Mystic~

@Quinc3y Solution for Field/Field-X? ...Under, Uphill, Canyon, Whiteout, Outposts, Walls and literally every other similar map with the same problem.

I think this just further highlights the fact that Nod need a better tank in addition to the Light tank. I know Nod has stealth tech, but this has been countered by large player games where defending is much easier and maps usually only have only a few ways to exit or reach an enemy base... Nod has two unique tank options, but on many maps they aren't useful for much... flame tanks do well on Islands if they're supported and they're very good on Complex. Maybe there can be some sort of game lore where Nod steals some GDI tech in order to get an improved tank armour variant or they get Scorpion tanks from the future with lasers and dozer blades. ...but getting back to point, maybe just make their flame projectile thinner and stream over longer distances like real flame throwers do, unless you ambush something they can't reach, they're like the T-Rex with tiny little arms.

Blue tiberium bomb harvesters were a legitimate strategy in Tiberain Sun. 😄 In fact I'm open to some sort of blue tiberium bomb tank-stopper as Nod seems to be in serious need of this, something you must risk your life on placing on a tank. In any case, just make the crystals green... I think on somewhere like Crash Site you should be able to detonate the field for extra damage and then it re-grows. But seriously, buying extra harvesters isn't a solution for these low eco games, when they're all being sent out to die and having more than one harvester on most maps would result in excess economy. I think manual mining of some crystals tucked away in some sort of cave or side area of a base with an appropriate mining tool is a perfect supplemental solution to the problem of being broke because your economy doesn't exist. I've played countless games of repairing buildings or tanks. Usually I get as far as affording a LCG or a Gunner and you're competing with several other team mates for credits and then I try and take something out, but you're usually facing insurmountable odds and fire power against you, 9/10 this character purchase gets sniped down. Or are we supposed to be letting players invest their credits in some sort of weapon industry stock market? I'm open to serious ideas about how to deal with this. On maps like Outposts you literally can't do anything once you are base locked like this.

I agree with these points, the only one I disagree with slightly is the idea of introducing a nuke truck as this feels too much like Red Alert... I think both sides should in reality get some sort of smaller tactical nuke or tactical ion cannon placed like placing an airstrike using a special gun with a laser sight, but it shouldn't be able to destroy a whole building like a beacon can. I'd like a flame trooper that has some sort of high damage explosive burst fire alt-mode it can use if it stands still, but for charging at your enemy I think the present style fits, but maybe it needs slightly better damage as its easily combated by long range rifle fire. I also like the idea of them exploding just like the RTS so they cause team damage in large groups... this would prevent abuse of having so many grenadiers/flame throwers all bunched up in a single rush and mean teams have to mix up their characters. I know Beam Cannons are a C&C3 unit, but something like this for Nod could really help them overcome overwhelming heavy armour. I think Nod AT mines should be stealth mines by default as they have this technology and they really need these against heavy tank armour. I'm also in favour of a napalm airstrike in particular that leaves fire on the battlefield for a while.

I really feel like the flame tank mostly needs to be used a bit like the mirage tank in RA2, when the enemy get to close and then suddenly it ignites on you. When playing as one you constantly feel like those two people in Saving Private Ryan, the first one who gets shot on the beach and burn his comrades alive and then the other one where one of these rare to see units survives to actually make it into a position where its effective to clear out the bunker. But for the most part they feel like those training targets they float for the navy to do target practise on as soon as you see one everyone targets it, and it's slow and clumsy and has so little armour. The design of the tank is bad, or maybe it's the actual flame projectile and length that is bad... fine if you want to burn civilian homes or trench warfare. If they're really going to be that slow then they basically need to close to one shot burn infantry.

@Havoc89No he hasn't, but I feel I already answered this question in my first reply. His work is good and it includes science fiction type models and experience in Unreal Engine, it's up to you, but I don't see why the team should feel afraid to reach out to people who might be suitable rather than passively sitting back and expecting people to apply based on finding the game or these forums on their own, the new Firestorm mode looks really appealing so I'm sure you could use it to attract some more of the people you need to create content etc. It would also be good to put the Firestorm teaser or a developer show reel on this page.

Cyberpunk 2077 and the Firestorm expansion, that's it for the rest of the year for me.

How to play Nod. Step 1. Do an early artillery assault Step 2. Pretend to do some other strategy Step 3. Gather all team as dozers and assault the barracks. If that doesn't work then you're probably on a map that requires team work, like Walls or Outposts. Re Islands X, I think you're just used to using strat outlined in step 1 and expecting it to work every time, I actually welcome being able to run the different raised rocks to hit camping artillery, but snipers are ever persistent and can counter this. I'd welcome some sort of clay-more mine with laser area detection that can be used to help break apart and prevent large group infantry rushes, but maybe they're easy enough for a single tech or hotwire to sneak past or even disarm. It's a little frustrating knowing that defenders now have an extra pool of mines they can still use around buildings if they want to, I was sort of expecting these to be used out in the field. I also think that stealth tanks have become more difficult to use because people have learned how to more easily counter them, learned the places they're likely to be hiding and often there are people shooting randomly in the hope of catching one. Flame tanks I think get excluded from the majority of games now, a couple can be useful on maps like Islands and Reservoir, but they are slow, clunky and limited in aim compared to the mammoth tank that has great armor, great damage output and good range. In the late game Nod struggles to defeat GDI mammoth tank armour and doesn't have the damage output to stop them unless there are players with EMPs and/or airstrikes, which isn't always the case.

Somebody from the Totem Arts dev team might like to try reaching out to this guy? I stumbled across him on twitter/youtube. He's a gaming design student with quite a lot of UE experience from what his site says, but I don't know if he's available or actively looking for another project or not. @Havoc89 https://twitter.com/JakoMako51 https://www.artstation.com/artwork/xzNWQW https://jacopocolangelo.com/resume

So is the thing where one side can place the whole compliment of mines inside their last remaining building no longer a thing? It's the times where players decide that some buildings on some maps need extra mines that really confuses things, it's often Nod with the Airstrip tower and Hand of Nod when accessible by ramps on air vehicle maps. So long as these extra field mines don't produce a warning when they disappear, I don't necessarily mind when people decide to mine the bridge or back of base route on Goldrush, just have to be careful not to run into them!

Thanks for sharing feedback, I personally prefer the approach of shooting buildings that I know I can damage or in time destroy, the endless approach of shelling buildings is really tedious for both sides, and likewise I don't like gifting my enemy a bounty of repair credits. I know there's no such thing in the original games or lore of the universe its modelled on, but there were never stealth black hands, laser chain gunners, snipers either so I know new things can be created and still fit into the game mode. Having harvesters on maps where they simply get destroyed every time they venture out of the base is just really silly and it breaks the game economy and stagnates the game play. They introduced 'rep tools' as small pistol sized repair guns, so I don't see why they can't create another small tool as a tiberium cutter. Engineers and advanced engineers are already basically unarmed infantry and run around like headless chickens trying not to lose their melons for most of the game. One quick solution might be to give harvesters something like double the existing health or super strong armour, but I did think solo mining could be a fun mechanic as I know some people like to play more support roles, like healers, miners, drivers etc. Whether it helps the teams credits globally or its just for the player would be something to be explored, depends on the value to the team and how useful the person feels doing the job, if its a requisite for all games then I imagine mining could be just as boring, tedious and pointless to human game play aspect as wanting to go on auto-fire MCT repairs, hence an self-driving AI harvester... but this makes no difference at all if it drives directly into the enemy tank line as happens on something like at least 1/3 of all maps, low income games blow, particularly when they're one sided low income games with no hope of a turn around.

That's a good point, I have a feeling the repair pad might be made available to both sides on maps that have this as this is what already happens in the current version. I'm also curious if GDI would get the carry-all tank transport and what difference to the game something like that might make.

Basically, yes. 🙂 I think extra battle field mines are fine, but spending 1000 credits just for 3 low damage mines just seems madness, cash to burn, especially when compared to everything else. Airstrikes sounds like something the comm centre might be useful for, say you get to see enemy movements + cheaper airstrikes. It could be a desirable base building even, but it would mean changing some maps. With the place holders, it would just take someone to record a nice 5-10 seconds of showing someone placing the mines with a voice over, these useful tips used to fill gaps in between maps played, but maybe they could go only into the skirmish mode as training.

Can you remember what original Ren-X mines were like, you could run through 5 mines and it could only guarantee killing about one person? There's no way anyone will convince me 3 weak mines are worth 1000 credits. I even think 800 is too much for an airstrike. I know AT mines can be 'slut mined' to block a base entrance and so in theory so could anti-personnel mines, but they're disarmed just like the prior system, throw an EMP, disarm them with a adv engineer or jump over a weak spot. I don't take any issue with them being weaker damage, or quicker to disarm, but 1,000 credits for 3 shity mines is ridiculous, more so that they just disappear after dying... there needs to be little holographic placeholders in buildings so people know where base mines need to go... as for being able to mine particular spots for extra benefits, I think this is fine and opens up creative play, with a bit more though something can be implemented to prevent people abusing it if anyone can buy them.

My thoughts are that 1000 credits just for three mines seems really expensive, the same cost as a beacon or mobius and more than an airstrike and on top of this they're weaker than ordinary mines and will disappear the moment you die, well that's just silly. If personal mines are going to be purchased as extras they need to remain around even after you die once they're placed, I don't think they need to be that expensive and if they get emp'd people are going to feel like they're wasting too much at that price range... maybe just 100 credits per mine? Capping them at 3 per person seems sensible. I don't mind if they do less damage, although this might become confusing if its not communicated by a change of colour or something if people think that base door/window mines and personal mines behave the same.

I think that's Kane's Wrath era technology, I'd probably find that sort of thing annoying in the base game mode, but I'm serious about laser cutting, lots of other games use this as a method for manual ore mining. If I had to redesign a harvester for this game, they'd become more tanky, or it would consist of a submerged digger and conveyor belt system.

I don't think that is sufficient at all, else there wouldn't be a problem, I also don't think repairing a tank or a building is comparable to getting 300 credits every harvester cycle and in any case you're going to get trapped in a repair role. Often there isn't something that needs repairs and it also doesn't take into account the complete loss of a refinery. It's possible that an infantry miner could contribute global credits to the team a bit like a silo, but rather than it being a 1-2 credit tick as it has been in the past it generate a greater amount for that player for doing work and then something extra to the team. The main purpose of repairing a building or a tank is to keep it alive, getting credits is just an extra bonus and incentive for doing these menial tasks in my opinion. Not having an economy kills this game and there're too many instances where the enemy team snowballs with both a harvester and captured silo and the defending team has little chance of coming back due to low income. Say there are no repair jobs in the base, all you can afford is a basic free engineer, in a PUG you're going to get shouted at for being a free class, you can't make it onto an active battlefield due to various threats and you have a super low survival probability for any great length of time, the result is you get a menial income or waste a lot of time trying to secure that menial income. If you can afford the adv class this improves greatly, but you're then expected to remain in this role to support... tiberium is supposed to be there for the main economy, but you can't mine the expletive stuff because... reason: we had to stop the harvester because the enemy keeps shooting it and getting vp, credits and points and it's pathetic. I think manual mining is perfect for this type of situation, but as I said, I don't think I'd want it to totally replace the system of having a ore miner.

Thanks for giving feedback, I think most of your points are answered to some extent in my original post. I'm not saying the idea being proposed is perfect yet, for example, I'm trying to figure out if there's a way that would dissuade the enemy team with total field control from also trying to manual mining, maybe there's an incentive to do this, or maybe it just takes man power away from combat play in which case they would lose their advantage of numbers due to greedy mining. Maybe there's some sort of time based resource cap in place that prevents whoring tiberium, but it's meant to be a supplement or an emergency way of mining rather than a primary thing. There needs to be consideration of where any such additional crystals would appear of course, but I was thinking in either defensible areas near the teams own base. I'm not trying to suggest just putting another silo on the main battlefield that the enemy team can dominate, like Field and Field-X. I'm also aware there's a trade off, if they choose to try and attack or patrol such areas to prevent the other team mining then they have less players on the field. I think the base original game has already been changed or evolved considerably beyond what you would now expect to play in the original Renegade... character weapons have changed, new vehicles, new mining systems, new building armour systems, new stats for everything, the solo repair tool is the closet existing thing I'd compare a laser cutter to... but both games have similar problems, often on the maps where the harvester must travel to and return from the front lines, which seems so utterly daft to me I don't see why we can't re-think this area. I'm not trying to put anyone off from repairing tanks or buildings, but damage output can only sustain so many players flow of credits, this situation is also only very common to maps like on Field/Under, where as on maps like Walls for example, you can often be base locked without buildings to repair and under constant enemy fire, if this is your only way of getting credits, it becomes really frustrating. I'm trying to solve the problem of becoming an idle player and using basic infantry when low on credits... the donation system also helps to some extent. Maybe something like an excess portion of credits could go into a team wide pot that players can access for upgrading their character or maybe even buying a tank. But coming back to the original problem... is repairing a building or tank an acceptable solution for not having a functioning harvester? Either repeatedly destroyed or deliberately told to stand idle. What about when the refinery is destroyed?

If I get over 50 views on the forum but not a single comment I'm going to get pissy with people for not contributing anything.

So I've just been messing about on the original version you posted and these are my early thoughts. (updated - based on your latest screen shots) One of the main things to work on I think is the placement of buildings and the amount of sheer empty space in both of the bases, I think it's to much presently, but I acknowledge its good to have some space and objects to use for sneaking or hiding. Having the repair pads in place would be nice as its a big map rather like Eyes and Outposts. Also having air vehicles would be a bonus as low level combat becomes tedious, but you would need to find places to place Sam sites for both sides. Likes/Observations: I like the fluidity of the tank paths, the winding roads, the different elevations and I really feel that something like an APC rush on this map could be a legitimate strategy and even tank combat means you won't necessarily get bogged down at a main choke point. You've created a unique feeling on your map that I've not felt on any other map before. Dislikes/Observations: The GDI side walls were good to keep imo, they make it look and feel like a proper base, it makes me think of Hammerfest from Tiberian Sun for some reason. The buildings in GDI base are positioned very awkwardly, particularly the power plant, but also the Refinery and Barracks now feel to close together. The GDI power plant seems really exposed and you can easily hit this with Nod artillery units from a far distance without the AGT being able to offer it much protection. I'm wondering if its fair or sensible to put this so close to the front of the GDI base? It almost certainly has to go to the back of the base, a bit like Arctic Stronghold so it's more protected. The Nod power plant looks too close to the Hand of Nod. The removal of the ridge hill with the turret on the Nod right flank I don't like, this seemed necessary as a defensive position, but now the whole base is open and exposed to attack from that one side. There were a few floating trees and one of the Nod turrets was floating. The lighting feels quite harsh in places, particularly inside the Nod refinery I noticed everything was too bright and lit up, but I can't say why this is. It's not obvious that you will die on the black lava rock and I witnessed many of the AI jumping into the lava and trying to swim across the river. It also looks like they are meant to be stepping stones sticking out of the lava which feels misleading, I might be tempted just to remove the mesa stones in the lava, or actually turn them into a feature infantry sneak route if you know how. The Nod base feels so well fortified with natural rock compared to the GDI side which is very open, exposed and I imagine Nod can hit a lot of different buildings from many different angles from the central field compared to a GDI attack on Nod which has lots of mountainous rock cover.

Maybe after a building kill the player gets a small medal icon showing up next to their name that then resets either next game or after logging off for the day or some other period say up to a week and other players can see these players are being more valuable to the team. The idea of unlock-able achievements sounds okay, other games do this, for example, say you get 25, 50, 100, 200 head shots with a sniper, 15 buildings destroyed etc and the game is partially integrated into Steam so maybe Steam badges could work for this sort of thing, but they would be more permanent milestones that survived beyond each game. The game already has several slots at the end of each game to credit people with best defensive player, best offensive player and most valuable player for the team by name. If my memory serves me right I know the kill feed says "player x destroyed the Refinery" upon destruction, but maybe there could be a more prominent message in the mid screen area that says this along with player name and some sort of spinning gold star etc as I know many people like to celebrate buildings destroyed, although this would be more difficult to attribute fairly when it comes to a group push. At the end of the game maybe there could be a quick video compilation action-replay of each building going down showing who took it down. See what other people say, but at the moment I feel this might be adding more bulk to the game, but its fun to see individual merit visible from within the game itself.

Can you take and post some larger and more hi-res screenshots of it please? It's been quite a long time since we've seen a new in-development map, so I'm quite excited to see more of it. I'll probably try it out closer to the weekend. Also please provide more of a description of the map, how many tank and infantry routes does it have, tech buildings, is it built to accommodate air units, how many players, any special features or story behind it and is it close to what you envisioned at all?

The idea is to allow manual mining of tiberium for credits when harvesting isn't viable. This was half joking and half serious during the last pug chat, someone compared it to mine-craft, but I'm not thinking about pick axes or crafting tiberium weapons, more just mining using a laser. So there are several maps where the harvester travels directly onto the main battlefield including Field, Field-X, Under, Canyon, Walls, Whiteout, Tunnels and maybe a few more maps I can't think of right now. The harvester usually gets destroyed the majority of the game over and over or gets stuck in base, especially if one side can dominate the field as usually happens and it leaves people to defend with low tier units and they can often never able to mount an effective counter attack or recover as they have little team wide money compared to the opposition. I was proposing the idea that maybe engineers could carry some sort of plasma torch or laser tool that maybe you purchase for free and then you go manually point it at a large tiberium crystal in order to generate credits more quickly than you could otherwise without it. Possibly not as many credits to be as valuable as a harvester dump but quicker than waiting for a 1 credit silo/refinery tick over time. I'm aware that you can repair tanks and get kills to earn credits but this isn't always viable, repair jobs can only accommodate so many repairers, like suckling for milk. Some of these crystals could even be placed hanging out of the cave walls and in tunnels rather than expecting and allowing players to be sniped trying to reach and get close to the main tiberium field. Say you earn up to 100-150 credits for successfully mining a piece before it has to regrow and it takes a little bit of time to mine like disarming a beacon, the torch must also recharge before you can take from another source. The crystal should still remain available to other players, this would be another way to supplement some credits without using the harvester or could be used when there's no refinery. On Whiteout the obvious place to mine might be the main cave, the mine shafts on canyon, the tunnels on field etc. The fact that it takes away from combat would be what encourages people not to think they can just mine all game, unless you want to make the extra credits available team wide. If you have something worth sharing, please comment below. The video shows the concept of manually laser mining crystal/ore.

My idea was for GDI to have a support power that allowed for a para-drop from a plane over a designated area instead of say a chinook that would likely get shot down. Similarly I thought Nod could have gliders like shadow teams that did the same and it opens up more options for attacking a base. I think what you're saying could be a nice way to arrive into a map, so long as it doesn't make it look like a battle royale.

I'm expecting Sakura would be waiting to scope you.