RoundShades

This is what the excitement should be about. Imagine on field, a GDI McFarland Squad can EMP NADE the mines by the air and SMOKE NADE the path to the air. Technically, it would be easier to do to the nod ref side given the distance from tunnel to door. Besides prepping a rush by getting out your tanks and tossing smoke at the nod entrance before rushing in, they can EMP your tanks once you start rushing which holds your tanks despite them being hidden from the base defense. Those rushes will be so much more interesting. Again, as far as "unit role flexibility", it turns out "repair", "sniping", and "vehicles" are usually the most powerful. That's why I think these mechanics add power to infantry infiltration. I also think secondary weapons that are low class snipers and low class repairguns would help, as a chaingun with a marksman rifle becomes a lot more viable. That is just considering adding the FREE weapons to SECONDARY via 175 PURCHASE. "nBab": listed these changes and opinions: - Sniper (Havoc/Sakura): -- Damage reduction to infantry: I think everyone agrees on the need to reduce the damage to below 200 so free infantry doesn't die in one shot. agreed -- Extra C4: why?!! why should a long range sniper infiltrate bases? it doesn't make sense. yes, i've read the arguments in favor of it but it still doesn't make sense. it's like we could use a new commando class (with more c4 and silenced weapons and maybe temp stealth) instead of changing the sniper class into something else. also agreed. it doesn't fit how you usually use ramjet characters -- Hip-fire spread: i suck at aiming with snipers and get sniped a lot by good players, but this feels like you're punishing people with good aim. if you want to give a penalty for hip-firing, you could make the bullet trail/sound visible when hip-firing but reduce it when using the scope so players are encouraged to use the scope without punishing good players.this is a doublenerf to losing instakill, so I might rather this not be added as well until we see how much the nerf affects -- More damage to heavy armor: again why?!! snipers are not supposed to deal damage to heavy armor. let alone finish them from far distances... even if the damage is low, there's not a single reason for it.this is a good "buff" to counter losing 1 hit kill, and they are in the field usually so if a low health tank gets by they can take it down if below 100 but will not do significant damage if above 100. The damage can be repaired faster, but its a contributable amount. Good buff to counter removing 1 hit kills -- Less damage to light vehicles: snipers are the only counter to light and specially air vehicles right now. if you want to do this you need to find a replacement. either really buff the damage and projectile speed of the rocket soldier so it can actually counter vehicles and not be useless. and/or make the repair speed of air vehicles really slow. as it is now it's almost impossible to kill an orca/apache with a good tech inside cause they just land and repair and repeat. the same goes for arty/mrls with engies repairing them. we need to have a counter for them before nerfing the sniper damage. I am more on the fence about this as well. If it is no longer a "powerful" amount, and by that I mean the 500 sniper's damage is honestly decent as well as the marksman, then the airgame really does lose one of it's only hardest counters. We will have to go back to Call of Duty logic and "everyone spray autorifle fire up into the air" - EMPs disabling mines: SBH is already too powerful. this will make them even more powerful so i'm against it, or it needs to be really nerfed.I honestly think this buffs GDI more than NOD tbh, but it does depend on who has the tunnels. Tbh, it makes the tunnels more important, despite the team. If at least 1 person is watching the tunnel entrance, they can waste the SBH that emps the mines, and someone always remines them. - Suggestions: -- Flashing mine counter when mines blow up: as someone mentioned before this will make defending a bit easier and specially since now the remote c4 doesn't count towards the mine limit, it will be more useful. just make the mine counter flash in red / get bold everytime a mine disappears.I like this. Maybe the game enters text alert into chat, like an auto quickchat "q" warning. "proxy mine alert at war factory" only when one is triggered or disarmed by an enemy and not by a teammate or mid-disarm (because that would be alerted too fast and be too spammy) -- (off-topic) Allow destroyed buildings to be repaired: i know this is a huge change and will not make it in this or few next betas. but it will prevent the players leaving when one of their buildings get destroyed and will give a hope of comeback to that team. you can either require a huge repair with repair gun (like 50 times the building health) to rebuild it or scatter (or put in crates) resources like steal, wood, etc. in map so players can collect them and when they have a required amount the building gets rebuilt.This is being considered, but it likely won't be a rebuild because that is too powerful and offers no punishment. It will likely be a mechanic of some heavy cost, to restore reduced function like more costly characters and cooldowns on purchases. At least you CAN buy a character instead of free-till-game-end, even if it is only once every 4 minutes...

I am just saying, I don't personally like the specific changes to: -the ramjet x2 c4 in exchange for 1 hit kill damage -the snipers getting spread -light armor damage reduction from snipers -jumping mobility nerfs However, I don't expect them to be massive. If they are, they will get told to adjust it back a lot, and Totem has been GOOD about feedback like this. Honestly, I would rather 1k snipers get a faster fire rate per clip in trade for their 1 hit capability, and I think they should keep light armor damage or at least the reduction be less than 20% less damage. The 2 timed c4 sounds cool. I am convinced it needs to be an "items purchaseable", to replace 1 timed c4 with 2 timed c4, and would even make "engineers" able to do what "technicians" do. I am just not convinced that is the direction havok/sakura needs to go. The changes are entirely cool and I am very strongly in favor of seeing these changes in game. They will not ruin the game, they will be a worthwhile effort in gameplay mechanic experimentation. Because old Ren need new mechanics brought into RenX, we just need the right ones. And personally, I think emp nades disarming mines and smoke nades aiding rushes increases the tensity of rushes and sieges. Emp nades by themselves just jammed every rush, but smoke grenades may make rushes jammed extended gunfights in bases.

I wonder how Havoc/Sakura with a heavy pistol will do against a MCT. Wonder if it will be possible to kill a building. Also interested in other gameplay mechanics. The emp vs mines thing, sounds interesting only because it gives building damage warning which was a wise choice as it at least alerts team. Still think beacons and the emp nade should take place of timed c4, as this would balance SBH. This sounds like a really game-changing update, which can be good or bad, but all fingers crossed for it to be good. Also, I don't think Havoc/Sakura, unless they can kill building with heavy pistol or some other magical bullshit, were buffed enough. I would have settled for faster time between shots. Getting double bodyshot deaths faster than you would with a 500 sniper, would be a better advantage than random bonus c4 or bonus heavy armor damage that is still mostly negligible. However, I do understand they were too OP against infantry and light armor so I must see how different they are now. EDIT: Does this mean beacons and timed c4 are already replaced with emp and smoke nades? If so, that is really good to hear. Also, it WOULD be nice if it would take the entire EMP's effect time to disarm mines. That way, it still works en bulke and creates need to spread mines instead of clump, new gameplay strategies and such, but it isn't a cheese way to insta-snipe a building. Still think a weak repairgun secondary weapon would be welcome to hybrid strong primaries as engineers, while keeping some strong expensive secondaries to hybrid t2 techs/hotwires as combat classes. But with EMP nades, at least you don't need a whole lot to get through mines.

Yeah, I am pretty sure with cost increase and cooldown, that a 2-5 minute period of using a character/vehicle will end before 2-5 minutes most the time against a better equipped enemy, and then that player is stuck with the rest of the cooldown running through free characters. That is much different than going through 400 cost characters (which you usually do when you die regardless how broke u are), or being stuck with only free characters (nobody likes noobjet)

Veterancy was always nice in server mods that had it, rewarded for combat instead of the ref, and rewarded more for combat than credits were since kills are negligible credits. However, that system wasn't so much "spent" as it was "established". You earned it and that allowed you to unlock supply drops, it never spent them it just had a cooldown (and it took creds too, the normal amount iirc). So, wouldn't it make more sense for veterancy to either automatically unlock vehicle drops and character change with a cooldown, or for veterancy to be currency you spend at a PT to restore some operation to the structure like Rypel suggested where you pay enough veterancy at a PT and you can buy things again for a markup or cooldown or whatever...

Eh, i am willing to try anything, whether related to repair, credits, or automated on a cooldown. I just think credits need spending anyway since they literally don't matter if the ref isn't killed within 8 minutes, and repairing the mct for 10 seconds to be able to use the structure for 30 seconds (with a price spike on units), are good ideas. Besides, the EASIEST idea to implement, is just a different way buildings function in a "destroyed" state. Like I said before, just let structures when destroyed build vehicles and infantry at twice the cost, generate credits at half the rate, respawn the harvester at a few minute delay, fire the defences at half damage, ect. That is a "autonomous" method, not entirely based on credits, and keeps structure loss harsh.

So am I, and I still end most sessions of Ren on early "structure loss". What better time is it to call it quits? I don't do it every structure loss like a jerk, but after a few hours that would be the likely point to end my night. The way I see it, I stick through many early game structure loss. After hanging in through those for a few hours, it is the game's gift given back to me to be allowed to quit just one of them, my reward for not having done so the last however many.

Honestly, the refinery is a lackluster powerplant, like the gdi infantry or nod air is to the opposites. Being more important is possibly a better change to the game, by that theory. Honestly, credits get abundant not a few minutes into a match, it would be better if there were more things to spend credits on. Like secondaries. Xept, not all like the carbine. Variety leads to everything being worth spending money on, to compliment the advantages of the other weapons/tools/situations in the game. ...or team pool funds for large purhcases, such as to reestablish some structure function. Like Goku said, it was and would be badass if base defences could be half-powered by some game mechanic. Matter of fact, to humor you, a second idea to reverse structure death, that doesn't depend on credits, could be like Goku said. You could be able to "repair" the MCT and the structure work at half-power. Make it so the MCT can be repaired, and fills to full health, but its health decays fast so you have to repair it constantly or frequently. I figure, if it has to be constant, then small games will be difficult as it takes at least 2 people to use a structure, while if you could repair it yourself and then use it then it then you are less dependent on a team. Because teamwork should help, but a lot of things that "require" a second teammate means it fails once the game gets too small or reality kicks in and nobody wants to have to repair the mct 100% the time.

Of course it should be limited, but Rypel's idea sounds like what already works with a pretty high favor rating in Classic Ren's servers. You can get airdrop vehicles and characters from the !veh or !char commands in those servers. However, everything costs 2x as much and has a cooldown per person. I would love for PTs, to allow a pool system of 20k creds, to initially enable it for the team, and then when the structure is down: -the bar/hon pt allows character purchase for increased cost and a 4 minute cooldown -the wf/air pt allows vehicle purchase for increased cost and a 4 minute cooldown -the ref pt allows the destroyed structure to still generate 1 credit per tick -the pp allows the destroyed structure to purchase units at normal price still, or run the defences still (not both or two seperate upgrades?) -the defences allows the destroyed structure to still fire at half damage or half fire-rate or whatever. Since it is a large team purchase at the structure PT, it is even better because it is earned and not given.

I think it should be left in, just for funzies. Hell, I think it should be buildable, attached together, each vehicle enterable by a seperate person, and count as seperate vehicles to the vehicle count. Just for normality.

Structure loss being less devastating would help imo. Like if structure loss caused a price spike instead of removal of the units. Then it would just suffocate a team instead of stopping them in their tracks. And careful combat on the team's part will keep them viable against an enemy. Instead of an instant collapse.

Brohug

Eh, not big on objective. Keep off the grass, and A Path Beyond (the name of the map), are good examples of double-defense maps. Then again, the ROF/DMG of a tesla coil or turret is manageable even as infantry. Still, a double defense map that is open field and corner-spawn rts-game style, would be neat.

I actually always sort of liked an old mod I remember playing in classic renegade, where you could donate money to a node, and after an absurd donation amount you buy back stuff. Like, the whole team can push cash into a structure to rebuild it, but it would have to be 15k or something. It would still almost be less coding to just make structure loss effects less harsh, compared to programming into the game a "team fund" if I remember it being called that correctly.

That is the record? I remember playing a Field game, a long time ago on classic ren, that I played 4 hours when the map started, then went to bed, woke up 6 hours later, and the same game was going on, and it finished an hour and a half later. That is what, almost 12 hours?

Like X Mountain? In all fairness, I agree. That is what I would pitch for Kenz to work on next as well. I recommended popular custom maps from C&C Renegade already. I liked the one, that had an open field, and 2 openings to each base and 2 base defences. THAT feels very C&C universe. Having multiple defense structures on different openings, and a large field between. For FPS sake, put a cave straight through the mountain center into each base, and even place the opening in a blind spot between the two base defences leading into the base, so infantry is relevant and infiltrateable. EDIT: eh, I am not making a pic of this.

In a tank battle solo, if you just barely lose to another tank, you can easily take down the enemy's 600 cred investment because a heavy pistol can easily chip off 6% of an enemy, depending on distances even 10-12%. Not many people do that cuz dat damn carbine, but I do it if I am driving a tank or repairing a tank siege.

This is very profound. I am mindblown thinking how true this is. How did this ellude my own comprehension until just now?

I would just touch up a downloaded cache of them on some freeware site. Hell, I would love to do it, I bet I could make the map so different yet nostalgic and functional. I always the overpass coming across in an X shape instead of almost following the length of road under was a good idea. As well as an on ramp and off ramp mid-field. That would also "stretch" the field a bit farther, making it less cramped and instead of giving snipers easy reign they have to snipe greater distances. Also, put some classic "underpass" debris as cover, like "burning barrels" and "dirt piles" and flipped over children's carosels.

Omg, I came across this in random news online, and it reminded me of your avatar Kenz3001!

Sadly, I liked MW3's rotation. You vote for current map again for a maximum of 1 replay, or the next map which will be the next map if it fails to be voted, OR for a randomly chosen un-specific one. All map gets played. If really bad, you have to hate it so much to risk getting anything else, meaning whiteout can be skipped for goldrush or xmountain for lakeside.

Nice avatar by the way.

I thought some servers already used this. I saw a stream where kenz3001 had another kenz3001 try to join and it flunk the attempt by the imposter.

I would be okay with every vehicle/infantry just costing 2x more from a destroyed structure. Harvester respawn would be nice too, maybe with a 2 minute penalty (should always be a 45 second delay anyway, the mutator that adds that is brilliant)

This would completely change sniping from legacy. I would entirely agree on it nonetheless. My thoughts on this: -Sniper rifle animations could be faster and pretty much go back to old renegade rate of fire, to make up for such a nerf in straight up damage. -It would be nice if all primaries gained 1-2 extra clips across all primaries. Infantry refill is pretty painful for snipers especially, but really all other classes that drink through 1 clip in a single use. -It would be nice if an "item" was an ammo refill. Literally, item called "ammo box", and when used you get beacon plant filling-bar and a new animation of prying open an ammo box, takes half as long as beacon plant and upon finishing all weapons return to full ammo. -If Items were all merged with existing beacons and airstrike, would mean they couldn't overlap. Also means engineers could even refill remotes, but would lose their timed. This would still not be a 1 hit for a structure, correct? Cool ideas FTW!