CQC Mods - opinions

[kira]

Hey guys i just was wondering what are your thoughts about this new  mod,

Would be very helpful and important for the Renegade X gameplay experience.

[Nexus51325]

Bad thing in my opinion

[kira]

Just now, Nexus51325 said:

Bad thing in my opinion

specify in details

[Nexus51325]

that making some character too op, like patch...

[Fffreak9999]

Bare in mind that this mutator is not a finalized version of Yosh's mutator and is still undergoing balance changes and there will likely be a lot more number crunching he needs to do. 

[kira]

2 minutes ago, Fffreak9999 said:

Bare in mind that this mutator is not a finalized version of Yosh's mutator and is still undergoing balance changes and there will likely be a lot more number crunching he needs to do. 

great, can it be more conditional? like considerations the rank of the teams (like if in one team there are a lot more heroic,  K\D and such )

[Fffreak9999]

Unfortunately no, it is a combat overhaul based on weapons not a balancing agent.

[roweboat]

I feel the CQC mod just brings unnecessary changes that are just adding more work to something that wasn't really broken.

[crazfulla]

On 10/7/2019 at 11:14 PM, roweboat said:

I feel the CQC mod just brings unnecessary changes that are just adding more work to something that wasn't really broken.

Well it broke an awful lot when it was implimented lol

[Axesor]

I feel like Iam gonna love it. Iam downloading the game right now after a while, and hopin that some populated server uses this mod. Also think that Yosh got a lil bit inspired by my experimental mutator that removes headshot multiplier while increasing damage, that I did years ago

[Mystic~]

I'm still learning to feel the changes it has in game-play combat situations, and we could maybe do with some sort of side by side video split demonstrating how the damage has been changed if it has such a strong degree of new influence upon the game, although I appreciate this is some work in itself. My only real gripe so far is that is has broken the tab screen information showing how many of each character is on the team as this is really important information to plan purchases and organise rushes.

I've managed to kill the player Schrott as a Patch versus Mendoza at least once, which is probably a massive improvement based on prior duels, but prior to this I found someone with this level of ability can use almost any mid-level character such as a Patch or LCG and easily defeat a less skilled opponent's Mobius or Mendoz quite consistently, resulting in a lot of frustration for many other players.

[ex_member]

It is a knife with 2 blades as it can do help and harm at the same time, depending from which side you observe this, e.g. less or more skilled players.

18 hours ago, Mystic~ said:

I've managed to kill the player Schrott as a Patch versus Mendoza

I am for sure no measure for this as I am an easy target and do have a lot of stutter and hit detection problems.  

Regarding body shots and hs, hitting the head should reward you but not make you God-like for that, at the same time hitting the body should not punish you by making it way too weak.

I think it requires some time to get the best out of this mod, collect feedback and results, tweak it, retest it and so. It is a process and we should be patient before we hit the final decision.

Edited October 12, 2019 by ex_member

[Calvin]

this mod makes avarage players good and good players amazing. 

also so much for making everything balanced for years and throwing it away just like that 

Edited October 12, 2019 by Nymzy

[Axesor]

Tested and I like the CQC mod. Yosh just gotta calculate everything around some specific time-to-kill, and consider other ups and downs of weapon to set fair TTK for every weapon. Not hard. It actually makes things much more easier to balance.

My preferable TTK vs 100/100 unit would be 0.7s for assault rifle and shotty, 1s for pistol while landing 6 hits, 0.65s for Paths rifle, 0.65s cuz of slow projectiles, 0.65s for Mobi etc etc.

I was not a fan of previous balance, so I support this idea.

[ex_member]

39 minutes ago, Nymzy said:

this mod makes avarage players good and good players amazing. 

also so much for making everything balanced for years and throwing it away just like that 

At this moment, I would not call this "throwned away". For me, it is more thinking out of the box.

And honestly, we should encourage our small team of pationate devs to do such things more often. 

Of course, some experiments might end up in a dead end, but some other might open a completely new perspective.

After a while, we will see, was this a good or less good decision.

[yosh56]

I dunno, I've been seeing a lot more evenness in the sense that the usual 'elite' players are forced to back out of fights more often, as well as have significantly more deaths than usual. 

 

At best, maybe some headshot damage reduction since all the numbers for those are pretty much what they always have been

[crazfulla]

I don't think developing a game or mod is just about hhaving a perfect balance in everything. if everything was perfectly balanced we would have 8 hour games like we did in the original renegade. There has to be something that's a little OP in certain situations to break the stalemates. That is the ideal for me, and the game is close to the mark regardless. Buffing weapons though can have adverse effects. Remember people don't have unlimited money in C&C mode, especially if they lose their ref, so it could drain people's funds more quickly if they die more often. Also it could reduce the viability of gunner/LCG/Mob/Doza rushes.

Edited October 15, 2019 by crazfulla

[Tytonium]

I like the idea behind the mod. To give a fair chance to every player when you are right next to your enemy. I feel as if this can balance things out between god-tier players and noobs such as myself, as a hit up close can spell doom for either side. One of the most important distinctions between this game and others is the fact that the time to kill is much higher in RenX. Having the ability to decimate health is a welcome change for myself as it really does give a chance to kill some of the super good players.

With that being said, there are certainly some balance changes that need to be changed with certain infantry classes, but give it time for the mod to adjust and I am sure it will be a permanent good change for the game.

[roweboat]

It seems like LCG take more damage from tank shells splash dmg now, which I like =D

[crazfulla]

1 hour ago, roweboat said:

It seems like LCG take more damage from tank shells splash dmg now, which I like =D

[yosh56]

3 hours ago, roweboat said:

It seems like LCG take more damage from tank shells splash dmg now, which I like =D

0 things were changed about vehicle damage or flak armour. 

I just 1v1d a med earlier today. 

 

MANTANK LEGION, biatch! 

 

--------

As far as I can tell, most of the weapons work fine in the CQC mod. Sidearms needed a pass over (since they had rediculous headshot multipliers), but after that most of the weapons were fine. Patch.... just needed to be nerfed since like beta 5.1. His nade can make up for a lot. 

Auto rifle might need to be scaled back slightly, but overall no other units seem all that broken by it.... It just feels like headshots are where they should be now... as opposed to this strange necessity where only about 10 people in the entire game are capable of doing meaningful  infantry damage

 

[roweboat]

I guess it's all in my head then.

[Ryz]

On 10/12/2019 at 9:18 PM, yosh56 said:

I dunno, I've been seeing a lot more evenness in the sense that the usual 'elite' players are forced to back out of fights more often, as well as have significantly more deaths than usual. 

 

At best, maybe some headshot damage reduction since all the numbers for those are pretty much what they always have been

This is what I like about it! 

[Fishyshoe]

Forgive me for asking, but what exactly does this CQC mod do? How does it change things compared to the game without it?

(I feel silly for having to ask this )

[NodSaibot]

6 minutes ago, Fishyshoe said:

Forgive me for asking, but what exactly does this CQC mod do? How does it change things compared to the game without it?

(I feel silly for having to ask this )

Essentially turns down the HS damage modifier and increases base dmg on weapons. Effectively reducing the time to kill for most units.

[yosh56]

27 minutes ago, Fishyshoe said:

Forgive me for asking, but what exactly does this CQC mod do? How does it change things compared to the game without it?

(I feel silly for having to ask this )

The fact that you have to ask.... is actually a good sign that it's not really ruining anything.

[TomUjain]

I commend Yosh for his idea, even if it has had a few bumpy turns.

We've gone over this before so I won't kick a dead horse but -  the 'get good' mentality combined with the stacking of these higher tier players has, and always will generate a lot of noise -- from both sides. Yosh's idea is a clever tackle of the issue, an issue -- which I believe is one of the key core issues facing gameplay as it stands and one issue (as I have said before) which will not go away until we are able to fill out several servers at once.

At first I was heavily against the idea due to how broken it made the game; however after a few rebalances I am (slowly) starting to warm to the idea, however I am not overly keen on this approch as we run the risk of turning RenX into a Call Of Duty spin off where you are dead almost instantly, it hasn't got quite so extreame as that but it was my main concern when the mod was being tested.

To add, I'd also like to point out that yes it makes it easier for 'lesser' players to retake key choke points - but it also makes it easier for more skillful players to kill you as well, it is a two-way-street. However, for now the mod does seem to have had a noticable effect.

 

 

[Fishyshoe]

1 hour ago, buttons said:

Essentially turns down the HS damage modifier and increases base dmg on weapons. Effectively reducing the time to kill for most units.

Thanks!

[crazfulla]

4 hours ago, yosh56 said:

The fact that you have to ask.... is actually a good sign that it's not really ruining anything.

The changes aren't that significant that I have noticed any imbalance, but then I haven't been playing RenX since dinopsaurs roamed the earth like some of you have. I'm just going by some of the comments here.

[Havoc89]

CQC doesn't break the balance from what I can tell, there are very few cases where it needs a bit of fiddling around to make it a bit smoother. I feel like I can still do everything I could do before however now there is a higher risk/reward to playing with all classes.

I feel a lot more vulnerable as a 1000 credit character since the usefulness of free tier to the mid tier classes have all been raised up. Its gotten to the point where I feel like I can use every class more effectively against every other class, but there are utility benefits to those mid-high tier classes which makes them more useful but no longer OP. There is a risk to buying an expensive character since they can be taken down more quickly, but there is also a reward aspect where it is now far more possible to be able to take down multiple characters from a single clip.

To me right now the biggest issue with this mod is Flak and Kevlar armour types. Anti-Infantry weapons will more or less delete any character with flak armour, but those same weapons will mearly tickle characters with Kevlar armour types. The issue with the giant headshot vs body shot multiplier that exists in the base game may be reduced greatly with this mod, but that same gap feels like it now exists with Flak and Kevlar armour types.

For example, I can use a marksman to take down any flak armour character well within a single clip regardless of them being free or high tier classes. Yet against any class wearing kevlar... that damage done feels like its less than half. This to me feels like the biggest discrepancy with the current setup of CQC which is making weapons feel very inconsistent. Granted the example I chose is probably with the class that's potentially the most "broken" at the moment, but its also one of those weapons that feels so good to use.

Anywho I did a rough graph of what I'm noticing with CQC. By no means is this plotted from stat tracking data, its just how I've seen RenX and CQC TTKs feel like.

 

The take away is that I dont see high skilled players really getting much benefit from this, its more so the 4-8 skill level players that are really noticing an improvement in their average TTKs. The 0-4 levels are more of a just time cut in half, but its in the 4-8 range where the time is more or less cut in third. The 9-10 range feels borderline unaffected but its also feeling more or less unaffected because that's already peak performance of any high RoF weapon TTK's so they cant get much further than that.

You'll also notice that base game has a much more linear curve while CQC is a bell curve. What we predicted/wanted to do with CQC is more or less what feels like is the case. The skill floor has been raised without the skill ceiling really being all that affected, the result is that more players are closer together in their TTK averages especially when it comes down to the mid skill players.

Another benefit to CQC is that it does feel like a fresh take on the gameplay, and I'm certainly having a lot more fun both playing and learning the new metas it creates. Maybe that's just because I've been playing this game for too long, but it is a change of pace, and one that I feel is beneficial to the overall game.

[Madkill40]

Not sure if its CQC related or something changed in a patchnote but the MRLS rockets are amazing - I like being able to down close encounters with an MRLS like the Arty can and I can still get away with rocket curls, its just that little bit more difficult to get the right angle which is a challenge so - that's all good in my book 

Still able to kick ass with an MRLS, even if I'm just harassing an area preventing Nod from getting closer - yet somehow getting that +1 VP veh damage  and the odd kill