Flame Tank is awesome at killing Mammoth Tanks?!

[Alex89]

As far as i remember all the CnC Tiberium strategy games, the Nod Flame Tank was good against infantry and buildings - but utterly useless against heavy vehicles.

However, in Renegade X, a flame tank can burn down a full health mammoth tank in under ~5 seconds - even before the mentioned mammoth tank can kill the cheap low-tech flame tank.

I do know that the flame tank has a rather short flamethrower range, but i find it really absurd that it's flames can kill a frikkin MAMMOTH tank so fast that you wonder is it made out of flammable wood!

[omega79]

i think if a flamer was close enough to a mammy in the RTS it did quiet some damage aswell + a huge explosion that damaged anything around if it got killed

[Sebqt]

It's fine, mammy drivers and other tanks should have some situational awareness to not get caught offguard by flamers.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

i think if a flamer was close enough to a mammy in the RTS it did quiet some damage aswell + a huge explosion that damaged anything around if it got killed

he's right. flame tanks were crap against heavy vehicles in Tiberian Dawn, but in trade of that they got the best anti-building weapon of the entire game. only an airstrike or Ion Cannon/nuke could do more damage, given it's burst damage.

[Aircraftkiller]

Flame Tanks are another "lost in translation" unit. I'd rather see them get 2x damage versus buildings and 4x versus infantry, but 25% of their current damage versus armored units. They shouldn't be a main battle tank in any situation. The only reason rushing with the tanks works is because they rip through everything in their path if they catch enemies in close proximity, which happens frequently due to the claustrophobic nature of most Renegade maps.

Light Tanks and Artillery should be the bread and butter of Nod ground forces, not Flame Tanks. They should be supplemental units, something you use to siege a base. They have a huge amount of hit points for the universally great damage they put out. If they were nerfed versus vehicles and boosted against buildings and infantry, they'd be a lot more useful I'd imagine.

[A-Rodge]

In my experience, flame tanks ARE a supplemental and situational pick. On most maps with open fields, a flame tank cant even do damage to another vehicle without sustaining 3-4 hits. And after that it becomes the martyr-mobile, who only destroys a tank at the cost of its own destruction.

On the other hand, in organized play, flame tanks in force are incredibly lethal to anything they touch and are a real asset to NOD's arsenal.

I think their damage factors are "okay" where they're at, but I agree that some aspects of the tank need to be reworked to make it fit into a specific role other than just "the mass" tank.

[Aircraftkiller]

Right, which is why they'd be better as anti-structure and anti-infantry vehicles instead of being something that's good against vehicles and buildings, but nigh-useless against infantry.

Also: Remember, it's Nod, not NOD.

[A-Rodge]

Also: Remember, it's Nod, not NOD.

You are absolutely right. I will commit this to memory.

[N3tRunn3r]

I have wanted to try out this new buffed FTANK in RenX and its balance for some days, but I also think that it is time to nerf its weapon against heavy armored tanks within a next update/patch.

You guys are right, a FTANK should focus on killing structures, infantry and against light armored vehicles.

A single $800 FTANK kills a $1500 Mammoth Tank within seconds simply doesn't fit!

Yesterday it just happened again and it is incredible. If newbies in RenX got the idea to do some "teamplay", so we gonna see only FTANK rushes in the near future. Nod will so win nearly all games after reaching $800 credits, if GDI hasn't done a nice rush.

Well, a FTANK's weapon needs to be changed against heavy armor:

* Slightly buff it against infantry/no armor, higher its AOE

* Nerf it against Heavy Armor

* Keep it as it is against Structures

BTW, does the Mammy even have a "Heavy Armor" flag yet?

Edited March 25, 2014 by Guest

[SFJake]

I don't know what the damage is, however it was my understanding that a Flame Tank should rip through mammoth tanks, otherwise whats the point of using them? Anti-infantry purpose in Renegade for a flame tank is quite the joke task, and its only other role is destroying building.

I don't see the Flame Tank as the main battle tank at ALL, just like the Mammoth Tank is actually supposed to be a situational vehicle yet everybody and their mother is using it as the main battle tank.

The question being, are they ACTUALLY a better pick, or is it just a trend? I remember the same thing from early Renegade days where everybody LOVED mammies, that didn't make it the best choice to have 10 mammies in front of their base or mammies in choke points that can get abused and can't dodge for crap. Of course they get buffed in renegade X, but that still begs the real question.

Comparison to RTS are irrelevant here.

[N3tRunn3r]

In original Renegade - so it also works in RenX - the ROT (Rate of Turn) of the Mammoth's turret is really slow.

It is pretty easy to kill a $1500 Mammy with a single $900 STANK or even a Light Tank if you are a good driver. That is balancing, and if you got hit by its 120mm rounds from "distance", so it really hurts. Also don't forget the slowly speed of the Mammoth. It is an easy target for hidden PIC/Rav etc.. a damaged Mammy cannot escape that quickly.

It is always a mistake to stay at once spot with a vehicle and shoot things, same for infantry.

Always be in motion!

A FTANK should do the same, but with less DPS (Damage per Second) against the Mammy's armor.

I remember back the good old C&C95 days. I either massed up the Med tanks to crush Nod, or I massed up Light Tanks to roll over GDI. There are also sneaky missions done by STANKS and rush missions for the APC and Engineers. BTW rushing, Nod Bikes are missing hehe. In C&C95 multiplayer games, the Nod Bikes always are the 1st choice against GDI.

To mass FTANKS was a bad idea, the Friendly Fire hit you hard. I won't tell that Renegade X should exist with only 2 Vehicles for each team.... Just vary a bit around. But in this actual state of the Beta Phase, the FTANK is superior against everything.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Guest

[Daxter]

okay now i have to write my shit too...

first of all: the nod flametank in c&c tiberian dawn was as strong as the medium tank m1a1 from gdi. the only thing why the med tank wins is that he can shoot far sooner than the flametank and therefore wins ...with a red healthbar .

in renegade 1 the flamertank was only good to push forward and kill buildings and tanks that are too stupid to drive back and shoot 'em from the distance.

in renegade x its the same... never actually lost with my mammy against a flametank lol. remember, if the mammydriver is too stupid to use a mammy the right way its NOT the mammys fault nor the flamertanks fault (for being stronger).

but i agree that the flametank is way too weak against infantry. so does the flamerinfantry... he is the most shitty infantry in the whole game .

[N3tRunn3r]

Flamer infantry rocks ^^ muchmuch better than it is in original Renegade, but yeah, could be a bit stronger against Armored Vehicles hehehehehe. It is pretty decent against low infantry tho.

Of course I am not a bad driver, but let's see how this FTANK-MAMMY issue will work without the Mammy's "oh-i-dont-want-to-shoot-but-only-to-reload-for-the-next-few-seconds". It happens a lot, that the Mammy won't shoot its rounds but only likes to reload. Without that bug, we should re-calculate and re-talk this whole issue.

[TP|himselfXD]

Flame Tanks are another "lost in translation" unit. I'd rather see them get 2x damage versus buildings and 4x versus infantry, but 25% of their current damage versus armored units. They shouldn't be a main battle tank in any situation. The only reason rushing with the tanks works is because they rip through everything in their path if they catch enemies in close proximity, which happens frequently due to the claustrophobic nature of most Renegade maps.

Light Tanks and Artillery should be the bread and butter of Nod ground forces, not Flame Tanks. They should be supplemental units, something you use to siege a base. They have a huge amount of hit points for the universally great damage they put out. If they were nerfed versus vehicles and boosted against buildings and infantry, they'd be a lot more useful I'd imagine.

Nods already incredibly underpowered at the moment compared to GDI vehicle wise removing the strength of it vs a mammy would tear any balance the game has to shreds. To be honest it seems to be that the way things have been going everyone says nerf nod and make gdi more powerful and it makes no sense to me and I am loosing faith in this remake of my favorite game. Also it's the mammy drivers fault if they let a flame tank sneak up on them.

[N3tRunn3r]

Nod should always have the advance of Speed, DPS (stank), and Stealth

..while..

GDI should always have the advance of Armor and long firing range.

FTANK is yet too strong against the Mammy. The FTANK is the only real "armored" vehicle which Nod have and it should NOT do that much of DPS, but to harass GDI at the front due to their great armor while other Nod vehicles shoot from behind the FTANKs. With its actual state, only the FTANK will be bought aganst everything.

Personally in the original Renegade, as a Nod player I always take the FTANK to defend our base. It is a nice armored tank to defend/block the base entrance, works pretty decent as a "wall" as already mentioned.

It is also an issue, that the global settings of RenX only allows a vehicle limit between 7 and 10. I think that is why the FTANK is that strong. I want a vehicle limit of 20!!

[Alex89]

Overall the balance seems rather shitty and there is a lot of work to be done before Renegade X is even remotely balanced.

One thing that makes absolutely no sense are the mammoth tanks made out of wood.

Crispy, crispy wood.

[SFJake]

You're not suggesting Mammoths are too weak?

[OfficerMeatbeef]

I don't see the problem here at all. A Flame Tank will get destroyed vs a single Mammoth long before it can do any substantial damage if it has to close any reasonable distance. If there's anything else supporting the Mammoth, it will probably not get more than a few feet. Even if it does get up to the Mammoth, if the Mammoth is properly supported it will probably still win out.

That "rather short flamethrower range" isn't just some minor detail you can handwave away; a Flame Tank is a relatively large target with moderate speed that is completely outranged by every single other vehicle on either side. If it manages to close the distance against all that fire, it should decimate whatever was foolish enough to allow it to, end of story.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Okay, to wrap up all your complaints and suggestions in a single post:

- Reduce Mammoth Tank reload time and damage dealt. Siege issue solved.

- Reduce flame tank damage against heavy vehicles and increase damage vs infantry. Flame Tank assault issue solved.

All other complaints here sound like not-so-good first time experiences. Learn to use your vehicle properly --> issue solved, you win.

[Tactix]

Why does Nod have airstrikes anyway?

Airstrikes should be an exclusive luxury for GDI only.

It would also be cool if there was a "Gunboat bombardment" option in Islands.

If balance is an issue, add Recon Bikes and SSM Launchers to the Nod arsenal.

You can also add SAM sites to Walls_Flying.

This should add more difference to both factions.

GDI emphasizes on power projection and combined arms.

Nod emphasizes on asymmetric and guerilla warfare.

Also I've noticed there's a lack of Stealth Tank rushes in this game,

while STank rushes in Renegade were very common.

[R315r4z0r]

The thing with flame tanks is that they are very short range units. The majority of units in this game, including the anti-vehicle ones (tanks and infantry included) all have a pretty decent range on them. Well outside of the flame tank's range. This makes the flame tank a very situational unit and the majority of the time it's just worthless.

Flame tanks are awesome on maps like goldrush with narrow vehicle passages. They can close gaps pretty easily there. But on open maps like Field, forget about it.

I think because of this situational effectiveness, it's intended to be a good vs all vehicle, but only if it gets close.

IMO, I think the flamers are fine as they are. But I think the Mammoth's got nerfed a little too much. I don't mind their speed nerf as much as I mind their turn rate nerf. I find it stupidly hard to get out of the way of things now. Like if someone is trying to drive around me, I can't move out of the way.

[sterps]

IMO, I think the flamers are fine as they are. But I think the Mammoth's got nerfed a little too much. I don't mind their speed nerf as much as I mind their turn rate nerf. I find it stupidly hard to get out of the way of things now. Like if someone is trying to drive around me, I can't move out of the way.

I agree with this

[omega79]

Why does Nod have airstrikes anyway?

Airstrikes should be an exclusive luxury for GDI only.

It would also be cool if there was a "Gunboat bombardment" option in Islands.

If balance is an issue, add Recon Bikes and SSM Launchers to the Nod arsenal.

You can also add SAM sites to Walls_Flying.

This should add more difference to both factions.

GDI emphasizes on power projection and combined arms.

Nod emphasizes on asymmetric and guerilla warfare.

Also I've noticed there's a lack of Stealth Tank rushes in this game,

while STank rushes in Renegade were very common.

interesting ideas ... even if i not like the recon bike ...

but in general this sounds like something to think about

[ARC_trooper]

Flame tanks are awesome on maps like goldrush with narrow vehicle passages. They can close gaps pretty easily there. But on open maps like Field, forget about it.

On Field it is pretty good at breaking a siege. There were like 5 mammoths at the front door, so i got a Ftank and took out 2 mammy's before my Ftank got destroyed.. taking a third out with c4 Basically ending their siege.

I must add that they were all clustered, so they weren't able to drive away from me

So i agree that the Ftanks are fine, they might be powerful but kinda useless on open fields due to their short range..

[sarabi]

I dont really se the issue, flame tanks are slow, large and vulnerable to anything outside of spitting range, they're countered yet again by nippy GDI medium tanks who can just reverse whiles pounding away at the armor, and are also completely wrecked by MRLS in it's respective niche of range.

I recommend you stop thinking of vehicles in terms of raw killing power to cost, and instead think of the range of niche niche where that killing power can be deployed.

Flame tank - effective in ambush of vehicles and taking down buildings (vulnerable vs guard towers owing to low speed and proximity required) , fodder at range and vs fast units.

Mammoth - effective vs all targets at long and medium range, highly respectable building damage at all ranges, targets air units.

So yes, the flame tank is very good at it's fairly small niche, but the mammoth tank is good at a much wider variety of tasks.

[MeSteep]

People need to realize that like the flame tank the Mammoth is situational. It is not another 'I Win!' button. They're slow and they give Nod wayyyy too many points...which is why in Renegade only noobs or sieges called for Mammys. I see we're still at the stage of 'omg mammoths have 2 cannons and missiles...omg must buy!' for most players. Stop it. Stop it right now. If you camp your Mammy in a place where a flame tank can use a blind spot and get in close, you not only deserve to lose your Mammy, but also a soap 'n sock beatdown a-ala Full Metal Jacket.

I don't necessarily have a problem with a ftank being used as a close range seiege or seige-buster. I think a better compromise would be to tweak the falloff against armor, combined with a slight speed penalty. Make the FTank driver really work to get in super-close to do any sort of major damage. Personally, I don't think doubling the damage against structures is all that great, as that just getting a single ftank in a base means certain doom for one structure. Any comparisons to TD are moot because of due to the lack of construction and exponentially fewer structures. A 50% buff against structures I can deal with if we nerf the falloff and speed.

[Aircraftkiller]

Comparisons to TD aren't moot because you say so. A lack of building construction and having fewer structures doesn't mean the core gameplay should be abandoned. I'm surprised you're even attempting to argue that point because the obvious counterpoint is that repair guns more than make up for the difference in repair speed from TD to Renegade. In TD, repair speed is dependent entirely upon automated repairs once you assign a repair team to a structure. IIRC, Engineers would fix them completely by assigning the Engineer to the building. You couldn't tell five Engineers to repair one building and keep it intact against a siege of eight Light Tanks.

The core gameplay is there, it's just adjusted somewhat - and that doesn't mean that more aspects of TD can't be incorporated. Renegade itself would've been a pretty close replica of a TD FPS had Westwood not been completely incompetent when they developed the game, after wasting four years with the initial version of Renegade only to abandon the small amount of work they did when EA pressured them to release something.

Everything I've mentioned prior in the thread jives with the core gameplay of C&C, where Flame Tanks deal more damage to buildings and infantry and are therefore countered primarily by vehicles - which makes them a priority threat, even more than now - but they're hampered by close combat requirements. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to do this. I've made a custom map where Flame Tanks had no turret, did tons of damage to buildings and infantry, but weren't as amazing against vehicles due to the lack of turret - as in TD. It was one of the highest rated maps in Renegade and I've had many people ask me to recreate it in RenX, and I plan to keep every change I added and push it farther.

[sterps]

Fjords on Renegade X would be awesome. The version on the original Renegade was my favourite map for many reasons. C&C style balance is perfectly viable in fps. Like the original poster, there are actually many differences between Tiberian Dawn and Renegade.

[Severencir]

in the original cnc renegade, flame tanks tore apart vechs as well, not to mention, mammy camping is a big problem, and getting a hotwire on a mammy is much easier than a tech on a flamer, which would give the mammy the advantage

[MN-Cody]

Here is my 2 cents from playing against and using the Flame tank in the new RenX...its WAY too powerful and the damage needs to be buffed. I have never seen flame tanks rip through enemy vehicles as fast as it does. They spray 1 flame against infantry and your dead. Its bs...and I've been playing Ren since 2004.

[Terekhov]

Okay, to wrap up all your complaints and suggestions in a single post:

- Reduce Mammoth Tank reload time and damage dealt. Siege issue solved.

- Reduce flame tank damage against heavy vehicles and increase damage vs infantry. Flame Tank assault issue solved.

All other complaints here sound like not-so-good first time experiences. Learn to use your vehicle properly --> issue solved, you win.

Agreed.

Mammy could use a little more move-speed (I can walk faster, really?) or turret rotation, both are so bad right now that I could kill a mammy with a buggy if he's alone.

Why does Nod have airstrikes anyway?

Airstrikes should be an exclusive luxury for GDI only.

It would also be cool if there was a "Gunboat bombardment" option in Islands.

If balance is an issue, add Recon Bikes and SSM Launchers to the Nod arsenal.

Agreed on the airstrikes. The SBH is so important compared to its replacement that it's like comparing sun/moon. Why should Nod get both? With flamers to break blockades (and artys to kill mrls if they try a long range version of that), it's not a crucial part of Nod play, but just serves to widen Nod's overall advantage.

You can also add SAM sites to Walls_Flying.

When I first read that I thought 'hell no', but I suppose that would curb the trannys flying high over bases. Might not be a bad idea, as long as they reach only as far as their edge of the mesa. Any further would give snipers too much protection.

GDI emphasizes on power projection and combined arms.

Nod emphasizes on asymmetric and guerilla warfare.

More like:

GDI emphasizes power projection and combined arms.

Nod emphasizes asymmetric/guerilla warfare, and combined arms.

[Christopher]

turning a tank into a oven would kill the crew quite fast

[IMBALISK]

Yes, add in a feature that after 10 seconds of expsore to a flame tank weapon (30 seconds from flame thrower free unit) the units inside the tank are dead. Nobody can enter the tank for 20 seconds (needs to cool down) after the timer any faction can enter the tank, lol.

[Terekhov]

Yay, invincible flamers with technicians behind them. Followed by SBHs who steal all of GDI's vehicles.

No.

[PermaGrin]

I remember getting banned back in the day from a server because my one flame tank was able to kill 3 mammies in succession.

I personally do agree that flame tanks seem to do a little too much damage VS armored units.

[Daxter]

use the character patch and the flametank has no real chance to win...

but maybe this "problem", even though i dont see any problems with the flametank here, can be solved by putting in more variations of tanks and characters...

nod e.g. has the nod motorcycle and the ssm launcher that is still not in the game...

for gdi we can e.g. implent various humvees, e.g. with rockets and so on... like in the awesome old map chinese walls.

to the maps "walls" and "islands", why dont we use the old maps from mpf? they implented a way better defence with agt, obelisc (both) and sam rockets (walls). on the map islands you were even able to ENTER the obelisc or agt and shoot the enemies .

what really needs a buff is the flamechar... i can sooo easily kill such an enemy without even losing 60 hp... never lost in a 1 vs. 1 fight either...

also we should finally implent weapondrops after the enemy got killed (e.g. sbh suit when sbh dies, good for gdi ^^) and also recommendations...

[Valor]

There is a glitch where a mammy or any other tank with a long barrel cannot fire if the barrel is clipped into another object (i.e. a Flame tank).

[Aircraftkiller]

for gdi we can e.g. implent various humvees, e.g. with rockets and so on... like in the awesome old map chinese walls.

to the maps "walls" and "islands", why dont we use the old maps from mpf? they implented a way better defence with agt, obelisc (both) and sam rockets (walls). on the map islands you were even able to ENTER the obelisc or agt and shoot the enemies

also we should finally implent weapondrops after the enemy got killed

Does no work for you?

[Tactix]

Flamethrower needs a buff. He's way too weak and outclassed by the GDI grenadier.

[Aircraftkiller]

A better solution is to make the Grenadier and Flamethrower purchasable for 160 credits / 300 credits, adjust their stats (slower flamethrower running speed, greater mid-to-short range damage, fast grenadier running speed, innate inaccuracy due to unpredictable targets, requires using speed to your advantage), and get people used to the idea of having fewer free-but-mediocre units.

[Soldieroffate]

The Flame Tank was always meant to be a situational melee unit that scorched everything to charcoal once it got close. Outside of that, it's target practice for anything that it can't reach.

Though it's very effective at defending bases too-especially on Field. Back them up with repairs and a few artys and GDI will need a sizable invasion force to break through.

[Aircraftkiller]

Yeah, we covered all of that in the topic already... But thanks for restating everything we've already said.

[Daxter]

for gdi we can e.g. implent various humvees, e.g. with rockets and so on... like in the awesome old map chinese walls.

to the maps "walls" and "islands", why dont we use the old maps from mpf? they implented a way better defence with agt, obelisc (both) and sam rockets (walls). on the map islands you were even able to ENTER the obelisc or agt and shoot the enemies

also we should finally implent weapondrops after the enemy got killed

Does no work for you?

how about you fuck off with ya pic? and tell me honestly why you use such stupid pics? are you 13 or what?

be a fucking man >.>

also im an old pro on the old renegade and the implents they were doing in MPF worked! it was balanced and it was fun to play there (only the forum of the mpf isnt mine...but thats an other topic). therefore why do you instantly say no when you never tried it and give it a damn chance? but it seems like you just want to you hear you own damn opinions and drive over anyone else... retard.

[goztow]

I am with aircraftkiller here.

[iran]

I can back Daxter's claims that he is an "old pro", for anyone seeking such reassurance. He is nothing less than a Renecommando, clocking more than 10 000 hours playing the original game. He speaks with the learned sagacious, valorous ways of the Renegade professional.

[itjo4u934875]

A flamer should kill Infantry fast - not like in original Renegade with jumping inf and lag (Fire kills Infantry fast). If you have a mamoth and dont see a flamer comming its your fault. Maybe demage vs mamoth should be 20-25% less but not more.

[Daxter]

I can back Daxter's claims that he is an "old pro", for anyone seeking such reassurance. He is nothing less than a Renecommando, clocking more than 10 000 hours playing the original game. He speaks with the learned sagacious, valorous ways of the Renegade professional.

oh iran is here too eh? i dont really know what ya wanna say here, i take it sarcastic... i just know that you got thrown out of the mpf server cause they didnt know wether you cheat or are just too skilled.

and im not playing 10 000 hours renegade, i have uni stuff to do too and lots of other games either.

but i surely learned enough in the old game of how to kill the enemy and destroy the base...and i played it for more than a year which is more than most others did lol (the most went off the game 'cause they didnt like it). if you dont like the words old pro than use advanced veteran or whatever i do not care. the fact is that without any conclusion you shouldnt just deny ones idea. (especially with a such stupid pic that you wanna kill such a dweep right away).

if you want to deny my ideas we can talk about it, but i won't accept stupid pics as an answer. end of story.

[Aircraftkiller]

use the character patch and the flametank has no real chance to win...

but maybe this "problem", even though i dont see any problems with the flametank here, can be solved by putting in more variations of tanks and characters...

nod e.g. has the nod motorcycle and the ssm launcher that is still not in the game...

for gdi we can e.g. implent various humvees, e.g. with rockets and so on... like in the awesome old map chinese walls.

to the maps "walls" and "islands", why dont we use the old maps from mpf? they implented a way better defence with agt, obelisc (both) and sam rockets (walls). on the map islands you were even able to ENTER the obelisc or agt and shoot the enemies .

what really needs a buff is the flamechar... i can sooo easily kill such an enemy without even losing 60 hp... never lost in a 1 vs. 1 fight either...

also we should finally implent weapondrops after the enemy got killed (e.g. sbh suit when sbh dies, good for gdi ^^) and also recommendations...

I'll play your game, you rogue. We'll have a civilized discussion about why I think your ideas are absolutely terrible - but not all of them.

I'd like to see the Recon Bike and the SSM. Both were intended to be in Renegade, and like many things they were cut out because WS was incompetent.

Adding Hum-vee variations is borderline "lol realism". You don't even want to know how many Hum-vee variants there really are. Anywhere from grenade launchers, TOW launchers, hospital trucks, mortar launchers, SAM launchers, etc. The model library at my office has no less than 15 different versions of the truck. Would any of that make sense in Renegade? No, not really. Here's why: Nothing but the basic machine gun mounted HMMWV were in Renegade and Tiberian Dawn. It doesn't belong in this game. If you want it, add it in yourself.

The Flamethrower shouldn't be all that great unless it becomes a purchasable unit - like it was in TD. Otherwise I don't see a reason to make it much better, if at all, than it currently is.

Weapon drops are absolutely stupid. They should be a server-side mutator or whatever, not core Renegade gameplay in C&C mode. They make perfect sense for deathmatches, but not for C&C mode. The class system exists because each unit is assigned a specific role and a weapon suited for that role. Once you can run around and carry every weapon in the game, you become all roles simultaneously - which destroys the point of the class system.

Islands and Walls are non-defense maps. They're too small with limited-access chokepoints. Adding defenses would turn both maps into a slog in the center. Yeah, I totally love playing maps with a tank traffic jam.

Recommendations are stupid. They always have been. There are better ways that make sense with the game's themes (medals, ribbons, awards, et al.) instead.

In short, "how about no, does no work for you?" was an easier way of dismissing most of what you wrote. It was really for brevity's sake.

[Daxter]

to your first point: what is WS?

to the second: well i just pointed it out cause of the (for me great) map called great walls or so. the mapmaker there used various new vehicles like various humvees and i have to say it made a lot of fun and was by far the most beloved map on mpf. just saying: dont always stick to the original game... sbhs werent implentend in tiberian dawn either... as well as snipers like havoc or sak... lol. only if you try something out you can make a game better... if it doesnt fit, well try an other idea . mcfarland wasnt in the old game either, as well as an improved tech and so on and so on...

to your third point: difficult... if you use the price form the old tiberian dawn you would have no free unit anymore... even the normal crappy soldier would cost you 100 and a tech would cost you 500! (and would only be able to repair a building...).

even if you just want to make grenadier and flamer purchaseable the variations would be gone right at the beginning... and i doubt anyone would buy the crappy flamer for 200, even the mcfarland who can kill 3 flamers at once cost only 150 or so.

to your fourth point: just play the modded maps on mpf and you will see it yourself.

fifth: recs are better than nothing, medals would be even better of course.

[Tactix]

1. Westwood Studios.

2. There was a sniper in Tiberian Dawn, and he was a hero character.

He was simply called "Commando". Renegade gave him a personality (Havoc).

3. Technicians were in TD, they were just useless civilians instead of advanced engineers.