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Beta 4 Preliminary Changelist


RypeL
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Hey guys, here is a list of what you can look forward to in the next version of Renegade-X, due to be released at the end of february.

We will hold a short closed beta test in february first. Cause it should really only be a kind of short test we didnt want to go through a new testers recruitment again and will use the current internal testers plus we are letting TMX and EKT selecting some aswell as they have a lot of dedicated members and can come up with a selection process among their members themselves. But even if you are not an internal tester you can now get an idea of what you can look forward to when the next version is relesed publicly soon. List is not final and some points might change again based on your and the testers oppinions:

General:

  • Added support for custom maps
  • Added auto patcher to the launcher
  • Added 3 new maps (CNC-Complex, CNC-Under, CNC-Canyon)
  • Donations are disabled for the first mins of a game depending on new serversetting 'DonationsDisabledTime'. Default is 3 minutes.
  • The start of an online match is now delayed by 20 seconds. The start of the match will be delayed till either the server filled up or till NetWaitTime=20 rans out. After that a final 10 second counter will start before the game begins
  • Remote C4 does not influence the teams minelimit anymore. Instead there is a special remote c4 limit of 4 per person
  • When you get killed the camera now rotates towards your killer so that you can see what direction you were killed from
  • Optimized particle trail effects on various missile, shells, and bullet particles for better performance
  • Mines now show who placed them in their targeted description
  • You can now disarm your own mines to place them somewhere else (With secondary repairgun fire you can still heal them aswell)
  • Added mapspecific mine- and vehiclelimits that can be configured in the UDKRenegadeX.ini. See DefaultRenegadeX.ini for examples
  • Timed C4 now plays beep(s) every 5 seconds
  • When you die from C4/Mines the kill message should now always display the C4/Mine owner as your killer instead of just "you suicided/died"
  • Added DM-Deck to the maplist (will play as a 10 mins TDM match if voted)
  • New character/vehicle shader system with cubemap reflections
  • Added visual countdown to the beacons targetingbox indicating how much time is left to disarm it
  • SBH and Stanks have their stealth deactivated when inside an EMP Field
  • Servers can now use a Fixed Map Rotation by setting bFixedMapRotation to true
  • Added bAllowWeaponDrop serversetting (off by default)
  • Body damage now causes blood splatter effects
  • Added Smoke Grenade. Spawns a SmokeScreen that blocks targeting and Line of Sight from Base Defences.
  • New Vehicle Locking system:
    • Players can now bind to a single vehicle, which allows them to lock/unlock the vehicle at any time.
    • Locking only locks the driver seat. If another player is currently the driver at the time it gets locked, they are moved to passenger (or booted out if no room).
    • A vehicle will auto-unlock if the owner dies.
    • Binds are lost on team change, disconnect, enemy hijack, binding another vehicle.
    • Auto-bind will occur if a player gets in a vehicle they purchased, and they don't already have a bound vehicle.
    • Lock/Unlock is performed by pressing L. Bind/Unbind is performed by holding L for one second.
    • Vehicles show if they are locked or reserved and whether you own them in their targeted description.

    [*]You now get 10 damage per sec when standing on an active air vehicle to prevent vehicle surfing

    [*]Crates adjustments:

    • You will not get a refill crate when your ammo and health are above 75%
    • You will not get a character swtiching crate if you already have a non free character
    • Crates now will spawn at the beginning of every game minute to make them less random
    • Initial Money ctate credits changed from 100 -> 150
    • Character Crates wont award the free char classes anymore so that its more worthwhile to get

    [*]Changing to and from walking and jumping is now client-predicted to make it smoother in online play

    [*]Additional improvements to pawn movement speed adjustments:

    • The Jumping slow down now applies while maintaining constant speed (before it would only apply if you changed to a different speed (eg from sprint to run)
    • The slowest you can be forced to go (via repeated jumping) is walking speed.
    • Improved smoothness.

    [*]Clients can now see the about to be kicked for idling warnings

    [*]Set KickIdlers on by default, and set to 5 minutes

    [*]Vehicles that have passengers but no driver now remain on the occupants team instead of going neutral.

    [*]If a vehicle reserve time expires, its team gets switched to Neutral.

    [*]Added a server option bReserveVehiclesToBuyer (default true) which when set to false, disables the automatic buyer-only reserve of a purchased vehicle. (It still remains Team reserved)

    [*]Added collision on a few deco props that needed collision

    [*]Added a 'Your score this minute' info to the additional HUD info that you get by using the 'V' key

    [*]Stolen vehicles dont count towards the vehicle limit of either team anymore

    [*]Harvester respawntime increased by 10 secs

    [*]Respawntime for vehicles created after a harvester increased by 2 secs to make it less unlikely for them blowing up the previously spawned harv

    [*]Added check to prevent players from placing beacons inside their own base (the check is based on the spotting locations/buildings

    if the nearest spotting actor is a friendly building the beacon cant be placed. The player gets a message informing him about it)

    [*]Decreased beacon disarm reward from 300 to 200

    [*]Improved the End of Map vote. You can now exclude the last X amount of maps (RecentMapsToExclude [def=3]) and also define how many options to list (MaxMapVoteSize [def=5]). They are also scrambled, so they aren't always listed in the same order. (Config in UDKRenegadeX.ini)

    [*]The EMP Grenade Blast can now disarm Proximity and AT Mines.

    [*]Hitting an enemy building with an EMP triggers the "Building Under Attack" message

    [*]Base Defences now all have proper names in kill messages.

    [*]Suppressed death messages when a player switches team or disconnects.

    [*]Harvester now gives proper kill messages when running players over.

    [*]Kill messages now differentiate between killing yourself and dying "by nobody" (eg the World).

    [*]Players will now switch to previously equipped weapon from any explosive-type weapon(s) once the ammo count has reached 0.

    [*]Characters have less gravity to be a little more arcade-ish

    [*]C4s now play "impact" sounds

    [*]Added vehicle death messages

    [*]Havoc and Sakura will now have multiple timed c4 as their default explosive weapons

    [*]Camera doesent get attached to head gibs anymore

    [*]Setup of global map info parameters for vehicles and characters similar to the stealth parameters that can allow various visual components of characters and vehicles to be edited on a per map basis. Such as global cubemaps, reflection colour, and brightness

    [*]The light at the end of the repair beam is now blue

    [*]Reduced momentum inflicted to dead bodies so that ragdolls are less extreme

User Interface:

  • Added error messages dialog for errors that occured during connecting/loading maps
  • End game scoreboard will now scroll to the most bottom everytime there is new chat message in
  • Hud doesent show passengers of enemy vehicles anymore so that you cant judge the danger of an APC rush that easily anymore
  • chat box will scroll down for each message that comes in pause menu.
  • chat box is now set to multiline and warped
  • resolved duplicated message in pause menu
  • chat box will no longer overflow outside its bounds in pause menu
  • spotting adds markers on the minimap
  • spotting adds markers on the Main HUD
  • increased the font size for the end game scoreboard chatlog, chatInput and chatButton
  • Resolved issue on locked EMP and AT for hotty and techie in PT in MP
  • Resolved the issue of missing/non-removal loadout issue in PT when purchasing/swapping characters
  • Nuke/Ion Beacon deployment HUD message is now displayed in the kill feed area.
  • Moved Building destroyed HUD message over to Kill Feed/Game Events area.
  • Team join messages now appear on the HUD in the Game Events area
  • AGT and Obelisk show a "Weapons Offline" description when the Power Plant is destroyed.
  • Main HUD Images are now noticibly sharper and brighter, flash filters are now used correctly

RCon:

  • Added Rx_Mutator class. Will allow for any Rx-specific mutator hooks (like custom rcon commands)
  • Kills by base defences are now RxLogged.
  • Team changes are now RxLogged.
  • EVAPrivateSay command renamed to HostPrivateSay. The name is displayed as "Host" rather than "EVA".
  • Added HostSay command which displays a chat message to all players in the chat area as Host (rather than the EVA area). Host name is pale blue like the HostPrivateChat, and message is plain white (stands out slightly from the blue-tinted white of normal player chats).
  • Beacon disarm messages are now RxLogged and displayed on the HUD in the Game Events.
  • Added new Rcon Command implementation that allows for commands to send back replies.
  • Added HUD and RxLog messages for Silo capture and neutralise.
  • Added RxLog message for map change and load. Includes map changing to and whether or not it is Seamless.
  • Added ChangeMap RconCommand.
  • ClientLists now shows Admin Status.
  • ClientList retrieved via rcon now separates fields by NBSP rather than the double space.
  • Added RecordDemo RconCommand.
  • Timed C4 now shows the countdown in its description (not for enemies)
  • The auth success response now also includes the IPString for the connection.
  • Votes are now RxLogged.
  • Added CancelVote RconCommand that can cancel votes in progress.
  • Vehicles, Automated Defences and Emplacements kills are all now explicitly separated from each other in log messages.
  • Kills by AI (not bots, but defences and harvy) are now completely logged.
  • RxLog format revamp for nicer parsing.
  • Added Mutate rcon commands.

Fixes:

  • Fixed Team Donate messages saying you donated to yourself when someone else team donated to you
  • Harv is less likely to stop moving and if it does pushing it around can now make it go again
  • Fixed spotting always saying a player was spotted near a building. Gives proper area descriptions now
  • Fixed points system not always awarding points/credits based on actual inflicted damage. For example running an enemy over with a vehicle could sometimes award you 2000 points/credits. And doing the last 1% damage to an enemy could award you the same ammount of points as dealing like 20% damage.
  • Fixed hitmarkers showing on dead bodies/vehicles
  • Fixed instanthit weapons not dealing damage at cheastheight in MP
  • Death by Proxy should now show correctly use the Proximity Mine icon instead of the AT Mine icon.
  • Fixed destruction of Defence Emplacements (regardless of team) causing GDI Vehicle count to decrease
  • Fixed Ref harvester docking door not opening/closing in MP
  • Optimized the ammount of calls that are sent to the masterserver informing it about a change in playernumber. This should help reducing issues of the servers sometimes not showing the correct ammount of players
  • Fixed online Refill issues
  • Client-side vehicle effects are now able to play for passenger weapons
  • Fixed SBH sometimes beeing visible to you, when you switched teams from Nod to GDI or connected mid game
  • Fixed killing yourself or teammates with your own beacon awarding you points
  • Fixed auto teambalancing not working. It will work again like in Beta 2.
  • Fixed AGT Rockets not actually being on the GDI team.
  • Fixed issues with C130 animation starting too soon when spawning harvesters or for the next vehicle after spawning a harvester
  • Entered passengers (not swapped seats) will now update its HUD to its vehicle representative instead of default A-10 icon.
  • Fixed Repairgun Beam display issues in demoplayback
  • Fixed that when you were killed on first person you couldnt see your killed player model with the death cam
  • Resolve issue of MapList's ScrollingList UI Component being resized in MainMenu Map.
  • Fixed issue with weapons trying to resume fire in the last used firing state when holding down fire when coming out of a reload.

Vehicles:

Buggy:

  • 4 Wheel steering
  • Vehicle physics made to be a bit more chaotic and slippery
  • Reduced gravity make the buggy catch more air and hang time
  • Optimized physics by removing 4 invisible wheels that were used to calculate cosmetic suspension (They are no handled without having clone wheels and are now following the actual wheels to handle the cosmetic suspension effect)

GDI/Nod APC:

  • have new firing sounds
  • have gotten a similar lower gravity treatment just like the Buggy
  • Made the GDI APC less wonky

Humvee:

  • got a similar lower gravity treatment just like the Buggy

Flame Tank:

  • Flame Tank rate of fire doubled but damage halfed
  • Flame Tank fire effect removed and instead projectiles now hold emitter for accurate display
  • Flame Tank projectiles now travel straight out of the barrel rather than turning to hit the crosshair
  • Flame Tank damage vs infantry increased slightly
  • Reduced projectile speed
  • Optimized fireball projectile effect
  • Reduced fireball spread because there is a volumetric projectile instead

Artillery:

  • Artillery projectile travels slightly slower

MRLS:

  • MRLS projectiles travel slightly faster

Weapons:

  • Updated sight textures on various weapons

Grenade:

  • Increased damage and radius slightly
  • Reduced bouncy-ness
  • Added an alt fire which doesnt chuck the grenade too far
  • can now damage through walls like C4

Tactical Rifle

  • Removed distortion emitter from tactical rifle's muzzle flash from first person view so that the scope is clear when firing

Marksman Rifle:

  • Added 2 more magazines
  • Updated scope crosshairs

PIC / Railgun:

  • Changed the reticle to be the same as the sniper

Autorifle:

  • Updated iron sight to be less obtrusive and more accurate

Carbine:

  • Reduced rate of fire
  • Reduced pitch of firing sound to match rate of fire

Flak Cannon:

  • Primary fire is a little more accurate
  • Primary fire is slightly faster
  • Primary fire has a bit more headshot damage
  • Alt fire is a little bit faster
  • Alt fire has a little more damage
  • Secondary speed and damage has been increased slightly
  • Fixed projectile spawning too far from the right of the character
  • Flak cannon has a new firing sound

Grenade Launcher:

  • Reduced max range
  • Increase grenade velocity to make it easier to hit mid ranged targets (vehicles)

Chaingun:

  • Removed rev up and rev down times
  • Recoil goes up instead of down
  • Rate of fire decreased slightly to compensate for no rev up time
  • Base spread increased slightly

Chemical Thrower:

  • Increased projectile velocity
  • Increased range to make it easier to hit mid ranged targets (vehicles)
  • Updated effect to be easier to see but also more accurately represent the projectiles
  • Mag size reduced to 50
  • Reserve Mags doubled to compensate
  • Range increased (Effective Range matches Flak Cannon)
  • Projectile radius increased
  • Damage vs all increased (Damage Per second matches Flak Cannon)
  • Added radial splash damage
  • Rate of fire reduced to match ren's rate of fire

Flame Thrower:

  • Increased projectile velocity
  • Increased range to make it easier to hit mid ranged targets (vehicles)
  • Updated effect to be easier to see but also more accurately represent the projectiles
  • Mag size reduced to 50
  • Reserve Mags doubled to compensate
  • Range increased (Effective Range matches Grenade Launcher)
  • Projectile radius increased
  • Damage vs all increased (Damage Per second matches Grenade Launcher)
  • Added radial splash damage
  • Rate of fire reduced to match ren's rate of fire

Laser Chaingun:

  • Removed rev up and rev down times
  • Recoil goes up instead of down

Machine Pistol:

  • Has the same reticle as the Autorifle
  • Mag size increased to 40 rounds

Ramjet Rifle:

  • Updated Beam to be a bit less obvious
  • Increased ramjet heavy armour damage to 30hp per shot from 10hp per shot to compensate for reduced infantry damage
  • Decreased ramjet rifle damage vs light armour vehicles
  • ramjet and sniper have a slight spread when hip firing
  • damage vs infantry has gone down from 200 to 150 so no more one hit kill on free infantry

Volt Auto Rifle:

  • added charged alt-fire

Maps:

New Map: CNC-Canyon

New Map: CNC-Complex

New Map: CNC-Under

Xmountain:

  • fixed collision on rocks
  • fixed getting stuck between rocks and walls
  • fixed GDI tib growth animation
  • fixed rocket ladders (GDI side)
  • added blocking volume fail safe for rocket ladders (both sides)
  • fixed GDI harvester path
  • resolved the "stupid tree" (near GDI wf)
  • fixed floating trees
  • fix possible way to get out the map
  • built paths
  • built production lights
  • put blocking volumes around the large bunkers to stop people jumping dont in to the base
  • removed the ramps in side the large bunkers (dont need them to look though the view ports)
  • removed all the trees in the middle of GDI base
  • moved GDI harvester to the middle of the base
  • moved the rock boundary to conform to the new base shape
  • re painted and sculpted the landscape in and around GDI base
  • re did the grass trees and stone foliage in around GDI base
  • re did some paths in GDI base
  • removed and replaced the track decals around the GDI base edit
  • added new blocking volumes to some rocks in the inf only area (stop wall jumping)

Volcano:

  • fixed the 2 rocks in the main tib cave not having collision
  • added world off set to water and lave so it has a up and down movement now

Field:

  • Widened tunnel entrances
  • Added a ramp for infantry to have another exit and a sniper vantage point from their bases to the field
  • Air tower is rotated so the entrance is facing the obelisk
  • Removed all wall barriers in the bases
  • Added some rocks on top of the sniper perches to allow tanks to damage infantry with splash damage
  • Modified tunnel entrances slightly
  • Lowered water level to allow infantry to cross and use the river bank
  • Bridges have been updated to allow infantry to cross under them
  • Removed all base walls to allow more access to infantry and vehicles
  • Updated path nodes configuration for hopefully less AI getting stuck ness
  • Added path nodes in the river bank for infantry to cross
  • Added small water puddles here and there
  • Added cover around the silo

Mesa:

  • Cave is now inf only
  • Vehicles can now use both side routes
  • Various other changes to structure placements etc

Whiteout:

  • Enhanced background scenery
  • Removed cluttered scenery
  • Added infantry only base entry points
  • Added automated base defenses
  • Added gun emplacements
  • Added additional cover to silo area
  • Revised entire tunnel system (now includes side tunnels)
  • Revised background aesthetic for entire to provide cleaner/less-cluttered appearance
  • Repositioned base defences
  • Altered coloration of tiberium areas
  • Altered post process effects slightly
  • Altered coloration of landscape slightly (with addition of second, slight, color variation in snow

Volcano:

  • added world off set to water and lave so it has a up and down movement now

Goldrush:

  • added tiberium silo
  • inf route changes
  • various other changes

Islands:

  • Fixed incorrect wall texture on islands

Walls_Flying:

  • fixed a sniper exploit (could use a chopper to get on the 2 side rocks)
  • map is less bright

Various other optimizations to all maps, effects, assets etc.

*Edit*

Update from 07.03 of additional things:

- LCG fireinterval from 0.08 to 0.1

- Slight LCG spread increase

- Airstrikes cant be placed near a beacon anymore

- Airstrikes have a 30 second cooldown per team

- First iteration of Airdrop code. They become available with a 2 mins cooldown and increased cost when WF/AS gets destroyed (cooldown will probably increase to more like 4-5 mins. keeping it fairly low atm so that they are easier to test)

- The visibility of the targetingbox now matches the weaponrange more closely

- Inreased vertical movementspeed of Apache/Orca to make them more fun to fly

- fixed a server crash that could happen when AT mines were present on the server

- fixed B4 servers getting removed from the serverlist after idling for 60 minutes

- fixed start of game message saying "match begins in 5" instead of "waiting for players"

- fixed that if you scope in with a sniper and then press F (toggle third/first person), you will have a third person scope that shows your head and is a bit higher

- fixed timelimit staying at the default 10 mins matchtime for deathmatch even after switching to a C&C mode map

- fixed disarming your own mines awarding you points

- fixed beeing able to deploy beacons while parachuting

- fixed SBH not uncloaking on the other players point of views when the SBH was doing headshots

- fixed hitmarkers not showing when scoped

- fixed not getting points for a kill

- Reduced volume of some of the GDI Airstrike sounds

- removed spread from ramjet

- removed headshotmodifier from flametank and adjusted damage (probably needs more tweaking. also flametank range and possibly damage falloff at range should be looked at)

- disabled ability to throw weapons

- Some small fixups from Agent's posts

- Added weapon firing animations to the Volt AltFire.

- Renegade Score and Kills now reset over seamless travel

- Suicides no longer increment kill count.

- Player Pings are now decompressed (multiplied by 4) when being displayed on the ScoreBoard.

- Fixed the issue of PT when Hottie/Techy dies, the proxy carried over to the respawned player

- StartingCredits, VehicleLimit, and MineLimit options set in the Skirmish menu should work now

- Reduced max spread on tac rifle

- Increased max spread on laser chaingun to match tac rifle

- Various event log updates

- Added dynamic RCON commands.

* Added "Help" RCON command (lists commands and displays help/syntax for specific commands)

* Added "HasCommand" RCON command

* Added "ListMutators" RCON command

* Added "LoadMutator" RCON command

* Added "UnloadMutator" RCON command

* Added InitRconCommands() function to Rx_Mutator for mutators to override.

- Fixed Airdrop issues (cooldown time will increase in the next patch and an airdrop animation is in the works aswell)

- Obelisk now only charges if he has a clear line of fire

- Fixed Airstrike cooldown counter in MP

- Disabled weapondrop for now (we will get back to it later)

- Added a music player to the audio settings preloaded with ren and renx tracks

- Repairguns secondary firemode now automatically keeps firing for about 25 seconds (can be canceled/reset by pressing either secondary or primary fire again)

- Updated to latest UDK version

- Added "Donated;" GAME Rcon log.

- Added "RecordStop;" DEMO Rcon log.

- Expanded "Deployed;" logging.

- Fixed "Disarmed;" log spam.

- Added "MAP" RCON command.

- PT no longer set the player's loadout upon exiting (by hitting 'esc' key or pressing exit button in Purchase terminal). The only way to loadout is by performing refill or purchase.

- Added RCON commands: Team, Team2, Ping, GiveCredits.

- Reduced bleed damage of chem thrower

- Missile launcher has increased light and heavy armour vehicle damage

- PIC/Railgun has a full 100 damage against light armour for being able to 4 shot mrls/arty/orca

- Increased EMP Grenade cook time to allow vehicles to be able to avoid grenades before they detonate (we are currently thinking of making EMPs stick to vehicles so that there is a delay for the EMP effect but so that the vehicles cant just easily avoid them)

- Added Rx_SeqAct_GetCredits and Rx_SeqAct_RemoveCredits kismet actions for mappers to make kismet actions based on a players credits

- Added 3D Studio Max rig example files for weapons, vehicles, and characters

- Set smoke grenade to be purchasable in PT

- Havoc and Sakura will now use Remote C4 instead of timed C4

Vehicles:

- Updated vehicle collision to make them less capable of climbing over other vehicles

- Vehicles have increased friction which prevents them from being able to climb up on 90 degree walls, blocking volumes, and buildings

- Vehicle destroyed shell lifetime reduced to 0.1 second

Chemical Thrower / Flame Thrower

- projectile speed reduced, range, and headshot damage

Tiberium Auto rifle

- projectile no longer has an arc on the projectile

- increased vehicle and light armoured vehicle damage

Volt Auto Rifle

- Reduced primary fire rate of fire

- Reduced alt fire projectile speed, range, and explosion radius

- Fixed alt fire electric damage being insanely high

Maps:

- Too many map fixes to list. Especially to the new maps.

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Good work. Thanks for the update!

Two things will there be an option to turn off this EMP killing mines? will there be a warning when the mines get disabled?

[13] i dont like this: The EMP Grenade Blast can now disarm Proximity and AT Mines.

[13] so now mining is pointless

[13] thats pretty shitty

[13] sbh emp... mines gone nuke gg

also will there be a rcon command for muting players?

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Looking forward to a lot of these well needed changes, Agree with the above, If emp grenade blast can disarm prox and at mines, mining has become really pointless.

Also i may of over-looked this, but is there going to be any updates on the banning system>.

A way to ban for map ie...

Someone can be tbanned so they can't rejoin until next map (more ideal rather than a 24hr ban for like bad attitude etc)

Also....

Fixedmaprotation -

will there be a way we can override via rcon like ... !setnext islands

Apart from those 2 things more than happy with the above changes nice work devs ;) (see i can be nice too)

(also slight offtopic i think) can the ladder system be reset on the site, or have a way we can view monthly stats/weekly stats etc? or is that a naeeeeee

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Added DM-Deck to the maplist (will play as a 10 mins

TDM match if voted)

So for some reason, GDI and Nod are gonna go fighting senselessly in a sewage facility on another planet... (I'd really love to see it tho)

The EMP Grenade Blast can now disarm Proximity and

AT Mines.

Hitting an enemy building with an EMP triggers the

"Building Under Attack" message

The second one kinda redeems the first, but I don't think it's enough. Perhaps you should reduce it to damaging the mines instead of total disarm. By the time the defenders reach the EMP'ed building, I think it would be all too late

But I want to know how the majority of TmX and EKT beta testers feel about it first. If they could handle the EMP SBH/whatever then I guess it won't be too much of a problem...

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loads of changes here! I really hope this will rebalance some of the maps now!

And yeah, i kind of agree with the EMP mines here being overpowered. why not add a DPS effect to mines to them, instead of doing full 'damage' at once? waiting like 6-8 seconds or something could work, maybe? Suggestions, please!

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EMP nades cost 300 so theyre fairly priced, also techs/hotties can defuse mines anyway so there are better ways to infiltrate a building. multiple sbhs can now get inside buildings now, but they could anyway by sharing mines. It doesnt make much of a difference to my eyes so i think its fair. Also why do ramjet units get 2 timed c4s lol

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There's a lot of good changes, I pretty much agree with every single thing that I do not mention in this post and there's a lot of great stuff incoming, and way too many improvements to talk about them all. Great work.

WeaponDrop: Woohoo. Too bad its not on by default. I hope our popular servers all use it, but you don't give any details on how it works. My hope is that we can carry 2 primary weapons.

Smoke Grenade: Seems a bit insane. The problem I see is that there is no direct counter to this. People simply will need to use smokes to attack as infantry, but other than having a brutal defense your base defenses themselves will be useless. Its beta, so we can give it a try. We always have mines... but wait.

EMP Grenade: I thought there was a pretty heated topic on that discussion against this change. Mines being disabled by EMP grenades is just a gigantic no-no. Mines, if nothing else, LACK power, they need to more reliably deal their damage. This is a big nerf to mines. There are plenty of ways already to go around them. Mines are there to prevent solo infiltration to be too powerful and its very important in a game like this.

Why is the Flak Cannon getting buffed of all things? That seems very, very odd.

Why in all heavens would Sakura and Havoc get an additional timed C4? Again, a very odd decision.

The decreased ramjet damage against vehicles also makes little sense. The primary role of ramjet is to keep light vehicles at bay, prevent mindless artillery and air vehicle spamming. You added nothing to fill that role. The nerf makes no sense at all.

The ramjets gets a double nerf, and thats bad. You nerf the damage against infantry a lot. Thats fine, you were done. The nerf is over. Taking 3 shots without headshots for tier 3 infantry and 2 shots to kill anything else is a lot to make the class a more sniper-class and less of a can-do-anything class.

Unfortunately you also completely nerf the hipfiring ability. Which is a HUGE nerf on its own as well

The ramjet deserved a nerf, but this is way too much. Every single aspect of the weapon was nerfed for no reasons, plus you're killing the arcade nature of the weapon. My suggestion: Don't give it hipfiring spread, don't nerf anything but the damage against infantry.

If you want a middle-ground suggestion: Only give it spread when hipfiring while moving (so you can stop moving and shoot with perfect accuracy). With this, the gun is not made useless in an arcade-speed battle, but has a bigger risk ratio (and requires a bit more skill).

EDIT: And forget entirely about giving the ramjet damage to heavy vehicle. Thats crazy.

The release is still a month away so I hope those things are analyzed and maybe tweaked before release. Otherwise, thanks for the 100+ good changes and fixes this patch brings, its quite a lot and I'm excited about weapon drops.

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I was about to go to bed...I really was.

Added auto patcher to the launcher

Good, people are pretty lazy nowadays when it comes to manually patching their stuff.

When you get killed the camera now rotates towards your killer so that you can see what direction you were killed from

...I'm pretty sure you just haphazardly nerfed the 500 sniper. The point of it is to be stealthy and not have everyone know where you are.

Added Smoke Grenade. Spawns a SmokeScreen that blocks targeting and Line of Sight from Base Defences.

But can you target beacons through it? Could be easily exploited to cover beacons if you can't.

You now get 10 damage per sec when standing on an active air vehicle to prevent vehicle surfing

Hopefully that's just for air vehicles. Transport helis can now truly go back to being just flying coffins now.

Stolen vehicles dont count towards the vehicle limit of either team anymore

Doesn't that sort of kill one of the main strategies used in Ren? That's kind of big.

Decreased beacon disarm reward from 300 to 200

Lol, what? Shouldn't it be a decent punishment in points for the enemy since it's kind of expensive and frankly easy to spam on high-Eco maps?

The EMP Grenade Blast can now disarm Proximity and AT Mines.

I followed that topic; there was an overwhelming majority that shot down this idea, as being able to mass-disable mines can get very ridiculous very quickly. It may set off a building under attack message, but if there's no damage done to the building an overwhelming majority wouldn't really check it out. By the time anyone got there, it'd be too late to do anything. At least infantry sharing the damage of mines meant they were all weakened for defenders, now they're all at full health.

Havoc/Sakura get 2 timed C4s

Devs need to provide some logic behind that decision. I know they're technically commando units, but as snipers in multiplayer this doesn't make much sense. If anything, give the anti-vehicle 1k infantry 2 timed C4 so they're more efficient at blowing things up for their cost. That, and maybe it would seem like Hotwires/Techs had less of a monopoly on building destruction.

"Laser ChainGun"

I'm pretty sure you just buffed a weapon that was already extremely powerful.

Ramjet Rifle:

Decrease of damage to 150, nice. I analysed the Ramjet Ina. Topic already and said that's exactly where it should be so that it had a logical progression of damage like the 500. Kudos

Increased Heavy armour damage: Um...you all do realise that 30hp of damage at less than a second between shots means that the Ramjet can pull off 90 damage in 3 seconds to tanks. The PIC does 85..and has 3 seconds between shots. You know what the Ramjet can do that that the PIC can't though: Outrange tanks, snipe infantry from extreme distances, and hold its own vs. groups of infantry in CQC. The PIC is becoming dangerously close to pointless.

Decreased light armour damage: I really hope that goes away, the Ramjet is all that stands between light vehicle spam being the end-all-be-all late game. At least give the PIC the buff it deserves (~100 damage up from 85) if we're going to have a Ramjet that can outrange and fight all vehicles now.

Volt Auto Rifle.:

I'll have to wait and see what this charged alt fire is, but it can't be any worse than whatever the hell the current alt-fire is. Granted, I would have hoped to see differentiating alt-fires for Nod and GDI.

Field:

...meh, it was already easy to infantry rush from the tunnels, but now I feel like it'll be outright idiot-proof.

Goldrush

No specific mention of whether the ability of GDI to get outside of the map was fixed.

This silo...I hope it's infantry only, that way it's an actual choice that impacts gameplay vs. this thing that just serves as a gateway for the winning team to win harder.

....Yeah, I guess it's good otherwise.

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So the changes with Havoc/Sakura/Ramjets is all meant to work together to make them better infiltration (commando) units capable of actually being a good alternative to getting a hotwire/techy to take down buildings. Granted 2 timed C4s are not enough, but that one extra C4 gives you the chance to be more useful as a havoc/sakura.

We wanted to shift the role of Havoc/Sakura from an annoying super sniper to a commando/infiltrator unit. Ramjet is a love it or hate it weapon, and there is definitely a problem with it. Ramjet's main reasoning for being very high light armour vehicle damage was stated in the beta days of C&C ren to be a counter to air vehicles because they couldnt get homing missiles working quite right. We have many counters against anti-air especially with homing missiles in the mix. That leaves only the MRLS/Arty as a threat, but the light armour nerf is not enough to not make it useful against light armour targets. It simply takes 3 more shots to take down the same unit. In response to the big nerf on infantry, and the smaller nerf on light armour, it does get a buff in the heavy armour division allowing it to be a bit more useful at finishing off low health vehicles. The damage to heavy armour is not a huge boost, and if you do try to take down heavy vehicles with it, you will use up almost your entire gun to take down a tank at full health.

So to summarize, Havoc/Sakura are no longer anti-infantry killing machines only, they are now useful against both buildings and vehicles because of both a boost in damage to heavy armour, and also getting an extra timed C4; essentially becoming a commando unit rather than a sniper class.

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Which means you overlap the roles of anti-vehicles to multiple high-cost infantry, make the PIC even less attractive, make heavy vehicles' health go down from ramjet spam and make light vehicles tougher to take down. Artillery spam is incredibly dangerous and a havoc alone can barely harass them with repairs already.

All that for a commando-role that is FAR better attributed to mobius/mendoza, which already serve that role for powerful infiltration and might even have deserved the 2 timed C4 buff.

And why would you want a commando that can't even hipfire his ramjet effectively at close range?

Move the commando role to Mobius (though they don't even need 2 C4 either) and keep the light nerf on Ramjet against infantry and nothing else, so as to not destroy the vehicle balance and high-tier character balance.

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I like some of the changes, but some i'm not convinced others are good changes, and I agree with the majority of what has been posted.

- the EMP grenades disabling mines is a silly idea that's just going to bring SBH cheese to a whole new level.

GDI already have a hard enough time dealing with SBH nukes and keeping them out of their base,

Precision and strategical placement is needed to mine against them. But this is nullified with this change.

-nerfing points for beacon disarming.

Why? A substantial points reward should be given to the team that disarm a beacon, and the other penalised. Careful decision needs to be chosen when deploying a beacon, this negates this.

-laser chaingun is already OP now, and you're giving it a buff. Not sure if this change was needed.

Also:

Has there been any attempts to rectify vehicle clipping, like stanks driving through and underneath Mammoths and medium tanks?

Vehicle explosion freezes, any headway on this issue? I rarely get these since i upgraded graphics card, but it seems numbers of people still experience these.

Will there ever be the ability to give control of your vehicles weapon to a passenger if you're the driver. Original Renegade had this when you pressed 'q'. I used to use this especially when driving an APC.

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Which means you overlap the roles of anti-vehicles to multiple high-cost infantry, make the PIC even less attractive, make heavy vehicles' health go down from ramjet spam and make light vehicles tougher to take down. Artillery spam is incredibly dangerous and a havoc alone can barely harass them with repairs already.

All that for a commando-role that is FAR better attributed to mobius/mendoza, which already serve that role for powerful infiltration and might even have deserved the 2 timed C4 buff.

And why would you want a commando that can't even hipfire his ramjet effectively at close range?

Move the commando role to Mobius (though they don't even need 2 C4 either) and keep the light nerf on Ramjet against infantry and nothing else, so as to not destroy the vehicle balance and high-tier character balance.

You're automatically assuming the changes are all extreme. We never said hip fire spread makes it impossible to use in CQB. Its subtle to the point where it can still be used for mid ranged engagements but will not always be smart to do that at mid to long ranges. Same with damage values against both light and heavy armour. Mobius can already take down a building solo, why should his class be shifted to a commando? He is already one of the deadliest units to come across in CQB and that includes anti-building functionality. The problem lies with Havoc/Sakura/Ramjets. We've had many discussions and kept changes fairly subtle to make sure the characters can still be used for the purpose of what they originally were. They will not hunt down tanks, you'd be stupid enough to do that, PIC is still a far superior weapons. I stated in my earlier response that the ramjets can be used to finish off heavy armoured vehicles at low health. PIC/Railgun are far suprior against vehicles than the ramjet, and are also the only weapons that can one hit kill free infantry. There is absolutely no de-buff to the PIC/Railgun with the buff/de-buff of the ramjet because the de-buff and the buff are designed not only to cancel each other out, but shift the role of the character class as a whole to a high level infiltrator.

As per the EMP grenade disabling mines, this is something we're still testing out, but I think a good compromise would be to have them slowly disarm mines over the course of the effect so that characters cannot instantly walk past them. The thing with EMP grenades taking out mines is that you can only pull that off in a coordinated situation since you get only one EMP grenade which replaces your C4. Same thing is true with the new smoke grenades, they are most useful in coordinated situations.

We did intentionally make these changes because we found that a lot of times infantry are unable to infiltrate bases, especially on some of the tighter maps, and with some servers having unnecessarily high mine counts it can spoil the experience to those who prefer infantry gameplay.

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Holy shit what the fuck are you guys doing adding random spread to the sniper rifles. What the fuck is wrong with you rofl. There should be ABSOLUTELY no spread on the sniper rifles. Why punish skill. Why the fuck is making all of a snipers fights a fucking GAMBLE a good thing? That is NOT fun. This is such a STUPID idea and when I come home today I'm gonna SHIT on all of your defenses for this idea Havoc.

This isn't counter strike or Call of Duty. The gameplay is fast paced and revolved around PROPER AIMING and when the gunplay is based off of arbitrary RNG then it's no longer FUN. This isn't a hard concept. It's not that fucking hard to think about.

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My point with Mobius was just that they already filled the commando role. You're right, they don't need another C4, but why make Havoc do what Mobius does better?

I'm not assuming all changes are extreme, but you don't need extreme changes when you change the class which might be the very core of the game since 2002 and any changes to it can shift the balance of the entire game.

I'm simply looking at the core balance changes that all this brings:

-Heavy vehicles loses an important benefit of heavy armor, that is, that nothing fast and long range can get you. Instead, all that can hurt you is either close range, or missile-based, in other words, can be avoided.

That is the reason why PICs are very powerful against heavy vehicles, but thats fine, because they have many weaknesses for that one strength, and still PICs aren't very long range.

Now, despite using a heavy vehicle, you can get harassed from any range, and yes, the ramjet doesn't fire fast, but 30 damage per shot gives them a more significant DPS than it looks that is FAR enough to force heavy vehicles to stick to cover for them.

This is a very serious difference.

-One ramjet can barely put enough pressure on an artillery being safely repaired. Any nerf to the damage changes their effectiveness quite a bit because of that.

-Good air-rush are incredibly powerful and underestimated. Lowering the damage of ramjets does a lot of bad. The only other non-sniper counter are rockets, but they have a lower DPS than the ramjet had, even against light vehicle. They can also be avoided. It -is- a significant change to air balance.

-The change to infantry damage dramatically reduces their effectiveness. That is the one change (we) both accept.

There are lot of shifts in balance you don't discuss.

But what I don't understand is, what for? All of this for a commando role that is already filled by Mobius?

Whats wrong with Havoc being the long-range anti-light vehicle and anti-infantry its supposed to be? This is a very important question, and I cannot for the life of me figure out.

Besides all the questions of game balance, I don't understand why any of it was deemed necessary. All we ever wanted was to make the Havoc class less frustrating to play against. Hence, we nerf the damage to 150. Everyone agreed the ramjet was overpowered because of one shotting kills. But thats it. You're shifting the game's balance dramatically for reasons that I can't understand.

Even the nerf to damage might be too much. The game's balance is perfectly fine with it, but not everyone loves it. So we change it, but even just that is a risk. I even accept trying smoke grenades, I'm skeptical, but maybe it'll make defense-maps more fun. We're already taking a lot of risks.

But we need to keep the game together.

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not bad,

will see how things turn out once the patch kicks in! thanks for the efford you guys put in this game since so many years!

-

emp grenade to disarm mines is not a bad idea , however imo it would be better if the mines are temporary disabled for like 5 seconds and then function normal again. But players can see mines dissapearing in that time period ofcourse. ( so the main focus of emp grenades remain taking out tanks and not clearing mine paths )

-

making flame tanks slighty stronger against infantry sounds mad though, maybe a little bit more dmg but thats something we will see once the patch goes live..

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Orcas and Apaches must be nerfed. Their HP needs to go back to 300.

FPS freezing upon vehicle explosions. Please, please, please fix this!

We need to be able to disarm teammate's mines as well, not only our own.

Engineer classes need to be restricted from using sidearms.

Shotgun needs a slight nerf in damage.

Ramjet hip fire spread is an unnecessary nerf and should be reverted. Skill should always be valued more than randomness.

EMP grenades needed no kind of buff whatsoever. The ability to disarm proximity mines will make SBH way too strong.

AT mines could use a slight damage increase. They currently aren't too attractive to use knowing that they can be destroyed by damage and by only dealing 200.

The mine count flashing when mines vanish would be extremely helpful.

Adding a toggle fire option on the options menu would be much appreciated.

Please return the screen shake upon taking damage as it was in beta 2.

~

I'm looking forward to driving buggies and hummers. Thank you devs for the hard work!

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I wonder how Havoc/Sakura with a heavy pistol will do against a MCT. Wonder if it will be possible to kill a building.

Also interested in other gameplay mechanics. The emp vs mines thing, sounds interesting only because it gives building damage warning which was a wise choice as it at least alerts team. Still think beacons and the emp nade should take place of timed c4, as this would balance SBH.

This sounds like a really game-changing update, which can be good or bad, but all fingers crossed for it to be good.

Also, I don't think Havoc/Sakura, unless they can kill building with heavy pistol or some other magical bullshit, were buffed enough. I would have settled for faster time between shots. Getting double bodyshot deaths faster than you would with a 500 sniper, would be a better advantage than random bonus c4 or bonus heavy armor damage that is still mostly negligible. However, I do understand they were too OP against infantry and light armor so I must see how different they are now.

EDIT:

As per the EMP grenade disabling mines, this is something we're still testing out, but I think a good compromise would be to have them slowly disarm mines over the course of the effect so that characters cannot instantly walk past them. The thing with EMP grenades taking out mines is that you can only pull that off in a coordinated situation since you get only one EMP grenade which replaces your C4.

Does this mean beacons and timed c4 are already replaced with emp and smoke nades? If so, that is really good to hear. Also, it WOULD be nice if it would take the entire EMP's effect time to disarm mines. That way, it still works en bulke and creates need to spread mines instead of clump, new gameplay strategies and such, but it isn't a cheese way to insta-snipe a building.

Still think a weak repairgun secondary weapon would be welcome to hybrid strong primaries as engineers, while keeping some strong expensive secondaries to hybrid t2 techs/hotwires as combat classes. But with EMP nades, at least you don't need a whole lot to get through mines.

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I don't think EMP takes beacon's spot...

But if it does take C4's spot, I guess that would be much better. The only problem I just realized is that Tech/Hottie is not affected since both their C4s are in different spot. Instead they'll just replace Proxy with EMP

About Ramjets shifting to Commando, I believe it's possible that this change would psychologically decrease the amount of super snipers in front of the enemy's base

All that for a commando-role that is FAR better

attributed to mobius/mendoza, which already serve that

role for powerful infiltration and might even have

deserved the 2 timed C4 buff.

I dunno if it's a good idea to instead do it to Volt Rifler. That would make them OP without considerable nerf as they'd be able to solo a structure. Ramjet wouldn't be able to do so quickly without a help And I don't think I wanna see a weak volt rifle

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DOT for EMP nades is nice and all, but why no nerfs at all the EMP-nades? After following that topic I'm fairly certain there was a mutual consensus that with their current ability to let one person single handedly pause rushes, EMP nades were kind of game-breaking.

Orcas and Apaches must be nerfed. Their HP needs to go back to 300.

Somebody listen to this man; if the devs think the 225 credit rocket launcher is sufficient anti-air, they've obviously never played their own game.

As for the Ramjet getting a hip-fire spread, I'm in full agreement with Ren not needing any random numbers to determine fights. They're negligible when you're firing a hail of bullets and the spread is tight, but with single-shot it's like rolling a die.

The heavy armour damage is supposedly just so you can 'finish heavy armour off' but you forgot to finish that sentence. 'So you can finish heavy armour off from anywhere you can see it!". I have a feeling that 'Havoc Rushing' is going to be making its way into my guide here, now that 5 of them can kill a Light tank before it ever gets within range of them. Jake brought up a good point that the biggest advantage of heavy armour is having nothing instantaneous that can harm you, save for the PIC/Obelisk. This is what made the PIC worthwhile, not its 'okay' damage.

If anything, if you really wanted to make Havoc a commando class, you'd have scrapped the Ramjet and given him a silenced automatic weapon similar to the carbine. A 1k infantry that was good vs infantry and had explosives would be tolerable. One that can do what the other classes can do is kinda pointless.

Always said we needed more differentiation in infantry...I see we're getting the opposite of that though.

---

Engineer classes need to be restricted from using sidearms

I see I eventually won that fight =3.

But seriously, this is the first place where balance was broken, and now it just seems like it's sliding downhill with no plan on stopping.

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For the love of god please don't add random spread to SNIPER RIFLES in hip fire. The fuck is hip fire in an arcade shooter anyways.

Come on. Havoc don't do this. I have a huge thread already why RNG spread is bad. Did nobody on the dev team read it? I guess I'm not surprised.

0 spread. 0 fucking spread.

Normalize shotgun spread too FFS.

EDIT: I'm so fuckin mad right now. God damn it. Why punish your top players in your game?

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Lowering the reward on beacons is a bad idea, it's already rare enough to see people switch out of their character for a hotwire to disarm one, and the reward basically paid for the hotwire. If anything had to be changed about the reward it should have been in increase in points.

The ramjet/sniper CoF also doesn't make any sense. The only reason provided was basically to prevent people from making long range shots without scoping? That doesn't seem like it was an issue at all, and is completely counter to the role you want the hav/sak to play.

The damage nerf was overboard, should have been in the 175-190 range. Prevent body shot 1hits but leave TTK basically untouched otherwise. For infantry only, light armor damage should have remained the same (the heli armor buff was already too much)

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Lowering the reward on beacons is a bad idea, it's already rare enough to see people switch out of their character for a hotwire to disarm one, and the reward basically paid for the hotwire. If anything had to be changed about the reward it should have been in increase in points.

The ramjet/sniper CoF also doesn't make any sense. The only reason provided was basically to prevent people from making long range shots without scoping? That doesn't seem like it was an issue at all, and is completely counter to the role you want the hav/sak to play.

The damage nerf was overboard, should have been in the 175-190 range. Prevent body shot 1hits but leave TTK basically untouched otherwise. For infantry only, light armor damage should have remained the same (the heli armor buff was already too much)

I don't scope. I played too much Quakelive so I can't scope and hit accurately. This nerf is HUGE for me and maybe some similar players.

Just what the fuck brah.

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I have to second the cone of fire nerf the hardest. I adore the damage nerf, 150 damage let's Mobius hard-counter 1k's chest-to-chest, which is good. Nerfing the ability of the sniper to...snipe, well what the hell? So now we WANT them to be most effective at short/medium range?

I'm still under the impression that we don't need 2.5 sniper rifles to begin with.

Lowering the reward on beacons is a bad idea, it's already rare enough to see people switch out of their character for a hotwire to disarm one, and the reward basically paid for the hotwire. If anything had to be changed about the reward it should have been in increase in points.

That exactly. I think I ever heard ONE complaint that beacons give too many points, and it was from someone who's entire play style was basically SBH-nuking.

Normalize shotgun spread too FFS.

Meant to mention that as well. Firing the shotgun is basically akin to rolling a die, as opposed to caring about how well you were aiming.

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-Lowering the reward for disarming a beacon would mean sbh will not fear placing more nukes cuz of the score( not including marathon servers)and its not really fair reward for someone who switched his char to hoti/tech or engi .

-As for emps disarming mines , its not that bad if a sbh and tech/hoti lose the c4 (it can only work in organized rushes as what was said),but emp are already too good and useful for other purposes like stopping veh rushes and after planting beacons.

-Ramjet 150 damage is too much nerf , 180 would be good at least not one hit kill(so a free inf being hit first time can hide), 150 damage means at close range a shotgunner vs ramjet (pro sniper) is a 50/50 match or even worse.Also they should depend more on skill than random hits (aka luck).Not to mention with the decreased light veh damage, Orcas/Apaches will be close to unstoppable since havoc/sak was the only thing keeping them from running all over the place,yeah not to mention arti/mrls that already can be repaired faster than they are destroyed,and buggy/humvee will be more dangerous (for rushes also).So the whole ramjet nerf other than no 1 hit kill for free inf is ... a no.

-death cameras turning to the direction of the killer,while maybe good for suspecting glitchers or hackers ,kills the suspect of hiding snipers (in other words, 500 sniper nerf) ,but its not a bad idea at all.

-At mines should do more damage or at least shouldn't be disarmed if they take damage.

-Weapon drops ...glad it can be enabled or disabled by the server admins, i hope servers don't enable it,cuz inf battles will become hilarious.Maybe enable this in some server s for those who like it.

That's my opinion.

Appreciate the hard work of the devs,keep up the good work.

Peace!

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Nice to see this list of (possible) changes. I'll try and feedback in a questionable way to spark more discussions :D

What will be the (effective) infantry counter to choppers?

It looks like the n00bjet / luckjet (yay new name?) still fills this spot. The basic rocket launcher is no match for the boosted HP of the choppers (300 -> 400) with its 55dmg. I feel like some mid-range infantry still need some kind of adjustments.

Will the warning "building under attack" work for the EMP?

Unless someone actively watches the mine count, people will hover over the 100% building and walk away. It requires a high-skilled player to change its plans and go look.

What is the role of the PiC / RJ now?

It seems that the PiC / RJ are still the weaker $1000 class. In my experience, the PiC / RJ should be the anti-vehicle / aircraft tool. But for aircraft the range is too short and for tanks the fire rate is quite bad. I would like to see some love for this class, eventhough it can 1-shot free infantry still, this is not the goal of the PiC / RJ (maybe it will be in B4?)

$1000 sniper vs hotwire/tech?

The change to the $1000 sniper as a commando sounds appealing, but there is a class that already is superior in this role: the hotwire/tech. They carry enough explosives to destroy a building and have the option to disarm mines / carry effective weapons like Carbine. I feel the Hotwire/tech is still superior in this aspect and that the changes to the luckjet bring nothing to carry Havoc over a Hotwire. I see the Havoc now more a "maximum utility sniper annex everything possible".

Are all changes to maps good?

  • Field: I am curious about this one. The extra options for infantry are both appealing as scaring. The additional options in the field sound fun and interesting to use, but the removal of the barriers opens the Refinery instantly to easy engineer rushes. I experienced these games in Field where Nod lost the Refinery to a GDI engineer rush in the 2nd minute and it became a complete stalemate.
  • Xmountain: hurray, map fixes always welcome to prevent abuse, like in a few games where GDI jumped off the mountain to destroy half Nod base without triggering mines.
  • Mesa: hopefully it is played more now :)

Removing your own mines?

So I can remove my own mines with left fire, ok neat. But as I recall, the repair gun has no right button fire. Also, in most cases the better players find wrong placed mines and now they need to find the one who placed them and convince that player to get a repair class to remove them. Sounds kind of like a lot of work.

Hurray to new maps, other changes and flying buggies!

^_^

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This is my idea, and of course, even if this is accepted by everyone and some day makes it into Renegade X it won't be in B4.

Everyone is complaining about the Havoc nerf (random spread over all). We must test it but god, I can understand the damage nerff, even if150 is too much, 180 would fit nice so you'd need a ramjet shot + pistol shot to kill a unit giving hime some more time to react (they are Tier 3 units, shouldnt be easy to kill by free units) but the random spread... No, please devs, don't do that as a lot of people said Renegade is a skill based game, luck has no option here (well a bit in some rushes or sneak in tactics, but no with snipers).

On the other hand I was thinking in the multiple C4 for Havoc/Sakura and I had an interesting idea, at least for me. Here we go:

What about keeping the current Havoc/Sakura as it is now, with the damage nerf and make that "Commando" class like the different outfits Renegade had? Let me explain. Default Havoc is the main anti-air unit with the ramjet and the main long range anti-infantry. Then we would have the option before buying havoc to change to the other "outfit" which would have another clothes (not needed but would be nice to see some more clothes like Renegade had) and to make the commando class as it should be, it would have a silenced semi-auto sniper with let's say 8 bullets/magazine and obviously not the ramjet damage, it would could have 80-100 damage per shot and like 150-180 headshot damage as it's a sniper rifle to don't make it the favourite sniper it would have the range like the PIC/Railgun but with low damage vs light armor vehicles and basically 1-5 damage to heavy armor ones, imo that would be nice as the silencer makes the bullet go slower and in consequence a bigger bullet drop which will make the weapon a shorter range. Added to this Havoc will have the double timed C4.

Something like that is my idea, if the players like this, the other Tier 3 units could have another class with different gameplay so more strategies and gameplay styles could be made. I personally like it (as it's my idea... xP) I wouldn't like to see having only 1 class with it's role being changed almost completely and as the commando should be it would be an infiltration unit so the silenced weapon fits him. Also with this system the balance wouldn't be broken by that lot's of changes to one unit. So, what do you think? If we can give it a try to the Havoc changes can't we give this a try too? I don't know if this would be hard to implement as a dev, I know making a new weapon/outfit will take some time but is not a new whole unit, the basics are already in the game.

What do you think, wouldn't this be better and funnier?

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This is my idea, and of course, even if this is accepted by everyone and some day makes it into Renegade X it won't be in B4.

Everyone is complaining about the Havoc nerf (random spread over all). We must test it but god, I can understand the damage nerff, even if150 is too much, 180 would fit nice so you'd need a ramjet shot + pistol shot to kill a unit giving hime some more time to react (they are Tier 3 units, shouldnt be easy to kill by free units) but the random spread... No, please devs, don't do that as a lot of people said Renegade is a skill based game, luck has no option here (well a bit in some rushes or sneak in tactics, but no with snipers).

On the other hand I was thinking in the multiple C4 for Havoc/Sakura and I had an interesting idea, at least for me. Here we go:

What about keeping the current Havoc/Sakura as it is now, with the damage nerf and make that "Commando" class like the different outfits Renegade had? Let me explain. Default Havoc is the main anti-air unit with the ramjet and the main long range anti-infantry. Then we would have the option before buying havoc to change to the other "outfit" which would have another clothes (not needed but would be nice to see some more clothes like Renegade had) and to make the commando class as it should be, it would have a silenced semi-auto sniper with let's say 8 bullets/magazine and obviously not the ramjet damage, it would could have 80-100 damage per shot and like 150-180 headshot damage as it's a sniper rifle to don't make it the favourite sniper it would have the range like the PIC/Railgun but with low damage vs light armor vehicles and basically 1-5 damage to heavy armor ones, imo that would be nice as the silencer makes the bullet go slower and in consequence a bigger bullet drop which will make the weapon a shorter range. Added to this Havoc will have the double timed C4.

Something like that is my idea, if the players like this, the other Tier 3 units could have another class with different gameplay so more strategies and gameplay styles could be made. I personally like it (as it's my idea... xP) I wouldn't like to see having only 1 class with it's role being changed almost completely and as the commando should be it would be an infiltration unit so the silenced weapon fits him. Also with this system the balance wouldn't be broken by that lot's of changes to one unit. So, what do you think? If we can give it a try to the Havoc changes can't we give this a try too? I don't know if this would be hard to implement as a dev, I know making a new weapon/outfit will take some time but is not a new whole unit, the basics are already in the game.

What do you think, wouldn't this be better and funnier?

To make this work, we would need a lot of changes imo. Don't get me wrong here, these are changes everyone would benefit from. When you get killed by someone, you can often see what kind of weapon was used to do so. Why not add this to the bottom right of the HUD aswell, where everyone can see it?

Why even add this at all? Well, adding diffrent suits (i like that just for the sake of it :P) might not be good enough to show the enemy what kind of a unit you are. you could be hidden after all, or it's a dark map where the enemy can't identify you. And if you can see what weapon was used to kill you, with the type of ammo shown (like the letters Ho (for hollow-tip) or AP, HE and whatnot below the weapon image) aswell, your team can respond to it. As this game is a lot more chaotic then the original already, i think such a change could be welcome.

And regarding the changes with EMPs, Ramjets and stuff... I do have an opinion about it, but don't want to say too much about it because we simply don't know how this will work out. EMP's replace Timed C4, which makes the extra C4 on Havocs/Sakuras useless, which balances that. You will no longer see SBH C4 rushes, but if there were 3 SBH's in the GDI base, they could all be carrying nukes aswell for all i know. Field still has an AGT and Obelisk, and with moving certain buildings just a tiny buildings you can already make it a lot more difficult for them. What i think, is that the maps need a change aswell. There are so many ways to outsmart the enemy with certain mining techniques, If maps AND weapons get rebalanced in general, we could change this into something that requires more teamwork.

To summarise: Don't change the weapons only, change map design as well.

Also, devs: There should be an auto-patcher now, right? why not go ahead and release the beta prematurely and keep it open for 3 days, close it for a week or something to allow for fixes and stress the fact that TESTING(!) and OPEN BETA(!) is essential here and i believe much more can be archieved here with only a handful of testers and heated debates with only a changelog to prove their opinions.

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-The carbine Nerf is nowhere near enough. Its $125 and you can just spray-n-pray and get kills easily with it because it does so much damage.

SBH is too powerful with a silent and lethal weapon like that especially. If you're a SBH and you really wanna take someone out quiet, thats what the silenced pistol is for. The point of the laser rifle is the noise it makes is unique and loud so you KNOW its a SBH when he starts shooting.

Some characters should be blocked outright from being able to purchase the carbine unless you're going to completely retool the weapon.

-EMP disabling mines is a no for so many reasons. In fact, just remove the EMP grenade it was bad from the concept stage. You get your whole team together for a good wholesome rush and one dude can stop the whole thing in its tracks for $300!?

-Smoke grenade sounds OP.

-Give Nod a Laser Pistol in place of Heavy Pistol.

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Interesting list of changes and additions. A lot of these are amazing, but some not so much. I'll go through and list some concerns.

You can now disarm your own mines to place them somewhere else (With secondary repairgun fire you can still heal them aswell)

This is backwards to me. Makes more sense to disarm your own mines with alternate fire.

SBH and Stanks have their stealth deactivated when inside an EMP Field

The EMP Grenade Blast can now disarm Proximity and AT Mines.

Hitting an enemy building with an EMP triggers the "Building Under Attack" message

I'm worried about stealth being disabled by EMPs. I could easily see some situations where they get spammed in a choke point.

EMPs disarming mines is interesting. I think it should be a slow over time effect as other people have mentioned. Instant would be too good. It would lead to engineers just EMPing and killing a building with remotes near instantaneous. I think the idea of something to disarm huge mine fields is good, but it can't just nullify the purpose of mining.

Added check to prevent players from placing beacons inside their own base (the check is based on the spotting locations/buildings

Decreased beacon disarm reward from 300 to 200

Why? Neither of these make much sense to me. I understand that people spamming beacons in base is annoying, but there are legit uses for beacons in base. I've seen fake beacons make a team go into a frenzy searching for it. I've seen well timed defensive beacons annihilate rushes. If spam is the issue, then I feel like there are better ways to reduce it. This change just limits creativity and play styles.

Beacon points are fine at 300. A team should be rewarded for the amount of effort it takes to stop a beacon. Beacons are expensive and have the potential to kill a building. The disarming team needs to be rewarded adequately.

Increased damage and radius slightly

Reduced bouncy-ness

Added an alt fire which doesnt chuck the grenade too far

can now damage through walls like C4

Really not looking forward to this. Willing to test it first as I can't judge these changes without seeing them in action. I just don't think free spammable aoe has a place in a game with small choke points.

When you get killed the camera now rotates towards your killer so that you can see what direction you were killed from

Pretty bad for the 500 sniper. I usually play it knowing that I will be harder to track down.

Havoc and Sakura will now have multiple timed c4 as their default explosive weapons

Updated Beam to be a bit less obvious

Increased ramjet heavy armour damage to 30hp per shot from 10hp per shot to compensate for reduced infantry damage

Decreased ramjet rifle damage vs light armour vehicles

ramjet and sniper have a slight spread when hip firing

damage vs infantry has gone down from 200 to 150 so no more one hit kill on free infantry

These changes are very weird. Why spread while hip firing? I saw you said it won't impact them at close ranges, so why? 80% of my sniper shots are hip fired. I don't want to be forced to use the buggy scope that makes you move super slow. Nothing will make me rage more than missing a shot because of spread.

I don't see what adding spread is aimed at. If you are trying to nerf skill, it won't change much. Most of the really good snipers are just good at aiming. They could grab about any weapon and shut down an area of the map.

The havoc/sakura changes are also very strange. Why are you trying to shift a sniper class into a "commando". The problem here is that they have a sniper, so why would they be infiltrating bases. Why does a sniper class get two timed? Honestly these changes just reinforce what I was already thinking. The ramjet should just be removed and havoc/sak given a new interesting weapon. It's a waste of a character to have a second sniper anyways.

The ramjet will hardly be able to touch an arty/mrls being repaired now. Air vehicles will just laugh at their damage since they have an hp buff. Being able to damage heavy armor that much from any range is lame. It's going to be no fun having your tank picked off by a sniper standing on the cliff in walls.

added new blocking volumes to some rocks in the inf only area (stop wall jumping)

put blocking volumes around the large bunkers to stop people jumping dont in to the base

This is going to make the map very boring. This map already had some problems that are going to be amplified by these changes. The rock jump was actually pretty cool and grew on me.

The problem is how long and linear the infantry path is on this map. Unless you completely control it, you will end up fighting the same people 2 times before you reach the bunker. Now that you can't jump from the bunker it will be even more long. Infantry will have to fight the same people 2-3 times while trying to get through a tiny chokepoint that will likely be mined. Not to mention the rock that will be wallhugged hard. Infantry tactics will be completely shut down by a camping tech.

Honestly I thought this map had a lot of potential with some improvements. These aren't improvements, but instead steps backwards.

Harvester now gives proper kill messages when running players over.

All praise The Harvester, God of Sacrifice.

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Infantry will have to fight the same people 2-3 times while trying to get through a tiny chokepoint that will likely be mined.

I think it became like that since as far as I know, every single infantry path (with the exception of pre-beta 4 Mesa 2 , I think) always end up in mineable choke points. Take a look on Field, Island, Volcano, and Goldrush. TBH, first time I took my defense position as GDI, I met that wtf moment when suddenly WF blew while the mines on infantry path were alright

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LOVE all of these changes except the EMP disarming mines (I can forsee using them to disarm the bridge mines in Goldrush and avoiding the "building damaged" message). Also on the fence about the addition of base defenses to Whiteout, but I suppose that makes it more like the original map it was based on (which I recall often ended in stalemate - I just don't want Whiteout to become the new Field).

All in all, a great update! Really looking forward to it. Kudos to the team!

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Something like that is my idea, if the players like this, the other Tier 3 units could have another class with different gameplay so more strategies and gameplay styles could be made. I personally like it (as it's my idea... xP) I wouldn't like to see having only 1 class with it's role being changed almost completely and as the commando should be it would be an infiltration unit so the silenced weapon fits him. Also with this system the balance wouldn't be broken by that lot's of changes to one unit. So, what do you think? If we can give it a try to the Havoc changes can't we give this a try too? I don't know if this would be hard to implement as a dev, I know making a new weapon/outfit will take some time but is not a new whole unit, the basics are already in the game.

What do you think, wouldn't this be better and funnier?

The part I do like about your idea is that you want to essentially add a class in the game instead of replacing one.

The ramjet has a very important role that we are having trouble balancing (the air unit need to lose their HP buff and the ramjet needs to stay the same towards light vehicles), but if all we want is to try entirely new ideas, then fine, at least they should be that, new class or sub-class that you can choose.

I mean, I'm not sure if the idea is good or not, but at least it would be an addition and not a core replacement.

-The carbine Nerf is nowhere near enough. Its $125 and you can just spray-n-pray and get kills easily with it because it does so much damage.

SBH is too powerful with a silent and lethal weapon like that especially. If you're a SBH and you really wanna take someone out quiet, thats what the silenced pistol is for. The point of the laser rifle is the noise it makes is unique and loud so you KNOW its a SBH when he starts shooting.

Some characters should be blocked outright from being able to purchase the carbine unless you're going to completely retool the weapon.

Honestly, the weapon shouldn't do more damage than the normal automatic rifle.

Its a special backup weapon and it has HITSCAN bullets which makes it way too easy to hit with. Or at least, make the bullets have travel time instead of being hitscan.

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To clarify about the Havoc/Sakura changes: they have two timed C4s in Beta 4, which is not enough to kill a building, but enough to change the way they are played. Right now in Beta 3, I think we can all agree that the ramjet is broken. It instantly kills free infantry from unlimited ranges without any required skill - even if it's a body shot. It also rapes Orcas and light vehicles. In RenX, there are more anti-aircraft options than in the original Ren, so the ramjet needed to be adjusted vs. light armour accordingly. So in beta 4, a body shot with a ramjet takes down most of the health of a free infantry , but not all of it. This would actually give losing teams and new players more of a fighting chance, rather than being shot from halfway across the map as soon as they pop out of a building. Renegade is an arcadey game, and insta-kills with little skill are out of place.

Now if we just nerfed the ramjet, making it weaker against light vehicles and infantry, it wouldn't be worth two deadeyes. The deadeye can still headshot infantry at the same rate as the Ramjet, doing the same damage, and its projectile is far more discreet. The timed C4 idea was a way to improve this class without making it as cheap as it was in beta 3. It changes the way that the game is played, in my opinion, for the better. Instead of making the ramjet just a better, pricier sniper, it makes it a different class. It means that Havocs/Sakuras will be able to do more risky base-infiltration commando tactics rather than just stay perched far away from the action until its ammo is depleted. In situations where a losing team cannot fight against the ramjets that are raping their bases, some of those ramjets would actually be moving up, making themselves more vulnerable. If they succeed, however, they can take out most of a building. They'd still need outside help to destroy it, so they're not as powerful as hotwires, but it's an alternative that I will use. There will be moments where base infiltration will get me killed, and there are other moments where I will be rewarded for my risk-taking tactical work.

The damage against heavy vehicles and the spread are more WIP changes that we'd like to see tested. We're testing Beta 4 more than any other beta since Beta 1. If we find that EKT and Matrix don't like those changes, I have no problem with removing them. But you can understand why those changes are there. Ramjet spread doesn't mean you won't be able to shoot from the hip - it just means that you won't be able to do it from halfway across the map. As for heavy vehicle damage increase, I think it may have been nerfed slightly since this changelist was created, but we shall take feedback on that as well.

As for EMP, we like the idea of having it damage mines over time. This would mean that it would take 10 seconds to disarm a group of mines - a defending team would certainly notice its effect. Remember that the EMP is a C4-replacement, which means that SBHs would need a few friends before destroying a building. The idea behind this would be to effect mine-clusters. When the entire mine limit is being used to defend one building, it's OP. Again though, the EMP changes will be tested and potentially removed if it is not well-received. We are throwing around other ideas as well.

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Can't fucking wait for Beta4!!!! Absolutely love this changes. Thank you dev's for awesome patch coming out! Finnaly, this stupid OP ramjet's will get nerf.

You guys are thinking its way too big extreme neft for RJ but its not. Slight spread if hip fire: It will be still accurate in short-middle range, for long sniping you need aim to hit. There is nothing wrong about it! Waiting for cross turning red is not skill.

I like idea 180Hp dmg per hit. 1x rifle hit + 1-2x pistol hits to kill free units

About Orca/Apache: its very easy to destroy them with carbine. Like 3 magazines. Rocket soldier is fine to keep flyers away...well...he could be overall better againts vehicles :/

EMP nade buff: Any infantry unit should be able to disarm mines by direct hit with same speed as free engi's tool. Why? Becouse its not worth to buy any other unit! Engi,hottie,tech are very universal units. They are able to infiltrate buildings, repair vehicles, repar buildings, disarm mines, destroy vehicles and carry carbine for selfdeffence or attack. Well lets think about it. If I buy EMP... i cant have timed c4 arent I? So I cant destroy building by my own.

I think new EMP buff will be fine. You get the message "Building is under attack" which notifies you that the EMP hit mines. You wont get such a message, if hottie disarm's mine's, so she can stealthly destroy building all alone.

Sorry for the bad spelling. Iam not from english-speaking countries.

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So you ignored everything thats been said.

From who, exactly, (not anyone that actually plays this game) have you ever got the impression that the ramjet's anti-light and anti-air abilities were overpowered? Or that the game has very effective alternatives? You do know that aircrafts are crazy strong already, and ramjets are already their only effective counters?

Why use a havoc for infiltration when you have mobius? Even with 2 C4, the Mobius is probably the better unit for the job after the nerf to ramjet, especially when they don't pretend they don't need to get techs along, which are far better to actually take down anything.

The ramjet is the only viable anti-light vehicle option. You did not add anything in return. Light vehicles are all crazy strong options that only have one effective long-range counter, the ramjet. Aircrafts are actually too powerful.

The commando role already exists in the form of Mobius.

Etc etc.

The fact that the ramjet damage to heavy vehicles and long-range hipfire is even considered proves how disconnected you seem to be with your own game, and you keep telling us the same wrong things over and over. This is unbelievably frustrating. Can you communicate instead of rehashing the copy-paste arguments you already gave each other that we're already way passed.

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SFjake and Gatsu, settle the fuck down. Jesus christ, do you even preview your posts before submitting them? Show a little restraint and you may encourage the devs to engage in a fruitful conversation. But right now you sound like children throwing a tantrum because they didn't get what they wanted. The product they are working so hard on is of no cost to you, or anyone, so lower your sense of entitlement.

As for the changelist, I am thrilled to have all these changes. Some of them can't be judged until they're implemented. I think the employee triggering a base defense notification is adequate for a defender like myself to rush to the scene. I am not sold on the ram jet changes. My impression was that havoc and Sakura were high skill high kills type, not necessarily rushing into bases. But we will see how it pans out. Thanks again, totem.

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SFjake and Gatsu, settle the fuck down. Jesus christ, do you even preview your posts before submitting them? Show a little restraint and you may encourage the devs to engage in a fruitful conversation. But right now you sound like children throwing a tantrum because they didn't get what they wanted. The product they are working so hard on is of no cost to you, or anyone, so lower your sense of entitlement

+1, i was about to say the same...

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Great, play the condescending tone just to piss us off for real and derail the actual point further. You haven't seen a tantrum from me yet.

What am I supposed to say? I hate the things you've done that have no basis or reasons that makes sense and go against the Renegade spirit but I'll be an hypocrite and say nothing about it?

Sorry if I'm a ridiculously blunt guy, but I don't know any other way, and I convey the feelings I get, good or bad. I'm passionate about this game and I don't want a core balance that existed for over a decade to shift radically, for the sake of a "commando-class" that hasn't been given a good reason to be done.

I can't relay that any other way than exactly how I feel it.

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For the love of God keep this on topic. But yes, Gatsu you really should calm down...Jake is actually being fairly tame.

---

I'm sorry...but of you thought the Ramjet "rapes light vehicles" we must not be playing the same game. It does enough to support the killing of a light ground unit, and it's just capable of keeping air rushes from being the end-all-be-all. Only having a tier 1 option for anti-air doesn't really fit in with Renegade's progression system at all. At least we had two actual AA options, them being the rocket launcher and the Ramjet, but now we have one...the cheap one.

Ever notice the sudden air-Zerg whenever the barracks/Ref or PP goes down? That's because aircraft basically have no real fear when Ramjets are off the field, as the rocket launcher can both be dodged and does pretty piss poor damage that you can just duck away and heal in a second or 2. Other than that, no other weapons are capable of enough DPS and range to keep up with taking down aircraft. The Laser chaingun can try, but when aircraft are moving like they do it's extremely difficult to hold that unwieldy thing on target beyond like 30metres or so.

Most of the other weapons that are actually GOOD vs aircraft are the ones with the shortest range (shotgun, heavy pistol and Volt Rifle). Does it mean aircraft need a debuff: no not really, except maybe the removal of that random 100 hp increase. All it means is that there should remain a high-tier AA solution, and not just pretending the rocket launcher is worthwhile against anything other than the most incompetent of flyers.

Hell, if anything give the PIC and Railgun a long range alt-fire that does less damage but helps make up for the loss of the Ramjet's anti-light armour ability. Just tossing that idea out there.

---

I'm sold on EMP nades getting mine-disarming abilities, especially if servers are going to continue setting red oculus mine-limits that basically halt infantry advances. So long as it's damage-over-time, it won't be significantly overpowered. Granted...its vehicle-stopping abilities are still questionably game-breaking.

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Fobby[GEN]":hz6l3k6s]To clarify about the Havoc/Sakura changes: they have two timed C4s in Beta 4, which is not enough to kill a building, but enough to change the way they are played. Right now in Beta 3, I think we can all agree that the ramjet is broken. It instantly kills free infantry from unlimited ranges without any required skill - even if it's a body shot. It also rapes Orcas and light vehicles. In RenX, there are more anti-aircraft options than in the original Ren, so the ramjet needed to be adjusted vs. light armour accordingly. So in beta 4, a body shot with a ramjet takes down most of the health of a free infantry , but not all of it. This would actually give losing teams and new players more of a fighting chance, rather than being shot from halfway across the map as soon as they pop out of a building. Renegade is an arcadey game, and insta-kills with little skill are out of place.

Now if we just nerfed the ramjet, making it weaker against light vehicles and infantry, it wouldn't be worth two deadeyes. The deadeye can still headshot infantry at the same rate as the Ramjet, doing the same damage, and its projectile is far more discreet. The timed C4 idea was a way to improve this class without making it as cheap as it was in beta 3. It changes the way that the game is played, in my opinion, for the better. Instead of making the ramjet just a better, pricier sniper, it makes it a different class. It means that Havocs/Sakuras will be able to do more risky base-infiltration commando tactics rather than just stay perched far away from the action until its ammo is depleted. In situations where a losing team cannot fight against the ramjets that are raping their bases, some of those ramjets would actually be moving up, making themselves more vulnerable. If they succeed, however, they can take out most of a building. They'd still need outside help to destroy it, so they're not as powerful as hotwires, but it's an alternative that I will use. There will be moments where base infiltration will get me killed, and there are other moments where I will be rewarded for my risk-taking tactical work.

The damage against heavy vehicles and the spread are more WIP changes that we'd like to see tested. We're testing Beta 4 more than any other beta since Beta 1. If we find that EKT and Matrix don't like those changes, I have no problem with removing them. But you can understand why those changes are there. Ramjet spread doesn't mean you won't be able to shoot from the hip - it just means that you won't be able to do it from halfway across the map. As for heavy vehicle damage increase, I think it may have been nerfed slightly since this changelist was created, but we shall take feedback on that as well.

As for EMP, we like the idea of having it damage mines over time. This would mean that it would take 10 seconds to disarm a group of mines - a defending team would certainly notice its effect. Remember that the EMP is a C4-replacement, which means that SBHs would need a few friends before destroying a building. The idea behind this would be to effect mine-clusters. When the entire mine limit is being used to defend one building, it's OP. Again though, the EMP changes will be tested and potentially removed if it is not well-received. We are throwing around other ideas as well.

First off, infiltrating with a 1k SNIPER is already extremely powerful. It's probably the best way to take a building since you can cause a lot of -havoc- inside the building and everyone has to stop repairing or they'll die extremely quickly. I should know I do it all the time. I can't wait to infiltrate with 2 timed c4's and a carbine + ramjet, I'll be unstoppable.

Second off, the part that I put in bold is a contradiction to the concept of RANDOM SPREAD. You said it your self this is an arcade game and if you're hoping to increase the "skill" in this game then DO NOT HAVE random spread on the sniper rifles/PIC/single shot weapons. having a machine roll dice =/= skill. We don't need to play roulette and poker at the same time. If you don't get that analogy let me explain: Roulette would refer to the RNG spread of weapons (damage spread included, but this game doesn't have that) while the poker game would be the mind-set of bluffing and knowing when to play your cards (skill).

I bet this will be ignored too. What ever. If the developers don't want to listen to an ass (but an ass who is right) like me then atleast listen to Bananas, he's the best player in the game.

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