DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr

That's better, a proper refutation, finally. Ok fair enough. Still, did you play test in a 32v32 environment? Also, a "chain" of reactions? Naw, I'd say only one thing would come up: like you say, early game dominance. There is one easy and simple way to counter that - TOW missile Humvees, just like what was done in OG Renegade. Think about it, at $550 with homing rockets the TOW Humvee can take out those bikes cheaper than the medium tank could. With the TOW Humvee GDI has a fast early game equivalent to the bike. As for vehicle limits that's a non issue. A bike instead of a buggy is the same as an APC instead of a buggy, kind of. As for late game, consider a proper functioning SSM Launcher with two rockets like this one: This unit is more lore accurate than a heavy tank, which is Red Alert. The SSM Launcher is the second unit that was in C&C1 that Westwood could not implement fully in Renegade due to time constraints. On bigger maps, in theory this thing could punch holes into mammoths from a greater distance than the artillery could, completely out ranging the mammy, and it could decimate repair teams camping behind the mammoth with the sheer splash damage of it's napalm missiles, forcing GDI to send out some TOW Humvees or flank it thru tunnels with rocket troops to try to pick it off. I'd imagine the SSM functioning similar to the V2 in A Path Beyond, only with two weaker missiles instead of one stronger missile, and for balance sake, it should probably not out range the AGT and Obelisk like it does in the OG Command & Conquer game. You know what would be awesome? Have the SSM Launcher have left click be firing the left missile and right click fire the right, with separate reload times, so a skillful driver could time his shots consecutively. Ahh the possibilities. Respect to your dev team but I think you guys are missing out here with the bike. Follow through with your original idea of implementing it fully, at least only for quick public test purposes. Waste not the newly made unit.

Now now, there's no need for you to be a f a g. If you'd actually read everything that's been presented, you would have to admit that all of the nay sayer replies so far have been ill founded; half of them don't even realize that we're talking about a different unit entirely. It's uncanny how slow they all are to realize they have next to no experience on what they're trying to argue with. A small bunch of detached slow pokes voting in a poll together who don't represent the player base because the majority doesn't use forums anyways? Naw. Just implement it and see if it works. If anything it'll make the modeller feel even more proud - it's a great rendition of the OG Recon Bike. A shame it wont see mainstream play because of... well, nothing really. Because of a couple of dum dums. Sorry I'm being harsh, but this is getting tedious. It is what it is, a new addition. Try it out. You might like it. And if it's truly upsetting the balance? It'll be removed. I respect your strong urges to protect your current meta. You have every right to state your feelings.

As the hard data shows here in this thread, more than half the people voting no have no clue what they're talking about; no the Recon Bike is not as powerful as the Attack Cycle, no the Recon Bike is not any better or worse than the Attack Buggy, no the Recon Bike is not over lapping anything, no the Recon Bike is not just adding something for the sake of adding because it's a legacy unit always intended to be a part of, and no your meta games will not change. Your poll won't figure things out, this thread will. Anonymous internet polls never work anyways. Have you not learned from Mountain Dew's example?

True, those missiles are slow, and I didn't know they didn't lock on to infantry. In original Renegade they did, and were fast enough to pull off headshots no problem, just lead your target, etc. Hell yeah! The Bikes are also useful late game in a similar manner; they can't carry passengers but they can move waaaaay faster and help support tank columns better with their anti armor rockets and fast repair potential; being a technician you zip around the field hopping out to rep tanks then moving on to the next in no time. Great for maintaining field presence.

Do you THOROUGHLY READ ME? I already told you, GDI can counter a bike just as easily as they can counter a buggy, so you have no actual argument against the Bike. You just don't like it. Which is a shame, but fair. As they say "Don't fix what ain't broke," even though that's not what we're proposing here. You are entitled to your opinion. However I think I've done a good job presenting facts which assure next to nothing will change for your playstyle, and it will open up the sandbox for regulars. Remember, nowadays on servers like MPF and Rencorner, original Renegade actually does have the bike implemented, even in the original maps. Although Rencorner never went as far as adding them to their original maps; they only had the bike implemented in a few custom maps. You wanna know the reason why they didn't want it added to all the maps? Because a vocal minority who frequent the forums more than they do the actual game said no. Looking at you Vandal, lol. It's not like it would affect their playstyle, because most of them are perma noobjets, which are MORE than efficient in taking down bikes. Anyways, sir wellington? You're worried over basically nothing. But I digress. Heeeey that was you who I gave the Bike to after I was done with it. Yah talk about PRECISION; you have to turn by tapping the directional key instead of holding it, like tap, tap just to nudge over to the left while going full speed, tap, tap just to nudge over to the right, 'cause if you hold it down for more than a millisecond BOOOOM you be suicide sharp turning and then the camera goes crazy and yah you're fucked lol I like biking IRL. FYI The Brotherhood of Nod is not abbreviated, hence Nod is not in all caps; it's not NOD, it's Nod. THE MORE YOU KNOW. Now lets go bitch slap GDI with our fancy new bikes. Yah man quoted for truth - the unit is equivalent to a mainline purchasable Nod vehicle, and the controls are not bad per say, they are just tricky, hard to use. I'm glad you're having more success than I did, though I've only tested it once, and very briefly. It's never been a need. It's always been a want. I'm pretty confident this simple addition, probably the easiest-to-implement out of all the other proposed ideas, will not adversely affect anyone's playstyle. Although it's role is comparable to an Attack Buggy, it doesn't overlap the Buggy, it has it's own unique playstyle, which I don't think many of these nay sayers (you included) have ever experienced before, and that's why they're strident in saying nay. So that's where I come in and say from experience: addition of the Bike really doesn't change much at all, we've balanced it in original Renegade so we can probably balance it in Renegade X, maybe even for all the maps. Since all maps have Buggies, all maps might as well have Bikes, so long as the Bike can't get into tunnels and other odd areas , etc. Again, a concern such as this is rendered moot, because the same concern applies to the Buggy/Humvee as well. Are not Buggies of little to no help in the late game too? No offense bud, but this is another non-issue taking up a decent chunk of space; the late game dynamics are irrelevant and would be 95 percent unchanged with the addition of a Bike. Now, the addition of the Surface to Surface Missile Launcher, that beast of an artillery unit which Nod had in C&C1 and even in original Renegade. That motherfucker could definitely spice up the late game. https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/SSM_launcher_(Tiberian_Dawn) What are you, new? Get headshots! And of course you can run people over like nobody's business, once you master them turning controls. Rockets be killing infantry just as good as they did in original Renegade, plus they lock on. The bike is an early unit too, just like the Buggy and APC - it costs the same as an APC. And yes, definitely keep the buggy alongside the bike for all maps because the bike ENHANCES THE BUGGY! Bike/buggy combos are awesome. I've had some good times driving a bike with a teammate driving a buggy, and we supported our Light tank columns and Artillery hopping out for repairs, then squishing Hotties and soldiers, and rocket sniping buildings, tanks and infantry (HEADSHOT) the buggy helped me mop up stragglers while I helped the buggy take out tanks. And when the stealth tanks and flame tanks went in for a target, we'd be right behind them to help put the finishing blow into a building and mop up any stragglers. It was hilarious lol and truly the epitome of Nod's guerilla warfare style. That's what we WANT, and, I guess as an extension of want.... need. You'd be missing out by denying a simple addition out of (whats comparable to) superstitious fear. Toxcicity's official release page incorrectly calls them Recon Bikes instead of Attack Cycles so I understand your confusion. I too wish for the Recon Bike to be balanced. And GDI could get an equivalent unit, in the TOW missile Humvee! Now this unit wasn't officially made by Westwood, but it's a simple manner of taking the Humvee model and replacing it's machine gun with a rocket launcher. Modders did it in the original Renegade - Nod had the Bike at $500, and GDI had the TOW Missile Humvee at $550. I like GDI too, I wouldn't mind seeing them get a new unit too, a new toy to play with. It would appease fans complaining that Nod has too many units compared to GDI, and again, like with the bike, the TOW Humvee wouldn't change the meta game very much at all. It's a win win - nobody's playstyle changes drastically and we all get new toys. Whats not to like? VOTE YES ON PROPOSITION 208

@DenWellingston lol what are you so confused about? Do you not speak English? Actually that would make sense, lol. Ok, get your translator out: Any weakness the Bike has is the same weakness the Buggy, Humvee, and even APC have. Meaning your concerns are moot, because you already know how to take out the APC and Humvee, therefore, you'll do just fine taking out the bike. Anyways, I just got my hands on a Recon Bike. I was playing on the map called "Field", with 24 players, and a team mate gave me his so I could test drive it. lol, the controls need to be fine tuned. As it is, it takes PRECISION to drive expertly, maintain zig zag pattern at full speed to avoid locked-on rockets. You make one wrong turn and you're dead, and the sprint doesn't seem to work, except when going down hill, so you're not even able to go as fast as you should be. Also, the rockets reload time is slow, and you only shoot a single salvo from both pods I think, instead of two rockets per pod, although I could be tripping on that one detail, cause I didn't get a chance to fight very much, I had to run the fuck out of the way and not get hit by all the artillery. In theory, it's possible to do some damage with this thing in it's current state, but it takes skill. Which is a good thing. So again, if anything, the bike needs to be buffed slightly. Stop worrying Duke Wellington, you'll be fine.

Alright I just got my hands on one. I was playing on the map Field, I'm on Nod, and one of our guys gets it from a crate, brings it back to base, and gives it to me for a test drive. LOL, it is wonky as FUCK, and it's not very powerful at all, what with the slow reload time and slippery-as-hell turn rates. I dunno what you're talking about. In order for this Recon Bike to be powerful, the driver needs to be an EXPERT, so that's fine, it's not OP by design, in fact it has a steep learning curve. Seriously, make one wrong turn and BOOM! You are done, stuck up a wall. The thing's turn rate is soooo sensitive. While accelerating, you just need to tap the directional key once; don't hold it down for more than one millisecond because then the bike turns around waaaay too far. Then there's turning without accelerating, which is in it's own category of sensitivity, lol, it's like two different worlds. And the fucking camera, my god, first person and 3rd is just out of control..... did we drive the same thing? There's no way in hell the Recon Bike in it's current state can adversely affect the current meta game, so you have nothing to worry about. There are plenty of counters to the bike, all of which are applicable to the buggy as well; anything that kills the buggy good kills the bike good. Don't stifle a new idea. That just leads to nothing. Yes Nod has always done cloak and dagger stuff in the original Renegade game and in the other C&C games; again, the bike was supposed to be in the original game. The only thing to worry about with the Recon Bike is if it becomes too efficient at early game rushes - say you mass 10 bikes to hit the AGT, well by that time GDI should have tunnel rushed and c4'd a building or two. Amassing those bikes was equivalent to amassing light tanks, just 100 bucks cheaper, less armored and less powerful, but faster. Again, not much will be changed. Or your money back

@Carlos_Mendoza Answer teh question

What the hell are you talking about? There's nothing to compromise; the gameplay you've come to know and love will still be intact. lol I dunno why you'd say Ren X is NOT Renegade, because it certainly is. Original Renegade has featured balanced bikes for years now. Renegade X has everything original Renegade has plus all kinds of cool new shit. You really think a Bike is gonna disrupt anything substantial? Come on. Look, your only real issue with the bike is that you think it will be over powered like how the Tiberian Sun Attack Cycle is. For the last time chum, the Recon Bike is not nearly as powerful as the Attack Cycle. They are two different units from different timelines - The Attack Cycle is from the future so of course it's gonna kick your ass, whereas the Recon Bike is modern day. It's just a bike with rockets, with no fancy shielding or anything, so aim well and you'll kill it quick. Oh and strafe hard so you don't get run over. If I'm wrong the devs will just take the unit out, but for god's sake, give it a chance at least. I'm not omniscient (NOT YET) I just know Command & Conquer, probably more than you and most of the rest of the nay sayers here. 1 There is nothing to get off track. The Recon Bike is part of the classic assortment of vehicles. 2 "The motorcycle itself from the era of Tiberium Dawn" Yes, that is the unit we are talking about... lol. 3 SO DOES THE ATTACK BUGGY. Non issues. Look pal you can go in circles all day, the facts remain - any issue you have with the bike is equally applicable to Buggies and Humvees and even APCs. Therefore, the meta game will remain largely unchanged despite the inclusion of bikes, one more light vehicle. You will be fine. And if not, we'll take it out. But we got to at least test it out.

I got a feeling the guys who voted no are either Steven Universe fans or are under the assumption that the Recon Bike is the same thing as the Attack Cycle. FYI it's not! It's not nearly as powerful.

By that logic you might as well take out the Buggy and the APC from those small maps as well. Again, you're over estimating the Bike. Mine your base as always and you'll be mostly fine from rushes. No, all the words you are confirming here are about the Attack Cycle in Renegade X, not the Recon Bike in Renegade. In fact you're the first person other than me to mention that you've actually played MPF and Rencorner servers. On those servers, there is a very well balanced Recon Bike for Nod to purchase on most maps for MPF (I'm not talking about those crazy IA maps), and a couple for Rencorner. Now see here: you're not actually complaining about the bike, you're just saying you don't use it, and don't see others use it. We must not have played the same matches then; I use the bike all the time. It's great for guarding the base and catching rushes minutes before they arrive so you can tell your team to defend. Good times. Don't bother talking about Twisted Insurrection - while it's a great mod, it has nothing to do with the original C&C1 universe which Renegade was made from, said universe had a bike all setup for Nod, it was 99 percent ready to be deployed, and now finally, the Renegade X devs make a sweet model of it which looks very similar to the original Renegade Recon Bike, before the original Renegade got that huge change in aesthetic, changing all nod units to bright red instead of urban cameo. The model looks great, the unit is easily balanced, and the meta is barely changed. SO Lets do it, bring on the bike! I've already voted.

Don't take it personally. You're a close minded doubtful dude. Most on Rencorner are. The guys on Rencorner like pink rocket launchers but don't like recon bikes lol. lol no it's not. It's equivalent to a buggy or APC. To say the bike unnecessarily fills up vehicle cap is to also say the buggies/APCs unnecessarily fill up the vehicle cap. Which I guess is true to an extent, depending on the professionalism of the team. But that's not the point - Nod has always had Recon Bikes. Bring them back. They're easy to balance. And it wont die quicker if the pilot knows what he's doing - another non-issue. A couple people here with non-issues. You seemed to favour it earlier, now you're back tracking? Odd. Yes you are. The Recon bike is by no means the Attack Cycle. Renegade X Attack Cycle is OP. Renegade X Recon Bike is not. If anything the Recon Bike needs minor buff. Guess you never played C&C1. It's always been that way. Yes it does. You've obviously never played OG Renegade on the MPF and even the Rencorner servers. On those servers, at $500, they are a more advanced version of the buggy, being slightly weaker but having a MUCH faster top speed - after accelerating for a bit, the bike zooms past anything and everything. Unlike the Buggy, the Bike can actually kill tanks, not one on one, but with support from your team. They can also fend off aircraft because they have homing rockets. With that extreme speed you can run circles around the whole map, picking off hotties and weakened tanks. The buggy can't do this nearly as well. The bike is better than the buggy, hence the $500 price tag. You can support your team's armor by getting a technician and bike, zipping around your perimeter, picking off stragglers and repairing your tanks and artillery. It's useful. Don't compare the bike to a rocket soldier, lmao. You're not even trying. Seriously guys..... the Bike is awesome, and with a little fine tuning it'll be balanced. Stop resisting the bike. ;)

Oh I've definitely noticed it on my older potato system, with only 4 gigs of RAM and nVidia 640 lmao. This Carloz Mendoza guy is probably lying - although some of his CPUs might be OK, his rig overall is not up to snuff. With my new rig I might encounter that lag bug once in a blue moon during 64 player matches with lots of explosions going on. @Carlos_Mendoza Who are you? Whats your name on MPF, Rencorner and IA? Are you that aaaaaaaaa guy? Or MateNone? One of those airhead guys who can't speak English. lol, man we can't even coordinate in-game; you can't understand what we say without using a translator and ain't no one got time for that shit while playing the game live. So you end up just cursing all day in the chat. Good times, bro.

"Worse case, it can be removed" Exactly. We'll never know until we try. Best case it becomes an alternative to the buggy.

A couple of people are overestimating the bike. Handepsilon said it best - it wont change the meta much at all thanks to the vehicle cap. At $500 some people will buy it instead of the buggy or APC, and it will be just as useful as either, and remember, the Recon Bike is different from the Attack Cycle, it's not nearly as powerful, so even on Lakeside it should be OK. Your first sentence confirms that it shouldn't upset the balance. Your second last sentence was overly complicated for no reason lol, and it seems you're back tracking and assuming the worst. Don't worry, there is a place for it - the bike doesn't truly overlap any other vehicle, its got it's own play style. Based on my experience with the standardized Recon Bike in MPF and Rencorner (there are other OP versions of the bike in certain MPF maps, so disregard those) it's exhilarating driving at top speeds and trying not to bump into anything leaving you a sitting duck. No other vehicle offers this experience. It takes skill, but it's also high risk with only medium reward, meaning, it's not overpowered. In fact you might need to buff the bike to make it more useful. Just pop it in the roster as-is and see what happens. I highly doubt the meta will be changed very much. Early game rushes might be a bit different, but that's about it. Nod wants it's iconic bike back, dammit! Then we'll finally have all our vehicles. Except the SSM Launcher. Now THAT's a unit which could actually disrupt the meta, especially if you go with the Tiberian Dawn model which has two rockets, instead of Renegade's with only one. For those who don't know, the SSM is basically a super artillery which out ranges the Advanced Guard Tower and Obelisk of Light lol. That would be OP, you'd need to scale that unit back stats wise to balance it. But one step at a time! RECON BIKE! RECON BIKE! #BringBackTheReconBike I tell yah, when Renegade first came out, all I wanted to do was drive the recon bike. lol, I was so disappointed that Westwood didn't fully implement it. It took a long time until the modders buffed it to useful status and implemented it.

Steven Universe is a bad show for bad people. Opinion rendered moot. Now THIS guy knows whats up, he's stating some solid facts here. The Recon Bike is unique as hell, it doesn't overlap with anything. It works fine in MPF, Vandal is exaggerating, lol, they're not like tanks at all, the die REALLY fast if the driver ain't careful.

All models in Renegade are a lot different from Tiberian Dawn. The bike was always meant to be fully implemented, Westwood just ran out of time and had to release the game as is, with the Bike unfinished. The counters to bikes are anti tank weaponry that's all, they're not hard to fight against. GDI could get a TOW Humvee to compensate. If the Bike and TOW humvee are proving too cost effective jack the price to $700 and $800. You will when you realize you're the ONLY unit that has to do that. That's too gimmicky, and makes the Bike way too easy to kill.

Could jack the price to $700 so its less spammable. Anyway to boost MLRS missile tracking speed for just the bike? Mammoth should be able to take it out in one salvo of cannons and rockets. Not being able to fire on the move is no good, especially at $700. If you're gonna go the stop-to-fire route, decrease price to like $400. Not being able to fire on the move cuts the bike's utility in half; I'm definitely not a fan of this idea. Also, in C&C1, Mammoth tanks could squish bikes. Is it possible to make the mammoth be able to run over the bike, destroying it instantly? Like if the mammoth sprints and reaches a certain speed it can crush the bike?

Interesting, I thought it only happened on my older computer. I must not have noticed it on my better system. In that case I take it back - it's not your fault it's the engine's fault. lol, damn, I'm disappointed to learn that you are actually half retarded. Where you inoculated as a child? Because that would explain it.

Don't worry doggo it won't be teh same as that. @sn4ke Just scale the recon bike back a bit from the attack cycle so stat wise its not OP.

I know what you mean. On older CPU's like AMD Athlon II x4, the game lags slightly while you interact with the purchase terminals. In particular there's a slight frame freeze after purchasing a new character class and quickly exiting the menu. That's your fault; unless the devs can rework the Unreal 3 engine or whatever it's called (which even if they could they they wont because its far too much work) they can't help you. Help yourself and learn English - you sound half retarded. Naw I'm just kidding, you sound fine. Anyways, back to the Recon Bike - YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, AND MORE YES. Now put it on the main roster for purchasable Nod vehicles and we're golden. QUOTED FOR RELEVANCE - DEVS YOU NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS GUY, HE SPEAKS TRUTH. We want the Recon Bike mother fucking GOLDEN! So you gotta up the stats - currently it's too slow, doesn't accelerate like it should, and damage output is weak, although the health seems fairly high. Lower the health a tad and buff the rest a bunch. Actually you better PM this guy (euan-missile) for proper specifics. We have the Recon Bike. Good job boys! Now we just need to perfect it.

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You might as well let us buy the bikes in-game ($500) on all the maps. It would barely change the meta and Nod needs their Recon Bikes, their signature unit from Tiberian Dawn. I miss my recon bike/technician build I used back in old school Renegade on MPF maps server. Most hilarious playstyle ever ( and useful; great for supporting tank columns hopping out to repair, one shotting/squishing infantry and taking out weakened tanks) but it was a playstyle that didn't exist for the majority of Renegade's shelf life, because Renegade didn't fully implement the Bike, even though it was supposed to be a part of the Nod faction roster for regular multiplayer games. It wasn't until later when mods added in proper working bikes with balanced stats. But now C&C Renegade is almost dead, so it's up to you guys. #BringForthTheHolyReconBike Also great job on the model, it looks sick.

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