Is it just me or does Nod feel really bad?

[m3chladon]

I'm an old school player, was in SFV back in 2003 fought against KOSS and NXC a few times.

I've been waiting for this remake for some time now and I have a rant to go on. I love GDI, always been my favorite, but I'm noticing a trend here. Nod hardly wins, at least in my games.

The good

-Artys new blast radius and arcing shot is nice for taking out engineers

-SBH with nukes still great

-Flame tank still decent

The bad

-Flamethrower and Chem trooper feel terrible. Like if I'm not shooting a MCT I might as well have been a different unit

-Stealth Tank damage is weak and almost never worth purchasing. It always shined on maps like Volcano and Complex which are not here yet. It's pretty much worthless on the current rotation except for maybe Lakeside.

-Light tank feels the same. Problem is the Mammoth tank doesn't feel the same and outclasses it immensely.

-Raveshaw (and Sydney) the 1000 credit anti-vehicular units both feel bad, like "why did I spend my money on this unit" bad. I remember back in the day when you were flooded with med tanks on Fields you would get 5-6 people rocking Raveshaw and start taking them to town. Now I wouldn't even recommend wasting your money on him. Seriously there is no way he is a direct copy paste from the original. He feels really bad.

-Laserchain gunner is pretty inferior to Gunner, not a lot but it's not a good 450 credit tradeoff

-Arty got arcing shots while the MRL got rotating missile bays with lock on. Arty didn't win in the buff wars here.

-Medoza (and Mobius) hit hard but their range feels REALLY short. Did their range get nerfed?

As it stands, besides Sakura, the most money I spend on anything Nod has to offer is an Arty or Chaingunner. Their expensive toys do not feel their weight in credits. I've been playing everyday since the open beta came out, and I denied it at first, but Nod definitely is in need of some buffs.

If the map has AGT/Obelisk, chances are Nod loses the game unless GDI is just an overall bad team. Nod can't really beat a decent GDI team atm when defenses are around. At least on maps like Islands and Walls_Flying they can abuse SBH/Nuke, but if I load into Fields now as Nod I either swap to GDI or I log off the server.

Nod needs buffs.

[wolfrikku]

I'm an old school player, was in SFV back in 2003 fought against KOSS and NXC a few times.

I've been waiting for this remake for some time now and I have a rant to go on. I love GDI, always been my favorite, but I'm noticing a trend here. Nod hardly wins, at least in my games.

The good

-Artys new blast radius and arcing shot is nice for taking out engineers

-SBH with nukes still great

-Flame tank still decent

The bad

-Flamethrower and Chem trooper feel terrible. Like if I'm not shooting a MCT I might as well have been a different unit

-Stealth Tank damage is weak and almost never worth purchasing. It always shined on maps like Volcano and Complex which are not here yet. It's pretty much worthless on the current rotation.

-Light tank feels the same. Problem is the Mammoth tank doesn't feel the same and outclasses it immensely.

-Raveshaw (and Sydney) the 1000 credit anti-vehicular units both feel bad, like "why did I spend my money on this unit" bad. I remember back in the day when you were flooded with med tanks on Fields you would get 5-6 people rocking Raveshaw and start taking them to town. Now I wouldn't even recommend wasting your money on him. Seriously there is no way he is a direct copy paste from the original. He feels really bad.

-Laserchain gunner is pretty inferior to Gunner, not a lot but it's not a good 450 credit tradeoff

-Arty got arcing shots while the MRL got rotating missile bays with lock on. Arty didn't win in the buff wars here.

-Medoza (and Mobius) hit hard but their range feels REALLY short. Did their range get nerfed?

As it stands, besides Sakura, the most money I spend on anything Nod has to offer is an Arty or Chaingunner. Their expensive toys do not feel their weight in credits. I've been playing everyday since the open beta came out, and I denied it at first, but Nod definitely is in need of some buffs.

If the map has AGT/Obelisk, chances are Nod loses the game unless GDI is just an overall bad team. Nod can't really beat a decent GDI team atm when defenses are around. At least on maps like Islands and Walls_Flying they can abuse SBH/Nuke, but if I load into Fields now as Nod I either swap to GDI or I log off the server.

Nod needs buffs.

I think people just need to learn how to play NOD and stop trying to play it like their GDI. NOD was never a brute for faction it just won't work unless you manage to steal all of GDI's vehicles. Also with the fact that everyone tires to go lonewolf doesn't help their chances either it's a team based game but no one want to do rushes or take a chance on dieing. The only times I see someone not going in rushes is 1. their doing base defense. or 2. they have a enemy vehicle. (which as long as they have the vehicle that is one less the enemy can have.)

[Nod Trooper]

I can take care of a Mammoth quite easily in a STank, I just use hit and run tactics when facing a mammy. make sure you can find cover as well when you circle around it. Although it's damage does need a small increase.

[omega79]

i just feel the laser of the SBH is total rubbish ...

i would rather see the damage it does and the rate it fires got nerfed ...

in exchange it gets as accurate as it was in classic renegade

with the SBH rifle i feel like this:

Edited March 4, 2014 by Guest

[TigerXtrm]

Are you kidding, the Stealth Tank is a beast when used the way it is intended. You don't attack full health targets head on. You sneak behind the enemy while your team is pounding them and then pick the right moment to attack an already weak tank. Running over their engie support in the process if you can.

Works with Mammy's like a charm and sneaking up behind an MRLS is a guaranteed victory for the stank. By the time they know what's happening they're already at critical health most of the time.

Field has always felt wrong to me (also in the original) because the map is focused on taking out the enemy base through a single entrance. This is where superious firepower wins the match and obviously GDI has an advantage here. When there's 3 Mammy's pounding the entrance there is no 'sneaking around'. Anything that drives outside is instantly violently blasted to pieces. And getting back there with infantry is hard enough with all the snipers hiding in the bunkers. It's really not a well designed map in my opinion. The matches where Nod gets the upper hand are few and far between and are often triggered by GDI's ref getting nuked, thus cutting their income to buy tanks.

The laser of the SBH does feel a little underpowered compared to what I remember from the original. The Tiberium Auto Rifle seems to outperform almost any other rapid fire weapon in the game because of its splash damage and poisoning.

[wolfrikku]

Are you kidding, the Stealth Tank is a beast when used the way it is intended. You don't attack full health targets head on. You sneak behind the enemy while your team is pounding them and then pick the right moment to attack an already weak tank. Running over their engie support in the process if you can.

Works with Mammy's like a charm and sneaking up behind an MRLS is a guaranteed victory for the stank. By the time they know what's happening they're already at critical health most of the time.

Field has always felt wrong to me (also in the original) because the map is focused on taking out the enemy base through a single entrance. This is where superious firepower wins the match and obviously GDI has an advantage here. When there's 3 Mammy's pounding the entrance there is no 'sneaking around'. Anything that drives outside is instantly violently blasted to pieces. And getting back there with infantry is hard enough with all the snipers hiding in the bunkers. It's really not a well designed map in my opinion. The matches where Nod gets the upper hand are few and far between and are often triggered by GDI's ref getting nuked, thus cutting their income to buy tanks.

The laser of the SBH does feel a little underpowered compared to what I remember from the original. The Tiberium Auto Rifle seems to outperform almost any other rapid fire weapon in the game because of its splash damage and poisoning.

Of all the things that I think need to be nerfed a bit is the Tib Auto Rifle. Does more damage then the flechette but you don't have to hit your target. Unless they have it setup to do less damage as splash I don't know. I have yet to test it out.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Guest

[YardenM]

The chem trooper is amazing up close, one of my fav classes.

Not sure why you think it's bad.. i agree regarding the flame soldier though.

[Prof.Koni]

In my opinion, Nod is like it should be played. Stealth Black Hands for example are really awesome dude.

Nod never had such strong units like GDI. Nod is more about tactics.

[Fultre]

I can take care of a Mammoth quite easily in a STank, I just use hit and run tactics when facing a mammy. make sure you can find cover as well when you circle around it. Although it's damage does need a small increase.

Hahaha, that makes the two of us!

I think stank is balanced well. What it lacks with hp, armour and damage it makes up with stealth, speed and precision.

Do not underestimate the stank!

[zakedodead]

In my opinion, Nod is like it should be played. Stealth Black Hands for example are really awesome dude.

Nod never had such strong units like GDI. Nod is more about tactics.

The problem with this is it means you have to have a better team as nod to be able to be on equal footing with a gdi team. Saying one team is "more about tactics" is just admitting that it's weaker and you have to compensate by being better.

[Cherno]

You could say the same about GDI on maps ike Walls and the snow map, where no automated base defences exists, the base entrancve is wide open, and both sides have access to helicopters. On these kind of maps, it's GDI who has to do more teamwork, especially on the defense, or they will get nuked.

[Drury]

The way I see it, Nod in general is like glass cannon. You have to be smart to use their tech, and you get rewarded for that. Problem is, if you try to play like GDI and try to fight your way through a choke, it won't work, you lack the needed firepower. Basically they lack power in direct combat (specifically the armor needed to survive), but are good at ambushing and guerrilla warfare. Rather than using big guns to fight, they prefer to sneak behind and backstab the foe, quickly and deadly efficiently.

And I think this aspect is a bit underdeveloped. The way Nod is now, it seems like they tried to nerf the things that made a glass cannon out of Nod and what you're left with is more like glass peashooter. They are supposed to be these "cowards" that hide and then strike when you least expect them, avoiding engaging in 1v1 fights because that wouldn't end well for them. You can still do that as Nod in fact, but chances of success are slim because they nerfed their weapons so hard it won't ever work. Their anti-vehicle infantry, flamers, used to be much more effective at this than their GDI gl counterpart for a reason. Nod use their vehicles not to fight superior GDI ones (with an exception of stank, which utilizes guerrilla tactics for this purpose), but to quickly rush their base and end the fight when they least expect it. Flame tank was made for this.

They should buff damage potential of Nod, and make their units easier to take down. That's kind of the core design behind them.

[HaTe]

The same arguments were made when renegade was first released. Nod wins ~55% in jelly marathon in renegade to this day. You just have to know the strategies and have a team that is willing to help with them.

[omega79]

55% is pretty well balanced for a game with so fundamental different teams

[Soldieroffate]

Flame and Chem troopers are lot more powerful in Ren X, since they had some laughable and deceptive hitboxes in the older games.

[IIandrew]

I completely agree NOD seems to lose a lot and the flame trooper and chemical trooper need a buff.

[NodCommander]

What confuses a lot of people with the flametrooper and chemwarrior is that the way their guns work requires your crosshair to be aiming on an enemy while it 'ticks' away 1 ammo count. This means it can look like the enemy is getting hit by the fire, but doesnt actually take damage.

Thats what I get the feel of atleast. If thats the actual case is another question.

[Valor]

Nod used to win in the original because of the artillery alone. Nod still wins more in Ren X but only on maps without base defenses because they can sbh spam nukes.

It was drastically the opposite in original Ren: Nod would win more on maps with base defenses. That's because no one in the original Ren would fall victim to nuke strikes, there were many players who were willing to spend an entire game searching for sbh so nuking almost never worked. They won more because the artillery en masse was so much better than GDI tanks due to the immense splash damage, straight fire, and screen shaking effect, all of which were removed in Ren X.

Original win stats:

Canyon - Small: GDI: 63 Nod: 50 - Big: GDI: 1020 Nod: 888 - Combined: GDI: 1083 Nod: 938 = 1083 to 938

City - Small: GDI: 20 Nod: 42 - Big: GDI: 339 Nod: 521 - Combined: GDI: 359 Nod: 563 = 359 to 563

City Flying - Small: GDI: 19 Nod: 31 - Big: GDI: 387 Nod: 611 - Combined: GDI: 406 Nod: 642 = 406 to 642

Complex - Small: GDI: 75 Nod: 74 - Big: GDI: 1185 Nod: 1623 - Combined: GDI: 1260 Nod: 1697 = 1260 to 1697

Field - Small: GDI: 13 Nod: 34 - Big: GDI: 303 Nod: 687 - Combined: GDI: 316 Nod: 721 = 316 to 721

Glacier Flying - Small: GDI: 20 Nod: 32 - Big: GDI: 395 Nod: 471 - Combined: GDI: 415 Nod: 503 = 415 to 503

Hourglass - Small: GDI: 10 Nod: 20 - Big: GDI: 262 Nod: 573 - Combined: GDI: 272 Nod: 593 = 272 to 593

Islands - Small: GDI: 50 Nod: 47 - Big: GDI: 807 Nod: 1068 - Combined: GDI: 857 Nod: 1115 = 857 to 1115

Mesa - Small: GDI: 25 Nod: 27 - Big: GDI: 512 Nod: 461 - Combined: GDI: 537 Nod: 488 = 537 to 488

Under - Small: GDI: 13 Nod: 31 - Big: GDI: 460 Nod: 466 - Combined: GDI: 473 Nod: 497 = 473 to 497

Volcano - Small: GDI: 89 Nod: 90 - Big: GDI: 1339 Nod: 1316 - Combined: GDI: 1428 Nod: 1406 = 1428 to 1406

Walls - Small: GDI: 26 Nod: 22 - Big: GDI: 469 Nod: 486 - Combined: GDI: 495 Nod: 508 = 495 to 508

Walls Flying - Small: GDI: 63 Nod: 54 - Big: GDI: 974 Nod: 831 - Combined: GDI: 1037 Nod: 885 = 1037 to 885

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=71085

[Letty]

People still think the MRLS was buffed? And that it is better than the Artillery? That's hilarious.

The MRLS was nerfed. Before you could fire behind walls without exposing yourself. Now the MRLS has to expose itself for several seconds, which with their paper thin army is more than enough to annihilate it. Artillery was massively improved with the arcing shot, as you can now easily target Engineers behind enemy tanks and destroy them in a few shots. Blast radius is way up to let you destroy infantry, while the MRLS's lock-on is basically only useful against Aircraft, who are already paper thin and better killed by snipers. And the MRLS is further gimped by the fact that any use of it in the field will lead to a timed C4 from a SBH immediately, meaning any lengthy push is going to see MRLSs dying left and right.

Aside from the SBH the dominance of the Arty over the MRLS is Nod's biggest strength IMO. Any map that Nod can establish map dominance with Arty and not throw it away is a map Nod will win unless GDI pulls off something quite spectacular.

[goztow]

The Mrls is starting to become my new favorite light armour vehicle. It was the art in Ren. As you can tell, to each their own.

[Soldieroffate]

The MRL's lock-on ability comes in really handy at times. The physics of it in old Ren are glitchy at best, since most of the time, only 2-3 rockets manage to actually track the target.