So how are Nod players handling Mammoth rushes?

[m3chladon]

Raveshaw is no where near as good as he used to be. 4 mammoths with hottys behind them are sitting infront of your base blasting your buildings, what do you tell your team to do to counter them?

[tekgunman]

I'd use an airstrike. If they're stupid enough they will stay there and get wrecked quickly.

[kuroisuki]

Exactly , an well timed and placed airstrike. Don't forget to follow up to deal the finishing blow.

At least, this works on a 12v12 server. haven't been able to counter it on the 40+ players servers yet.

Most of the time you've lost the whole field + sideroutes, and people seem to refuse to work together on the bigger servers as far as i've seen.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Guest

[sterps]

Airstrike for sure, techinician's repairing an arty and if they're very close like on field, multiple flame tanks for sure. I've taken out 2 mammoths with one flamer before and still survived.

[Valor]

At least one server increased Airstrikes to 2500. And plus, GDI can use airstrikes too when you try to counterpush, and more often because they'd have more credits due to controlling the field.

Really nothing Nod can do, which is why they lose Field so often.

Unnerf the artillery!

[Nod Trooper]

Or do it the guerilla warfare way, stealth tanks and engineers galore.

[m3chladon]

At least one server increased Airstrikes to 2500. And plus, GDI can use airstrikes too when you try to counterpush, and more often because they'd have more credits due to controlling the field.

Really nothing Nod can do, which is why they lose Field so often.

Unnerf the artillery!

This man knows what is up. They need to un-nerf Raveshaw. The 1000 credit anti-vehicle unit nerf hurt Nod way more then it did GDI. Also curious to see how the Airstrike nerf works out.

[Taramafor]

Not sure how much damage Raveshaw does againt mammoths but rocket troopers do 10 damage per shot against them. So, you know, instead of going through vehicles like a hot knife through butter, consider massing rocket troopers. Mammoths won't be able to hit infantry and you can hit them.

[ErroR]

What about mesa? Airstrikes don't work in the cave. Do they?

[sterps]

How was raveshaw nerfed?

If you want an un-nerfed artillery, go and play the original renegade, where you can just point whore, and as long as you have a techie or two behind you, absolutely dominate every single thing in the game from across the map for $450... It was never fun being GDI in these cases, most maps favoured Nod just because of the arty.

There's a reason why it was changed in Rengade X, and that is because the arty was OP in Renegade.

As for the airstrikes, i think it's Rencorner that has the $1500 airstrikes, almost no one buys them. I think a price increase for the airstrike is all that may be needed.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Guest

[Noodlesocks]

Mendozas tear through mammoth tanks. Raveshaw isn't really worth buying unless you're going to be in large open ground. During a rush, they're usually too distracted firing at buildings that they're fairly easy to C4 given their super slow speed

[Valor]

It wasn't ideal in Ren but it feels like Ren X just flipped the balance over and now GDI is OP in the maps with base defenses. Play several Field games and you'll see.

Jelly has 2500 airstrikes. No one buys them except if they didn't realize the price changed. And tons of people still think it's a glitch that they can't buy one.

[m3chladon]

How was raveshaw nerfed?

If you want an un-nerfed artillery, go and play the original renegade, where you can just point whore, and as long as you have a techie or two behind you, absolutely dominate every single thing in the game from across the map for $450... It was never fun being GDI in these cases, most maps favoured Nod just because of the arty.

There's a reason why it was changed in Rengade X, and that is because the arty was OP in Renegade.

As for the airstrikes, i think it's Rencorner that has the $1500 airstrikes, almost no one buys them. I think a price increase for the airstrike is all that may be needed.

Problem is MRL got buffed and Arty got nerfed. A lot of issues really. Grendiers got buffed and Flamethrowers stayed crappy like the original.

Nod is very underpowered atm since things like tunnel nuking are gone and it's incredibly difficult for Nod to nuke structures anymore if base defenses are up. Mammoth is the new Med tank. Raveshaw has really long cooldowns now on his shots and a reload every 4 shots. Also his damage feels really bad.

GDI was never bad in the original, but now it just feels terrible playing Nod or playing against them. Nod feels like the underdog in a game with only 2 factions. They need a lot of tweaks if GDI is going to stay as is.

[Noodlesocks]

I have noticed that Raveshaw seems to have a much slower fire rate than Sydney. I don't have the numbers for sure but Rave certainly feels the slower and crappier of the two.

[sterps]

Like i said, Airstrikes probably just need a price increase... i fair increase. but not too high.

Think about it, an airstrike is capable of blowing up to a few thousand dollars worth of units, but on the flip side get absolutely nothing as well, making them a waste of money for the purchaser. I know as soon as i hear the enemy EVA say 'airstrike on route', and i'm apart of a grouping of tanks or units, i put two and two together and fall back. 99% of time i'm right. I think people need to make this connection as well.

Airstrikes in my opinion are perfect tool for breaking base sieges.... think about all those under and field games....

I can say i've played all maps many times over, as both GDI and Nod, and i would have to say the only base defense map that GDI win more than Nod is Field. Goldrush and Mesa II is won more by Nod.

I still think people that have come over from Renegade are too used to using the Artillery as a main battle tank when it's (and always was meant to be) a support unit. The light tank and flame tank should be used as main battle tank with stanks and arties as support.

[sterps]

How was raveshaw nerfed?

If you want an un-nerfed artillery, go and play the original renegade, where you can just point whore, and as long as you have a techie or two behind you, absolutely dominate every single thing in the game from across the map for $450... It was never fun being GDI in these cases, most maps favoured Nod just because of the arty.

There's a reason why it was changed in Rengade X, and that is because the arty was OP in Renegade.

As for the airstrikes, i think it's Rencorner that has the $1500 airstrikes, almost no one buys them. I think a price increase for the airstrike is all that may be needed.

Problem is MRL got buffed and Arty got nerfed. A lot of issues really. Grendiers got buffed and Flamethrowers stayed crappy like the original.

Nod is very underpowered atm since things like tunnel nuking are gone and it's incredibly difficult for Nod to nuke structures anymore if base defenses are up. Mammoth is the new Med tank. Raveshaw has really long cooldowns now on his shots and a reload every 4 shots. Also his damage feels really bad.

GDI was never bad in the original, but now it just feels terrible playing Nod or playing against them. Nod feels like the underdog in a game with only 2 factions. They need a lot of tweaks if GDI is going to stay as is.

Again, MLRS got a buff because they were inferior to the artillery in Renegade.

Grenadier's needed a buff because they were laughable in Renegade.

I'll have to check the flame throwers out more, though they are definitely not as crap as they were in Ren.

I'm inclined to say maybe the light tank needs a buff of some sort, maybe faster, or a higher rate of fire.

Tunnel nuking was not intended to be apart of game play in Ren, but was a side effect of the way beacons worked in W3D. Nod shouldn't have an easier time using beacons than GDI, they already have SBH.

I'm not sure about raveshaw's damage, but at the moment, Raveshaw and Sydney are capable of fast swapping their main guns during reload which make them lethal for taking down tanks. This might be why someone said they think Sydney is better.

GDI were UP in vanilla renegade, compared to Nod. Going by the stats on Jelly server, there was only 1 or 2 maps where GDI won more on average than Nod. Field, city and hourglass were horrendous to play on as GDI. The artillery made Nod too powerful in vanilla ren.

[ErroR]

I don't think airstrikes should get a price increase only. I think they should be a tool for temporary area denial rather than completely wiping it. Once it's called in you get the choice to stay in the area and take the hit, risking death from repeated strikes or retreat and remain unharmed. Aistrikes should probably be less instant kill and more "oh shit, time to get out of here, quick".

That's what I usually do when I see an explosion caused by an airstrike nearby but it's usually done it's damage.

So what about a longer duration but less direct damage?

Think spitter acid in left 4 dead, molotovs in counterstrike go etc.

[sterps]

Area of denial... this defeats the purpose of an airstrike.

You're already given a warning that an airstrike is imminent, and all tanks have enough time to get away from the area of effect, given they heed the warning.

[Purdurabo]

Load up a SBH with about 6-10 mines as close to he's feet as possible then send in him as a suicide bomber along the path the tanks are coming from. Even if he is killed before reaching the tanks the mines are still there waiting for them to advance. if he is not killed it can 1shot a mammoth. Rinse and repeat until they are all dead. I also feel that the suicide bomber tactic fits right into NOD's lore.

Another useful thing is to just have some good snipers, any tank goes down easily if you kill the engineers healing it.

Also don't forget just how powerful the obelisk of light is with engineers healing it. Had a game earlier where they got our weapons factory early on and yet we held off multiple full mammoth rushes mainly due to the Obelisk.

[Letty]

Don't fight mammoths, fight the engineers.

Anything with engineers healing it = unlimited health.

Anything without engineers healing it = limited health.

[Rex]

Flame tanks decimate mammys. Get 2 flames and they can take out at least 3 mammies, 4 if the drivers are good.

[ErroR]

You get the warning but you never know where it's called to if you miss the laser.

But this is probably going a bit off topic.

[Letty]

If you are in a Mammoth you probably have a pretty good idea of where the Airstrike is being called at. Unless a beacon was just placed and an Airstrike is covering it, you are the target.

[Soldieroffate]

It wasn't ideal in Ren but it feels like Ren X just flipped the balance over and now GDI is OP in the maps with base defenses. Play several Field games and you'll see.

Jelly has 2500 airstrikes. No one buys them except if they didn't realize the price changed. And tons of people still think it's a glitch that they can't buy one.

Oh, that explains why I couldn't buy any airstrikes now...I thought the system was glitched or something.

[Daedhart]

Don't fight mammoths, fight the engineers.

Anything with engineers healing it = unlimited health.

Anything without engineers healing it = limited health.

^This

Im tired of artys always ALWAYS attacking the med tanks and mammys, blissfully ignorant of the 5 hotties behind them or the havoc in the bushes picking them down with ease.

[iran]

The developers of the original Renegade intended these sieges to be broken by dumping lots of Proximity mines on infantry and tanks and ramming them, preventing the enemy team from literally sitting at the front of your base.

I don't think it's unbalanced as it. Don't forget that SBHs can steal vehicles quite easily so GDI players can't get out and repair in the field. There's also the Airstrike which only costs $700 and was designed by the developers to break these boring sieges. Like sterps mentioned, Flame Tanks are a lot better than in the original Renegade so a few Flame Tanks can quite easily take back field control.

THERE'S also the big issue is that the new players don't yet have experience with using the overpowered Mobile Artillery. GDI tanks have more armor and some even have locking missiles, this results in less skilled players doing better with GDI tanks, just like when Renegade was first released. Once more people get experience you'll quickly see that the more powerful, with more splash, artillery will become a favorite when people get used to its weak armor and its reliance on tech repairs. From what I've heard the Nod Light Tank actually does about as many damage as the Medium Tank in Renegade X (haven't really had a chance to become familiar with the damage of tanks compared to each other yet, cause the game is so new!), which gives it a huge buff compared to Renegade.

That the game looks unbalanced to all the new players trying out the game is not to be unexpected. Give it a few weeks and people will adjust.

@Valor: Who's the handsome white guy in your signature?

Edited March 6, 2014 by Guest

[TheGroundsKeeper]

Mammoths are slow as hell, Arty's eat them up pretty fast and have a good chance of damaging the hotties in the process.

[iran]

Yes, that's two things I've noticed too. Mammoths seem to be slower than in Renegade and splash damage is a lot higher than in Renegade. Yet in Renegade X the Mobile Artillery has lobbing projectiles, which makes it easier to damage tech repairs.

[TheGroundsKeeper]

Yes, that's two things I've noticed too. Mammoths seem to be slower than in Renegade and splash damage is a lot higher than in Renegade. Yet in Renegade X the Mobile Artillery has lobbing projectiles, which makes it easier to damage tech repairs.

But harder to actually hit.

U really can't trust the projectile arc. I hate how it flattens out by itself when aiming at longer ranges.

[dommafia]

Like i said, Airstrikes probably just need a price increase... i fair increase. but not too high.

Think about it, an airstrike is capable of blowing up to a few thousand dollars worth of units, but on the flip side get absolutely nothing as well, making them a waste of money for the purchaser. I know as soon as i hear the enemy EVA say 'airstrike on route', and i'm apart of a grouping of tanks or units, i put two and two together and fall back. 99% of time i'm right. I think people need to make this connection as well.

Airstrikes in my opinion are perfect tool for breaking base sieges.... think about all those under and field games....

I can say i've played all maps many times over, as both GDI and Nod, and i would have to say the only base defense map that GDI win more than Nod is Field. Goldrush and Mesa II is won more by Nod.

I still think people that have come over from Renegade are too used to using the Artillery as a main battle tank when it's (and always was meant to be) a support unit. The light tank and flame tank should be used as main battle tank with stanks and arties as support.

A-motherfuggin'-men

[Valor]

Don't fight mammoths, fight the engineers.

Anything with engineers healing it = unlimited health.

Anything without engineers healing it = limited health.

^This

Im tired of artys always ALWAYS attacking the med tanks and mammys, blissfully ignorant of the 5 hotties behind them or the havoc in the bushes picking them down with ease.

From the arty's perspective it's hard to tell where the hotwires are. Especially in Field, you likely would not see the hotties because they would be behind the mountain from your POV. In addition, it's simply harder to aim with the arcing shells. You have to constantly look at your score to get feedback on whether or not you're hitting something. Thus, you're first few shots might miss before you find the sweet spot to fire. Lowered splash damage makes precise aim even more important.

It was much easier in the original Ren, it was certain that if you hit the tank the hotties repairing it will get damaged by splash. Not overpowered either, since they could heal each other. But I remember some good arties and techs could push actually push out when GDI is sieging them in Field.

[R315r4z0r]

How to counter mammoth rush with Nod? Flame tanks. Especially on a map with an active obelisk. Not only do the flame tanks act as an obstacle the mammy has to try and push through, the flame tanks are doing a massive amount of damage while holding them still for the obelisk to take pot-shots.

Other than that? Artillery. Especially with their new arch should make decimating enemy repairs super easy.

The largest problem at the moment is that on most servers I play on I quite honestly cannot drive a vehicle because the vehicle lag is so horrid. It rubberbands and overshoots turns, delays the firing controls... it's just a mess. So I opt to just use infantry... but that doesn't help when the enemy is pressing up the field.

From the arty's perspective it's hard to tell where the hotwires are. Especially in Field, you likely would not see the hotties because they would be behind the mountain from your POV. In addition, it's simply harder to aim with the arcing shells. You have to constantly look at your score to get feedback on whether or not you're hitting something. Thus, you're first few shots might miss before you find the sweet spot to fire. Lowered splash damage makes precise aim even more important. ...

I disagree overall. I don't think the artillery was nerfed at all. In fact, I like it a whole lot better now with the arc. I think it's much easier to use and it can hit things it couldn't in the original. You're also mistaken about not knowing what you're hitting. It's much easier to see you're hitting something in Renegade X because it has giant flashing hitmarkers when you hit something. You wouldn't know if you hit something or not in Renegade unless you watched your score. Here you can just watch to see if the hitmarkers flash. In fact, I find it's very useful for probing enemy bunkers. I fire a round into a bunker to see if there is an enemy in there since the hitmarker will tell me if I hit something or not.

I think the artilleries are much better now then they used to be.

[ErroR]

I think the artilleries are much better now then they used to be.

I agree however it's ridiculously huge crosshair makes it really hard to see where the shell lands at a distance. Get rid of that and it's perfect.

[Terekhov]

Not sure why people keep complaining about artys; I can't count the number of mammoth tanks I've killed with an arty given a little back-and-forth movement.

Like others have said, airstrike first if it's cheap (750). If not, kill their hotwires (snipers great if possible, otherwise use the arty arc) and use arty/flame tanks to crush the fools.

I think the artilleries are much better now then they used to be.

I agree however it's ridiculously huge crosshair makes it really hard to see where the shell lands at a distance. Get rid of that and it's perfect.

Agreed.

[iran]

The crosshair is pretty useful to help aim at a distance with the lobbing shells. Please don't change it.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

Yah I like the crosshair, its easier to predict whee your shells are gonna land. I have no problems using it.

[SFJake]

<---- Misses the days of customizable crosshairs.

Just give an option for people to use a basic crosshair for everything. God I'd love that.

And frankly, I have no idea which part of that crosshair is useful to see where the shot will land. But I come from Unreal Tournament, where lobbing a Flak Cannon on your target became second nature and I never relied on any crosshair. Shoot a few times, you get the arc and the feel, you know where it'll land. Don't need an oversized crosshair that actually hides your perception.

[ErroR]

The crosshair is pretty useful to help aim at a distance with the lobbing shells. Please don't change it.

As a guide at first maybe but once you get used to the projectile's arc it only serves as an annoyance. Perhaps be able to turn off "helper" crosshairs?

I too would love customizable crosshairs. I couldn't care less about sniper crosshairs, make those unable to be changed if you must.

[ARC_trooper]

I tend to go SBH and attack from the back, not targeting the mammoths but the ones repairing them. After that the Mammoths are easy prey. I tend to do this when there is no real teamplay involved, sometimes everyone is just repairing buildings or shooting the mammoths.

However once "we" did a counter-attack, attacked their base while they were attacking ours. (3 SBH with nukes..) Will be easier with ingame chat or something

[xgamer888]

I feel that the flame tank is a bit slower. Honestly, if thats true, maybe increasing their speed would give nod a little more break out ability?

[R315r4z0r]

I feel that the flame tank is a bit slower. Honestly, if thats true, maybe increasing their speed would give nod a little more break out ability?

But also realize mammoths are slow. Think about this:

The time GDI spent pushing up the field in mammoth tanks could be time Nod spends organizing an infantry rush. GDI slowly advanced, Nod moves into the tunnels. GDI arrives at Nod's base and is greated by a wall of flame tanks. Meanwhile Nod is in GDI's base with low resistance because most of GDI is in the mammoth rush.

[ehh]

airstrikes

[Letty]

I hate the artillery crosshair as well. I can judge gravity just fine, thank you very much. Crosshair often obscures infantry at long range.

airstrikes

This too. Nod Airstrikes are much more powerful than GDI's and Mammoths are the biggest, slowest target in the game. And airstrikes kill engineers pretty well.

[Daedhart]

I hate the artillery crosshair as well. I can judge gravity just fine, thank you very much. Crosshair often obscures infantry at long range.

airstrikes

This too. Nod Airstrikes are much more powerful than GDI's and Mammoths are the biggest, slowest target in the game. And airstrikes kill engineers pretty well.

Ive heard so much complaining about the arty crosshairs. I havent seen them be as game breaking as everybody makes them out to be. I dont seem to have any issue hitting infantry at close and long range. If it really does hamper you so much, think of it as a balancing act since the arty is so much easier to attack infantry with it than the MRLS.

As for airstrikes, I believe the Nod and GDI are equal in dignity. Its just that GDI has so many big, heavy vehicles, it gives Nod's airstrike the advantage.

[Staged Interpreter]

I like the airstrike to break sieges. But SBH + NUKE + AIRSTRIKE means a dead building and there is nearly nothing you can do. The airstrike will keep infantry out of the zone for 10sec, and for the last few seconds there is timed c4 and the lasrifle.

Sure you lose a lot if they kill you before you reach a building but Goldrush is almost impossible to win for GDI due to this.

Field however goes to GDI most of the time. However it is still possible to hold of mammoths. SBH can kill hotties and place timeds + airstrikes and the flamers can finish of the tanks.

And the new art is actually better for field in my opinion, sure its almost worthless for bodyshotting infantry now but the arc is useful if you sit behind a hill.

[RoundShades]

Eh, I personally wouldn't call an airstrike a counter to a mammoth tank, as much as a counter to sieges. It works harder as a counter to GDI in general since they are so into sieges, and mammoth tanks don't move fast enough to dodge one called on them if they were moving to begin with.

However, stanks can hit and retreat at them, flamers can trade higher damage against them, artillery can peck at them, and raves could use a buff but are good too.

So they aren't OP if that is the suggestion. They are stronger than Renegade, but alas so are the flamer and stank, as well as several other Nod units.

[Unit]

Air strikes need to be removed so that team play is actually important to crushing a defence or offence.

one hit wonder airstrikes belong in CoD not renegade.

[TP|himselfXD]

Air strikes need to be removed so that team play is actually important to crushing a defence or offence.

one hit wonder airstrikes belong in CoD not renegade.

No Call of Duty did not invent airstrikes, war invented airstrikes stop calling typical war strategies call of duty.

I think all war video games should have air strikes what recent war hasn't had bombing?

[RoundShades]

Air strikes need to be removed so that team play is actually important to crushing a defence or offence.

one hit wonder airstrikes belong in CoD not renegade.

You wouldn't want teamwork, you would want airstrikes, if your team wasn't a capable bunch. You can argue you can run with a clan 24/7, but that is what we like to call stomping, yes it is don't argue it, and stomping makes the game to where very soon it is just 40 players playing it and the other stompers stomp harder than you and on you, so when you and your clan leaves it makes it 32 which is less than a full game and a pity.

Airstrikes are cool to actually suppress a bad scenario with a lack of teamwork, and airstrikes serve a function to functionally spend income without a live HoN/Bar/WF/Air.

I would settle for HoN and Air working with 3x cost if destroyed, and removing airstrikes, I guess. I would generally prefer some kind of limited use on airstrikes, there are only so many times you want to spend 700 at once besides misuse.

[SFJake]

Make airstrikes 2500 cost and there you still have your answer to using money when you have nothing else, except it doesn't ruin the entire game in the process.