players an incentive and a role to play in their team, no limits, but it does help players coordinate themselves with their team without necessarily having to communicate directly who does what... 

 

So squads basically. I think those are a great idea. I'll be honest I haven't played a lot of shooters, but back when I played Battlefield 2, I did like the idea of being a part of a squad. 

Helped make each player feel they could be useful.

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On 9/11/2017 at 7:49 PM, Sarah! said:

Honestly with the current resources of 'dev time' available, other things could be done that are better

Possible. Still the single biggest issue i see is the lack of cooperation. Im not sure in game voice and commander mod will solve that, hell maybe Agent needs to tweak the Matrix itself and needs to spawn us better players who play Ren X instead of us.

 

It just feels bad to log on and see everyone do their thing and hope its sticks. Organising a rush for 5 minutes, and then find out the window of opportunity has long long passed. Tankers ride out hoping theres hottie support only to find to Man Tanks and a flamer and nobody behind them. SBHs and spies heading out to the enemy base with a nuke only to find themselves all alone, without a hint of a team push to make the enemy preoccupied, and moments before they get spotted plant the nuke and watch it fail terribly, and then even get blamed (solonuke? are you stupid?) for their troubles.

Oh and the classic. Were under siege, and i see some Mamba running in the barracks, know he gonna blow it up. Spot barracks, write some quickie in chat, nobody can see it, everyone is spot spamming, run after, spot tech and c4, dont have money for decent anti inf char and then back to hottie for the c4, start pistol duel, get random spawn help, but too late, get barracks blown up anyway. With mic could have called for the help of several players around at the moment of spotting, without, there was no chance.

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Exactly. I see new players barely knowing what to do. Sometimes not even knowing that the MCT will heal the building faster.

Mining is another issue of course.

 

But anyways that's getting off topic.

 

I think voice has the potential to increase team play, but unless it's basically forced, usage probably wouldn't be much higher than it is currently.

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On 9/14/2017 at 6:09 AM, Madkill40 said:

Finding better ways for players to handle the learning curve for Renegade-X I think is at a pretty high priority.

 

22 hours ago, roweboat said:

Exactly. I see new players barely knowing what to do. Sometimes not even knowing that the MCT will heal the building faster.

Mining is another issue of course.

 

But anyways that's getting off topic.

 

I think voice has the potential to increase team play, but unless it's basically forced, usage probably wouldn't be much higher than it is currently.

I believe Agent said somewhere, sometime that they were also busy making UI changes. So let's talk about that!

The biggest problem Renegade, and Renegade X faces in public servers is how much responsibility is required to lead a plan, and how much of a chore it can be sometimes. While I can't come up with perfect solutions to everything, I do think there are ways to make certain aspects of planning easier, like making it easier to see what person is using what tank and gun on the go, instead of driving back to base to use the Purchase Terminal to see the vehicles bought.

Now bear with me because i'm kind of making stuff up as I go.

Remember the icons used to display vehicles and characters in the Purchase Menu? Well, let's put those on the scoreboard on the top right of your HUD!

https://i.imgur.com/TmU1lFV.jpg

Now, anyone can see which character someone is using and what vehicle he is driving on the go! No button pressing required filling another big portion of your screen, it is very minimalistic and based on visual cues. The visual cues make it more simple to understand, because not every beginner may straight away understand what a Sakura is, but does understand straight away that a person has a big sniper rifle as their main weapon! Or a rocket launcher.

You will also see several GDI opponents using maybe a medium tank, or has a repair gun as his main 'weapon'. Off course, not every opponent has their weapon and tank displayed on the UI, only the ones spotted, and that's a temporary thing too.

 

Not only are visual cues more easy to understand than plaintext, but it may also help simplying other mechanics too! Because what would be easier to catch in the corner of your eye while you're fully focused in a tank, one of many lines of text on the top left saying there's 6 Mammoth Tanks spotted in the GDI base, or a transition from the previous screen to this:

https://i.imgur.com/oeTSsbO.jpg

comparison

 

This may help simplfy matters for newer players I think. And it may take some pressure off people that are already occupied, like the persons trying to lead a rush! Off course, these images may find a good place at the chatbox too! Per example:

from: This

to: This!

Dear Nigerian Prince,

No, I am not interested in transferring your millions to another bank account. Please stop messaging me about it. or I am afraid you will have to be notepadded. I take the notepad very seriously, so think twice before sending another email asking the same thing. I have rejected you the last 20 times already, but I guess you didn't take the hint.

 

 

... Okay, that last bit was a joke. I just thought it looked a bit like an email header, or however you call it. And went on from there, because funny... right...? Ok i'll stop.

 

So what do you guys think? Suggestions? Ideas? Terrible? Great?

 

 

Edited by XD_ERROR_XD
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1 hour ago, XD_ERROR_XD said:

[...] Remember the icons used to display vehicles and characters in the Purchase Menu? Well, let's put those on the scoreboard on the top right of your HUD!

https://i.imgur.com/TmU1lFV.jpg

Now, anyone can see which character someone is using and what vehicle he is driving on the go! No button pressing required filling another big portion of your screen, it is very minimalistic and based on visual cues. The visual cues make it more simple to understand, because not every beginner may straight away understand what a Sakura is, but does understand straight away that a person has a big sniper rifle as their main weapon! Or a rocket launcher.

You will also see several GDI opponents using maybe a medium tank, or has a repair gun as his main 'weapon'. Off course, not every opponent has their weapon and tank displayed on the UI, only the ones spotted, and that's a temporary thing too.

 

Not only are visual cues more easy to understand than plaintext, but it may also help simplying other mechanics too! Because what would be easier to catch in the corner of your eye while you're fully focused in a tank, one of many lines of text on the top left saying there's 6 Mammoth Tanks spotted in the GDI base, or a transition from the previous screen to this:

https://i.imgur.com/oeTSsbO.jpg

comparison

This may help simplfy matters for newer players I think. And it may take some pressure off people that are already occupied, like the persons trying to lead a rush! [...]

I actually like the symbolic integration of the vehicle and character icons into the scoreboard. I think that would be especially neat for PUGs, it would make it a lot easier to see what certain people are doing.

But I think that the symbols don't fit that good into the chatbox. I would prefer the actual text version at this point.

Edited by Denuvian
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  • 3 weeks later...

Yeah, the scoreboard integration might be a good idea, perhaps also/instead on the TAB scoreboard, since the screen is already quite cluttered with the scoreboard.

See Battlefield:

screen076.png

I would however use more simplistic icons similar to those on the minimap, and new ones for classes. A lot of weapon profiles are difficult to read/interpret at that scale...

 

By the way, the map view [M] already displays the vehicle and class counts.

 

In either case, it only improves situational awareness, but does not facilitate communication to actually do something about that.

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1 hour ago, j0g32 said:

By the way, the map view [M] already displays the vehicle and class counts.

there are probably too little player counts that know how to "use" the map.

  • Q-spotted enemy units (displayed for 10 seconds on minimap & radar *excl. enemy harvester)
  • team strategy (where are our tanks going, what do we need? -> team counter)
  • HoN / Bar down - do we have ANY hottie / Tech left (*excl. infantry units inside any vehicle
  • observing sneak attempts, maybe helping coordinating [beacon / rush / EMP distraction etc]

... and anything else which you can do with the overview map ;)

Edited by DarkSn4ke
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