Could repairs be split into veh/infatry?

[isupreme]

So.... ..   right now repairs are generic.     It works on everything.  

What if repairs all did buildings, but you purchase one type of repair for vehicles, and another for infantry.    Each having slightly differing characteristics.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am not arguing in favor of this idea.   I  merely consider it and welcome comment.

 

[Cloverton]

I always thought adding a medic would be interesting. 

[Guest once upon the time]

Eine Frage ohne es böse zu meinen: Denkst du nicht das viele und vor allem neue Spieler (falls sie bleiben) mit noch mehr Zusäzen noch mehr überfordert werden?

Wenn ich hier manche post lese wie manch einer weint weil sie als Commander abgewählt wurden oder die CP zu stark ist, kommen mir Zweifel.
CP war mit der größte Unfug der eingefügt wurde. VP ist nicht besser, aber es regen sich weniger drüber auf.
Jetzt haben noch einige den Wunsch das  "selbstheilende SBH's eine gute Idee wären.
Jetzt gibt es auch noch auf einen Server regenbogen farbene Vehicles, fehlen nur noch Raves im Tutu.
Mittlerweile ist das Spiel eine Komödie geworden.
Wie ich oft geschrieben habe, jeder hat einen eigenen Geschmack, ist so im Leben.

Google (no guarantee)

A question without thinking it angry: don't you think that many and especially new players (if they stay) will be overwhelmed with even more additions?

If I read some post here how some cry because they were voted out as Commander or the CP is too strong, I have doubts.
CP was the biggest nonsense that was inserted. VP is not better, but it doesn't make you feel upset.
Now some have the wish that "self-healing SBH's would be a good idea.
Now there are also rainbow-colored vehicles on a server, only raves are missing in the Tutu.
The game has now become a comedy.
As I have often written, everyone has their own taste, it is like that in life.

[Mystic~]

I think even more repair guns would make the game convoluted or frustrating, but as Cloverton said, maybe some sort of medic class would be useful to make the role obvious, I remember reading how one of the first modern Wolfenstein games added this class, although I never played the game itself. It can be so frustrating as a wounded infantry player knowing that hotwires/techs are mainly looking for vehicles to repair with tunnel vision and see you second unless you really get in their face. There really ought to be a command voice for "I need a medic!" with a medical cross symbol, but this line is currently just meant to be superficial character chat or like a taunt.
 

Quote

Now some have the wish that "self-healing SBH's would be a good idea.

Yes, some of us do. Leave your feedback in the corresponding thread (if you care) and don't behave like such a little bitch.

 

 

[Guest once upon the time]

Scheint so als wenn gewisse Leute immer direkt persönlich werden müssen. Schade, ein bißchen selbstbeherschung sollte  doch jeder haben.

(No guarantee)
Seems like certain people always have to get personal. Too bad everyone should have a little self-control.

[Mystic~]

I picked you out, because you described in part (badly) at least 3 points I've written posts about recently, your commenting seemed very passive aggressive and you didn't even bother to comment or provide feedback on my sbh post. I don't want to be passive aggressive, so thus I'm calling you whiny little bitch to reflect how you're behaving and I'm adult enough to tell you so, it's got nothing to do with self control and I contemplated whether or not to say anything at all. I just don't like you.

[roweboat]

Guys knock it off.

You both have valid concerns, and very different view points. @Mystic~ no need for name calling. 

Subtleties of German don't translate well to english, so if you feel he is mocking you or something, I highly doubt it.

 

@once upon the time, ich kann einbisschen deutsch typen... vielleicht dieses Leute immer nicht deine Absicht machen. Ich versteh dich,. Frieden schließen, bitte.

[Mystic~]

@roweboat- your job isn't to try and neuter the male species, you're not a moderator to my knowledge, insults have a valid purpose in language, it's not grossly hostile or offensive and it gets the point across perfectly, so kindly stay out of it. The German to English looks fine, it's a none issue.

[isupreme]

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A question without thinking it angry: don't you think that many and especially new players (if they stay) will be overwhelmed with even more additions?
 

Your question is valid.   I would agree that the changes in the game can be overwhelming.   I felt that feeling when the new HUD was released.   But i learned to adjust and i trust that other players will do the same.     The game is in development and now is the time for change, even if it is difficult at times.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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"I need a medic!" with a medical cross symbol

I like it!  but i will admit it is not hard to spot who needs help currently as the health bars are very prominent.  What is needed is a way to encourage the interaction between healer and infantry..   

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i gathered from the past that the game design did  not want to put too much emphasis on the healing of infantry.   I recall that it was reasoned as making them too powerful.   

Did i get that right and is that still true?

While i understand that line of thought, it seems like any step which encourages teamwork is powerful.    I have no problem with making teamwork the most powerful part of the game.

Edited January 18, 2020 by isupreme

[Handepsilon]

@once upon the time Please stay on topic. We're neither discussing Veterancy Point nor Commander Point

@Mystic~No need to provoke an argument

As for differing Vehicle and Infantry repair, it's a bit unnecessary I think. Here are my reasons

1. A new class would require some more HUD retweak because as of now, adding new class is impossible due to the lack of space in the visual HUD
2. A new item would probably be OP, depending on the method.
3. I agree that infantries seem quite powerful, or at least, has the potency to feel more powerful in the right player against other infantries. They have a fairly high skill ceiling, so any attempt to add specialized healing would have to take that into account
4. Not sure if any of our modeller is willing to make new model for that (blueprint doesn't count. It's literally a sheet of paper with extra polys)

[Reivax]

11 hours ago, once upon the time said:

A question without thinking it angry: don't you think that many and especially new players (if they stay) will be overwhelmed with even more additions?

i don't agree with your message, excepts this part
there are a lot of new players, yea. and i agree with one part: the new players who play since a few weeks could maybe be surprised if we change too deeply the gameplay. 

Most players can't defend the harvester when the game starts because they prefer drink a coffee in the Hand of Nod, so they don't need to be overwhelmed with new features if they already can't understand the basics

Edit: i've not really understood isupreme.. what do you exactly mean by "one type of repair for vehicles, and another for infantry."? u want a kind of healer (i.e. Hotwire who can heal infantry but not vehicles) and a repair? (i.e. Bob who can repair vehicles but not infantry)

Edited January 18, 2020 by Reivax

[Guest once upon the time]

Hallo Isu, zuerst wollte ich mich kurz bei dir entschuldigen das ich deinen Topic auch für andere Kritik genutzt habe.
Ein Vorschlag habe ich, der hängt aber davon ab was die Devs, Spieler davon halten und auch wie groß der programmieraufwand wäre:
Aktuell gibt es:
Engi, Hottie, Tech und kaufbares repairtool (für alle)
Wirkungsweise ist ja allen klar, ist für alles.
Möglichkeit:
Das kaufbare Repairtool nur zum heilen von Infantry zu nehmen. Vorteil ist das es sich auch visuell von dem anderen unterscheided. Teamplay würde wieder verstärkt werden.
Nachteil für leute die gerne mit SBH's sneaken(auch normale infantry) können keine minen mehr entschärfen oder auch Tanks reparieren.
Ich habe aber keine Ahnung wie hoch auch in diesem Fall der Progammieraufwand ist.
ist nur ein Vorschlag der auch neue Spieler nicht unbedingt überfordern würde.
Gute Nacht

(No guarantee)
@isupreme

Hello Isu, first I wanted to apologize to you for using your topic for other criticism.
I have a suggestion, but it depends on what the devs, players think of it and also how much programming it would be:
There are currently:
Engi, hottie, Tech and buyable repair tool (for everyone)
Effectiveness is clear to everyone, is for everything.
Possibility:
The repair tool you can only buy to heal Infantry. The advantage is that it also visually differs from the other. Teamplay would be strengthened again.
Disadvantage for people who like to sneak with SBH's (even normal infantry) can no longer defuse mines or repair tanks.
@HandepsilonBut I have no idea how high the programming effort is in this case too.
is just a suggestion that would not necessarily overwhelm new players.
Good night

 

[Reivax]

1 hour ago, once upon the time said:

Disadvantage for people who like to sneak with SBH's (even normal infantry) can no longer defuse mines or repair tanks.

but.. the SBH will be totally useless to sneak bases?

it makes me smile a bit to see this possibility, because i've read another topic where someone asked for self-heal for SBH

[Tytonium]

I've always thought that being able to heal infantry health and armor with a rep gun is kinda strange. I mean armor sure, but if you have a gun capable of healing broken bones and severe bullet wounds you just solved literally every medical problem in the world. I don't think rep guns should heal health. Go get a refill or a health pickup.

[roweboat]

The one possibility I see is, remove ability of rep gun to heal "HEALTH", only "ARMOR", and retool the logic so that all vehicle's HP is "ARMOR".

 

@isupreme really I think it's an interesting idea, but real implementation would simply make the game too complicated.

 

HOWEVER, I do think it's odd that some characters when taking damage, scream "MEDIC!!", but there are never medics on the battlefield 

[isupreme]

  I need a  MEDIC!! 

I can easily understand the real world limitations of implementing any vision we players have.    Totally get it.     I am not even sure it would be a desirable plan... 

but as a frequent hotwire, i see the teamwork that can occur when a healer supports infantry at the front line. 

  In my imagination i could see this leading to captains who are healers organizing rushes....  . ..  maybe..  idk.    just exploring.

I wonder if it could work like this suggestion:

Quote

Possibility:
The repair tool you can only buy to heal Infantry. The advantage is that it also visually differs from the other

The primary difference being the effect.    So basically it is a purchasable item rather than a new character.

~~~~~~~~~~~

The thought to distinguish the difference between:  "HEALTH",  and   "ARMOR" is interesting....    hmmm....

[Gex_str]

4 hours ago, Tytonium said:

I've always thought that being able to heal infantry health and armor with a rep gun is kinda strange. I mean armor sure, but if you have a gun capable of healing broken bones and severe bullet wounds you just solved literally every medical problem in the world. I don't think rep guns should heal health. Go get a refill or a health pickup.

If trying to go by lore, Repair Gun "repairs" its target by changing the positions of molecules to the original places.
If you want to know more, here's a link to C&C Wiki: https://cnc.gamepedia.com/Repair_gun

[Guest once upon the time]

Ich denke nicht das es durch diese Änderung komplizierter werden würde (wenn überhaupt technisch machbar).
Man hat ja weiterhin nur 2 tools:
Engi, Hottie, Tech können fast alles bis auf das heilen von Infantry und hat ja ein Design.
Jetzige Repair Tool würde zum "medic Tool" werden, welches ja jetzt auch schon ein eigenes Design hat.Kann auch nur Infantry heilen.
Ich glaube auch nicht das es nötig ist mit dem Kommando "I need a medic" .
Ja, und wer welche Taktik nehmen würde ist vom Spieler immer selbst abhängig. Für die Skeptiker es gibt auch EMP und halt Teamwork.
Kleiner Tip: Fragt mal alte veteranen wo es noch nicht dieses kaufbare Repair tool gab, wie dort gespielt wurde.
Ich denke es könnte ein guter Mix aus altem und aktuellem Gameplay sein. Auf jeden fall Teamwork verstärkend.
Das war es, viel Spaß beim weiteren diskutieren.Ich bin jetzt raus.

(No guarantee)
I don't think this change would make it more complicated (if technically feasible).
You still only have 2 tools:
Engi, Hottie, Tech can do almost anything except Infantry and it has a design.
The current repair tool would become a "medic tool", which already has its own design. Can only heal infantry.
I don't think it is necessary with the command "I need a medic" either.
Yes, and who would use which tactic is always dependent on the player himself. For the skeptics there is also EMP and teamwork.
A little tip: ask old veterans where this repair tool was not yet available, how it was played there.
I think it could be a good mix of old and current gameplay. In any case, strengthening teamwork.
That's it, have fun discussing further. I'm out now.

[Mystic~]

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I've always thought that being able to heal infantry health and armor with a rep gun is kinda strange. 

If anything, it should turn Ravshaw into Mutant-Ravshaw, gamma radiation and all that other lethal stuff and I'm sure the tool has a radioactive/nuclear symbol on it somewhere. So hence, maybe a medic class, supply pickup area with med kits, self healing health and armour and so on.

Some games have the ability to purchase things like stimulants, pain killers or epipens that either heal or temporarily boost health stats, although Ren's inventory is far more limited traditionally. A health kit like the Left4Dead games might be good imo.

[CL Smooth]

The existing engineers and technicians are great.  Maybe try some Tib Sun maps adding a dedicated medic class?

Medic has a custom medic repair gun, with a wider spray that heals infantry more efficiently at close range, but has no effect on buildings or vehicles.

Medic also has a First Aid ability where he opens his kit, makes the heal sound, and performs a full heal to target, but it takes some time to recharge.  Or, just a full health kit that can be dropped with a recharge.

Medic carries a pistol and tib suit (and smoke grenade?) for daring escapes.

The maps should have some reason warranting the medics, vehicle access is limited due to terrain or tib vines?

Jumpjets and Cyborgs would be so cool.  There should be a whole set of maps with the Tiberium Sun units.

[vandal33]

A repair beam that fixes machinery, disarms explosives and electronic beacons and heal infantry does seems strange but I think their main concern is simplicity. Because doing all these non-combat jobs (removing beacons/C4s, healing infantry, repairing buildings/vehicles) would just be the same if they're on separate equipment: you still need to face the C4/beacon/your teammate and hold a button. They just made it simple by combining it into one equipment.

I understand repairing split into vehicles and infantry makes more sense, but it would complicate things in terms of gameplay.

[Mystic~]

I keep forgetting this one, mentioned before, but a Healing Commander Power (Ctrl+C menu) that turns tanks and infantry emerald green in its radius and slowly repairs armour and health back to full stats over the same 15 second period - it couldn't be an instantaneous fix all as else it would be too powerful, but maybe a small boost at the start that tapers off.

I'm still liking the idea of a dedicated medic class that could heal characters or maybe revive fallen (dead) characters if you reach them in a certain time before being forced to re-spawn. I wouldn't want to see more than one or two of this type in a game tho; special unit and killing one would come at a high price/loss. I'd also want to see the existing engineer guns stop working to heal infantry if this were the case; not sure about the rep tool, still needs to be able to disarm/regenerate-armour, but maybe not health. The medic existed in both Red Alert Universe and later on in Tib-Sun.

I think separate combat engineers and medics would make things easier to understand and more intuitive than it is presently, standing in front of a beam 'gun' doesn't seem or feel the most intuitive way of healing a character.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Mystic~

[MajesticSausage]

Engies repair armour medics repair both?

[Mystic~]

1 hour ago, MajesticSausage said:

Engies repair armour medics repair both?

Engineers repair tanks only and medics would replace repairing both armour and health, but only on infantry, a medic can't do anything to a tank (unless it has a weapon)... it's a maybe idea. iSupreme's idea is for different repair guns, but I think this is too confusing or convoluted, personally.

[crazfulla]

In the original game there was only one support type. Engineers and Hotwire / technician as there is now in RenX. I agree that having a medic class would be interesting and indeed in other C&C games (RTS) there were infact medic class units that healed other infantry. Vehicle repairs were usually only done at a specific building (repair pad). But I don't think that is a good idea to add those restrictions in RenX. it would change the gameplay too dramatically and upset a lot of people (as we see from the above comment).

Edited January 21, 2020 by crazfulla