Mystic~

Do we need to update manually or will the game update the map for us? Thanks

The fully suited infantry models need to be the default ones used on the Crash Site map for the basic characters.

I agree, I don't want to entirely remove engineers from the game. The situations where it becomes monotonous or frustrating are when the advanced engineer classes aren't available or when you're operating on maps with a lot of distance to cover like Outposts and you can't get the cover from snipers picking you off. I think healing and repairs needs looking at again in general for this game, the fact infantry can't self heal and must also seek out engineers doesn't make much sense in my mind, but there's a medic in the upcoming expansion which is a really nice addition to the game I'd even bring it to present ren, I'm wondering if Nod also has access to this despite faction differences. I still think a drone option for repairs in firestorm is going to be / could be necessary and desirable, I'm predicting the pace of the game is going to be a lot different than present and a repair support power would also be welcome for certain situations.

I sympathise with your Havoc crush miss, but that AT mine was obvious.

Or maybe put everyone automatically into an observer mode and ask them to click or press a key to spawn into the game, this is what other games do.

Sounds like you just implemented my spy satellite.

I did: You could allow engineers entering some vehicles as a passenger and still giving small repairs, this feels like the GDI Marv, but they would have to exit and repair externally for the full benefit, although I don't want to encourage idle players just sitting in vehicles and the enemy team still needs a way to counter constant repairs. My idea is of a drone that is a bit similar to what happens at the war factories in C&C3, a quad-copter hovers around the tank welding plates with an appropriate animation. A different look for this could be some sort of plasma/energy ball that does the repairs, but there's a bit of risk the game starts to feel more fantasy than science-fiction. It's possible an engineer could control the drones doing the repairs from a mobile control terminal and the drones get shot out of the sky instead of the player unless they want to risk it. I like the buff power also as you've mentioned, I suggested this a while ago for the current version, just turn the tanks an emerald green colour for a while and allow it to repair x damage over x time. I even think engineers should now be setting up some sort of tripod repair gun for building repairs, instead of having to stand in front of an MCT for ages, *yawn*, 2-3 of these could be setup in place of the players, who would then be free to either do another engineering task like repairing tanks or even allow them to change class for a bit to provide some sort of fire support whilst defending. From time to time they would need moving, replacing or being setup elsewhere. Absolutely do not want Star Wars type 'droid' AI repairs getting into the game though, this would look so wrong.

I think there's enough video footage of game play already out there to suggest that everything is much faster, hectic and lethal and engineers doing repairs are easily the most undesirable and boring aspect of the game in general, I'm not saying some people don't enjoy doing this role, they do, but not every game is going to have enough of these none combat players enthusiastically repairing tanks and there are things that can be implemented to remove some of the laborious and unnecessary chore work from some areas of the game. It's not just risk of snipers though, it the new tank classes, it's the change in elevations, flying infantry, digging tanks, higher explosive rounds, fast bike/buggy with decent guns etc. Much of existing ren depends on surviving by hiding behind the tank or in cover, which is changed by the new tank profiles, but also the maps are much larger and more open... and do we really want to make it necessary to force so many into a repair role? Constantly listening to "I need repairs", especially when it's just for minor/moderate damage does my ears in and it's frustrating there isn't something one can do to self-heal, at least partial damage. I'm not sure what radio commands will be like in firestorm, but they can't stray too far from the original else it will be too confusing, but these are my predictions, maybe others who have had the opportunity to play it in a competitive game can comment on this side of things.

Firstly, is there going to be a sub-forum opened for discussing the Firestorm expansion anytime soon? Secondly, for my first game point... Vehicle Repairs Having seen some of the game play video, does anybody else have the feeling that the engineer role when it comes to repairing tanks on the battlefield is going to be more redundant or even inadequate for the faster pace of the game and the maps seem much larger now... they seem much less practical than the alternatives. I've not explored if there's a free engineer versus an advanced engineer in this yet, but irrespective of this, I sense repairers are going to be very easy targets for getting picked off by almost anything - a fast tank or gun vehicle, many scoped classes or snipers that deal good damage, more air units etc. This will leave tanks with a much shorter life cycle and possibly without access to repairs and I get a sense that engineers themselves are also going to have a shorter life on the battlefield when they leave cover to move to a tank and there are going to be less of them due to how much distance they must cover. I'm thinking players in vehicles should have access to a repair ability that either calls in a repair drone or puts the tank in some sort of less/or unresponsive mode to heal itself that works on a cool down rather than constant access. Or maybe when not firing for a period of time it activates passive self-repairs equal to that of a standard engineer so another player doesn't need to stand around doing this? The obvious benefits of this are not forcing so many people to take up a really boring support role and having less people need to radio spam "I need repairs", but if enemy tanks do decide to face one another off directly, then players can still support in this way with repairs if they choose and they get the healing bonus and greater chance of winning the fight. I also sense in terms of vehicle repairs it might be a very burdensome task for players compared to the none Firestorm mode and relying on them will only stagnate game play for everyone? It's already really boring in the present version being a tank repair person, but it will be even more boring when people see how much more combat/action there will be in comparison to right now unless they're given some sort of other battlefield role or task to do like setting up gattling/laser turrets, explosive barrels or calling in ammo re-supply drops.

I like some of your points (these): I would support the commander having a bonus rallying effect like some additional armour and health regeneration ability within a certain radius. It would need to be fine tuned so it didn't become over powered or abused and likely change radius depending on whether in tank or as infantry character. It would be nice if the spy plane would just sweep over the whole map by default and pick up everything on the surface level for a period of time. I also support something like a spy satellite or spy drone that gives the commander a moving video feed of what the battlefield actually looks like so they can choose and plan what to do better instead of just relying on seeing red dots. I've supported commander power delegation in the past based on having at least one other senior person who has access to abilities. Like a team commander and then a captain for example. I enjoying watching other game commentaries, it would be nice if there's an easy way to record from an observer mode and explore what's happening on the map, like player tracking and rotating the camera angle etc. I always support the Q function having more contextual awareness - maybe a commander could use it to mark a target building for an assault or team repairs more visibly with an outline. Small additional things I want to be able to see where the commander is on the M map by way of a different shape or colour and if they could become small triangles showing the way players are facing I think might also be useful. If commander calls in something like a cruise missile, I'd really like to see some time meta countdown display on the spot its placed/called on so I can see how many seconds it's going to be before it lands so things can be timed better. I don't think commander should have much to do with mines and harvesters as these are distractions to the role that could be being delegated if there were an expanded set of roles one could assign to someone. A physical E interaction switch on the refinery itself for stop/start and first player to successfully lay 3 mines gets extra mine management tools to remove mines using a context button like Q instead of having to faff around in a menu.

My only suggestion would be to add stairs to the reinforced concrete barriers and arches and add some parapets to the top in each base so it allows infantry to shoot from up there down against approaching tanks similar to Tomb and Walls. Presently on this side tanks and infantry get caught up together and there's little elevation for snipers to shoot down on engineers and enemy tanks get a very narrow choke point to bombard.

1st November

Bermuda triangle intersects at that point

This is my favourite vocal/instrumental, but I'm open to more things like this.

My observations are that Nod mostly wins this map with a Dozer tunnel rush, but people need the economy to be able to afford it, rockets work if it stays clear in the tunnel. If Nod takes the outside route with artillery, lights and occasionally a flame tank backed with repairs, they can repel tank armour easier than GDI can hold ground and torment them from afar. Once GDI has map supremacy from the field with tanks it's very difficult to take it back because they've been likely getting harvester dumps for most of the game and can replenish their tank numbers again quickly. See my thread on manually mining tiberium without a harvester if you want to address the economic disadvantage on maps like this. If a change was made to the map, I would suggest there needs to be more cover at the base entrances like Reservoir and steeper gradients on the hills on the central battlefield to provide earth mounds to hide tanks behind, something lacking on the Nod side.

I like the idea that Nod can get a couple of extra vehicle slots or perhaps that a single mammoth tank might occupy up to 1.5 vehicular slots for GDI as it packs so much firepower into a single unit. Although I'm not against the idea of capping the amount of a single class of tank either, say max 5 mammoth tanks or 6-7 stealth tanks etc so the team must use additional vehicle classes in support so GDI can't steamroll with unstoppable armour.

@Quinc3y Thanks for the feedback, I was definitely thinking of that last Nod versus Nod game during the pug and how stagnant everything was. I have to disagree that mining is not helping the team, it would be helping the team accrue much needed credits when no harvester is viable, and the mechanics of whether or not mining contributed to a global credits increase and how much might be gained is just a particular that could be refined and worked on, I don't see it as a massive change. I'm not suggesting to scrap the harvester in place of people mining with mining guns by the way, it's intended as proposed supplemental or additional way of getting credits in certain situations, it's not intended to be a requirement for each and every game. In the next Firestorm instalment apparently the harvester is going to allow for a driver, some people simply want to contribute more in this way. My bright idea last night was to simply make the harvester indestructible and this could be changed either as a mod or server side setting to test it, but it would greatly change how economic warfare took place during a game as destroying it would no longer be a priority to go after and there would be much more vehicle/infantry skirmishes, which I think is desirable in reality. I think maps that presently send the harvester onto the front line as opposed to a quiet side area are a map design failure also, it doesn't translate well into the first person game. The problem with Field and Under is that most maps are laid out this way, I can only think of maps like Reservoir, Islands and Crash Site where the harvester always remains in the teams base at the back. I have no problems with tweaking how point systems are scored and think this could balance the snowball effect somewhat, but it's no replacement for the whole team getting a big block of credits every couple of minutes, especially when one side always get this and one side never gets this. When people are constantly stuck inside repairing buildings merely for the credits I think it eventually becomes inevitable that side will lose the game as they are on the back foot and hugely economically disadvantaged - I don't think that just bumping up the passive credit rate is going to solve this as it balances both sides equally.

They talked about tiberium creatures in the latest dev talk video about Firestorm development, they were considering it and didn't rule anything out. I don't mind different coloured tiberium, so long as it doesn't come mining for rainbow crystal whilst riding unicorns into battle. Indestructible silos already exist, honestly on some maps they're probably a good idea, but I was still thinking about is there any merit to making people go out and mind it? I was thinking lump sums rather than the way in which they're generated through repairs. I think drones is a nice idea, depends on how they look, less likely to be hit by tanks, but maybe possible to snipe them, does feel a bit high tier tech for the first Renegade era though.

So I've just had a 30 minute play through and this is what I observed. I don't think the Oberlisk or AGT can shoot out far enough to reach tanks? It could be really easy as GDI to lay waste to a few buildings from artillery range and Nod can hit most buildings from most angles also. I felt both bases were now over exposed, more so on the GDI side and I really think GDI needs the whole wall back running behind the weapons factory as that near corner seems a really vulnerable spot to a few things. The side of the base near GDI refinery is very exposed and I think could be very frustrating to defend against... but I'm also mindful that Whiteout you can hit everything from hill and it presents a very challenging thing to hold. On Nod there was an invisible wall blocking the high side route into the base, but I never got chance to try leave via this route when I switched to Nod. On GDI I found there was a missing segment of stairs leading to a wall at the front near the weapons factory. I still really enjoy all the different routes you can take the boulders provide enough cover that flame tanks can become useful again. I think maybe the barns could be placed more centrally within the map, maybe somewhere raised, so players can use them to hide in, snipers, SBH gatherings, intel players etc, would be a bonus if the top level had windows to shoot from or were they to become as large as the barn on L4D and just feature the one, else maybe one either side of the central silo area on the exterior outside edge of the rocks. The tiberium field looked a bit basic, maybe you can add additional patches or extra crystals to some rocks? Whoever created Forest map did a really impressive job with these aesthetic extras for example. It would be a bonus if burning trees and lava patches cause damage to infantry when crossing it on standing near to it. I managed to sneak my hotwire from the left side to the Nod perimeter base over to the refinery by crossing the rocks which I enjoyed, it seemed challenging. I didn't try to sneak anywhere as Nod, but that front weapons factory side seems too easy, Stank with tech, APC with anything. I also thought it was worth mentioning that it didn't feel like a claustrophobic choke point map at all, there's plenty of ways to get into and out of a base, unlike Eyes which only has the two routes, and they're easy to camp with tanks as GDI.

Rush time.

Every single new feature they introduce makes the game more imbalanced and convoluted, but that said, low eco games through total domination of tiberium fields, harvesters and silo structures is a serious problem with the game that turns it into a hot cup of fustration. I think if the core idea is looked at someone would eventually find a way to limit in such a way that it doesn't just multiply a team's existing income if this is what it emerges happens. But credits earned for mining seems fair and it requires man power, but it's especially useful when there are very few odd repair jobs to share and there's a chance of getting something you need so you can upgrade your class etc. I think many people would find this task actually quite enjoyable. The new super money crate for example, this gifts the whole team a small amount, say 100 credits, the only difference this time is that a task is required to be done before getting the money and it's less random than hoping for the right crate.

I liked the holo mine placeholder idea before as it seems intuitive, but if this is too complex for whatever reason, I don't see why there can't be static painted hexagonal spots on the floor inside buildings where you might expect to want mines placed, make them as a yellow outline to match the colour of the mines, extra ones could be painted as suggested spots for extra mines or different combinations. And I personally think the glass in the HoN needs to be re-enforced glass and not just sugar glass, so maybe you have to blast it out with a couple of Sydney hits or an Orca strike before you can invade it from a Chinook. I honestly hope there's something more intelligent than floor mines for the Firestorm Expansion, it has to be either internal turrets or laser fenced off that causes damage. A video showing someone placing 2 mines in a pattern of 3 total would only take a couple of seconds in length to show and this would illustrate the point of needing to defend the entrances, it doesn't need 10 minutes of tutorials.

The main problem I'm trying to solve is still having an economy without a harvester due to a high probability of it being destroyed during a base lock. The team that can maintain their harvester throughout the game still gets a huge economic advantage, they can buy better units and this increases the likelihood they can win, lots of airstrike suppression for example or easily forming a large squad of high tier units. If you're talking about Tiberium Spikes like the columns in Kane's Wrath then I think this tech building needs to wait for the Firestorm expansion maybe, they sound rather similar to the existing silo, and this already exists. I thought being able to mind different coloured crystal was a nice idea, there's already green and blue in at least two maps now, never seen red before in C&C though. If both sides get an extra building or tech structure, this would certainly aid getting credits, its money for nothing, but there's no trade off required to do this, where as I thought if 3-4 players are required to mine crystal placed somewhere, at least work and effort is required to secure it. It's a better income source than a slow credit tick and it can't be easily be blocked by an army giving siege to a base. If an enemy team also spends time trying to manually mine, I wondered if this would be considered attempting to excessively mine and doing so de-tracts from going on the offensive, but it seems like a very useful if not vital game mechanic to have when you are on the back foot or base locked.