Mobius Overpowered/Mendoza Underpowered(?)

[Akbaro]

I think that Mobius is much stronger than Mendoza in most ways, who are presumably(?) designed to be equally as good as eachother - they fufill the same role and cost the same. I would look into the files where the stats for both characters are defined but I dont know what file that is, so I can only really say the obvious stuff.

Mobius has double the magazine size, more armor, faster rate of fire, a bonus against SBH, a minor fire/electricity drain and most importantly imo; much less spread. He does less damage per shot, but that doesnt really matter at all because if you combine together all his bonuses he is much easier to wield than Mendoza. Mobius makes up for his lower damage in fire rate which together correlate to a high DPS anyway. (Not sure if Mendozas is higher tho) And also the 100% larger magazine size which will allow him to shoot at stuff longer without having to reload, obviously.

Mendoza probably has higher damage per shot but massively disadvantaged by the abysmal magazine size, shotgun spread and slower rate of fire. I remember shooting at a stationary hottie dead center and within range, but not a single shot hit, I saw each and every shot go around as if the guy was doing some matrix shit.

Mendoza does have a mad HS multiplier, if you get consecutive headshots its game over, but its just too damn hard to do, especially with that horrific spread. - Mobius has an advantage at longer range, his spread is really tight, and rarely goes off the crosshairs, if it does, it matters literally half as much, - higher rate of fire and larger mag size as said before.

I know this is just an anecdote but ive always had much better luck as Mobius, for whatever reason it just feels alot easier to hit targets and get headshots.

Mobius's alt fire was nerfed tfo, instead of being an easy way of slipping out of a lost engagement its more situational and costs more, problem is that Mobius's alt was already a poor choice in a flat 1v1 anyway considering the wind up and wind down. That being said its still good at what it can do, get nuclear bomb range AOE round corners and stuff.

Another thing is that Mobius has that progressive armor drain so routing bad guys will often get zucced by thor on the way out.

To the average player, Mobius is much more flexible and all round. Mendoza does do better against vehicles but there are already 2 good Nod AT classes that in my opinion are better at it, and its not like Mobius cant deal MAJOR DAMAGE to vehicles himself anyway.

I just think that Mendoza needs a pretty large spread buff. If I recall, Sarah showed a line comparing Mobius's spread to Mendozas - something like 0.08 to 0.025/0.028. I think that it was changed to 0.10 but that doesnt change much at all. Mendoza has at least double the spread when he needs as many shots to contact as possible. I think if Dozas was dropped to say 0.18 or somewhere around that he would be alot more viable against Mobius. Just me.

I have too much time on my hands. It is sad.

[isupreme]

I think you raise some interesting points.   Your post helped me think a bit about the issues in more detail.

I will be curious what feedback you get.

[Guest Gliven]

You also need to take into account range. Doza's secondary fire shoots much farther and is very good against buildings. There is a reason you see a lot of doza rushes, but very few if any mobius rushes.

[Madkill40]

I didn't think the spread on Doza's thin blue pellets was as absurd as described in the OP, but Doza's blue grenade volley's with the tib-spread is useful for crowds (or if your aim sucks), I don't quite see how Mobius is overpowered comparatively to the Doza tho. Plus side, Doza is a little bit faster in speed compared to Mobius too.

[NodSaibot]

Quote

Counters

For infantry, Mobius is extremely dangerous should he ambush them. His damage per second means that a skilled Mobius will kill about any rapid-firing Nod unit in a 1v1 duel; if the two players share about the same skill expertise, Mobius will prove to be stronger than its Nod counterpart, Mendoza. Therefore, sniper infantry such as Sakura, Black Hand Sniper or Raveshaw, are best counters against Mobius since they are able to kill him with one headshot.

They aren't supposed to be exactly the same. That's why they have different guns now.

[Akbaro]

2 hours ago, Gliven said:

You also need to take into account range. Doza's secondary fire shoots much farther and is very good against buildings. There is a reason you see a lot of doza rushes, but very few if any mobius rushes.

You'd be drained of all your ammo in a minute. I forgot to mention Mendoza has no ammo at all.

[Akbaro]

1 hour ago, Sarah! said:

They aren't supposed to be exactly the same. That's why they have different guns now.

So really Mobius's only counter is stuff that counters basically everything anyway. A raveshaw headshot? Cmon now.

And then snipers, who have no armor bonus to speak of at all.

Mendoza is better against buildings and vehicles sure but I think that Mobius far outweighs him in infantry just enough to forge an imbalance.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Akbaro

[NodSaibot]

Just now, Akbaro said:

So really Mobius's only counter is stuff that counters basically everything anyway. A raveshaw headshot? Cmon now.

And then snipers, who have no armor bonus to speak of at all.

Mendoza is better against buildings and vehicles sure but I think that Mobius far outweighs him in infantry to compensate.

That's kinda the point

[Akbaro]

Just now, Sarah! said:

That's kinda the point

I phrased it wrong, I meant that Mobius's anti infantry potential far outweighs Mendozas anti building and vehicle bonuses imo.

[NodSaibot]

1 minute ago, Akbaro said:

I phrased it wrong, I meant that Mobius's anti infantry potential far outweighs Mendozas anti building and vehicle bonuses imo.

Does it though

[Akbaro]

1 minute ago, Sarah! said:

Does it though

Yes. Mobius is already really good against vehicles and how often do you shoot at buildings? Mendoza rushes are great but they are very expensive.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Akbaro

[Akbaro]

I mean cmon. He has an advantage against SBHs I mean.

[NodSaibot]

Just now, Akbaro said:

Yes. Mobius is already really good against vehicles and how often do you shoot at buildings? Mendoza rushes are great but they are very expensive.

You don't shoot buildings, because it sucks at that. It's decent at anti veh, low range though.

[Akbaro]

1 minute ago, Sarah! said:

You don't shoot buildings, because it sucks at that. It's decent at anti veh, low range though.

My English is fading. I was referring to Mendoza shooting buildings. Even so, Mobius does a far amount of damage to buildings tho.

[Calvin]

Mobius isn't much better imo i been playing lots of doza against mobis 

 

[Akbaro]

1 minute ago, poibox ❄ said:

Mobius isn't much better imo i been playing lots of doza against mobis 

 

Fake news

[Akbaro]

*ahem*

I mean, thats an anecdote.

[Madkill40]

1 hour ago, Akbaro said:

Mendoza rushes are great but they are very expensive.

Yeah, but not as expensive as them Mobius rushes amirite..?!!?!?!?!!?!!!

 

 

[Akbaro]

11 minutes ago, Madkill40 said:

Yeah, but not as expensive as them Mobius rushes amirite..?!!?!?!?!!?!!!

 

 

Where did I say Mobius rushes were a viable tactic? Literally quote me.

[yosh56]

1 hour ago, Akbaro said:

Where did I say Mobius rushes were a viable tactic? Literally quote me.

That was the joke. Nobody does Mobius rushes because they just translate into Arty multi kills without ever causing any significant damage that one random Technician can outheal

[Akbaro]

All I think it needs is a spread reduction and an increased ammo capacity is all.

[vandal33]

12 minutes ago, Akbaro said:

All I think it needs is a spread reduction and an increased ammo capacity is all.

Then that would make Mobius seem underpowered because currently, Mendoza is already much better than Mobius in something else.

[Akbaro]

11 minutes ago, vandal33 said:

Then that would make Mobius seem underpowered because currently, Mendoza is already much better than Mobius in something else.

As established earlier, Mobius doesnt have a reliable infantry counter. 

I really do just think that Mendozas spread makes him unweildy and RNG asf.

As for the ammo capacity, that doesnt make mobius better or worse.

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Akbaro

[Madkill40]

13 hours ago, Akbaro said:

Where did I say Mobius rushes were a viable tactic? Literally quote me.

It was more your point of Mendoza's being considered more expensive... Yet both chars are 1k each... 

[Akbaro]

3 hours ago, Madkill40 said:

It was more your point of Mendoza's being considered more expensive... Yet both chars are 1k each... 

I didnt say he was more expensive, I said that Mendoza rushes are expensive.

Literally quote me.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Akbaro
wrong

[Madkill40]

Okay.jpg

"Mendoza rushes are great but they are very expensive." -Akbaro

Within the context of this thread (comparing Mobius n Mendoza) it was as if you were saying an Mobius rush isn't expensive. 

The expense of an doza rush served no point in this thread when being compared to a char of equal price...

[Akbaro]

29 minutes ago, Madkill40 said:

Okay.jpg

"Mendoza rushes are great but they are very expensive." -Akbaro

Within the context of this thread (comparing Mobius n Mendoza) it was as if you were saying an Mobius rush isn't expensive. 

The expense of an doza rush served no point in this thread when being compared to a char of equal price...

It does because there are other characters capable of base rushing

[Akbaro]

5 hours ago, Madkill40 said:

[DOWNVOTE]

Think about it, GDI has another rush unit already which costs half as much.

[Guest Gliven]

Its almost as if 2 characters with different weapon sets and different damage stats cant be compared. But then sure they both cost 1000.

You have to look at the bigger picture when it comes to balance. You cant say, "this one character is better than this other character at this one specific task, therefore its broken, plz fix"

[vandal33]

Such aggressiveness.

[Guest once upon the time]

Something to calm down

 

[Akbaro]

Okay. Mendoza and Mobius are balanced.

[Agent]

Hid some posts... keep any personal bickering to PMs please. @Madkill40 @Akbaro

[isupreme]

My take away, right or wrong from this discussion,  is that while the characters are roughly equivelent - they express essential differences in the needs of the teams.

I have always found it fascinating how  Gdi is different from NOd is so many ways - and yet game balance is enough to create endless marathons.

[Akbaro]

I mean, I said they were balanced, but to me they feel like they arent because I almost always play infantry. And when I do play anti tank its either raveshaw or LCG because of the flak bonus and that they are more fun imo.