So how are Nod players handling Mammoth rushes?

[IAMTHEM00N]

I feel that rocket soldiers are kind of worthless, they do very little damage to tanks. What good are they? Gunner can counter tanks, but rocket soldiers cannot.

Also, MLRS is overpowered.

[SFJake]

I found rocket soldiers nice harassment against air. They probably should make them cheaper (I think it and McFarland could use a cost swap), for 150$ they would be worth some anti-vehicle power (which is more so useful for Nod, by the way). GDI has too many good anti-vehicle alternative. (or I should say Nod has too few)

[Harpoon]

IMHO rocket soldiers could be free in exchange for grenadier or flame soldier. That way you could still be able to at least do something against vehicles when your barracks/HON is destroyed.

[Valor]

Grenadiers and Flamethrowers aren't that bad, and you're supposed to suicide rush as engineers and try to c4 the vehicles.

[sterps]

Airstrikes should NOT be removed, they add to C&C atmosphere of the game. They also make the game more dynamic and are an excellent addition.

I can't stress enough, how the games would pan out in Original Renegade. Siege's that lasted hours...Nod siege's being unbelievably hard to break. Now imagine if airstrike's were in the original Renegade. This situation would've occurred so much less.

I'm still yet to see them used in an OP manner, maybe it's just the servers i play on.

I think people need to listen for the enemy EVA announcement of 'airstrike on route', if they're in a large grouping of units, put 2 and 2 together and scatter from the area. More often than not, you will dodge an airstrike.

If they are to changed i think a price increase is all that is needed, maybe a cool down timer after use.

But not too expensive, if they were made $2500, i would expect them to strike immediately. Imagine spending $2500 every time you purchase an airstrike and have only a 25% hit rate. More often than not, your airstrikes miss.

No one will buy them, and that shouldn't be idea when trying to nerf them.

[Letty]

As for airstrikes, I believe the Nod and GDI are equal in dignity. Its just that GDI has so many big, heavy vehicles, it gives Nod's airstrike the advantage.

Nod airstrikes are demonstrably stronger than GDI's, though they also have a random element. A Nod airstrike will usually leave a Mammoth at around 10% health or less (with about a 30% chance to kill it) if the airstrike is targeted on the Mammoth or in close proximity. A GDI Airstrike will almost always leave a Mammoth at 25-35% health unless the mammoth is specifically moving from the first line of explosions into the next.

Of course this is mostly moot since GDI's airstrikes are normally targetted against Nod vehicles, who have nowhere near the HP of a Mammoth, but the point stands that Nod's airstrike is better.

I found rocket soldiers nice harassment against air. They probably should make them cheaper (I think it and McFarland could use a cost swap), for 150$ they would be worth some anti-vehicle power (which is more so useful for Nod, by the way). GDI has too many good anti-vehicle alternative. (or I should say Nod has too few)

Nod's Laser Chaingunner is quite effective, though a bit low on range for some maps.

IMHO rocket soldiers could be free in exchange for grenadier or flame soldier. That way you could still be able to at least do something against vehicles when your barracks/HON is destroyed.

God no. Grenadier and Flame soldier is your anti vehicle. Rocket soldiers as a $0 class would pretty much make aircraft useless.

[R315r4z0r]

Just because an airstrike can stop an enemy siege doesn't mean it doesn't require teamwork. You pretty much need teamwork to destroy the enemy base. Even if you destroy an enemy siege, the enemy still controls the field unless your team moves in to take it. Airstrikes don't leave that big of an opening unless the attacking team is stupid about their formation.

I've honestly not seen an airstrike that completely annihilated the enemy from the field. And if something like that did happen... then they deserved to lose the field. Of all of the tanks your team has and the amount of room you have to maneuver, they chose to huddle together in a corner. That's their own fault for being such an easy target.

[SFJake]

Airstrikes should NOT be removed, they add to C&C atmosphere of the game. They also make the game more dynamic and are an excellent addition.

I can't stress enough, how the games would pan out in Original Renegade. Siege's that lasted hours...Nod siege's being unbelievably hard to break. Now imagine if airstrike's were in the original Renegade. This situation would've occurred so much less.

I'm still yet to see them used in an OP manner, maybe it's just the servers i play on.

I think people need to listen for the enemy EVA announcement of 'airstrike on route', if they're in a large grouping of units, put 2 and 2 together and scatter from the area. More often than not, you will dodge an airstrike.

If they are to changed i think a price increase is all that is needed, maybe a cool down timer after use.

But not too expensive, if they were made $2500, i would expect them to strike immediately. Imagine spending $2500 every time you purchase an airstrike and have only a 25% hit rate. More often than not, your airstrikes miss.

No one will buy them, and that shouldn't be idea when trying to nerf them.

Some servers run it with 2500$ and its a HECK of a lot more fun. If there's a siege, break it. Don't go buy an I-win button, nevermind spamming it in the chaos and I eventually just get hit because oh look, that time I just never heard it, how fun. Or I just arrive somewhere without any idea and boom, I die 'cause airstrike was aimed there apparently. 1000$ down the drain or some such. This kind of crap is what I'm trying to avoid.

Airstrike is an excuse to not have people work together, it utterly kills beacon fight when someone uses it (why have an intense stand off, just call airstrikes, you'll win), it single handedly breaks siege and screw people over.

Oh yeah, great mechanic. I don't want it nerfed, I want it gone. Atmosphere? Sure, it adds atmosphere. Never was the point of Renegade, though. I'm in for the gameplay. And airstrikes ruins everything it touches. I rarely see something that makes me say "uuughh... really..." in Renegade, but airstrike is that pretty much everytime. Oh hey, incredibly epic moment incomin... nevermind airstrikes.

[Soldieroffate]

IMHO rocket soldiers could be free in exchange for grenadier or flame soldier. That way you could still be able to at least do something against vehicles when your barracks/HON is destroyed.

They should remove the shotgun trooper and replace him with the rocket soldier. And from there, make the shotgun a sub-weapon...though I can't imagine the abuses that the SBHs would use from this.

[sterps]

Airstrikes should NOT be removed, they add to C&C atmosphere of the game. They also make the game more dynamic and are an excellent addition.

I can't stress enough, how the games would pan out in Original Renegade. Siege's that lasted hours...Nod siege's being unbelievably hard to break. Now imagine if airstrike's were in the original Renegade. This situation would've occurred so much less.

I'm still yet to see them used in an OP manner, maybe it's just the servers i play on.

I think people need to listen for the enemy EVA announcement of 'airstrike on route', if they're in a large grouping of units, put 2 and 2 together and scatter from the area. More often than not, you will dodge an airstrike.

If they are to changed i think a price increase is all that is needed, maybe a cool down timer after use.

But not too expensive, if they were made $2500, i would expect them to strike immediately. Imagine spending $2500 every time you purchase an airstrike and have only a 25% hit rate. More often than not, your airstrikes miss.

No one will buy them, and that shouldn't be idea when trying to nerf them.

Some servers run it with 2500$ and its a HECK of a lot more fun. If there's a siege, break it. Don't go buy an I-win button, nevermind spamming it in the chaos and I eventually just get hit because oh look, that time I just never heard it, how fun. Or I just arrive somewhere without any idea and boom, I die 'cause airstrike was aimed there apparently. 1000$ down the drain or some such. This kind of crap is what I'm trying to avoid.

Airstrike is an excuse to not have people work together, it utterly kills beacon fight when someone uses it (why have an intense stand off, just call airstrikes, you'll win), it single handedly breaks siege and screw people over.

Oh yeah, great mechanic. I don't want it nerfed, I want it gone. Atmosphere? Sure, it adds atmosphere. Never was the point of Renegade, though. I'm in for the gameplay. And airstrikes ruins everything it touches. I rarely see something that makes me say "uuughh... really..." in Renegade, but airstrike is that pretty much everytime. Oh hey, incredibly epic moment incomin... nevermind airstrikes.

The annoucements are pretty clear, i'm not sure how you miss hearing it and

It's your own fault if you run into an area that's being bombed and die.

Sometimes there are situations where it's harder to break a siege than other times. Whether that be because of losing a building or what not, airstrikes help in these respects, as to avoid situations in the original Renegade where people would just give up when say the WF/AS is dead.

As for teamwork, i've been in plenty of situations where an airstrike has been deployed in great coordination with team members.

Airstrikes don't make players not participate in team play, players choose not too.

If anything SBH's dissuade players from participating in team play through constant spam or players just point whoring with tanks, which can skew the results of games.

I also don't think a team should be able to camp/siege a base for an entire game without consequence. The airstrike counters a teams ability to camp and point whore for too long.

Like i said, i never see people spamming airstrikes, and I play across a few servers.

I understand you dislike them, but if everyone had the same mentality 'oh lets just get rid of them', then frankly what would be left of the game? All they might need is some balancing, and people are still learning the mechanics and teamplay aspects of this game.

Atmosphere enhances game play in a game... Maybe you're confused with what game play is?

Another thing to remember, this isn't a direct remake of Renegade. Things are going to be a little different in some respects.

[Letty]

The annoucements are pretty clear, i'm not sure how you miss hearing it and

It's your own fault if you run into an area that's being bombed and die.

I agree with you for the most part, but the announcements are not clear at all when the announcer can only say one thing at a time and BUILDING UNDER ATTACK BUILDING REPAIRED HARVESTER UNDER ATTACK HARVESTER DESTROYED ION CANNON BEACON DEPLOYED WARNING ION CANNON SATELLITE APPROACHING YOU HAVE 30 SECONDS 20 SECONDS ION CANNON STRIKE IMMINENT 10 SECONDS blah blah blah are being played instead of AIRSTRIKE ONROUTE.

Whenever I airstrike a group of enemies to death it's quite impossible for me to know whether they were legitimately stupid and didn't move or whether the notification was delayed until it was too late or didn't play at all.

[Terekhov]

The annoucements are pretty clear, i'm not sure how you miss hearing it and

It's your own fault if you run into an area that's being bombed and die.

I agree with you for the most part, but the announcements are not clear at all when the announcer can only say one thing at a time and BUILDING UNDER ATTACK BUILDING REPAIRED HARVESTER UNDER ATTACK HARVESTER DESTROYED ION CANNON BEACON DEPLOYED WARNING ION CANNON SATELLITE APPROACHING YOU HAVE 30 SECONDS 20 SECONDS ION CANNON STRIKE IMMINENT 10 SECONDS blah blah blah are being played instead of AIRSTRIKE ONROUTE.

Whenever I airstrike a group of enemies to death it's quite impossible for me to know whether they were legitimately stupid and didn't move or whether the notification was delayed until it was too late or didn't play at all.

Well there is a nice bright light as well. If they or their teammates are too unaware to notice the pretty laser, then they deserve to die. I'm rather enjoying airstrikes for the sheer fact that they are a 'hard counter' to stupid! Bravo devs.

You do have a point about the audio - maybe a little change in the UI could give away that there is something different (ion, airstrike) around you, though it can't be directional or that'd be too easy.

[Valor]

I've never seen the laser from the other side's perspective. Could it be graphics-related?

[Letty]

I've definitely seen it. I don't know if there is a range beyond which it's not visible or something though.

[Soldieroffate]

The airstrike requires you to stand perfectly still in an (often) exposed area before it can be used. This is more or less a death sentence, especially if you're up against seasoned Ren players.

And for those who claim they can't hear the "Airstrike en route" message, try turning down the SFX. I had to do that too in order for the voices to be much clearer.

[Megakoresh]

Mammoths are quite slow, attack them from the front AND from behind, they seem to go down pretty much always. For example I took a flame tank and burned the spammers while my team was zerging them from the front. Not a very elaborate tactics, but on pug servers you can't really expect organized teamplay.

[R3AP3R]

Well the worst thing for me as a Nod player is to face a mammoth onslaught, they just wont go down easily and they make the team vulnerable to attacks since the whole team would be busy dealing with the mammoths.

[Megakoresh]

Well the worst thing for me as a Nod player is to face a mammoth onslaught, they just wont go down easily and they make the team vulnerable to attacks since the whole team would be busy dealing with the mammoths.

That's true though, 5-6 mammoths and the whole NOD team is busy with them. I always said they are way to easy to obtain. Having vehicles like that should take team effort not just a lot of farm. I suggested before that the refinery be repurposed into providing an extra resource that would be required for these Mammoth tanks on GDI side and in smaller amounts for Flame and Stealth tanks for NOD.

If it would do that, and the passive credit gains would be, well, passive, that will also help with the problem of every match becoming super dull once the refinery goes down. I actually noticed on some servers people specifically target refineries last because of this very problem. But it is of course rare that people would care about this sort of thing. Most of the time refinery goes down, people get bored and leave. And I can't blame them seeing as it's a horrible grind for another 15 or so minutes till the end.

[zipdyad]

but raveshaw and the artillery used to be so useful yeah they may be powerful but thats why raveshaw lacked ammo and was slot and the arty was slot speed and slow attack they really should be un-nerfed if they are in this version...

[MSNSazabi]

A Rapeshaw can still help hold off a Mammoth rush, just not as effectively. I honestly didn't know the damage had been nerfed, though I saw that the RoF had decreased. 2 stanks can kill one fairly effectively as well. I was on Goldrush for a match with myself in a stank, and another team member in a stank. We held off the constant GDI attacks for some time. Between the 2 of us, we had teamed up to kill 4 Mammoths, 3 mediums, 3 APCs and someone who decided to run in with a Hummvee. There was a point where they tried a 2 Mammoth, 1 APC and 2 medium rush. We stopped the 2 Mammoths before they reached the entrance of our base. The APC was half health by the time it reached us. We took out the APC, and I ran over a couple engineers while I locked on and shot the mediums.

For the airstrike talks, why not make it something that is less expensive/easier to obtain for the losing side? It would help make it less overwhelming for a defending force, and make it more of a break the line tool for them as well. I'm not completely sure how you would go about determining the side that needs it though. I've seen matches where the side that held the enemy base entrance still lost from score. However, that is usually due to GDI base being empty and free for SBH to roam and take down buildings. It wouldn't be ideal to go just by score for maps that stay back and forth either, where neither side really dominates totally. So, again, I'm not sure how you would determine who "deserves" the airstrike advantage.

[Aircraftkiller]

NOD NOD

Remember, it's Nod, not NOD.

/Mammoths are actually pretty weak in this version of Renegade

//The extra rockets are neat, but I've had issues killing infantry with them

[HaTe]

Seeing how every capturable silo is in the field - it'd be the team that doesn't have access to the silo's extra abilities. I had previously thought about this as well, but I'm not sure its fair to give a feature to the team who didn't capture the silo - it would make the team who have the field not want to capture it in the first place in many circumstances.

Ideally, you could just make it available to the team without the silo if the opposing team has have had the silo captured for X minutes. Again, potentially problematic, but it would make the most logical sense. I'm not a huge fan on how they currently work. Again though, they are nerfed in several ways in the first patch. The pic/rave is also slightly buffed as well. Still though, I find myself agreeing with you that they should only be accessible by the team that actually needs them for what they should be used for (to break seiges).

[iran]

There really isn't much issue holding off GDI vehicles as long as you use airstrikes.

[MSNSazabi]

Seeing how every capturable silo is in the field - it'd be the team that doesn't have access to the silo's extra abilities. I had previously thought about this as well, but I'm not sure its fair to give a feature to the team who didn't capture the silo - it would make the team who have the field not want to capture it in the first place in many circumstances.

Ideally, you could just make it available to the team without the silo if the opposing team has have had the silo captured for X minutes. Again, potentially problematic, but it would make the most logical sense. I'm not a huge fan on how they currently work. Again though, they are nerfed in several ways in the first patch. The pic/rave is also slightly buffed as well. Still though, I find myself agreeing with you that they should only be accessible by the team that actually needs them for what they should be used for (to break seiges).

Changing it with the silo is a good idea, though I can see the point of non capture by the dominating team. I wonder if there is a way of balancing capture vs non capture. Maybe capture doubles/triples the cost of airstrike, but adds a significant cash incentive for holding. Not so much as to negate the airstrike increase, but enough to make it worth getting so you could afford more vehicles or support.

Whatever comes up, I think it is going to be difficult to balance it without making it so high that it is unpurchasable. I feel like it should be something that the losing team should have more access to, as opposed to a further dominating feature for the winning team.

[HaTe]

Agreed - the team under seige will normally have less credits, but they should be the ones needing the airstrike in order to push out. It shouldn't be helping the seiging team keep the field, rush, or defend a beacon. Honestly, it wouldn't be a terrible idea to only have airstrikes be able to be called in on your own team's half of the field (including their own base), and not allowing it on the other half of the field (including the enemy base).

[LegendaryPunk]

Changing it with the silo is a good idea, though I can see the point of non capture by the dominating team. I wonder if there is a way of balancing capture vs non capture. Maybe capture doubles/triples the cost of airstrike, but adds a significant cash incentive for holding. Not so much as to negate the airstrike increase, but enough to make it worth getting so you could afford more vehicles or support.

Whatever comes up, I think it is going to be difficult to balance it without making it so high that it is unpurchasable. I feel like it should be something that the losing team should have more access to, as opposed to a further dominating feature for the winning team.

Tieing the ability to the Silo (or some new tech building) is a neat idea, but I don't know if I agree with a penalty for the team controlling said tech building. The game is very straightforward now in that you are rewarded for doing the best you can at all times - part of the arcade simplicity I think. Adding a penalty to the tech buildings mixes in an extra layer of strategy currently not present in the game; this isn't a bad thing by any means, but I think it's outside of what the game is aiming for. Plus it feels wrong to punish the whole team should one individual decide to capture the building.

I like the idea of giving the "losing" team some extra tools to fight back with though. How about if air strikes are only available once the WF is destroyed? Although I guess that could lead to the other team purposefully not targeting the WF, and getting angry at a team mate who does.

How about if it is available once only one building is remaining? This way all buildings are still viable targets, and it wouldn't necessarily be exclusive to one team during the match.

[blspjnl]

Multiple silos could solve this problem...make at least 1 infantry only and add 1-2 in the field.

I think upkeep of vehicles and infantry should be included in the Credit system, similar to Company of Heroes. Heavy tanks require more upkeep than buggies/basic infantry, so a player whoring around in a Mammoth pays for his ammunition and mobile defence. The question then is: will you apply this to the whole team of the driver or just the driver?

Something like this:

- Mammoth: (Team income/Personal Income)*0.9

- Med: 0.95

etc.

[MSNSazabi]

Changing it with the silo is a good idea, though I can see the point of non capture by the dominating team. I wonder if there is a way of balancing capture vs non capture. Maybe capture doubles/triples the cost of airstrike, but adds a significant cash incentive for holding. Not so much as to negate the airstrike increase, but enough to make it worth getting so you could afford more vehicles or support.

Whatever comes up, I think it is going to be difficult to balance it without making it so high that it is unpurchasable. I feel like it should be something that the losing team should have more access to, as opposed to a further dominating feature for the winning team.

Tieing the ability to the Silo (or some new tech building) is a neat idea, but I don't know if I agree with a penalty for the team controlling said tech building. The game is very straightforward now in that you are rewarded for doing the best you can at all times - part of the arcade simplicity I think. Adding a penalty to the tech buildings mixes in an extra layer of strategy currently not present in the game; this isn't a bad thing by any means, but I think it's outside of what the game is aiming for. Plus it feels wrong to punish the whole team should one individual decide to capture the building.

I like the idea of giving the "losing" team some extra tools to fight back with though. How about if air strikes are only available once the WF is destroyed? Although I guess that could lead to the other team purposefully not targeting the WF, and getting angry at a team mate who does.

How about if it is available once only one building is remaining? This way all buildings are still viable targets, and it wouldn't necessarily be exclusive to one team during the match.

Tying it to building destruction may work. Either that or even tying it to total building damage (if that's possible.) If you tie it to destruction, I could see that causing angst in a losing team. "Don't f'n repair idiot! We want airstrike!" If you tie it to total overall building damage taken, that allows a team to repair. It would also be a decent measure of a losing side.

If you can go even more in depth, you can tie it to building damage total difference percentage. GDI has taken 200 building damage. NOD has taken 500. It falls over 50% disparity, so NOD gets the airstrike. NOD now comes back, takes the field and the disparity is now 550 GDI, and 510 NOD. The disparity is now less than 50%. So, no one gets airstrike access. Something along those lines. Again, I don't know if that is possible in the coding. That may be the best option though.

[djlaptop]

I just use engineers or flamethrower soldiers and run up behind the mammys, c4 and go. Your k/d will suffer, but two engineers can take out a full mammy in 30 seconds. The flamethrower, 99% of the time, will distract the mammy from blasting your building or your artys, etc. For whatever reason people lose focus when they see fire and target it no matter what!

[cncforever]

I just use engineers or flamethrower soldiers and run up behind the mammys, c4 and go. Your k/d will suffer, but two engineers can take out a full mammy in 30 seconds. The flamethrower, 99% of the time, will distract the mammy from blasting your building or your artys, etc. For whatever reason people lose focus when they see fire and target it no matter what!

I took out two Mammys with a Stank and find they are very useful if used correctly. The other night, I did several Hit and Runs and destroyed Mammys but if there are several rushing the base then artillery, lametroopers, rocket soldiers, C4 and Mobious are useful. However, if you are low on credits then you might be screwed.

You can also steal them if they have poor engineer support as you know. I stole a Mammy and a Medium tank in my last match but that was because they jumped out to repair.

[Aircraftkiller]

NOD NOD NOD NOD

Remember, it's Nod, not NOD.

[Mattrrrrrrrrr]

I usually just place a nuke beacon in the midfield. It sends the Mammoth Tanks running like little bitches, allowing for Stealth Tanks and Flame Tanks to take the front.

[Tactix]

C4.

They are clumsy and slow, it's easy to get in their blind spot.

[Krose21]

Mammoth tAnks are horrible, rarely seen situations were you can't just flank them and kill whoever is repairing them. Also you can just keep running at it with an engineer placing the times c4s, dyng, repeatin, makes quick work of them. Or if have minimum team work, buy an apc, have a friend throw 12 remote c4's in the front of the apc, ram it into the mammoth and blow the thing up in half a second.

[Valor]

They got nerfed a bit and people are finally starting to wise up. This is no longer an issue.