j0g32

Nice, very colourful for a snow map

How can you spawn Bots of a certain class (via Kismet) ? In Black Dawn, your squad (Gunner, Hotwire, McFarland etc.) are spawned at "notes"/pathnodes via Kismet, and their health and ammo is set to "godmode". But I couldnt yet figure out where the character type is set, such that HUD (and possibly stats) would be updated. There is only one Rx Pawn class available, so I tried switching the skeletal mesh but that doesn't work. Or perhaps is there some other function that can be called on the bots/pawns via execute command, e.g. similar to when you buy a new class at the PT? Thanks!

Team-based cooldowns are difficult to begin with: similar to an ion/nuke beacon, players buy an Airstrike on their own, with a certain plan in mind. I find it very annoying when I cannot use the airstrike that I bought, only because someone else used theirs (anywhere on the map), which is entirely out of my control. The laser-targetting takes time and exposes you, and in many cases an incoming airstrike is noted before it hits. Also there is substantial time between calling in and striking, allowing the enemy to evade/avoid major damage. Buying/using an airstrike is thus a risky endeavour with limited chances for success, where timing can be crucial. I think it's good thr way it is, 30sec. can be a very long time when a defense/siege line is about to break, and you just need airsupport right now...

we're working on it

How about getting back to the "How-to: C&C mode" loading screens, but also with the Mininap overview of the current level ?

Nice, finally I understand the layout ^^

Yes, I agree with you - we could even have multiple sidekicks, but this might get too messy. How about using Patch for Logan (similar look), and Deadeye as his sidekick. These two characters do not appear in the original tutorial at all, and I don't even know, what Patch's voice sounds like... ^^ Or as I said, use a generic GDI officer for Logan, and a soldier as sidekick. Or while we are talking about reskin, perhaps even Raveshaw - he looks very "General-like"... Also, I wouldn't bother that much about animations to be honest, at least for now. Firstly, in Black Dawn there are already some conversational animations, which we might use, but I have the feeling that they can only be used on skeletal meshes, not on AI bots directly. Possibly, we have to create custom Pawns for this anyway... Secondly, looking at the player, or to one another, could be compelling enough for a conversation: e.g. when Logan is talking, Logan himself is looking at the player, and the sidekick is looking at Logan, and vice versa. I think, this is how the conversation between McFarland and the GDI squads is done, after they have secured the beach head and split up to destroy the SAM sites. update: I have "kismetted" the obstacle course with sound and subtitles - maybe I can show you a video soon cheers

This is just about minor (irrelevant?) cosmetics: The cubemap for environment reflections is just made up of 6 sky textures, and not an actual cubemap reflection of the level or any generic environment.

Update: I added some more path nodes in the base, and the movement now seems to work better (eventhough I freeze him anyway - perhaps the AI goes mental, if it has no path (in theory) to get to buildings?) Also, I discovered that you can add subtitles for sound cues directly, just open the sound cue editor from the content browser; there are options for subtitles and timing! Unfortunately, it's the standard UDK/UT3 font, but it's something and better than EVA logs/announcements Until i can extract the original soundfiles, i will just audiograb them from a video as placeholders to work with.

Or how about like 3 zoom levels? 1) current minimap 2) 50% zoom (=double the distance?), same scaling for unit icons. 3) global (rts/M-map) with blips only. Which could betoggled with "." For example. I think compressing the whole map into the radar would also compress the information that can be displayed comprehensively, e.g. all units (infantry and vehicles) become blips only.

Meh, I couldn't find my Renegade installation CDs at home. Does somebody else have original Renegade installed, and could extract/upload the soundfiles? :-) Perhaps, we could also introduce a "sidekick" character, who follows the player or guide, and explains the new RenX bits where necessary? What else do you think should be covered in a tutorial? That way we can still reuse the original content/concept. Since most of what I am having in mind has been done one way or the other (kismet or uscript?) In RenX or Black Dawn, I thought it would be helpful to ask those involved, if they would be able to hint at how these things were done, or which resources they used for learning? - Scripted AI movement (movetoactor? Lookat? but doesnt seem to work with RenX Bots - different AI ?) - Spawn specific AI characters - (Optional: let NPCs do animations) - Conversation subtitles (i figured how those sounds are played via kismet, but I dont see how the subtitles are displayed?) - Tooltips (See e.g. kenz's video for custom PurchaseTerminals and Helipads or the one about MCT; is there also a placeable object, or a volume, which allows to show tooltips? Or can they be triggered via Kismet?) - perhaps, also how to check for mine/beacon placement, e.g. currently you cannot place fake beacons close to your base... this should be disabled, because you are asked to place an ion cannon beacon in the firing range ^^ But honestly, that's about it ^^. As I said, most of it has already been implemented, so it's not rocket since :-P Yes the script/story will dictate everything else, but im themeantime I would love to fiddle with the technicalities ;-)

Yep, I am currently trying to type the script (essentially subtitles) of the original tutorial. Then we can see which character says what and if we could reuse some of the snippets. It appears, that there should already be some kind of script in the game, because without this reference on the wikipage, I wouldn't have known, how to spell "Vervack Commando Elite Falcon Pistol"... http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Falcon_pistol#cite_note-0 Anyway, so basically, I imagine a structure very close to the original one (new RenX bits in green) Obstacle course movement: WASD, jump, sprint, (stamina), crouch, ladders communication: interacting with equipment (E), Q-spotting / short commands (instead of E) ? , CTRL + ALT commands? objectives: from the SP campaign = orders from MP Commander mutator ? Adv. Guard Tower automated defences, i.e. AGT and Obelisk, need energy supply - if PP is destroyed they will shut down ? Health and Armour (personal) engineers/technicians can also heal mention that similarly, buildings have exterior armour and "integrity" (=health), where only armour can be repaired, "but we'll cover it later" Radar (minimap) and Tactical map (M-key), though symbols are different, no indicators for MCTs... Barracks & Firing Range process recruits (= access to infantry classes), Nod has Hand of Nod reticle colouring, dot/crosshair (especially relevant for tanks)vetc. targeting brackets and info headshot multiplier (= more damage) Weapons: pistol (unlimited ammo), sniper (+scoping, but applies to all weapons), automatic rifle, rocket launcher (+ lock on), remote C4 (plant & detonate), Ion Cannon beacon (explain how to disarm enemy ones, also C4) different weapons use different types of ammunition, [optionally] come back later and use the firing range to play around with different weapons on different targets Weapons Factory Vehicle Production (=access to vehicles), Nod: Airstrip if destroyed, only emergency vehicle-airdrops driver & gunner (all others are passengers) controls and test drive around the base: Humvee "squishing", Medium Tank engineers can repair vehicles Refinery Tiberium processing, generates (steady) income Tiberium harvest, (brings in more money when returns from field) TIberium is dangerous to human tissue Tiberium can be stored and enriched in Silos, also generating income (indirectly hints at capturing a silo) Power Plant Base needs to power, otherwise buildings shut down and do not function specifically tell that due to inefficiency production costs for weaponry and vehicles rise, and main automatic base defences are offline keep Powerplant intact Nod Attack Mobile artilleries approach on a hilltop behind the southern gate and bombard the powerplant Tell the player to call out that the powerplant needs repairs, and to defend the base (Q-spotting and CTRL + ALT commands) Player has to defend the base, by attacking from the gate/walls. He will be given binoculars to call in airstrikes and break the siege Eliminate all remaining Nod infantry, esp. Officers how call in support (outside the base) Base Operations Return to base, and notice that artillery damage was sufficient to break the armour and permanently damage the power plant MCT is the heart of every building, player has to help repair the armour of the powerplant. if a buildings integrity (health) is 0%, it is permanently destroyed and cannot be rebuild, remind to keep building armour intact to prevent permanent damage Player has to secure the base by placing mines into the tunnel (place mines in strategic choke points, such as building and tunnel entrances) mention to watch out for Nod stealth units (which are still detected by automatic base defences though) Economy & Gameplay Goals: defend your base while destroying the enemy base gather (personal!) income (credits) from Tiberium processing and harvest, and from damaging enemy units or repairing allied units credits are used to buy and produce infantry equipment, vehicles, and superweapons at Purchase Terminals coordinate your attacks and prioritise your strategy, e.g. cutting power, vs disabling vehicle support as you gain combat experience on the battlefield you will be promoted, which allows you to deal more damage with higher rate of fire (veterancy system) Now you are good to go ! Free Skirmish Play local hints are given when the player reaches certain locations or aims at certain units/buildings, examples Tiberium SIlo: capture to generate additional income communications centre: capture to gain intel on the enemy's positions Back / sneak entrance / tunnel: try to infiltrate the base, use smoke grenades to cover your advance, main entrance: only brute force with heavy armour, vehicles and numbers allows to break through enemy lines preplaced enemy mines: use EMP / repair tools to deactivate Attack the Harvester to weaken Nods income Destroy Powerplant to cut base power, which shuts of Obelisk, and disturbs production by increasing prices Destroy Hand of Nod, to cut Nod supply of advanced infantry equipment including stealth and technicians Destroy Airstrip to cut the supply of Nod vehicles Destory Refinery to weaken Nods economy, no tiberium processing no harvesting Destroy obelisk to allow your teammates to attack the Nod base

Thanks, @Ruud033 - any help is greatly appreciated! As I said, I would start off with the concept from the original Tutorial, as most of the stuff is still very relevant especially for beginners. In fact, I will try to write a script of the (original, and perhaps some unused) soundfiles. And then we can see which of the phrases we can reuse, or where we might want to cut and glue some of the sound snippets together^^. I will post this separately. Some additional features that can be "easily" incorporated with a simple task for the player, and some more "broad instructions": Mines: Let the player mine a tunnel entrance to the base (between the to gates, behind Ref and WF) "Secure the base by using mines to prevent scouts from sneaking around unnoticed. Mine supply on the battlefield is limited - therefore mines should ideally be placed in choke points, such as tunnel or building entrances." Airstrike: "We are being sieged by Nod Artillery! Call in airstrikes!" (aim from the concrete walls next to the gates) Tech-Buildings: "We need a stable source of income to purchase and produce weaponry. Capture (and defend!) the silo to generate additional income for your team." Q-Talk/Spot: "Give orders by aiming at an objective (or an ally) and pressing Q. Tell the soldier to follow you " ... Later, (after Artillery siege?) call for help to repair damaged buildings, e.g. powerplant. Sprint/Stamina: "Practice walking around - meet me in the next section when you are done" - (At the very beginning) Just show a Tooltip to use Sprint, and instruct the player to use a switch to open the door, however it automatically closes after 5 secs. The player can only reach the gate from the switch within those 5secs if they use sprint... ... I have adjusted the whole layout to the original mesh, kudos to @Henk And I have started to flesh out the first section, the obstacle course. The dimensions are the same, but I changed the look and feel of it - a bit inspired by CoD ModernWarfare 2 tutorial level (The Pit). The idea is that Havoc was dropped of by a Chinook (on the helipad in the background), and enters the obstacle course from the fence-gate. The climb-the-ladder and jump-to-the-next-crate challenge is now more difficult: 1) you have to crouch to enter the area, and 2) the jump is more difficult, I barely make it on first attempt. I have also started fiddling with the dialogues, based on what I could recover from the Black Dawn Kismet scripts: I got to spawn a RenX AI Pawn (named Logan, though I cannot change the character model) and after playing some random dialog cue, the door opens and he runs to another PathNode. However, I cannot get him to stay there even though I froze him... instead he is running back and forth on the walkway, until he gets lost and suicides... I guess a problem here is that the RenX Pawn AI uses a built in C&C-mode pathfinding algorithm to autonomously buy vehicles, navigate to the enemy base and attack. Also one thing I was looking forward to, was to use some of the Black Dawn animations from the dialogues, including leaning on rails etc. but this does not yet work. Guess the Kismet node PawnAnim only works for animation sequences that are already assigned to this Pawn class... So, if anyone has some more experience about adding scripted AI, and playing custom animations for pawns - your advice would be highly appreciated After writing the script from the original Renegade tutorial, I could draw the whole thing (plus new features) and storyline on an overview map. Cheers

Yep, exactly, maybe there is some snippets from the campaign that might be useful. Guess, I have to reinstall Renegade on my laptop when I get home next week^^ I don't see, why EA and Renegade IP is again a topic here? Or is intellectual property rights different feom copyright? Black Dawn uses dialog sounds from orig. Renegade, especially from the tutorial... "Gunner! What you got for me?" etc. I would just do it in the same way, and therefore stick to the setup of the original Tutorial

Thanks again @Henk - reimported the original Mesh: just had to tick "Combine Meshes" ^^ Though, I will try to get rid of some of the "cliffs" all around the base. @CoreDefender yes, we do not have all of the characters, but they could easily be replaced; e.g. a generic GDI Officer instead of Logan could be leading you around the base. Instead of Petrova, an engineer could explain how a powerplant works (would require new sound files). And Lt. Maus only introduces "base destruction", and the simulated "Nod attack", which would be different for this map anyway, so we would not have to worry about her. Yet, we might need someone else to explain more about C&C mode etc. with new soundfiles, obviously. Initially, I thought of reusing as most of the content/concept as possible from the original Renegade Tutorial - for the sake of nostalgia, but then again, RenX Devs have worked hard to improve on the original's shortcomings. So, I am really excited to see your take on this @Madkill40 Hm, ... I am not a huge fan of EVA-online instructions. I always felt that following Logan and going back and forth to Gunner to pick up new guns was rather engaging, and I would therefore like to keep it in a similar way. I will keep you posted!

Thanks for your feedback guys. Yes, obviously it would be great to have sound (but also text boxes to read along), similar to Black Dawn Campaign. In fact, I was thinking of using sound snippets from the original Renegade Tutorial - guess you can extract them with XCC mixer or something like that... However, some of the bits such as sprinting, tech buildings, airdrops Building Armour vs. Health, etc. are really important for gameplay would have to be recorded anyway. If all the new features in RenX can be explained comprehensively by a single "Character" in the Tutorial, that would be great. Yet, it would make much more sense to explain the new features within the same category (where they belong), e.g. Tiberium Si'lo when you go the Refinery, Airdrops when you visit the Weapons Factory, etc. In such case, we would have to redo the whole dialogs for all characters. Hence, @Madkill40's acting skills can be employed in any case. Unfortunately, I could not find the overview of this map - although I am 99% I sure, I once found all the SP level overviews (from w3d) and imported it into the map as an overlay. And the MP version I could not find either... So I started with a screenshot from the iname "tactical" map to get the dimensions roughly correct. The map will not be a 1:1 copy of the original level, but rather a modern re-interpretation, e.g. the "prison-like" area where you spawn, will be made out of hesco barriers, sandbags and fences (Prefab-Kit *yay*). This should be an area where "new recruits" arrive and have to master an obstacle course. I will probably also add an entrance to this prison As the barracks in RenX does not have back doors, the shooting range will be turned 180 degrees - this is more sensible in general, because you are not shooting INTO but rather OUT OF the GDI base. Thanks @Henk for the fbx file! I have never imported FBX before, but it seems to have split up into small bits - I will check later. This tutorial (series) explains some rudimentary AI "Kismetting", but the most interesting bit for me was that it is possible to trigger Animations for Pawns (crouching after being hit)

Some recent comments from new players have pointed out that a tutorial would be helpful... And as you may know I am always keen to start fiddling with a bit of extra flavour to the box-standard C&C gamemode^^ Anyway, I had recently started to recreate the first GDI Mission in Tiberian Dawn, with the intention of including some tutorial objectives, such as capturing a silo, defusing mines such that troops from the beach can advance etc. However, to get this polished with sound etc. this would probably be too much work just for tutorial... So, I was thinking of recreating the Tutorial Map of the original Renegade, and I think there was even playable a multiplayer version with a Nod base... somewhere on the internet. I realise that @TK0104 based his map on this tutorial Map as well, however, without actually any Tutorial functionality. If I find some screens or download the MP-version of the Tutorial Map somewhere, I will post them here, but the idea would be as follows: Recreate the tutorial from orig. Renegade, hopefully with some of the old soundfiles, including Bots that the player has to follow and listen to their instructions. (Similar to Black Dawn). Some of the stuff like key cards, secondary objectives etc. are irrelevant, but (new) features in RenX will have to be introduced on top of that (capturing tech buildings , buying chars/vehicles, defusing beacons, building health/armour, air strikes...) The Map would be the MP Version (if I can find it somewhere), which means that after the "basic" field and base instructions are over and the "simulated" Nod attack would start (see orig. Tutorial), the player is just free to go and can continue playing the map as skirmish, ultimately destroying the Nod base. Some strategic hints can be randomly shown, or location triggered: Attack the powerplant to disable base defences and increase purchase prices for your enemy. Destroy the harvester to prevent the enemy from gathering resources. Capture and hold the Silo to generate additional income for your team. ... Maybe all bots that are not "Tutorial" Characters can just continue playing normal MP C&C in the background. This map doesn't necessarily have to be balanced for both teams, as it is just to make the player familiar with the gamemode and its features. It should however resemble a classic multiplayer map in ter to showcase how the gamemode works, but still there should be enough guidance for the player with some scripting. Does anyone have any experience if something like that might be feasible - and even desirable to develop? Cheers

Imho, the only interesting point I see here is to shift the solo-building kill ability to the more costly commando - and thats a good idea! But for that very reason I wouldn't give him a more versatile weapon on top of that! In Tiberian Dawn the commando had a one shot sniper which is good against infantry but not against vehicles. I would stick to that - instead of turning him into an alround damage dealer with a tac rifle etc. However I personally never liked the ramjet rifles... either cause of the design/size/sound, or because I am just bad sniper :-P

Yisssss, please LET US make it happen! But this can only be a community driven effort, step by step: We already have map-overview ingame and Commander-Mode mutator with UI! Squad systems (for TS) have also been discussed to organise PUGs. Now, we "only" have to merge these features and ideas to get there! Dynamic basebuilidng could then be another step... Besides UDK (or UE4) is somewhat open-source and everyone can contribute with bits!!! Just look at all the cool custom maps and mutators our community has created! I wouldnt worry that much about IP and making money. So far, people have contributed their time just for the love of the franchise.

Although I find it sometimes annoying that the whole aircraft is turning when I just want to make sure that I can land safely, or whatever - I also think that it is important for gameplay to have visual feedback for enemies where the player is currently looking at. One of the classic flaws of 3rd person camera is that you can hide behind a corner while still observing what is going on in the tunnels. Or if an engineer is trying to C4 your tank from the side. Analogously, if you see an Orca/Apache patrolling in the sky when you try to sneak into a base, you need some indication of the players field of view (at least roughly) so that you can choose the right moment to rush in unseen... Overall, I would love to see a restriction on 3rd person cameras - also in vehicles - maybe without HUD in 3rd person view, but that would be a different topic... Besides, I thought you can TURN your vehicle with mouse, but STRAVE (i.e. move left right without turning) using A/D? This used to be more complex in old Ren with CTRL+A/D...

Yes, make playerlimit map specific, or add different mapversions depending on playercount. E.g. block/add new routes as in Field/Under Redux. Would love to see epic 64 player battles but not on bottleneck maps... See good old battlefield 2 which offered 16,32,64 Map layouts

On a similar note, perhaps playing similar mods/games (or completely different ones?) with the whole RenX community every now and then might give some inspiration for new map ideas or gamemodes? I feel that community development is somewhat stuck... Genrally, we could be learning from other Dev/Communities - what they did well, and what not - and then flesh out RenX strengths and polish its weaknesses. And I dont think that the current "hardcore" RenX community would migrate/split to a different game/mod due to this, but rather try to bring good experiences that they like in a different game, to RenX in some sort... Says me, who's never attended a regular PUG though :-P

Love the look and layout of this map - somewhat refreshing^^ Great work!

Many thanks for starting the topic! Gameplay and Balance is such a crucial feature of each "unique" map. Especially for RenX with its complex gameplay mechanics. I guess, we should encoruage all New Maps to be played in an ugly blocked out state only, before any details are added. Like in a professional studio^^ One observation about some classic RenX maps: although it is highly unrealistic that GDI and Nod built their bases back to back (Under,Field,Islands) this creates the possibility to connect bases with tunnels, while vehicles have to go around in a large "C" (arch). This gives infantry a kind of speed bonuses and does not make it too boring to attack the enemy base, once friendlyWF/Airlstrip is lost... You will find sth. similar in other classics, e.g. walls, hourglass/whiteout, where the infantry can shortcut through the middle and vehicles have to go around Basically the infantry routes should be shorter than the vehicle routes and you should be able to transition between those routes on the battlefield. Yet, I myself am still struggling to come up with a good layout that takes these considerations into account ^^

Yes, good idea - actually I could delete the fences entirely, as they should already snap with the regular fences-prefabs... Also, the collision for the tunnel is only one sided - needs some more fixing. @Ruud033 thanks for the detailed help! Haven't checked any multiplayer functionality yet. Hmmm... I have already tried to use hard attach, but when placing the Prefabs and aligning them to the grid, the hard-attached objects were offset...(See earlier post) Don't know when I find the time to update the kit...