Pick Up Games (PUGs)

[yosh56]

It has come to my attention that it is impossible to PUG anymore... because the text does not look 100% centered.

[Handepsilon]

Dang really? I was actually planning to join tonight

[kenz3001]

awwwwwwww shame all revert back to beta 5.003

[Agent]

A very nice and exciting PUG! Thanks to everybody who participated and organized the event!

[Xtractor]

A very nice and exciting PUG! Thanks to everybody who participated and organized the event!

lololollololololloloo epic

[yosh56]

That was fun...... however management with 40 people is a damn chore X.x

[Quinc3y]

Short summary of the games:

Complex

Just like last week... GDI map won in GDI style. Although this week it was closer, after 30 minutes Nod still had all buildings and was only like 1k points behind - mainly because of using the spot behind silo to point whore WF with arties. Still med swarm seems unstoppable, especially with a well-timed Ion.

Field

GDI win on points. Typical Field game, GDI dominating the field and Nod trying to push through the tunnels. We even managed to destroy barracks with a rocket rush, but that didn't help at all, after few minutes we were behind in points again.

I honestly can't imagine Nod winning this map on PUG-level AOW. There's not much tactics possible - as long as GDI spams meds they will have control of the field and a comfortable point lead (especially with the spot behind nod bunker where mrls can attacks HoN). Nod cannot destroy all GDI buildings using infantry only. What would maybe work is destroying the GDI Ref early in the game with some outside C4 or maybe some lucky spy nuking the WF?

Walls

Nod surrendered after losing HoN & being far behind in points in the mid-game. As Jeff said, on Walls Nod needs to arty rush and/or sbh c4 early in the game and hope for destroying a building... but they didn't try. I saw maybe one sbh c4 attempt the whole game, apart from that Nod seemed not to do anything but defend. Not a very exciting game, rather easy win for GDI.

[Ryz]

First two rounds where good, but could have been better. There was teamwork, people listened, but nothing special happened. Third round (walls) our team fell apart and there was less coordination. I think people got tired and also GDI kept a lot of pressure on us. Overall a pretty good PUG, hope for a bit more action next week.

[Canucck]

There was teamwork, people listened, but nothing special happened.

20v20 just feels like everyone joined a normal server. A bunch of people being on TS is nice but it wasn't anymore fun or exciting than the average pub imo. Would be better if we could break it down into 2x 10v10 or something. The original point of pugs was to promote higher gameplay but it's kind of hard to do that when there's always 19 other people there to pick up your slack. Maybe it's more of just a community gathering thing now though

Also where is the pug server at? I get 120-150 in normal EU servers but this one I had 190-230 ping the whole time. I think the sfps was suffering too, damage from high rof weapons was coming in bursts the whole time

[RoundShades]

We may eventually absolutely have to do 2x 10v10 so if we have 60 attendees we will have enough room for them (2x 15v15).

I thought it was pretty good until it ended.

[kenz3001]

was very fun to play too bad it ended the way it di with the server messing up

[yosh56]

There was teamwork, people listened, but nothing special happened.

20v20 just feels like everyone joined a normal server. A bunch of people being on TS is nice but it wasn't anymore fun or exciting than the average pub imo. Would be better if we could break it down into 2x 10v10 or something. The original point of pugs was to promote higher gameplay but it's kind of hard to do that when there's always 19 other people there to pick up your slack. Maybe it's more of just a community gathering thing now though

Also where is the pug server at? I get 120-150 in normal EU servers but this one I had 190-230 ping the whole time. I think the sfps was suffering too, damage from high rof weapons was coming in bursts the whole time

I think 20v20 CAN still have higher-tier gameplay... but honestly Ren's maps were never really meant for that many people. On top of that, we need to get Teamspeak organized better, ala Planetside. 20 people all talking over each-other is a nightmare, and it's hard for small groups (e.g SBH squads) to communicate without interfering, and being interfered with by the other 17 or so people. I'll probably look into solutions for that, and being able to break people up into Teams, then squads if we're going to have this many people. Everyone would be able to talk within their squad, but every squad's leader would also be able to talk to whoever the team leader is. Team Leader could talk to their squad, or everyone at the same time. That way, calling out rushes is still easy, it just needs to be put up the chain by 2 competent people, while infantry/vehicles can coordinate better because random focus-fire and other chatter aren't inhibiting other people's ability to communicate.

[Glacious]

I have to agree that would be much better on Teamspeak to be more organised into smaller teams/squads, a perfect example was last PUG me and SMayhew where on defensive mining duty and trying to speak to each other about who is mining where and when we lost mines was abit of a nightmare at times so a small squad channel on TS for say the defenders would be quite handy.

Only problem I can see is that it is a royal pain in the butt just to organised 2 teams of 20 at the moment for various reasons, people not listening, joining late, changing name, etc etc

[Ryz]

Changing names, yeah f*ck that. I think people just need to be kicked if they do it often after a few warnings. Let them join after 30 min. but give them time to realize they didn't listen. You just hear a lot of them reacting to the message you can't change names with: "Yeah I know, but..."If you know, you know.

Also a 'First In' system. If I join 19:30 en we have 20 players and there are like 50 at 20:15 than it would be horrible if I wasn't able to join. But we don't want to get what you see on vacations where people reserve a place near the pool in the middle of the night.

[yosh56]

Roll call for that one night a week we see multiple servers!

[Glacious]

Woot Woot not long now

[Ryz]

Yo, yo, yo!

[Glacious]

Any volunteers for leaders this week then?

[Ryz]

B0NG and YOSH ?

Maybe Machette can lead!

[Xtractor]

PUG Nice rush

[Agent]

AP Crush.jpg, you say?

Looks like it was good pug! It's a shame I missed this one! D=

[kenz3001]

ahhhhhhh ... nvidia decided not to save any of my vids soooo disapointed

[Quinc3y]

Much better than last week if you ask me!

Walls

Nod surrendered after being 2 buildings behind. Easy win for GDI, who looked better organized and destroyed first PP and then Airstrip with vehicle rushes. Nod did try, but all our attempts were stopped.

Complex

Nod won on points. This map went a bit different from last week and 2 weeks ago, GDI's advantage in field wasn't as big and at one point in the game both sides rushed and WF & Ref was exchanged for Airstrip, which gave Nod the point lead that was held until the end of the game.

Volcano

Nod won on points. Once again this map made for a really good game. In the mid-game, GDI PP was destroyed by arty spam while GDI was busy outside-C4ing and destroying our Ref. An exchange favouring GDI, but Nod was well organized and held the point lead. Then 3 flamers + 2 arties suprisingly managed to destroy the Barracks and since then for Nod it was just about defending until time runs out. The game saw a lot of denied rushes on both sides.

Lakeside

GDI won on points. Epic game imo, best I've played on this map. The early game saw apaches rushing and destroying the WF, while a GDI chinook filled with infantry destroyed the Nod Refinery. Big losses for both teams, but Nod had the initiative for the most of the game, the battle concentrated on silos. Nod 2 tank rushes failed, but they were still 1,5k points ahead 6 minutes before the time end. Then the epic APC rush (pictured above) happened! After an intense fight 2 Ions with cover turned out to be enough and the Airstrip went down, getting GDI ahead in points 3 minutes before the game ended.

2-2 draw

[Xtractor]

ahhhhhhh ... nvidia decided not to save any of my vids soooo disapointed

I have part of Wall.. ( will upload soon)when Ryz was trying to organize something with the chenook but we had to cancel cuz GDI attack .

[Xtractor]

ahhhhhhh ... nvidia decided not to save any of my vids soooo disapointed

I have part of Wall.. ( will upload soon)when Ryz was trying to organize something with the chenook but we had to cancel cuz GDI attack .

PUG :RenegadeX Map: Walls With TS conversation

[kenz3001]

ahhh its ok ... i have too many vids qued up as it is just bummed that nvidia didnt save the fotage

[yosh56]

Basically what we're getting out of all of this is that Yosh's points for building destruction works.

[DoctorB0NG]

Basically what we're getting out of all of this is that Yosh's points for building destruction works.

It's the entire reason we won lakeside.

[Ryz]

Hmmm overall some pretty good games. I am to broken by last night to think clear and remember the map order, was launched in the air during a party and kinda fell hard....

Some thoughts about this PUG, hope I do them in right order:"

- Who was this random (team switching?) Player?

- Random teams with some (small) changes work. Nice to 'lead' the teams longside Freak who was easy with setting up the teams, as was I (I guess). I think random teams, with some small additions if the seam really unbalanced, work.

- We started with walls, from minute one there was teamwork and we had all buildings protected. Our harvy rush failed, but we saved ours.. Issue here was a few ppl not paying attention to teamwork at all so rushes failed and we also failed in protecting the base from an announced rush. What I liked that some people (Boomer, Kenz, Super-KH) kept spreading information on which we could anticipate, Too bad some people decided to go solo and not help the team at all

- Complex same thing, overall pretty consistent

- Volcano: pretty intense, maybe the best match. What I didn't like is the fact that people where asked to join a rush which they didn't. Kenz also noticed people respawning in the 'gathering place' where the whole team was and people just ignored our whole plan. Noticed the same with getting and repairing vehicles. I tried to listen to suggestions by team and work them out

- This also happened on Lakeside where Kenz suggested an engie rush over the river. 8 ~ 10 people assembled and went for enemy base. Kenz mentioned several times (!) not to go for the silo, some people still did and spoiled the whole plan... Later on, when we lost two buildings, we started to work together better. Sydnes, apc's and stuff kept the enemy off us and we managed to plant Ion.

Overall pretty good like I said, too bad some people still join these PUG's only to go solo and ignore teamchat...

[yosh56]

Sooo ROLL CALL?

I'm probably not gonna' be there... but this has already been discussed.

[Ryz]

I am in ofc.!

[kenz3001]

yes and i got my recording problem sorted (shadow play dont like Desktop Fusion )

[RoundShades]

I will try.

[Handepsilon]

It..... depends, I can't join if it's at 2.00 AM my time. currently it's 00.37 here

[RoundShades]

It was planned to not do an official PUG this week and just do an organized public. However, everyone showed up anyway, which is usually the OPPOSITE of what happens. It is very much appreciated, don't get me wrong, and we did have PUG in light of that. Same team won all 4, despite good impact made by the other (mine) team, the first 3 games both teams lost structures, and on the 4th neither team did.

First was Canyon. When they destroyed Air, we said fuck-it and sbh rushed the bar and destroyed it with C4, tried to continue with the WF but didnt have enough health left. The enemy then hit the remaining buildings with ions.

Second was XMountain, Nod had a lot of good infantry pushes while GDI attacked with tanks, eventually coming to a pinpoint when Nod destroyed PP then Ref while GDI rushed and destroyed HON with Meds while sitting on a Strip-Ion. You would think, WF-Bar vs Ref-PP would be a GDI Game-Set-Match, but no, Nod won by rushing the WF with engis (or rocket soldiers?), and afterwards while GDI tried to mount Nod Bunker to try and kill PP/Ref with Gunner/Rocket-Soldiers, Nod defended a Nuke on Bar with 8 APCs.

Third was Volcano. I was actually interrupted during this match so just tried to repair, but it didn't go much better. GDI managed to take the Ref with infantry, then Nod managed to take the Ref with Arties via the Harv tunnel, then I spent most the game parrying GDI tanks with few repairs using just 1 arty at the front lava entrance, until eventually meds got in and wrecked up the place.

Under is usually a GDI map and my team was GDI, but we didn't win it either. Suffice it at least to say that neither team lost any buildings, the Nod PP lost 50% heath and GDI Bar lost 50% health. GDI couldn't get any tanks because the 3-4 that would mass wouldn't get repairs and would melt to Flamers, so I got a Sniper for the first half and killed techs so meds stood a chance toe-to-toe with lights, and the second half I got a Gunner and kept tanks suppressed. It was discussed to try and bring PP down with infantry, but between needing field tanks to keep nod from retaking field every time it was cleared, and having exactly 12 players on the team, nobody organized a large enough tank or infantry rush. We did have like 2 spies if I heard correctly, either an infantry or tank rush would have been nice to merge on a beacon-plant. Which is why we are only going to talk about the first 3 matches Besides, Kenz left before he could record Under so you won't see that one unless you were there.

[Quinc3y]

Good games (well, most of them), even if all four won by the enemy team

Canyon

Nod had the initiative for the first half of the game, controlling field and gaining a comfortable point lead. But then GDI spammed meds, Nod didn't buy enough vehicles and we got a classic Ion at the end of strip, which basically meant game over. After that SBHs managed to kill barracks, but that didn't help since we didn't have enough power to counter more meds and Ions.

XMountain

Awesome game! It started bad for GDI after we lost PP to a sneaky tech (I think?), but then we med rushed with Ion and killed both HoN and Airstrip - we lost Ref in the meanwhile tho. So it was WF & Bar vs. Nod ref & PP with ~15 minutes to go and GDI only a bit behind in points. Unfortunately communication in our team wasn't good, we had no clear plan either... the siege of Nod base with meds & mrls that I proposed took too long to organize and we lost WF to an infantry rush in the meanwhile. Then our vehicles were destroyed with one good airstrike and it was game over again. The final gunner rush failed and APC + nuke rush worked for Nod to kill our barracks.

Volcano

Another intense game. Quick exchange of buildings in the beginning - HoN destroyed by a gunner rush and Nod PP by a hotty, meanwhile a tech took down GDI Ref. 2 buildings for 1, but I think it still could work in Nod's favour if we played better... unfortunately, we didn't manage to lock GDI in their base, not enough vehicles if you ask me. Instead they gathered credits and just med + ion 'ed us again

On a side note, this was my first loss in a PUG game at Volcano My teams won the previous 5-6 games here

Under

Terrible game

Frustrating for me individually, since for most part of the game I was the only med in team with DeVitto on my side as MRLS, while the rest of the team was busy failing to rush PP, failing to spy nuke, exploring the map, fooling around as infantry or doing I don't know what... When it was 10 minutes to go finally people realized that I might actually have a point with this whole 'IT'S UNDER, GET MEDS' thing and Ryz ordered a med rush.... but we never managed to get more than 4 meds online.

Nod won on points while not really doing anything the whole game, just having control of the field I guess. Sigh.

Even though 3 out of 4 games were really good, I feel random teams did not work this time. Team Bong had better players and was clearly better organized. Anyway, I'm happy that the PUG actually happened and that I could have fun as every week

Edited November 21, 2015 by Guest

[SMayhew]

A very good PUG! First three games were great, but yeah Under was really abominable.

All in all it was good fun. Look forward to next week!

[Ryz]

Hmm I see two extended reports about the game, so I am not gonna write one, but there are a few things I like to mention:

- 'random' teams are almost as good as picked teams. This has been proven past two weeks

- As soon as a team loses a few games in a row, it will lose all. So far in the past 40 games on PUG I managed to lose at least 36. You could see the team fell apart after round 2 and on Under we didn't get much organized. I think I had like 10 vehicles killed in less than a minute without repairs. Even had an MRLS killed twice cause my teammembers decided to drive away (with no damage) when two lighttanks came. I was vulnerable and they could help me, but chose to go solo and don't give a fuck about teamwork....

Another thing:

C4 inside should do directly damage to the building and bypass the armor system. I like the new 'armor' thing for maps where the enemy is whoring the WF like on field, but the way it works with the MCT is absolutely horrible. As soon as mines go off you just have to make sure you have someone near a building and repair it less than a second and it's saved... You used to be able to 120percent damage so even if a building got repairs it was possible to take it down. Now I noticed that sometimes a MCT had +10 C4 but still was saved. But more horrible (and this happened a lot) when you silently infiltrated someone respawned in the building (ref on Xmountain for example), noticed the C4 in the last 5 secs and still resqued the building. The building armor should be to prevent from whoring, not to make any building rescueable when someone manages to first sneak to it, than remove mines silently and fuhrter on places C4 and waits for 25 seconds. That's an action which takes at least 2 minutes and which can be undone in less than 2 seconds...

[Xtractor]

Not sure Building armor is a good thing ,mb it is ,have to play more to judge.

Sure any c4 on MCT should have full power like on a building with no armor .

[TheOlsenTwins]

What is different with building armor? You can still take a building down with the same amount of c4?

[Bananas]

When yosh added building armor, he also increased the total hp of buildings. It used to be a hotty could do 120% damage to a building with all c4 on the mct. Now a hotty only does exactly 100%.

Still seems fair to me. Not sure why such a cheap class should easily take down buildings (but this might be looked at). Just bring a team mate with you or have someone else do more damage.

You say it's easy to stop the building kill now, but the same could be said about before the change. It was ridiculously easy to get the building kill. Put timed...put remotes...throw proxies at the door. Then the enemy had 30 seconds to figure out which building and get through your proxies. Was easy.

[Xtractor]

That is why mining as defense is important .Mining is a core mechanic specific to protect buildings infiltration and that shouldnt be replace by other stuff imo.

As for Armor ,mb if this was not a default feature but something we could activate at a cost to a building like an upgrade in RTS games..but I can live with how it is now ..just saying

[kenz3001]

sorry i was raging so much coz people were doing silly little things

any way here is some footage form about 2 / 3 weeks ago

[Xtractor]

Just a though here ..Remember the PED in HoN and Bar in the original Renegade , where if there was a ion/nuke on it was an instant Base kill (win) ?

What if this PED was reintroduce for a new utility :

To Upgrade the Base defense ( to armor)

Say it will cost 5000 cred ..you spend your cred (with the repair gun) on it it would be cumulative .

Say I have 500 credits to spend,I Rep the thing for a while and come back later to rep more ..as any other can do .When it will be full actived 5000 credits cost .Base Armor will be activated .. Could make variant to it

[SMayhew]

I apologise for my excessive swearing at times, just hope that Kenz didn't record those parts.

[Ryz]

What I don't like about the armor system is that it was introduced to reduce pointwhoring, but now makes hitting the MCT worthless unless you aren't discovered. In other words: you are not gaining a benefit from an infiltration attempt anymore. One respawn in a building and you have to chose between detonating C4 (cause if you die you can't, but if you do people pour in) and shooting the defender (which can just hit the PT and have full health again).

[TheOlsenTwins]

Well at least you have dealt a massive amount of permanent damage, which will make a building destruction much liklier in the future...

[LavaDr4gon]

On Xmountain I managed to infiltrate the wf and was caught so I detonated my c4. I expected it to die but GDI saved it. I came back later to discover that it was at 1 lousy percentage. When I reported it to my team they responded by doing a rocket rush which was completely successful despite that someone was repairing the wf.

I am kind of angry at the armor system because it is much harder to destroy a building, but the permanent damage really helps later in the game. I see o reason to change it, except that casual players might not take the advantage of it.

[Ryz]

Maybe we can take this to a different topic? Mods? Sorry I started this, but I still think MCT should be threated different than the outside of a building. What happened with you lava is exactly what I meant...

[yosh56]

The MCT doing direct damage was a thought during building armour's creation, but that eventually got shot down due to the fact that it's kind of broken. You could literally ALWAYS cause permanent damage, especially since getting into a building as a Hotwire especially isn't an impossible task, but figuring out which building you're in for the other team usually takes long enough for the other team that one C4 is likely to go off. That, and remotes doing permanent damage is just a no, as Engineers are already ridiculous for their cost. On top of that, SBH C4 would become laughably effective, especially if weapons also always did permanent damage.

It's far from making the MCT a useless target... like Lava pointed out, having a building hanging around with only half of its health is kind of a big deal.