Rush Siren Idea

[Akbaro]

When theres a rush happening or theres a little squad of smurfs sneaking into the refinery I dont want to stand still like a flagpole and slowly type in chat whats going on when I could be trying to stop it, or perhaps running away because it intercepts where im currently standing like a flagpole.

Saying INC in chat 5x over doesnt seem to grab the audience enough, and Q spotting a building 1000 times is too vague, that could mean anything from a patch peppering it to a full blown this-is-gonna-die-if-you-dont-wake-up rush and no one seems to take them seriously.

(And often times if you Q spot the rush it will show 5 instances of 1 guy making it seem like im having some sort of aneurysm over 1 random gunner whos whooping my ass)

I often run away and mid jump, type INC as many times it needs to wake the team up, which often comes out as IMC, or INV or JNC.

I think there needs to be some sort of quick access 'serious shit' alarm because on some of these maps the little corridors and chokepoints to the base are so short and nippy, even if you spot a rush early on in transit you still have to prepare some sort of awe inspiring speech to get the lads in gear.

Maybe a siren would make these inpromptu rushes obsolete but I feel that in an actual warzone it would be easier to communicate instead of having to use pre selected phrases that only adhere to certain situations and dont make the INC rush seem as important as it is.

Maybe to balance it out only the Commander can activate it and it costs some CP. Now thats a good idea.

[NodSaibot]

poor communication happens in pubs and pugs, unfortunately. "sbh in base" "i just saw 2 people" "incoming tanks"

typing fast is a skill, and can be very useful. voice chat would also be good for this. its just hard to come up with a practical UI design for this. i suppose you could do a button on the radio that can allow you to choose infantry/vehicle rush and field/tunnels, but thats all i can think of.

[Akbaro]

11 minutes ago, Sarah! said:

poor communication happens in pubs and pugs, unfortunately. "sbh in base" "i just saw 2 people" "incoming tanks"

typing fast is a skill, and can be very useful. voice chat would also be good for this. its just hard to come up with a practical UI design for this. i suppose you could do a button on the radio that can allow you to choose infantry/vehicle rush and field/tunnels, but thats all i can think of.

Renegade OG had a communication for 'I need reinforcements' that could be implemented.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Akbaro

[NodSaibot]

2 minutes ago, Akbaro said:

Renegade OG had a communication for 'I need reinforcements' that could be implemented.

I don't recall anything like this. How did it say where you were or what you needed?

[Akbaro]

12 minutes ago, Sarah! said:

I don't recall anything like this. How did it say where you were or what you needed?

It didnt give any context at all lol, I just think it would be a good implementation because currently there isnt a way of crying for help.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Akbaro

[Guest once upon the time]

Too much information and warnings often cause a sensory overload of some players and can achieve exactly the opposite effect, ignoring the warnings or messages. One should also not forget that in between certain polls are still being proclaimed where the meaning is sometimes questionable.
In the worst case you have more rocket warnings, Poll, Ion and various warnings (When the opposite Team play very offensive).
Another point is that it is a charm of the game to get a team play in pub play. At Renegade X it's like other games too, some people are interested in improving their game and others just want fun.

[Just Murica]

Well, I actually joked about siren but you took it a bit too seriously. I officially declare that siren is now a meme.
Anyway, the game already suffers from too long matches, which could be finished hours ago. Like, really. Some team (GDI on Field for example) can siege another for a really long time and if defenders are really good, the game can last literally forever. And if you take away this only possibility to make a breakthrough (and finally finish the game) by informing enemy team about incoming rush, that is just nonsense.

UPD: Hm, actually siren will not help in any term, there's still too many people playing with music or completely disabled sound.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Murica! Fuck yeah!

[Akbaro]

23 minutes ago, Murica! Fuck yeah! said:

Well, I actually joked about siren but you took it a bit too seriously. I officially declare that siren is now a meme.
Anyway, the game already suffers from too long matches, which could be finished hours ago. Like, really. Some team (GDI on Field for example) can siege another for a really long time and if defenders are really good, the game can last literally forever. And if you take away this only possibility to make a breakthrough (and finally finish the game) by informing enemy team about incoming rush, that is just nonsense.

UPD: Hm, actually siren will not help in any term, there's still too many people playing with music or completely disabled sound.

If that were the case cruise missiles wouldnt be practically worthless like they are now.

I dont think ideas should be rejected because of the players who dont actually play.

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Akbaro

[Akbaro]

45 minutes ago, SilentKnight said:

Too much information and warnings often cause a sensory overload of some players and can achieve exactly the opposite effect, ignoring the warnings or messages. One should also not forget that in between certain polls are still being proclaimed where the meaning is sometimes questionable.
In the worst case you have more rocket warnings, Poll, Ion and various warnings (When the opposite Team play very offensive).
Another point is that it is a charm of the game to get a team play in pub play. At Renegade X it's like other games too, some people are interested in improving their game and others just want fun.

A siren is more obstructive and alarming than a red message or a beep

If a siren connotates with 'losing a building' I dont think players would ignore it.

[Akbaro]

I like long stale games.

[Just Murica]

I always see a bunch of allied tanks being destroyed from cruise missiles and I just can't hold tears. Maybe, I'm too sensitive.
Anyway, with siren or without it, I always pay attention to the warnings, so rocket never got me. What about rush warnings, there's a couple of variations. People, who are just attentive and type fast, sbhs spying in enemy base or just plain spies. The siren for this would be a bit excessive.

[Guest once upon the time]

I am very sure that many would ignore this message. How many ion warnings are ignored or even ignored for various reasons (One reason is that some play without any game sound).
I guess only in which direction you want to go (make the gameplay easier), but that always assumes that people have to have a game understanding.
This will not help beginners because you will learn the basics at this time.

[Just Murica]

This game just takes its time to be learned. Newcomers may even like it and decide to get into it, but adding new features and constant changes of existing mechanics every new patch make this process even longer.

[Guest once upon the time]

41 minutes ago, Akbaro said:

I dont think ideas should be rejected because of the players who dont actually play.

I do not know if you want to address me specifically but I feel for a change.
I do not decline your changes to your understanding. I just want to show you that there are different perspectives, as an example Murica is an active player.
A medal always has 2 pages.

[Akbaro]

36 minutes ago, SilentKnight said:

I do not know if you want to address me specifically but I feel for a change.
I do not decline your changes to your understanding. I just want to show you that there are different perspectives, as an example Murica is an active player.
A medal always has 2 pages.

The 'players who dont actually play' was not referencing him but the players who listen to music or with the sound off.

[Guest once upon the time]

Thanks for the clarification 

[yosh56]

No

[Moat]

Is it not the job of the commander? To warn the full team about a incoming rush

If no one listen to the "defend the base" command they also don't listen to a alarm which is basically the same but a different sound.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Moat

[Akbaro]

1 hour ago, Moat said:

Is it not the job of the commander? To warn the full team about a incoming rush

If no one listen to the "defend the base" command they also don't listen to a alarm which is basically the same but a different sound.

Everyone jumps off their seats when a beacon is dropped. A commander fighting with the vehicles may not be able to see a rush coming from infantry tunnels.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Akbaro

[Moat]

I understand, I also get your point but who is going to sound the alarm? If every one is able to do that you will hear an alarm the whole match. Like you also constantly hear "defend the base!". Maybe you can introduce a unwritten rule, like only use the "defend the base" command if absolutely necessary. Little bit like how to use mines, that is also an unwritten rule. 

[yosh56]

Or, you know, accept that communication and response among a whole team isnt always perfect. If they're paying attention, and willing to respond, chances are if you say anything about a rush they'll defend. If they plan on continuing doing whatever they were doing anyway, a warning message isnt going to change that.

[Akbaro]

16 minutes ago, yosh56 said:

Or, you know, accept that communication and response among a whole team isnt always perfect. If they're paying attention, and willing to respond, chances are if you say anything about a rush they'll defend. If they plan on continuing doing whatever they were doing anyway, a warning message isnt going to change that.

A warning message? Im talking a bass boosted siren!

Everyone has been making this 'preoccupied' argument but im sure most players will turn around and change course if a rush was INC considering its connotation with losing buildings.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Akbaro

[yosh56]

The message assumed a sound would be implemented as well considering the topic title. Either way, the ruling stands. Plenty of people still walk out of base even after a nuke is planted. A good percentage are just doing their own thing. 

 

[Akbaro]

13 minutes ago, yosh56 said:

The message assumed a sound would be implemented as well considering the topic title. Either way, the ruling stands. Plenty of people still walk out of base even after a nuke is planted. A good percentage are just doing their own thing. 

 

I guess commanders shouldnt have a /c type and nukes shouldnt have countdowns and cruise missiles shouldnt have warnings.

I doubt many of the concepts in RenX were made taking players who dont do anything for the team into consideration.

A siren is too much, maybe some sort of CTRL thing idk.

[Akbaro]

Actually, wasnt 'incoming' a radio command in Renegade?

[roweboat]

How about an item. functions like a mine, but instead of doing damage, it alerts the entire team that something is approaching.

Give it as an "X" ability for Hotwires & Technicians and only allow one per person. 

[vandal33]

Just give Officers a whistle (built-in masks for Nod) and a flare gun.

[Guest once upon the time]

Sorry guys Eulenspiegel won.

Incoming rush signal

 

 

[Moat]

22 minutes ago, SilentKnight said:

Incoming rush signal

Hahahaha! You made my day

[roweboat]

New Unit: Bugler

No weapons, no armor.

Only function is primary fire, which plays Reveille.

 

A true hero of the battlefield.

 

Make for April Fools Day. Please and thank you =D

Edited November 20, 2018 by roweboat
pls

[Akbaro]

4 hours ago, vandal33 said:

Just give Officers a whistle (built-in masks for Nod) and a flare gun.

That would actually be pretty cool.

[Madkill40]

17 hours ago, Akbaro said:

A siren is more obstructive and alarming than a red message or a beep

If a siren connotates with 'losing a building' I dont think players would ignore it.

So at what point is a 'siren' less vague than Q-spotting the specific building - likewise, Q-spotting the enemies or Timed C4s inside the building?

Your complaint or issue here seems more to do with players lacking in observation and unless devs are going to pull a Fable 2 by giving every player on the team a golden-sparkly trail to any Q-spotted building belong to their own team, there isn't room to hold every players hand if they're not going to pay attention to their own team in the first place - No amount of patching can fix the lack of observation of random team mates

[Akbaro]

3 minutes ago, Madkill40 said:

So at what point is a 'siren' less vague than Q-spotting the specific building - likewise, Q-spotting the enemies or Timed C4s inside the building?

Your complaint or issue here seems more to do with players lacking in observation and unless devs are going to pull a Fable 2 by giving every player on the team a golden-sparkly trail to any Q-spotted building belong to their own team, there isn't room to hold every players hand if they're not going to pay attention to their own team in the first place - No amount of patching can fix the lack of observation of random team mates

Most rushes dont involve C4, but Q spotting C4 isnt at all vague, no.

This isnt necessarily a matter of observation, as ive explained, this is is a communication issue, Q spotting a building 5 times doesnt come across as a rush enough, and Q spotting the rushers doesnt seem to either.

Thats why a blazing siren could because its a blazing siren.

Fable 2 was a good game.

[Madkill40]

20 hours ago, Akbaro said:

This isnt necessarily a matter of observation, as ive explained, this is is a communication issue

 

21 hours ago, Madkill40 said:

there isn't room to hold every players hand if they're not going to pay attention to their own team in the first place

 

[NodSaibot]

*cough* maybe its the 32 people all chatting at once that clogs comms *cough*

[yosh56]

41 minutes ago, Sarah! said:

*cough* maybe its the 32 people all chatting at once that clogs comms *cough*

Nobody not paying attention is probably using the chat... S'more like 8/32 people 

[NodSaibot]

Yet somehow people still complain about radio/spotting spam

[Akbaro]

Gotta love it when someone is 1v1ing a smurf in a friendly building but doesnt have the common courtesy to tell everyone.

[vandal33]

Remove radio spamming sounds good. What if someone types something important in chat but gets drowned by the radio? Spam the text chat back? Doesn't feel right if you have to put on a spamming-competition with your mates just to get your message read.

[Idiotas]

Need silent hill siren for scary rushes ~

[Moat]

3 hours ago, vandal33 said:

Remove radio spamming sounds good. What if someone types something important in chat but gets drowned by the radio? Spam the text chat back? Doesn't feel right if you have to put on a spamming-competition with your mates just to get your message read.

This is already done right? Or am I getting crazy now?

[Moat]

On 11/20/2018 at 11:27 AM, yosh56 said:

No

This should have ended this topic already

[Moat]

If there comes an alarm sound in some kind of way can we use this?

 

[Akbaro]

4 hours ago, vandal33 said:

Remove radio spamming sounds good. What if someone types something important in chat but gets drowned by the radio? Spam the text chat back? Doesn't feel right if you have to put on a spamming-competition with your mates just to get your message read.

If something is getting spammed on the radio, its because its important and no one is listening.

I wish there wasnt a cap on how many spams you could do because for some reason 5 isnt enough for the idiots to notice the Ref is getting blown tf up.

Id rather spam Q and still be able to play than to become a flagpole while im typing for clickers to have their ways with.

Sometimes the Q spams collapse into a larger single warning with >> and bold, perhaps if that were more consistant that could fix the message spam, but there needs to be an audio repeat of the building needs repair so no one skips it as a trivial peppering by a patch.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Akbaro

[Moat]

The thing is that players also spam "building needs repairs" like a maniac even if there is no treath at all and there is only 1 damage done. Either way there will always be players that will not try to save a building even with an alarm. You can change the game but not the player. 

The only working solution would be an alien ufo or arm that picks up all the players and put them in the damaged building and they are not allowed to go out if the building is repaired. 

[Akbaro]

2 hours ago, Moat said:

The thing is that players also spam "building needs repairs" like a maniac even if there is no treath at all and there is only 1 damage done. Either way there will always be players that will not try to save a building even with an alarm. You can change the game but not the player. 

The only working solution would be an alien ufo or arm that picks up all the players and put them in the damaged building and they are not allowed to go out if the building is repaired. 

Can we stop talking about the players who dont do anything? Why do these lazy players who dont help the team have such a leeway in potential additions?

-  Or is that just with the Siren idea I have right now? 

Visual and audio warnings exist to notify players that something is happening, without them we may not know that a building is being destroyed for instance.

They arent there to persuade players to help, they can do that off their volition; they are there to grab your attention. This post is about sufficient warnings, although I said it in the OP, I dont believe that players go out of their way to ignore rushes. I think most players would help to stop it, but that they are doing something else and unable to notice players' measly warnings in chat to help in time. I would really like some sort of noticeable warning of sorts to notify players of an incoming rush.

Can we stop with this 'muh lazy players' thing because its not an argument, they shouldn't become the punchline of any point in any discussion. 

 

- -

inb4 'they are doing something else means they are going to continue doing something else blah blah' - pretty much every player is going to be doing something else, there are very few other things they are doing that are more imporant than a rush. If the rush has been given sufficient warnings in chat and enough time, alot of players will arrive to face them, alot of rushes do fail.

Base engies exist to defend the base.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Akbaro

[Moat]

It is still about the alarm, it is a reason why it would not work or be necessary. And the amount of false alarms is also a difficult thing. I also would like to be notified better for rushes but the game also still need to be challenging.

On 11/21/2018 at 3:10 AM, Madkill40 said:

there isn't room to hold every players hand

 Would it be a solution to exclude the "defend the base!" command from the spam filter? So instead of an alarm you can spam "defend the base!" 

[Akbaro]

Just now, Moat said:

It is still about the alarm, it is a reason why it would not work or be necessary. And the amount of false alarms is also a difficult thing. I also would like to be notified better for rushes but the game also still need to be challenging.

 Would it be a solution to exclude the "defend the base!" command from the spam filter? So instead of an alarm you can spam "defend the base!" 

Its too vague though. Unless people start to associate it with a rush it doesnt mean much.

The difficulty should come from fighting off the rush, not being able to effectively tell the team its coming. If everyone used a voice chat, would the game suddenly become easy?

[SvN91]

Can't we just have pre-written message sentences that players can choose similarly like the radio messages but without the voice? Radio messages lack many useful commands anyway.

[vandal33]

On 11/22/2018 at 9:19 PM, Akbaro said:

If something is getting spammed on the radio, its because its important and no one is listening.

I wish there wasnt a cap on how many spams you could do because for some reason 5 isnt enough for the idiots to notice the Ref is getting blown tf up.

Id rather spam Q and still be able to play than to become a flagpole while im typing for clickers to have their ways with.

Sometimes the Q spams collapse into a larger single warning with >> and bold, perhaps if that were more consistant that could fix the message spam, but there needs to be an audio repeat of the building needs repair so no one skips it as a trivial peppering by a patch.

If a teammate ignores a warning, I doubt spamming like a madman would solve anything. Removing the spam limit wouldn't make a difference, they would still ignore all that warning if 5 radio spottings still couldn't get their attention. We can't change the players no matter how much we change the game.

Spamming radios isn't specific but typing in chat can be, like when you typed "enemy tech in ref" people will understand and quickly defend the refinery (the teammates that didn't ignore message) but spamming "Refinery needs repair [99%]" 5 times wouldn't make everyone think there's an enemy inside, let alone if another teammate is spotting-spamming on other things. Also, some players don't take radio spams seriously anymore because people do that too much until it lost its meaning.

I think people are relying to much on radio, this spotting feature made everyone lazy to type. Maybe there should be a beep sound when a team chat is entered because it's less noticeable than radio messages but more meaningful. This is a problem with sending message to your team (can be changed by changing the game)  but the bigger problem is there are teammates still ignoring them (cannot be changed). This is why I don't think a siren is gonna make any difference.