New Field is a disgrace

[Alkaline!]

:

To whom it may concern,

You have ruined this map all in the name for making it easier for cry babies and for posers that don't give a $hit about this game. It easier to take down buildings on field with base defenses than it is on walls, or canyon, islands. 3 Tunnel entrances and 2 tank entrances are you kidding? Couple this with the new comm tower and its basically a 5 min game of musical chairs.

What made you decide you had to "f" with field, even on populated servers, it was the 2nd most requested map after walls. Field actually required team work, it perfected many rushes like doza rushes, early nod refinery foot rushes, and was one of the few maps where sieges could strange the enemy before they get brute forced to destruction. It was THE MARATHON map.

All of the things that made field great are now gone. Its a big mess of crap, you can destroy everything on foot and NOD has an even bigger advantage because they can destroy the weap and pp in 1 rush.

This has been a trend for some time: First mesa was ruined, now field, I can only predict Under is next, let me guess a 3rd tunnel will appear that opens up inside the ob/agt that should make it fair, Ohh and tanks can use the back path so they can go directly to the ref on nod and weap on gdi.

Its so sad.. GOBI is the new field

Other than than thanks for all the work you guys put in the game, I just don't understand when things that are working well are screwed with

[TK0104]

Most of the people don't like the Field on marathon cause it takes hours to win. They've made a better map of it than it was

[RoundShades]

viewtopic.php?f=135&t=76095

Under needs wider semi-divided tank exits, so tanks can flank rather than "chokepoint", which is simply unreliable no matter who's playing who. Also needs more than 1 outlet-tunnel. Was considering adding an outlet tunnel forking from where the 2 entrance-tunnels connect to each other, up to the silo, along with the one already going to the under-hill. Maybe even make the silo a com center

Was also considering making the WF actually fucking fair to get to from the bunker path.

Hope this isn't too saddening to you.

[boxes]

New field is a step in the right direction in almost every single way possible, if you want to play cancer just play under. It literally has the same format as old field

[yosh56]

Considering all you have to do is have presence in the tunnels (like always) the tunnel part really didn't change much, except making teams have to be more aware and less just camping one tunnel entrance.

If you really think 'teamwork' is what won Field before this, you're about as crazy as the rest of them. Field was usually won by beating your head against the wall till either A) GDI killed the HON after a 2 hour seige, or B) that ONE person stopped camping the tunnel just in time for a rush to come down. That's pure and utter luck, not really teamwork.

The map was terrible. It had more wins via surrender or changemap than actual wins. Unless you're counting when it's like 8v8, then Field was playable. But only having one stupid, 90 degree angle turn vehicle entrance, plus 2 tunnel entrances that can be camped from one spot in the base to deny everything was not even remotely a good map design. In a 20v20, most Field games were just decided by which team got the most bored people first, as defending against 'teamwork' was piss easy because it was just clusterfucks of people jamming themselves into narrow choke-points.

Also... you're overwhelmingly outvoted on whether new or old Field is better. The only time it 'feels' worse is when it's like a 5v5, since there's actually options now, and one person can't stop literally everything.

[Henk]

Its so sad.. GOBI is the new field

wat

[Ruud033]

Its so sad.. GOBI is the new field

wat

Indeed.

I thought I prevented this by making the map very small with an extra entrance to the base front. I never saw a marathon for 2 hours on that map

[Henk]

Gobi is about as different from the original Field as it can get.

No base defenses, 3 base entrances all accessible for both vehicles and infantry, no U-shaped map like Field/Under but more an O shaped map like training yard. A huge shared tiberium field, do I need to go on with naming the differences, or was my 'wat' enough?

[Alkaline!]

Its so sad.. GOBI is the new field

wat

2nd most requested map after walls

[yosh56]

Its so sad.. GOBI is the new field

wat

2nd most requested map after walls

It's not.... at all.

[TK0104]

I played it recently on PUG and my thoughts are changed.

Because of the Communication Center, sneaking isn't an option cause the enemy see you. So Nod can't kill WF which means they probably will lose cause of the tank spamming. The only thing they can do is defending.

I think we need to do something about that

[RoundShades]

I played it recently on PUG and my thoughts are changed.

Because of the Communication Center, sneaking isn't an option cause the enemy see you. So Nod can't kill WF which means they probably will lose cause of the tank spamming. The only thing they can do is defending.

I think we need to do something about that

Com Center doesn't reveal own base anymore, just enemy base. Nod can still sneak structures. Happens all the time.

[boxes]

I played it recently on PUG and my thoughts are changed.

Because of the Communication Center, sneaking isn't an option cause the enemy see you. So Nod can't kill WF which means they probably will lose cause of the tank spamming. The only thing they can do is defending.

I think we need to do something about that

That's just the comm center doing its job, preventing you from sneaking in. If you don't have field control, don't even bother. Applies to both teams.

[Quinc3y]

Just LOL @ Alkaline, you cant be serious in this thread...

[djlaptop]

I play (and prefer) mostly smaller games (5v5 is wonderful IMHO, no bigger than 10v10). In this context, old Field was better (and I already wasn't crazy about it).

I wouldn't go so far as to call new Field a "disgrace" though. Alkaline's rant reminds me of the infamous Grilled Cheese / Melt thread, in that I think it's blown a little out of proportion while still being factually accurate.

It WOULD be nice to have "Field Classic" available. Is this possible?

[vandal33]

Before the update, Field was NEVER broken, except if you play marathon then it's as broken as any other map on marathon. Hopefully this change made to Field isn't because of crybabies who only plays marathon and doesn't like a 1+ hour match (then what's the point of marathon?).

[boxes]

Field was very broken.

-AGT/Obelisk

-1 vehicle entrance

-1 infantry path easily camped out w/ vehicle

-1 infantry path being watched by base defenses

-Small size

Playing this on anything more than a 15v15 is like bashing your head against a wall. But hey, at least that checklist matches Under, so go play that.

[RoundShades]

Field didn't have PP, making AGT/Obby standalone. Under doesn't have that, and PP is killable by infantry. So field was worse than Under. We do need to tweak Under too, though.

[Radeon3]

First mesa was ruined, now field, I can only predict Under is next

You just listed the 3 original worst maps in the history of RenX. I do hope that Under will be "ruined" as well.

Back in the days of oldRen, Field was my favorite map, but in RenX it didn’t play out well for many reasons, some of those were already mentioned. The real sad thing about oldField is, that I can’t imagine how many players left the game because of the piss poor broken gameplay they experiened on it.

[sterps]

When saying piss poor gameplay causing people to leave, that happened on virtually every map... The op as hell arty whoring that occurred every. Single. Time

[Alkaline!]

People complaining about the difficulty of old maps never must have had clan matches or played with groups of people that were highly skilled in renegade. I did all the time, and MESA, FIELD, CITY and UNDER were always in the rounds (sometimes even that hellish original hourglass) and 3/4 times the map would end in base destruction 30 mins game, rarely did matches include maps without base defense. The Old Un server with a 24 player limit was hellish... I remember those games 5-6 arties hitting weap the WHOLE time, take about an earth quake.

You had to organize and execute and use top tier tactics with top tier chars. Now the focus is away form team work, its literally to go "renegade" and do it all by yourself.

You can cater to both crowds, But that it is not what the developers are doing, Why can't we have both unmolested Mesa and Field along with the babiesRus versions? Because the focus has been to appeal to the wuss' the want red carpets leading into the base with the opposing teams having refreshments waiting for them. That is evident in the fact that they had to "Screw" with field; you could have left it as is and made a new map similar to it, but no, you guys removed it all together.

STOP RUINING ORIGINAL MAPS, make new ones or re-imagined ones, thats fine, but plenty of us like the original, they can co-exist.

[boxes]

Because maps like old Field potentially drives new players away and makes them have a very bad impression of what a Renegade X game can be like. Back and forth vehicle slugging on the 1 entrance, getting sniped by ramjets and PICs over and over in the tunnels, rinse and repeat, some wonder why they even installed the game in the first place after playing a field marathon.

Even in the organized games Field was incredibly dull because of the limited oppurtunites given when compared to the other maps. Renegade X isn't C&C renegade, if something works in the OG it doesn't mean it'll work on RenX.

[vandal33]

I find Under good the way it is. Complete base, takes effort or teamwork to storm in a base, good silo position and rarely a one-sided (no one complained GDI map this, imbalanced that). It's better than Eyes because of no helicopter nonsense. If it is gonna be changed, hopefully it won't be ruined.

[LavaDr4gon]

Everyone needs to ask themselves these questions:

Should Renegade X expand out to the people, change to meet the ongoing needs of the players and to invite new people to join the community?

or

Should Renegade X confine itself and only please the players that like the old ways and reject the ideas of new players that have a hard time learning?

Or another argument, should Renegade X change for the players? or should the players change for Renegade X?

[yosh56]

People complaining about the difficulty of old maps never must have had clan matches or played with groups of people that were highly skilled in renegade.

I did...and Field was shunned because the games would NOT end in 30 minutes. Defending took like 2 dedicated people and those two people to just be really loud on TS if something did come.

Again...this 'teamwork' you speak of still comes down to just nobody noticing something. Outrepairing volt Rifle's in Olden wasn't hard, and it's easier in RenX being able to sprint.

This is about the time when I wish Hate would show his ass. About the only time Field would end when both teams were equally good was when it was like 6v6 tops.

He'll, even in the current PUGS for RenX it's hard as hell to make Field end. Its just not nearly as boring to throw yourself at 5 chokepoints as it is at 2.

[Quinc3y]

Alkaline, you must be trolling, man.

[Axesor]

Old Field-Boring as hell. No more arguments are needed. Insulting by calling us crybabies is rather ridiculous, it just prooves how right we were.

should Renegade X change for the players? or should the players change for Renegade X?

This question burdens only us (kinda unhappy players with.. certain things). But you can do one thing: make your own mod if you dare. Assets are free to use.

[Madkill40]

Old Ren had all the pros of early 2000s BIG online multiplayer venture, there weren't that many options and the maps catered towards the limit of the game's possibilities. (This is back when 100k people playing a game was a lot)

If Ren-X only ever offers "New Old Ren" then that doesn't appeal to anyone else other than people who'd still be playing OldRen now if GameSpy was still around.

Before questioning changes to the original maps, ask yourself this:

Why did Old Ren have so many custom maps that were more frequently played than the originals?

[vandal33]

The map that keeps being voted all day is claimed to be boring. Just proves how right you were, indeed.

[yosh56]

The map that keeps being voted all day is claimed to be boring. Just proves how right you were, indeed.

Considering it was literally complained about by more people, and half the time had a 'change map' vote right when it started, I'd call it pretty well documented as boring. It also generally ended in surrenders or map changes.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Why did Old Ren have so many custom maps that were more frequently played than the originals?

???????

If we looked at this in 2016, there are 2 major servers still left in Renegade. One almost entirely based on custom maps and mods, the other is quite close to vanilla. The majority of the playerbase, after 14 years, still goes to the server with the original maps. Unlike 90% of all the custom maps, they are designed for low playercounts, but still worked in 30+ player games.

But yes, There is still a popular server around with a lot of custom maps. But many of the maps are total crap. It's the mods that they adore the most: building turrets, calling backup, buying recon bikes and mutants.

One other important reason they like this server aswell are the blatantly broken snipers and Stealth Tanks in the ridicilously oversized, open maps.

This should be enough of an answer to this post, but i'm gonna continue anyhow. What keeps a few, but mostly well designed old maps more fresh than many, but badly designed custom maps? That is a good map rotation. Specifically something amongst the lines of 2 rush maps in a row, followed by a single base defence map to: 1) get a higher playercount with longer games, and 2) bring variety into games. The choice of each rush and base defence map is also important, as there are base defence maps with only one base entrance, and maps with multiple ones. A perfect example of this is City, and it worked (except for the broken stealth tank rushes in anything less than a 25v25).

Sorry, but i just had to say it