^_^

...whats that? =o Guess you will find out ;O I already see myself stepping on something and all the sudden a tank falls out the sky and I die, and I'll laugh so hard that I even think my team is hostile. Off now to run around in circles of joy until I am dizzy and run into a wall. @AngryDave, will you finally snipe me (in B4)?

I would like to see some kind of cave style thing in front of the GDI cliff. Since there will be aircraft, some tanks will be highly vulnerable to aircraft fire and by using some cover they can try and lure aircraft down to shoot those *pesky* flies better. Also your ramps probably do not line up with your buildings thanks to the coordinates implementation on the different actors / meshes. In other words, the location where the coordinates link your mesh to the word are not in the same spot on the building and the ramp (ex. linking a 2x2 square on coordinates 0,0 will be different when the world sees the 2x2 from the middle or from a corner). Nevertheless, good work If I get the chance to play this map, I'll pop by.

A few things that come to mind: 1. Basic lay-out of the HUD (mines, building indicators, etc) 2. Basic characters (soldier, shotgunner, flamer/grenadier, engineer, marksman); repairs 3. Goal of the game and ways to achieve that goal 4. Field (not the map) essentials (silo and crates) 5. The base and its purpose (Ref, PP, Vehicle factory, infantry building, base defense) 6. Advanced infantry 7. Tanks 8. Quick commands to communicate Good initiative Glacious =)

In beta 2, SBH spies were indeed attacked by base defenses, but this was not the intended behavior. This has been corrected in beta 3. Then I stand corrected here. Haven't had a SBH spy in B3 and didn't know they changed it. It is a shame it is changed I guess, since most spies are a few minutes AFK in base to wait and so people "forget" a spy was opened in the box. In the few minutes the battle can shift in GDIs disadvantage, making the SBH spy very potential.

I can agree a SBH spy can OP on "basic maps" (ones without defences), but really they are not. It is just that playing Nod makes people more confident nothing will happen in the base and the Hotwire commando's come in. In "advanced maps" (ones with defences), the SBH spy WILL be shot by defences. The Obelisk detects the stealth and therefor threats the SBH spy and zaps it to oblivion. It could be you had the situation where the Obelisk was occupied with other targets and therefor "ignored" the spy.

Nice to see this list of (possible) changes. I'll try and feedback in a questionable way to spark more discussions What will be the (effective) infantry counter to choppers? It looks like the n00bjet / luckjet (yay new name?) still fills this spot. The basic rocket launcher is no match for the boosted HP of the choppers (300 -> 400) with its 55dmg. I feel like some mid-range infantry still need some kind of adjustments. Will the warning "building under attack" work for the EMP? Unless someone actively watches the mine count, people will hover over the 100% building and walk away. It requires a high-skilled player to change its plans and go look. What is the role of the PiC / RJ now? It seems that the PiC / RJ are still the weaker $1000 class. In my experience, the PiC / RJ should be the anti-vehicle / aircraft tool. But for aircraft the range is too short and for tanks the fire rate is quite bad. I would like to see some love for this class, eventhough it can 1-shot free infantry still, this is not the goal of the PiC / RJ (maybe it will be in B4?) $1000 sniper vs hotwire/tech? The change to the $1000 sniper as a commando sounds appealing, but there is a class that already is superior in this role: the hotwire/tech. They carry enough explosives to destroy a building and have the option to disarm mines / carry effective weapons like Carbine. I feel the Hotwire/tech is still superior in this aspect and that the changes to the luckjet bring nothing to carry Havoc over a Hotwire. I see the Havoc now more a "maximum utility sniper annex everything possible". Are all changes to maps good? Field: I am curious about this one. The extra options for infantry are both appealing as scaring. The additional options in the field sound fun and interesting to use, but the removal of the barriers opens the Refinery instantly to easy engineer rushes. I experienced these games in Field where Nod lost the Refinery to a GDI engineer rush in the 2nd minute and it became a complete stalemate. Xmountain: hurray, map fixes always welcome to prevent abuse, like in a few games where GDI jumped off the mountain to destroy half Nod base without triggering mines. Mesa: hopefully it is played more now Removing your own mines? So I can remove my own mines with left fire, ok neat. But as I recall, the repair gun has no right button fire. Also, in most cases the better players find wrong placed mines and now they need to find the one who placed them and convince that player to get a repair class to remove them. Sounds kind of like a lot of work. Hurray to new maps, other changes and flying buggies!

I love you try and bring more life in Mesa(2) I think it is a challenging map now-a-days, since most people prefer sniper / commando mode over team effort to win. I would kill to see this change! Every time I run in a Nod building to repair I cannot shoot the floor to initialise some repairs, since the floor is "no part of the building". I believe the bases are put on some kind of texture to give it a base-like feeling. At Nod this resulted in this bug. In my perspective, the map will be divided into three parts now: 1. infantry cave, with vehicles able to pass over 2. Harvy route + silo (is it me or is the silo on a small island next to the tiberium field?) 3. Rush route for flamers / stanks / arty / meds / whatever Is this good or bad? I do not know. The other option would be to place the silo on the short route with a small tiberium field with it (it won't fit in the tunnel sadly). This would spread the load between harvy / silo, but put the edge on ref + silo + heavy tanks bashing on the base. In this perspective the silo near the harvy would be a reasonable idea. Also will the AGT be turned? Currently snipers from the short route can snipe in the AGT when the door is open. You mention "balancing" the bases by swapping pp and barracks, which is interesting. But if I take the long route with an arty I can shoot the new placed barracks quickly and rather safe, while with a MRLS I can only rather safely hit the refinery (again, poor Nod). Maybe see if there is a possibility to put the air tower on the other side of the landing strip? Can I vote for cookies and pictures (especially about the infantry -> pp thingy)?

Hey HappyConscript, First off, I think that the infantry route is nice designed and offers much needed ways to enter the bases. Also the tunnel below the mountain looks more functional now. If I understand correctly, there is one Guard Tower / Turret in the main entrance (where Obi / AGT was in Hourglass, old Ren) and the second Guard Tower / Turret south of the Strip and between PP and Barracks. I feel that the GT's are in a good position to counter SBH's (GT's are rather OP shooters vs infantry), however, this map is mostly not won by SBH. The main killing factor on Whiteout is the control of the hill by Nod artillery and GDI's lack of countering this camping by the GDI team and the map itself. I feel like the GT's / turrets will achieve little in this perspective of "map balance". Artillery will destroy the south turret quickly, since it is out of standard sights, and the main gate GT will be destroyed when the repairs are forced to repair the buildings. We can hold the same argument for Nod base, but since Nod is largely favoured on this map I will not discuss this part. Maybe it would be interesting to see the south GT in the middle of the GDI base, next to the small bunker that is there. I would not place it directly in front of the infantry route, since the GT has no trouble nailing infantry down that do not cover quickly. The Nod south turret I would switch with the Sam Site at the PP. This to give it more perspective on shooting incoming tanks, and then place the Sam Site at the top of the Airstrip (since the other Sam Site is on the Hand). Maybe it would be an idea to try and increase / lower the height of the mountain, so artillery / mrls can not use the flat top to hide from incoming fire and shoot rather safe. The "fight far the hill" is a nice concept, but when one team pushes the other in repairs (since you can hit all buildings), the game is in 90% of the cases over. I did not cover the use of the Obi / AGT yet, but since I read it now I will shed my light. I think that adding the advanced base defences requires (ABD) massive changes to the maps. The ABD would totally prevent the use of the infantry route and mountain tunnel. If this is an option, the "infiltration route" for infantry should be revamped again. Also there is a different worry: the height of the AGT vs the Obelisk. Why I say this is simple: will the AGT cover the mountain as good as the Obelisk? No, it will not, since it is lower. This probably shifts the map totally in Nods favour. ps. These are my thoughts about it, good luck modifying!!

There were other gamemodes in old Renegade The only one I remember was a CTF style variant which would call out "run, Forest, run" when the flag was taken. Infantry war... This would require some modifications to snipers though, since sniping is kinda easy. Advanced base defences would not be active. Yes, it was a mod, but was a fun one. About the sniper variant: servers can make that mode by making everything cost like $100.000 except for the snipers (like EKT server made SBH $550). If you want all the options into a single server, then people would need to vote double basically: once for the map and once for the game mode.

I will try and give you some help, but I am too lazy to take an own screenshot at this moment In the shot below is the MCT at the left of the screenshot; characterized by three Engineers repairing it. Basically the MCT are three computer screens next to each other and a "hand authentication" below it. Finding the MCT is relatively easy, they are either in the middle of the building (PP, ref, hand of Nod, WF) or in the end of the building (airstrip, obelisk, AGT and barracks). You can easily explore the different buildings in a single player game. Basically, the rules I use for the different characters that can repair are the following: Engineer @ building -- repair rate 1 Engineer @ mct -- repair rate 2 Tech / Hotwire @ building -- repair rate 2 Tech / Hotwire @ mct -- repair rate 4 Most repairers also repair the moment they can hit the building and then walk to the MCT, so some repairs come in before you reach the MCT. As mentioned by the others, if a building is destroyed, it can no longer be repaired and the function of the building is removed from the team. But who knows, maybe we can call in a MCV in Beta-3 and that can build new buildings

I like the amount of changes that are proposed by you, so I wanted to add one or two more things (which I hope they will add in BETA-3, but I don't know). Nuclear beacon / Ion Cannon Beacon Currently the NOD beacon is way more noticeable when deployed (the sounds is way louder than the GDI's beacon). I can understand that the stealth black hand is partly a reason behind this, but if you miss the EVA message you probably missed the GDI beacon completely. It would be nice if the GDI beacon was better heard, compared to NOD's. Also, the beacons compared to old Renegade miss the weather change (this instantly alarms the teams); thunderstorms for GDI beacon and red sky for NOD. And the clearly noticeable sound when the beacon is deployed. Implying this would make the SBH - beacon more challenging Apache / Orca The Apache has a small AoE on both bullets and missiles, compared to the Orca which has not. This leaves the Apache as the superior aircraft, especially since the window for missing infantry is even more positive since you have 6 missiles compared to 2 of the Orca. In this comparison, the Orca could use some love. Maybe make the missiles better track infantry? I don't know, but then there still is some difference between the two aircraft, so they stay unique.