Patch 5004 (very)Preliminary change list

[Handepsilon]

ok, also be sure to address the crosshair problem I posted earlier in UI Feedback section (I think you've read that one)

[epicelite]

You still didn't update sidearms to have infinite ammo.

[DoctorB0NG]

You still didn't update sidearms to have infinite ammo.

And that hopefully will never happen. Sidearms are already OP. They definitely don't need more ammo.

[NodSaibot]

You still didn't update sidearms to have infinite ammo.

And that hopefully will never happen. Sidearms are already OP. They definitely don't need more ammo.

[Ap2000]

+Added Mine counter to cross-hair when Proximity mines are selected

The stuff you have to put in just to keep stupid people from doing stupid things...

You still didn't update sidearms to have infinite ammo.

You are so damn annoying with that.

Just fucking accept it, it's not gonna change.

[DoctorB0NG]

Yosh just to make sure. Do you do the building destroyed prompt on Flash or Canvas (built in the script)? Can the prompt also be adjusted per screen resolution? I find you Commander Mode prompts a bit too large on my screen

Canvas for now, though I might get Roxez to toss it into Flash. I already have the Canvas version scale text by resolution anyway.

+Added Mine counter to cross-hair when Proximity mines are selected

This will go a long way. The patch has some awesome QoL enhancements that will seriously help this game. Good work!

[Handepsilon]

+Added Mine counter to cross-hair when Proximity mines are selected

The stuff you have to put in just to keep stupid people from doing stupid things...

....which.... happens quite lots of times unfortunately.

You still didn't update sidearms to have infinite ammo.

You are so damn annoying with that.

Just fucking accept it' date=' it's not gonna change.[/quote']Agreed. We've seen enough fighting Engies already. Hopefully if we ever going to 'infinite sidearms' idea, said sidearms would be nerfed big time

[boxes]

Kinda in the mood to throw ideas around. here we go:

Reduce sidearm ammo by half and increase all infantry primary weapon ammo by 50%.

Remotes detonation time should be set exactly 1.5 seconds after C4 is thrown. This makes engies less dangerous during suicide runs and a lot less effective in direct infantry fights. This change along with the sidearm ammo nerf will make roaming adv.engies more risky and a lot easier to deal with.

An increase in headshot damage for all weapons will nerf snipers in close quarters.

Gunners should have their splash against infantry returned to what it was before, but keep the damage the same. They're useless against infantry atm.

Increase stank range and missile speed. Explained in the balance thread.

Add more weight to APCs/Humvee/Buggy. They're too floaty and hard to control at times.

All 1k infantry should have slight buffs.

Hav/Sak - Faster reload time, 200 light/air armor damage in 4 shots, remove remotes

Syd/Rav - Faster fire rate

Mob/Mend - Faster fire rate, faster charge time

All - 2 timed C4s

To put it simple: 450 and 500 classes of both factions are better choices than 1ks. In fact, LCG makes Mendoza almost obsolete, and Patch is a better choice to use in the field than Mobius because of his massive range.

Increase AT mine health, decrease price to 200. They get destroyed quite easily from splash damage from lets say, artys or meds. They're also quite an investment for something that a suicide engineer can accomplish.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Guest

[Handepsilon]

Gunners should have their splash against infantry returned to what it was before, but keep the damage the same. They're useless against infantry atm.

Add more weight to APCs/Humvee/Buggy. They're too floaty and hard to control at times.

Speaking of Gunner, and in this case, Rocket Soldier, McFarland and Grenadier. Please please please fix the projectile spawn. More often than not I died by my own projectile using these characters. This is getting so ridiculous that I literally avoid these classes and resort to Heavy Pistol instead. I know Nod is supposed to have better infantries but weapons that blows up in your face is just ridiculous

And yes... APC needs handling tweak and... GDI APC... they're literally thin papers when it comes to collising stuff (GDI multi-APC rush becomes circus show when they ram to each others and other tanks). Their physical material needs to be looked at

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Gunners should have their splash against infantry returned to what it was before, but keep the damage the same. They're useless against infantry atm.

Add more weight to APCs/Humvee/Buggy. They're too floaty and hard to control at times.

Speaking of Gunner, and in this case, Rocket Soldier, McFarland and Grenadier. Please please please fix the projectile spawn. More often than not I died by my own projectile using these characters. This is getting so ridiculous that I literally avoid these classes and resort to Heavy Pistol instead. I know Nod is supposed to have better infantries but weapons that blows up in your face is just ridiculous

And yes... APC needs handling tweak and... GDI APC... they're literally thin papers when it comes to collising stuff (GDI multi-APC rush becomes circus show when they ram to each others and other tanks). Their physical material needs to be looked at

This has been looked at many times before, and it's as much haunted as City_flying is. Supposedly it's a trait UDK has. I doubt this will get fully fixed anytime soon.

[yosh56]

The stuff you have to put in just to keep stupid people from doing stupid things...

It's what you get when you keep a stupid, antiquated system around.

You still didn't update sidearms to have infinite ammo.

I'll respond to you one of these years.

Reduce sidearm ammo by half and increase all infantry primary weapon ammo by 50%.

Doing something totally different for weapons/sidearms and stuff for 5005, so expect nothing really changed in 04.

An increase in headshot damage for all weapons will nerf snipers in close quarters.

I'm not TOTALLY against this. Especially for automatics anyway, though I do like the LCG having some form of dominance still.

Gunners should have their splash against infantry returned to what it was before, but keep the damage the same. They're useless against infantry atm.

Unlikely. They almost 1 clip an Arty, and they OHKO lower tier infantry to the head. That... and they're already doing the same damage as a MRLS to buildings.

Add more weight to APCs/Humvee/Buggy. They're too floaty and hard to control at times.

I'll look into that, but you have to take that up with the UDK

To put it simple: 450 and 500 classes of both factions are better choices than 1ks. In fact, LCG makes Mendoza almost obsolete, and Patch is a better choice to use in the field than Mobius because of his massive range.

I'm still not sure why the Volt Rifle ever got nerfed...

As for anything involving Havoc/Sakura... I woudn't be too shocked if the Ramjet wasn't even in the final release.

Remotes detonation time should be set exactly 1.5 seconds after C4 is thrown. This makes engies less dangerous during suicide runs and a lot less effective in direct infantry fights. This change along with the sidearm ammo nerf will make roaming adv.engies more risky and a lot easier to deal with.

Creepy, I was just thinking that earlier today, though couldn't decide on a number. That may happen.

Speaking of Gunner, and in this case, Rocket Soldier, McFarland and Grenadier. Please please please fix the projectile spawn. More often than not I died by my own projectile using these characters

+Agreed. We've seen enough fighting Engies already. Hopefully if we ever going to 'infinite sidearms' idea, said sidearms would be nerfed big time+

I still have not ever hit myself with a rocket... (not counting splash damage)

And again.. 5005 is probably just going to go down as that thing that basically re-did infantry. '04 we'll just have to contend with this broken-ness.

+Fixed the Nod Chinook's right gun not having any animations. Haphazardly fixed an accessed none with that as well.

+'might' have fixed the Chinook's weapons not replicating anything, which made it appear like they were just magically damaging things without firing.

[DoctorB0NG]

I love you, Yoshi.

[Ap2000]

I'm not TOTALLY against this. Especially for automatics anyway, though I do like the LCG having some form of dominance still.

You could take away headshot damage from LCG, but increase the overall damage.

Basically making it the ultimate pray'n'spray weapon.

Gunners should have their splash against infantry returned to what it was before, but keep the damage the same. They're useless against infantry atm.

Which is exactly what they should be.

[boxes]

Gunners should have their splash against infantry returned to what it was before, but keep the damage the same. They're useless against infantry atm.

Which is exactly what they should be.

No, it's so bad, I just laugh how I can take out a seven man gunner rush with one LCG and watch all those missiles flying towards me and not doing shit. It's just not right. Patch can almost do the exact same thing as a gunner, but in exchange for building damage, you can actually kill infantry! And not fear the oh so scary shotgunner running towards you.

Gunners should be weak vs infantry, but not completely useless against them. Excluding the extremely unlikely headshot you might land.

Also, are we ever going to see more spammable radio commands? Destroy that vehicle, especially.

As for anything involving Havoc/Sakura... I woudn't be too shocked if the Ramjet wasn't even in the final release.

I actually wouldn't mind either. Do we have anything in mind to replace the ramjet? I mean, maybe Havoc/Sakura could be the commando infantry the devs wanted them to be in like beta 4, make them start out with autorifles, but allow them to pick up any three weapons they might find in the field?

And make the ramjet a crate exclusive weapon? Because it's kind of iconic in renegade.

[Ap2000]

As for anything involving Havoc/Sakura... I woudn't be too shocked if the Ramjet wasn't even in the final release.

I actually wouldn't mind either. Do we have anything in mind to replace the ramjet? I mean, maybe Havoc/Sakura could be the commando infantry the devs wanted them to be in like beta 4, make them start out with autorifles, but allow them to pick up any three weapons they might find in the field?

And make the ramjet a crate exclusive weapon? Because it's kind of iconic in renegade.

Yosh, you best not be gettin' me hopes up!

A sniper-free RenX would be a dream come true for me.

[kenz3001]

500 FTW

[yosh56]

A sniper-free RenX would be a dream come true for me.

Wouldn't be sniper-free, as the 500 (maybe buffed slightly and moved to like a $750) would still be around. The Ramjet really just seems kinda' outta' place... and since Havoc and Sakura are both supposed to be commando units just giving them a sniper rifle that does a bit more damage has never seemed to make them fit that roll.

Patch can almost do the exact same thing as a gunner, but in exchange for building damage, you can actually kill infantry! And not fear the oh so scary shotgunner running towards you.

Gunners should be weak vs infantry, but not completely useless against them. Excluding the extremely unlikely headshot you might land.

I dunno... I could have sworn this is what sidearms were for. I always look at people stupid when they use Gunner's rocket launcher when there's like 8 of us. It's just a waste of ammo to begin with.

Also... Patch can't shoot across the entire map (though his range is kind of insane for an automatic)

Very unlikely to go back on this, as it's pretty hard to find a sweet spot with an automatic rocket launcher. I mean... just say that out loud: automatic rocket launcher. .

[boxes]

I dunno... I could have sworn this is what sidearms were for. I always look at people stupid when they use Gunner's rocket launcher when there's like 8 of us. It's just a waste of ammo to begin with.

Also... Patch can't shoot across the entire map (though his range is kind of insane for an automatic)

Very unlikely to go back on this, as it's pretty hard to find a sweet spot with an automatic rocket launcher. I mean... just say that out loud: automatic rocket launcher. .

Sidearms don't have the range and are a bit of an investment just to protect yourself from other infantry, but whatever, I don't really play GDI anyways. More easy gunner kills for me!

[Bananas]

Just use the pistol as gunner lol. Pistol owns.

[Handepsilon]

Dem Handcannons (Heavy Pistol) owns more than Silenced Pistol, too. And it stays true to Gunner's weapon's nature. Boom boom boom

The stuff you have to put in just to keep stupid people from doing stupid things...

It's what you get when you keep a stupid, antiquated system around.

.

I'm sorry, but does this imply that you do agree that the current mining system can be/should be reworked?

[yosh56]

Dem Handcannons (Heavy Pistol) owns more than Silenced Pistol, too. And it stays true to Gunner's weapon's nature. Boom boom boom

The stuff you have to put in just to keep stupid people from doing stupid things...

It's what you get when you keep a stupid, antiquated system around.

.

I'm sorry, but does this imply that you do agree that the current mining system can be/should be reworked?

Never said I didnt agree, just said I didn't want to make drastic changes out of scenic nowhere.

[Ap2000]

Well then how about giving Gunner the handcannon as standard side weapon?

[TK0104]

Don't do that. The game is already messed up since beta 4. I'm not a fan of Those map changes like in Field, Mesa, Goldrush, Canyon.

CANYON: The new road to silo for Nod. Nod already has a big tunnel under their base.

FIELD: the tunnel entrances. It's now somehow possible to get APC in tunnel.

MESA: the cave was originally for vehicles and the ref side path was infantry only. And the silo looks crappy near tower. And barracks moved to pp location and pp to bar location

GOLDRUSH: I didn't like they made infantry path smaller. And they removed the tower in middle of the map and replaced it with a silo. Why they didn't make a new infantry path to silo

But giving gunners handcannons. I don't like that. It's unfair for Nod.

[lone0001]

MESA: the cave was originally for vehicles and the ref side path was infantry only. And the silo looks crappy near tower. And barracks moved to pp location and pp to bar location

Speaking of Mesa: the mini-map still hasn't been updated and shows the power plants and barr in their old locations/position. Nevermind that though, I wouldn't be against the idea of reverting to the previous version of Mesa.

I would be against having a delay applied to remote c4 though; they make the eng & tech/hottie fun to play.

Why not give Havoc/Sak the tactical rifle and maybe even an additional weapon along with the remotes they have now. I've always found the tactical rifle way too OP of a weapon for the Patch to have but with the Flechette gun being a purchasable weapon I'm not sure what you could give Patch instead.

Oh and can airdrops just be removed already please? It really doesn't help and just draws games out longer than they need to be.

Tier 1 inf as it is after barr/hon destruction is fine.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Guest

[Ap2000]

Speaking of Mesa: the mini-map still hasn't been updated and shows the power plants and barr in their old locations/position. Nevermind that though, I wouldn't be against the idea of reverting to the previous version of Mesa.

Absolutely. Pre-current mesa was much more fun to play.

But that map has been controversial with the community for some reason.

[Henk]

CANYON: The new road to silo for Nod. Nod already has a big tunnel under their base.

You see that tunnel as an advantage to Nod?

[TK0104]

CANYON: The new road to silo for Nod. Nod already has a big tunnel under their base.

You see that tunnel as an advantage to Nod?

Yeah they can attack from tunnel. Nod can "ambush" GDI

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Speaking of Mesa: the mini-map still hasn't been updated and shows the power plants and barr in their old locations/position. Nevermind that though, I wouldn't be against the idea of reverting to the previous version of Mesa.

Absolutely. Pre-current mesa was much more fun to play.

But that map has been controversial with the community for some reason.

If you want a reason, it's that the tiberium field with the 'old mesa' is too strong of a point to hold. Once GDI or Nod takes the tiberium field with vehicles, they can provide their hotwires/technicians a whole lot of cover, strengthening their position, while the vehicles are able to shoot most enemy buildings. What i would like to see is an elevation of the middle of the tiberium field, high enough so vehicles can't shoot over it. that should limit the amount of vehicles that can whore buildings from a safe distance.

[Handepsilon]

But giving gunners handcannons. I don't like that. It's unfair for Nod.

I didn't imply they should. It just makes a good bought sidearm and class combo to make an OP explosive guu

[yosh56]

Yeah they can attack from tunnel. Nod can "ambush" GDI

You are likely alone on that thought. Nod -can- use it... but it's definitely a larger advantage for GDI since it forces Nod to fight 2 different fronts at the front of their base. Canyon was always called "A GDI map" because of that tunnel, and the fact that GDI had a literal straight line to the silo where Nod had to take a scenic tour through the field or tunnels to get there.

@Mesa: Honestly... I don't like either version, but if I had to pick I'd say the newer one is at least more accommodating to infantry having some form of base lethality. Either way, Mesa II is probably always going to be the least played map just because... Mesa.

GoldRush: Infantry path being too large and wide just kind of made it an SBH haven, which even at this size it kind of still is.

I would be against having a delay applied to remote c4 though; they make the eng & tech/hottie fun to play.

'Fun to play' for you. Imbalanced and rage inducing to everyone else. Remotes are for trap-setting and blowing up buildings... not being used as an offensive weapon. OldRen could get away with no trigger time because there wasn't sprint involved. RenX has to update systems accordingly, especially a system that was complained about constantly back since beta 1.

+Gave the GDI APC, Buggy, Humvee and Stealth Tank some of their gravity back

[Handepsilon]

Aaaaah, almost forgot. The invisible floor collision in all refinery! It allows you to SOMEHOW climb up to the top if you got a humvee standing up in front of its' roof side

[yosh56]

You have to be more specific with that...

+Added Day/Night versions of Field, Mesa_II, and Canyon. MapVote / Skirmish menu just chooses one when the map is selected.

[Xtractor]

I don't like dark maps ,I have to ajust my brightness everytime ,that's why some of my day maps SS are so Bright it because I forget to readjust my brightness

[[TmX]Super-Kh]

well,you can't blame the devs for your own problems really,they are adding a feature that even casual shooter games doesn't have (not to be offensive or anything)

#NIGHTWALLS_2015!

[Xtractor]

Super-Kh":8454dhcc]well,you can't blame the devs for your own problems really,they are adding a feature that even casual shooter games doesn't have (not to be offensive or anything)

#NIGHTWALLS_2015!

If you refering to me as" Blaming the Devs" I don't Blame anyone ,I'm just saying

[Handepsilon]

Field in day!

Mesa 2 in day!!! 8o

Anyway, I can't rec or ss now, but do this :

[edited and PMed instead]

[Xtractor]

Why I have no problem with volcano ?,but other maps seem too dark ,I dont ask for days maps but less darky would be better ..imo

[yosh56]

Field in day!

Mesa 2 in day!!! 8o

Anyway, I can't rec or ss now, but do this :

[edited and PMed instead]

Got it. Will pass it on to mappers or somebody else to see if they can get it in. No guarantee it'll be this patch though.

+Infantry you can not buy when the HON/Bar are down are now not visible in the character menu

+Aircraft are no longer drawn in the purchase menu when it is a non-flying map.

-Fixed a bug where being on a team that last their vehicle building, having an airdrop ready, then switching teams would make your first vehicle purchase on the other team cost double.

-Fixed bug where pressing a number on the Vehicle menu would kick you out of it whether or not you could actually purchase the vehicle

+All maps have gone back to having static mine limits.

+Surrender vote now taunts instead of giving a Mission Accomplished/Failed message. It also is less "And the we were done"

+Airdrops now only allow Buggies/Humvees and APCs

[Bananas]

Good good. Now nerf remotes and snipers.

[DoctorB0NG]

Good good. Now nerf remotes and snipers.

Do it.

[Henk]

Do you have an army working on this, awesome changes, additions and improvements Looking forward to 5.004

And I also agree with Bananas about the snipers.

[Ryz]

Nice with the airdrops!

[Handepsilon]

Do you have an army working on this, awesome changes, additions and improvements Looking forward to 5.004

And I also agree with Bananas about the snipers.

That's why he's called Incredible Yosh

Speaking of the airdrop, what about that bug about airdrop going to minus if you just joined (and possibly change team out?)

[Xtractor]

the Chemical guy (?) in Nod infantry seem to have a too long range tib. gun to me

[yosh56]

Do you have an army working on this, awesome changes, additions and improvements Looking forward to 5.004

And I also agree with Bananas about the snipers.

That's why he's called Incredible Yosh

Speaking of the airdrop, what about that bug about airdrop going to minus if you just joined (and possibly change team out?)

That was already stated as fixed in the first post.

[Xtractor]

About the Customs Maps:

Not sure how the maps are loading to client ,saw some auto download and your talking about also maps in patch .

What I would wish is that a designed Custom map(s) in progress could be auto download for say a week end into a rotation for test purpose then been removed for further tweaking or stuff base on feedbacks in forum .Can this be done ?

[Handepsilon]

server side option, but as already established soooo earlier months ago, auto download is restricted to 30 secs or bust

[RoundShades]

I am ready to try out a lot of these changes if for anything then flavor. Some of these are ingenious ideas I.E. Emp Grenade instant 25% damage on mines followed by their slow disarm.

Only things that may stand questionable to revert:

1) Emp Nades used to have a 2 second fuse. They instantly beat out rushes, you just threw one and the rush was scorched in place by base defences. Some maps like Under, without balance changes, will just get worse. The old fuse was WAY too long, but 4.5 was a better timer for them.

2) Airdrops have two already tested things, an abundant test, and an absent test (pre-airdrop). In the middle, they were still problematic. I always felt a cost that became higher with each purchase was better, in leau of limits, or at least being able to buy bread&butter tanks for each class. Still will be nice to see the change in action however, maybe an APC full of gunners that jump out at enemy tanks might actually work (or get melted way too fast to make effect, but at least things will be tested)

I want to try that apc-o'-gunners trick against an enemy with vehicles at least once, so I am excited for that.

[yosh56]

+Surrender Vote is unavailable till 15 minutes in.

+Added a specific timer for Change/Restart/Surrender votes. They are 5x longer than the normal timer, just for the sake of preventing spamming.

+Added points for building destruction: 1875, with half going to the player, half just to the team score.

+Points for repairing/attacking buildings reduced about 1/3rd

Probably start building this finally.

[TK0104]

Probably start building this finally.

Any chance this week-end 5004 Will be released?