Mystic~

I'm going to point out now that this idea was also supported by Roweboat at the time, so I can't understand why you couldn't be bothered to support or justify this after I went to the effort to start the thread discussion? Maybe I took your "idea axed" comment the wrong way, were you trolling or were you suggest this is just fuitile? This concept was originally a suggestion I made of the possible problem of SBH with Rep-tools camping tech buildings on maps like Outposts, where GDI really struggle. Handepsilon and Ex Member - pair of wise arses, there's already a "no" option in the poll, please either add something new and useful to the discussion or don't post. Yosh - I'm disappointed that you barely have anything to contribute to any of my posts on here and yet you're seen as one of the most influential none devs. You want fucking silenced SMGs for SBH? Because why fucking not, that was what you spoke about at the time. It totally changed their dynamic turning them or at least tempting them into becoming silent assassin characters, no idea why this was needed or why this is any more valid than my suggestion of self-healing. Surely SBH must spend an awful lot more time now wasted dicking about looking for enemy players who are typing using team chat to kill, a pretty dirty tactic I have to say given how pub team chat is also vital for good team play. The SBH has special armour, its unique, unique name, stealth tech and I don't see why something like this can't be seen or understood as a type of 'second skin'... maybe it could only heal health to recover fall damage as Tytonium mentioned, I don't remember if fall damage causes armour damage at this point. And since so many people have got all up in arms over an existing feature (read below), then why do we have such things built into the veteran upgrade system anyway if apparently so many don't want it? If game features were decided purely by the mass votes this game would have declined a long time ago as public opinion is not the same as intelligent-adds something really good to the game opinion. https://wiki.renegade-x.com/wiki/Veterancy : "A slow health/armor self-regeneration, 1 point per second, will be applied to the player when they reach Elite rank, and it will upgrade to 3 points per second when they reach Heroic rank." By the logic of some people here "It encourages more passive play", any SBH at Elite level are now hugely prone to passive idle camping and time wasting due to this addition from last year. I'm merely saying this ability should happen earlier at Recruit (or maybe Veteran) a merit of it having special armour type, it brings an existing game mechanic earlier into the game. I didn't propose this just because it has a religious mythical name, but it certainly fits well with the game 'lore' and Nods technological aims and cult like fanaticism. It's a bit like saying mutant characters should be able to heal when in Tiberium and they should be the only characters allowed to do it i.e. ghost stalker, cyborg-commando etc but Ren doesn't have many Tib Sun characters. Why should an LCG have unlimited ammo where as every other character has to return back to base and refill - the same argument you have, which is akin to saying that every character and unit must be exactly the same same as else it breaks balance. Balance is a combination of A-symmetry as well as symmetry. If you want to read about Lazarus, here's the wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_of_Bethany The most pissy-like sceanario I can think of presently with this earlier character ability is that an SBH could potentially repeatedly wait in the same spot killing the same people that kept returning to it, and I'm mainly thinking a sniper bunker on Field but there must be other places on other maps also like Islands water or Tomb Silo. But that said, if an enemy player is going to repeatedly go back to the same spot doing the same thing, then maybe it deserves this for lack of originality. It doesn't take too long before a tank or MRL start force firing onto areas where SBH might be suspected of hiding. An SBH still has average health and weak armour, this fits because it's a fast athletic character that can become invisible, it uses the element or surprise, it doesn't need any better armor stats and this would totally imbalance any existing fire fight exchanges between players, where as healing is just going to mean it can last longer before someone takes it down. If my ideas and suggestions are going to get shut down by really weak arguments and clique-like support from particular forum members or sheep-players that can't be bothered to explain their reasoning or rationale then I'm going to suggest there's a more fundamental problem with the Ren-X community. Maybe this would be a good time to hear why Rype L felt the need to stop contributing to building and developing the game further. Massive frustration perhaps? I don't have asset game development skills, but I've played many games over my life and one of the good thing I know can do is come up with positive suggestions that aren't so ridiculous that they break the game or don't feel right for the universe or type of game. I think the most cool but acknowledged unreasonable suggestion was probably giving the LCG two of the same guns at a Heroic level turning it into a walking tank, although I was drinking gin at the time and it was mostly a fun suggestion; however I'm serious about SBH healing just to how irritating it is and difficult it can be survive both getting into and behind enemy lines in challenging situations.

Dude, I asked for proper feedback, I read your first long massive post and you couldn't even think of even a single credible point as to why this could not be an actionable item for a future patch and now I suppose you're expecting me to read your second giant post? If you'd said something positive I'd have probably quoted or mentioned it but instead you waffled on about many things, some totally irrelevant, you have no good points to make here. I wanted feedback, but I don't want people to deliberately waste my time talking none sense. Unless you have a good point, I'd rather you stop now and let any others that want to have a say on the topic join in. Yeah, I read it. It still doesn't seem to include anything intelligent. Why would I ask for 10% extra armour for an SBH when the whole point was I was requesting auto-healing over time for the SBH. Seriously, you can drop out the conversation now as I'm not going to argue with a moron and you can guess or dream about all the polls you like.

If anything, it should turn Ravshaw into Mutant-Ravshaw, gamma radiation and all that other lethal stuff and I'm sure the tool has a radioactive/nuclear symbol on it somewhere. So hence, maybe a medic class, supply pickup area with med kits, self healing health and armour and so on. Some games have the ability to purchase things like stimulants, pain killers or epipens that either heal or temporarily boost health stats, although Ren's inventory is far more limited traditionally. A health kit like the Left4Dead games might be good imo.

I did think about this scenario, it's what they used to do before when they were weaker and 5 mines were used per door. I think if the mining pattern is close enough nobody would risk inching into them because of risk of dying setting 2 off and I'm not even confident how well they can survive one mine blast presently. I think they would continue to use rep tools and I've suggested somewhere else that maybe the silenced smg should even be replaced with a rep tool to make it an infiltration commando class. Could always bump it's price up slightly to be similar to the cost of an LCG. An SBH without any armour is such a vulnerable target though and I'm sure they already get full armour and health regenerative abilities at Elite or Heroic levels? I need to test this out as maybe I'm imagining it. If not, then someone needs to think of a new name so it isn't called Lazarus 'self-healing armour' that doesn't actually self heal anything. Good! That's what players are supposed to do with them! And it's especially important when Nod gets locked into their base on certain maps and only low armour tanks to try to push out of a siege. Because Mendoza doesn't have Lazarus armour and if it did, it would be a much stronger unit to use than presently and maybe require some sort of game balancing as it could survive and kill many times over until it's ganged up on. The SBH has a relatively weak gun and it's relatively easy to kill one once revealed. Because it's already in the name of the armour and it's special tech armour that is supposed to be unique to that character! If you go on thinking like that you'll be moaning why don't all characters have access to the same abilities? We're talking about a very minor but potentially very useful add-on for the SBH and it isn't really going to make them anymore powerful than they already are, but it is perhaps going to eliminate the ball ache of refilling for health and give it better longevity as a useful infiltration unit that is very likely going to sustain splash damage just trying to reach it's target and more so now games are 30 v 30 and not 20 v 20. And just because they make useful infiltration units does't mean they're not useful for other things. Remember GDI has a massive tank armour advantage and Nod requires use of its tech/stealth to keep its place in the game often, the mammoth versus the ninja. I thought about the idea of what if every class had self healing ability and honestly maybe it's a good idea, but at the moment I'm only pushing for the SBH because it has the name, the special armour and it fits. It's sort of similar to how the LCG has unlimited battery capacity on its gun, even though this is so unrealistic and no other units have this. And if everyone could do it, the sbh would still do it faster. That's exactly how it's supposed to work in theory! You're started supporting my idea now with a really poor counter argument that works against you. I can't think of that many situations where an SBH is going to step in and save you and if someone wants to idle about and do nothing well that's exactly the same risk you have of new players using them presently. I've spoken about the idea of toggle stealth ability by set time duration or even give GDI a special stealth sweep radar style scan, but digressing from the topic. I'm not really seeing any real arguments here for why this shouldn't be a unique feature the sbh... Tyt had a good point but I've shared my thoughts on that already and I don't see why it needs to be a barrier.

Can you not see how much more intuitive and user game friendly it would be for each of the powers to function based on a recharge or cool down period? Would it not be great to have the freedom to think and feel safe that, well hell, I can use a smoke strike and it's not going to cut 400 (or however much cp it is) from the total pool when you're looking for that 1400 for the offensive, which is much more important and you don't have spend ages doing maths sums on the fly to work out what you can and can't use. All of the powers could then be used independently without prolonging how long you must sit waiting around for cp to replenish or going off just to q-spot for points. I understand things like this take work and effort, programming and interface building, but that's a separate discussion. I once managed to destroy a GT with an SBH and airstrike only, not sure if that's the norm or not.

Why is it axed precisely?

@roweboat- your job isn't to try and neuter the male species, you're not a moderator to my knowledge, insults have a valid purpose in language, it's not grossly hostile or offensive and it gets the point across perfectly, so kindly stay out of it. The German to English looks fine, it's a none issue.

Please justify this point, give example(s) if necessary so I can understand or see your point, because I don't agree and if you forgive the bluntness, you three look like you're circle-jerking each other (Reivax and Yosh) by re-posting/quoting the same thing. If a player wants to fanny about wasting time and doing nothing productive for the team, that is their choice and they can carry on doing this with or without the implementation of this suggestion. It's already possible for 2 SBH to heal one another with a rep tool assuming they're doing an infiltration together or a beacon plant. I'm trying to limit the amount of unnecessary silly tedium tasks this game requires and reduce the risk of being killed and spotted before any plan gets into motion. I'm inclined to believe that if the sbh could heal, then an sbh might actually take more risks and do more for the team and perhaps less would be wasted doing things like back and fourth trips to refill health or maybe they don't waste that beacon opportunity through receiving random splash damage and being easily picked off. But seriously, Jesus f—ing Christ I'm starting to think and feel like nobody else gives a damn about refining anything in this game anymore and you can't even be bothered to leave your own comment or feedback. Do correct me if I am wrong on this next point, but do some other characters not already "self-heal" once you become Elite or something like that? Does a Mammoth tank not already self-heal? I have to ask why this tank can, even though it really doesn't need it. Why the hell is the SBH armour called Lazarus armour if it possess absolutely none of these healing qualities inherent to it? Why did the devs bother to implement healing into the veteran points system at all? This must be one of the most rational, sane, easy to implement, slight added benefit and none game breaking positive suggestions presently being put out there.

I picked you out, because you described in part (badly) at least 3 points I've written posts about recently, your commenting seemed very passive aggressive and you didn't even bother to comment or provide feedback on my sbh post. I don't want to be passive aggressive, so thus I'm calling you whiny little bitch to reflect how you're behaving and I'm adult enough to tell you so, it's got nothing to do with self control and I contemplated whether or not to say anything at all. I just don't like you.

I agree with the first part, it's being able to retreat or find cover and then knowing you'll begin to heal over time, not being able to heal instantly or during a fight, which I think would be too unfair. 2 minutes is probably far too long for it to work or be beneficial though, I'm thinking more like 15-20 seconds once out of danger. In most respects, it replaces the need for having another team mate with you with a rep tool to heal. I see the SBH mainly as spy/infiltration class anyway as it's weapon is only so useful attacking head on or when exposed.

I think even more repair guns would make the game convoluted or frustrating, but as Cloverton said, maybe some sort of medic class would be useful to make the role obvious, I remember reading how one of the first modern Wolfenstein games added this class, although I never played the game itself. It can be so frustrating as a wounded infantry player knowing that hotwires/techs are mainly looking for vehicles to repair with tunnel vision and see you second unless you really get in their face. There really ought to be a command voice for "I need a medic!" with a medical cross symbol, but this line is currently just meant to be superficial character chat or like a taunt. Yes, some of us do. Leave your feedback in the corresponding thread (if you care) and don't behave like such a little bitch.

Feel compelled to share this song given the tone of the thread.

I don't like the silenced Uzi, I think this kind of assassination weapon is rather cheap in this game, I'd rather see it replaced with just a rep tool for disarming mines, as most people buy one anyway if they can afford it. The noisy laser is what balances its ability to get to many places undetected and fire the first shots and I'd rather this be its only weapon. Apart from the SBH stealth ability I actually see them as quite a weak unit that is easily killed, I know their stats improved a little with recent tweaks, but not that much. They are of course really useful regardless, but it's such a ball ache when you sustain damage as one, particularly when the battle field is a constant blaze of flying missiles and tank shells exploding nearby renders it much less useful and tunnels are well camped/protected. I think a self-healing ability over time when not engaged in a fight is just another small but significant add on they deserve. The armour is actually called Lazarus armour though, I don't know who gave it that name, but as already mentioned it means to heal or bring back to life. Once a player levels up in veteran skill point levels, I believe it gains this ability anyway as many things seem to self heal, I'm merely proposing it becomes default to this unit even at the basic levels. If you watch the television series Expanse, the elite commandos from the stealth ships have some sort of intelligent armour that repairs or plugs the suit when hit and if you follow other tech armour or games like Mass Effect, players can use suit medi-gel to heal. Even in the Renegade Universe the stealth armour is clearly advanced tech, so it doesn't feel out of place. The more I think about the amount of times you have to run back and grab a refill as any character just because you sustained damage during a fight the more I think Renegade is just far behind the times... I'd rather Hotwires and Techs were for repairing tanks only (radiation gun) and if only there were some other genius way of healing during a game that doesn't detract from tank repairs; but I stick with the sbh request for now. Maybe the repair guns should start dealing moderate radiation damage against an enemy player instead. There were several people who commented this was a good idea before in the other thread, so please vote if you haven't already.

Please read this before voting: In another topic it was proposed that the SBHs unique Lazarus armour (alluding to the myth of Lazarus rejuvenation and rising from the dead) should mean the unit is self healing just like the mammoth tank is, all of the time and even without having to reach higher veterancy milestones to do this. It gives the unit more value and a little longer life expectancy if they get splash damaged by an MRL or they run into a single mine trying to infiltrate into a base, which can be super frustrating... it would be the only unit to my knowledge that could do this without having to rely upon veternacy milestones to do this. If you choose "Other" in the poll option, please expand as to why you chose this in the comments. Edit: Just to clarify, by healing, I'm talking about its health and armour slowly returns to full health once they've disengaged from a battle, not during a fire fight.

I think we could have at least one extra player capable of accessing commander powers, I wouldn't want to give every player access as it would defeat the point of having leadership roles and decision makers. Kira talked about this before by way of a Captains mod, but never heard much more about it beyond the initial post, but maybe it could become something official to look into. When an enemy has the hill and they can use two offensive bonuses one after another, there is not a lot an opposing team can do to stop this. If this were any other game, it would be possible to use an attack power once and then it would go into a cool down period before it recharged and could be used again... maybe you might there after or before apply a defence power if it seemed beneficial, but we have a points system allowing anything to be used multiple times - instead of using a points system, what if we made it a recharge/time limited ability - people could then enjoy using more of the other abilities like cruise missiles, emps, smoke, radar scans without depleting cp and slowing down or jeopardising points that might be needed later for a first rush and risk of running out of points, everything just recharges as a separate ability with cool down period and doesn't cost anything beyond the risk of perhaps wasting it at the wrong moment. Maybe cp instead allows an ability to recharge quicker. I'm basically thinking then you would be able to place a cruise missile and still be able to pull off some sort of team rush and not punish commanders for using more of things like emp strikes, smoke and scans.

I use quite a few of the Alt commands still and think I prefer maintaining positions where possible, but Q spot has replaced the most obvious ones, which was a great innovation at the time. New suggestions that would be really useful and I need to think about the question asked in the poll still: Enemy rush massing Enemy rush incoming + defend the base Building breached, enemy inside Airstrike incoming + take cover Get into position Thanks (this is so overlooked) I don't know anything about where the audio comes from or who has recorded these in the past, assuming there were some new ones made up since original Ren.

I do remember somewhat what the game was like before magical powers were invented and the game still required strategy to win and the powers are not always guarantee of destroying a building even in a game of Under. But I have to say, did you even read my first post? I'm not advocating getting rid of them, I just think it's super lame that in certain circumstances you can apply two offensive powers twice in a row and that maybe they need refining for the game, but it's also tanks on a hill and not just massive infantry rushes. Well this is where my idea of capping number of effected units at around 10 units or players, perhaps enough for an average rush, or having two players on the field capable of accessing the commander menu and applying a powers independent of one another for split tactics. More people could still join the rush, but we might see less of a building being melted in 3 seconds by 20 Mendoza/Mobius etc.

Isn't this the same argument as to why two or more players can't all call in 2-3 airstrikes on a guard tower at the same time? They're spending individual credits rather than team CP. Minor checks and balances like this are to prevent abuse of powers, whilst its their resource to choose how they use, 2 cruises one immediately after another might be too much. Aside: does anyone else think a flare indicating point of a cruise missile strike is just too obvious? As in, there's a 50/50 chance you'll have just wasted 800cp on target that is most likely going to move out of the way... maybe a fine or subtle vertical laser appearing later (due to its guidance system) at the last 5 seconds or something... presently you may as well just paint a giant X on the ground, but obviously does not matter so much if target is a stationary structure. I'm not advocating removing powers, just making it more fair and balanced... it just seems over kill to see 15-20 people all following one person and then having opportunity to apply a very powerful ability, not once, but often now twice in a row. I forget how stale matey games may have been in the past, but even a single use of a power should be enough to break an opposing team. I'm suggesting limiting the number of players that can be buffed at one time, the interval between being able to apply another power (double buff) and distributing powers so potentially more than a single group can use it and operate at the same time - this feels more relevant when the server cp limit is 5000 rather than 3000. I'd much more enjoy seeing two different groups of coordinated players between 5-10 each being able to use a power in a different place - say one infantry and one vehicle and we'd see much more spontaneous play and different strategies beyond the 'big inf tunnel rush', and may even see more use of tactical smoke/emp/cruise missiles. Compared to the past, there's also significantly less beacons being used now and this used to be one of the main ways of winning a game. With things like this in place, the same rushes can still happen, but their potential is capped if you understand me, they are unlikely to be able to melt an entire base externally in one attack and there may still be a chance of countering it. I'm not a fan of tunnels or buildings being camped by tanks or vehicles at all, in fact I wish there was some sort of movement penalty for a vehicle that remained in the same general spot for too long camping an entrance to a building like the barracks or hand of nod on Lakeside or Islands. What if there were at the very least a small wait of something like 5 seconds between uses after the point it runs out - small, but still significant Other games would have user testers to find things like this and identify things that are too powerful in game play.

Yeah, I know. But you can still apply a buff twice in a row, which was the point I was making. There was much more to my post than this. So many games now seem to be won or lost on the basis of powers and who can be the first to successfully rush with the powers. Inf are protected with a shield going to their target, the target is often destroyed (sometimes not) based on the offensive bonus, and then as soon as it runs out it can immediately be switched on again. This isn't always done, but there are times where this happens and I'm wondering if it's too strong, tactically lazy or even 'spammy'... being in a good spot like the bunker on X-Mountain or the plateau on Walls and being able to buff offensively twice with Gunners or Mendoza is super effective. Confronting a GDI tank column that can protect itself whilst its getting in position and then switch immediately to offensive mode makes it almost unstoppable from the Nod point of view due to how much armour they have unless they can hold the field. This was the point of discussing their use, but maybe it needs to be a poll... How about saying you can use x1 offensive and x1 defensive; but not x2 offensive in a row - too much? Or bring about a short cool down period between their use. It depends on cp of course, but some servers don't cap it at 3000. It might also be nice to distribute use of powers between the team, something like squad leaders, so it doesn't always result in or depend upon one massive rush and following the commander, whom can also be sorting out other areas.

I think I was one of the first people to suggest to please get Steppe into public rotation so we can test it, as far as I can tell there have been lots of other maps tested this way, some do get re-worked and tweaked based on feedback from play through and some get approved and make it through into an official patch update; I'd rather the developer, server owner or Ren-X team take responsibility for the decision to include it, not the map designer, but you do surely want map feedback. I'm sad to see someone stop making maps or leaving the game, but I think you just need tougher skin... you quit too easily. I had to download the map also and I think it took about a minute or two extra. It looks really good and I can see you've put lots of time into it, I've only been able to play it once so I can't really give much feedback. It could of course go onto a testing server, but you would not likely get a game and I don't see much enthusiasm for testing custom maps in Sunday PUGs anymore.

This is a post to discuss the balancing of the offensive and defensive commander powers and how they can be used. Is it fair to allow a team to apply two command powers one straight after the other? i.e. Defence bonus + Attack bonus or Attack bonus + Another attack bonus - is this too over powered and does there realistically need to be some sort of cool down timer like there is on airstrikes? Does there need to be a limit on how many players or tanks the buffed power can accommodate? i.e. up to 10 players in a grouped attack rather than say the whole team or a large majority of the team. I wanted to discuss this due to the relative ease or possible unfairness of destroying an entire base externally with infantry, usually Mendoza or Mobius or a building internally by way of many people running in with something like Gunners - it only takes one person to clear mine defences with a shield activated and an MCT becomes a very vulnerable target. Many games seem to be won or lost by these methods now and is there any realistic counter to this tactic... it's especially apparent on maps like Field/Field-X and Islands. What are your thoughts? Thanks

Just add a ladder. ...but seriously, if aircraft and infantry drop on top, how are Nod going to be able to disarm beacons? I can't be fair to let Nod do this, but not let GDI do the same. Thanks for doing a video, bet you could have some good internal fights in there, would be great if there were more buildings that had something more than just a single room with an MCT terminal. I'm guessing now all those large amber/red lights are because you have the model on top of the runway? Could place a key internal light in your design that flashes to suggest keep clear, pending tank build and you'll be crushed if it's anything like the GDI war factory.

The model looks good, it's really detailed; I bet texturing it is going to be hard work. I could see people supporting this being included into maps like Complex, Tomb, Tunnels or maybe Walls?... where vehicles have a habit of being destroyed as soon as they land.

Credits are accrued both individually by completing tasks, killing enemy players, destroying tanks, defending harvesters and holding group resulting in more credits and collectively through team play and I think this needs to be considered. I don't think someone should necessarily have to forfeit everything they've credibly earned if they change teams. I sometimes switch teams out of frustration after somebody makes a real douche bag of a decision against me that affects my disposition towards that team (like being voted out commander by 'the mob') or many in the team withdraw their support to the extent it causes a team fracture/grievance, so I don't want punishing for this either by having credits wiped out. This scenario isn't the same as switching team because "we're losing" or "we just lost a building" and I certainly don't want to be locked into a side, I'd probably quit the game if I couldn't change side at that point. However if a player accrued lots of credits predominantly because of the rest of the team put in most of the effort I'd probably support at least capping the percentage they could take so it didn't overly or unfairly imbalance the game from that point onward. 75% of total perhaps?