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larger scale maps (opinions)


iridesence
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im just getting into the mapmaking scene for this game, (though i have use plenty of mapmakers before such as the farcry editors, the map maker for orginal renegade, final alert, etc)

and there has always been one thing that bugged me about the game:  maps were too small for a full server.  32vs32 (a full 64 player server) is just a giant fustercluck, and there is no real room to do too many things.

 

i have been working in the udk learning it, but i have been mulling the idea of larger scale maps designed for 50+ players to play and still have plently of room to move around and engage in, and not be stuck to 1-2 chokepoints.  my current project is about 5 times the size of outposts, with several closed and open routes for travel.  So losing a tank means it would take you 2-3 minutes to get back, not 20-40 seconds.  obviously im still working out balance issues with such scale, but i think i can eventually find it.

 

how does the community feel about grand-scale maps?  (stuff that is purpose-built for full servers of 50+ players.)

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Would love to see larger maps, but in order to make them enjoyable in current Renegade X you need to consider the difference in speed, weapons and armour of infantry and vehicles, and how the map plays when you loose your WF/airstrip. Walking for a few minutes into battle - fine. Buying a medium/high tier character and getting splash damaged to death by tanks before firing a single shot - not cool. "Return to start".
This is what might get people easily frustrated on "large" maps.

Note that many "successful" Renegade maps follow the design mantra of "extend vehicle path around the infantry path such that infantry can short-cut through vehicle-obstacles, e.g. tunnels, buildings, forests, etc."

So, I think the key is not simply scaling up the map but (as you mentioned) giving more path options for players with less chokepoints. This combined with a clever infantry vs. vehicle layout could be very interesting! 🙂

Good luck!

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14 hours ago, j0g32 said:

I think the key is not simply scaling up the map but (as you mentioned) giving more path options for players with less chokepoints. This combined with a clever infantry vs. vehicle layout could be very interesting! 

Toxicity has an infantry/vehicle combination which isn't just infantry without protection

I may need to load a mutator into the map which increases the speed of the APCs (because they're so frikken slow)

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obviously im working on smaller maps first until i learn how to make a proper map.    Though I admit i havent had the time I wanted to work on it much.

i did have 2 thoughts on the subject: 

-larger scaled traditional  (the standard "U" pattern only scaled up massively)

-Frontline-based maps.  With multiple objective-based stages for an army to plow through.  (see attached image 1)

things.png

 

so far i have been able to scrape together this with just me fumbling around with the UDK:

its not a large map, but as i said, it would probably be best to map sure i can make a functional map first before increasing the scale.

things2.png

Edited by iridesence
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Its still possible to give the impression of an larger area while using small space. The "magic" is in the way how it gets setup.

You can look at how the map for GTA: Vice City had been done to get an idea of what im saying. The capabilities of hardware at the time, combined with platforms the game was supposed to get released on limited them to an rather small map dimension. Yet the result is spectacularly legendary, giving the impression of an true city when wandering inside the tiny vice city.

In reality you have just only made an half-circle driving through the coast way, the way the game (environment, game speed, etc) set up, gives you the impression of having traveled far, it comes off as natural.

Another thing to always factor in, is how having multiple ways of getting from one spot to other inside the playable area can -naturally- end up having enlargened the map in the player's perception. In the case of Renegade that applies not only to having multiple vehicle entrances but multiple pathways for infantry.

If you cannot get an picture in mind, firing up some of the later C&C's may help with getting an layout imagined, as Renegade is based on C&C you can be ensured similar design philosophy still applies to an extent despite one being an RTS and the other an FPS.

Something like 'Black's Big Battle' from C&C3 or 'Industrial something'(sorry guys, didnt fire up RA3 in long,although i remember the map's terrain) from RA3 can be got to function in Renegade with minimal alterations. Most of the 1v1 maps layout should able to get adopted into RenX easily.

Edited by Eagle XI
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