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Gameplay and Ritual


Madkill40
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Within every game there's an invisible 'Defender' and 'Attacker' vibe which plays throughout a game - is there any thought to build upon this routine mechanic which ties every game together in some way or another?

Modified VP to take into account time-spent-in-base +2(+2) VP, time-out-of-base +1(+1) VP, ?
+1 Defender bonus(+2 for every 5 minutes in base)
+1 Offensive bonus(+1 for every 5 minutes out of base)     ?overkill??[+1 for every 3Vehkills/4infkills]? 

Leave defender perimeter = cancels Defender modifier.

Leave offensive perimeter = cancels Offensive modifier.

 

May speed a game along whilst encouraging a player to stick to a role and learn it and feel an in-game reaction by extra VP - defending the base is pretty important and can reward a base constantly under siege - Quicker pace without a sudden. "building destroyed"

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  • 2 weeks later...

hmm.. interesting idea
it could balance teams when a team is stucked in his base without any option to attack - stucked by arty firewall or mammy waves
and i'm always up to have more VP, i reach so rarely heroic rank :D

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On 1/4/2020 at 1:20 AM, Madkill40 said:

+1 Defender bonus(+2 for every 5 minutes in base)

  • 5 minutes in base 
    • +1 VP
  • 10 minutes in base
    • +3 VP
  • 15 minutes in base
    • +5 VP
  • 20 minutes in base
    • +7 VP

Is how this would work, in-theory. In 20 minutes a consistent base defender would gain 16 VP, an additional 5 minutes on top of this would be 25 VP over 25 minutes. Logically a VP cap would be necessary at some point otherwise base defenders would get to heroic in no time at all. (Cap at +7 imo)

On 1/4/2020 at 1:20 AM, Madkill40 said:

+1 Offensive bonus(+1 for every 5 minutes out of base)

  • 5 minutes on field
    • +1 VP
  • 10 minutes on field
    • +2 VP
  • 15 minutes on field
    • +3 VP
  • 20 minutes on field
    • +4 VP

If too many stay in base, the field is going to be taken and that harvester or a building is going to be taken out. (if a building isn't taken out Two arty shells striking a building is +2 VP so) a base full of VP farmers isn't going to amount to much in the grand scheme of things.

This basically gives base defenders a reward for a task not enough people are willing to undertake or appreciate imo. 

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I don't think VP bonus would be enough. It's a nice start, but even taking VP out of the equation, the game just has too many rewards in the offense portion :

- Tech building
- VP bonus when killing enemy people inside their own base (in fact, you get *penalized* for doing the opposite)
- Crates
- Harvester shots (sans Island or Complex)

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8 hours ago, Handepsilon said:

I don't think VP bonus would be enough. It's a nice start, but even taking VP out of the equation, the game just has too many rewards in the offense portion :

- Tech building
- VP bonus when killing enemy people inside their own base (in fact, you get *penalized* for doing the opposite)
- Crates
- Harvester shots (sans Island or Complex)

Which is why this is more tailored for the defensive types to accrue VP over time for keeping the base watched, the tacked-on accrued VP for Offense would just be to keep certain big mouths quiet :D

A VP bonus for time spent defending the base as suggested above really would be a generous way to reward base defenders for staying in the base but may also encourage other players to see the benefits of defending the base too, via reward.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You want to award aggression, not camping. The point of C&C mode - especially on marathon servers where points mean jack - is to destroy the enemy base. You can't achieve that by sitting in base. If you want VP, go out and earn it. Renegade X doesn't need a social welfare system.

Besides, you can sit in base and rack up VP as the game is now. Just get a Sydney or Raveshaw and defend against vehicle rushes. It's what i do whenever our team doesn't have the field.

Edited by crazfulla
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Rewarding aggression is fine.

Overrewarding it on the other hand, is not.

Yes,  you want the bulk of your army to be on the offensive, but as I said time and again,  there really is next to no point in actually staying in base other than being a voluntary 'better safe than sorry' squad and mining,  of which there is almost no reward other than a few random VP and surplus money...  mostly because of your lack of purchase.

It's not as bad in maps like Island or Lakeside, but then you have maps Like Field or Under,  both of which really overrewards offensive play by giving a mean to farm harvester, hold the tech building, farm crates. 

The two maps were very much not geared for any form of defensive play other than mining, which is not exactly as vital too considering the huge-ass tower that annihilates everything. In fact,  by the time you're pushed to defensive, you can only pray that your enemies make a mistake and give you a good opportunity to come back. If not,  you can have fun getting locked in the base with small resources and no way to exit to the field, all the while your VP is penalized while your opponents' are boosted up.

You can argue that airstrike could be the way to open a wedge, but let's also not forget that your opponents can similarly do the same thing, and with more cash, they can do that twice as often with less risk

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I wouldn't mind some more vp for the degenerates that stay in base to watch for sneaking techs/hottys or sbh's. In Walls for instance you absolutely need 2-3 people defending the base and running around like idiots to make sure SBH do not gang-rape your refinery or power plant. 

There are many instances where I have spent most of the match in my base defending and have been the sole reason  the team hasn't lost a building multiple times in one match and am considerably under ranked. I mean sure I have a low kill count of about 10 or so but cmon man I deserve better than recruit an hour into the match after having saved the game so many times.

"can sum1 donate vp pls?"

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Defense is equally as important as offense. 

However, I think much of defense involves actions that might not directly involving interacting with the enemy. Such as patrolling the base, or effective mining tactics. Or healing buildings or friendly tanks and units.

 

The question is how can someone correctly be rewarded for performing such actions?

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I'm just gonna repost something I wrote about this a few weeks ago...(bolded the most relevant part)

Quote

 

With that said, perhaps more people would enjoy playing defense if it weren't for the VP penalties incurred (like how you earn more VP for killing near the enemy's base than near your base). I enjoy playing defense, but there aren't many opportunities to gain veterancy. And sticking to defense into the mid and late game only ensures you will still be be a lowly Recruit or Veteran while most other players are hitting Elite or even Heroic, which is not a fun imbalance to be a part of. 

Perhaps finding more ways to reward VP for overtly defensive acts would help? For example, giving a bonus in VP for killing enemy Hotwires/Techs within your own base. Or, a bonus for successfully EMPing a group of tanks right outside your base.. Or, a bonus for disarming enemy C4 on your building's MCTs...Or, a bonus for repairing prox mines being hit by an enemy EMP....etc.

 

 

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Some ideas...

Support

  • If you've repaired a vehicle and they then kill the vehicle who damaged them, you should get some VPs for it (you helped them win their "duel")
    • This counts for each vehicle you've repaired - so if you keep 2 alive and they've both been hitting that enemy, you get bonus points: points for each ally, but also a multiplier for having the skill to switch back and forth but keep them alive
  • Bonus VP for saving allies from death (repairing from low health while being engaged w/enemies)

Mining

  • Bonus VP any time your mines kill someone entering the building who had enough damage to kill the building

 

One thing I can't figure out is, how do you reward  good mine placement?

  • The difference between a good miner and bad miner can be REALLY important - but just placing out of sight isn't enough
    • Think the HON on walls flying. Someone who hides prox well / changes up location when they die is invaluable. If they just place in the same spot every time though - eventually that will cause the building to die.
  • Maybe they just get rewarded by the bonus XP for killing people entering buildings (see above), and that's the measure of a good miner.

-----------------------------------------------------

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4 hours ago, Ghostscythe said:

If you've repaired a vehicle and they then kill the vehicle who damaged them, you should get some VPs for it (you helped them win their "duel")

I will say that there are already Vehicle/Infantry Kill Repair assists that work similarly to what you are describing, I think. You often get VP when somebody (at least a tank, not sure about inf) you are healing makes a kill.

One thing about support, though... It's widely said that repairing is already one of the fastest ways to Heroic in the game. Dedicated reppers often reach heroic before the tankers they are repping, so individual unit support probably doesn't really need a VP earning buff. Defense... I could see where that could perhaps use it.

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Give supporting roles a killing floor perks-based mechanic, up to 3 different specializations -

Sprint longer, based on veh damage healed/repaired - can be stacked to increase sprint longevity 

Attack speed modifier (including deploy rate of all c4) based on mine kills and base (inf) kills.

+3 credit tick rate based on building kill or direct-MCT armour repaired. (Kill a building or heal a MCT for a good portion of the game

These perks are only active whilst playing as an Engineer/Hotwire/Technician

To earn the specializations requires dedication to the role during a game to earn them

The sprint longevity I like most, passive buffs that benefit the tedious parts of playing a role are more ideal as they're less likely to break the game.

The bottom line is this: If I have over 1k(random figure) of heals dealt I'd like to be able to have a longer sprint when playing Engi/Hot/Tech for that match.

If I'm stuck in base repping MCTs for so long then increase my tick rate and allow me to make the most of having more credits than opportunity of leaving the base after repairing past a certain threshold 

 

Build on existing habits and reward the players prone to these habits to encourage other players to take roles they wouldn't otherwise do

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