Back in game. thoughts

[isupreme]

Hey All,       I finally got a new machine and a new connection and am back in the game.

I like most of the new changes i see.    But since i have never been able to play with effects full on before it seems like a new game to me!   Wow those colors  and effects are awesome.

Sadly i really miss the gameplay of timed games.       Were they just not liked?  What happened  to them and is there ANY interest in bringing them back??

But it is still a GREAT GAME !      And i do not have to portal to enter a building.....  wow... lol.

[boxes]

AOW brought forth a second victory condition that was overall too complicated for players to grasp. People have to understand how the point system works, what gives the most points vs what gives the least, and what you should or should not do.

Marathon offers one simple victory condition, blow up the enemy base. Nothing more, nothing less, easy to understand. 

[Fffreak9999]

I did put up another server (and it is still running), of Timed Matches.

If you manage to get people on, you may be able to enjoy AOW again

[isupreme]

Quote

AOW brought forth a second victory condition that was overall too complicated for players to grasp

sad but true i guess.     I think it was the best element of the game because it presented so many different ways to win.

 

2 hours ago, Fffreak9999 said:

did put up another server (and it is still running), of Timed Matches.

I thought i saw one up!     Hope survives another day...

[j0g32]

Hm... to be honest, I don't know why "AOW" needs a seperate name - it is just a server setting, though which affects gameplay and strategies, but the goal is still the same - destroy the enemy base while protecting your own.

The scores/points should reflect the efforts/effectiveness of either team towards this goal. The timer just helps to avoid games from dragging on and getting stalematy, and just takes a snapshot of the total war efforts till this point. Yes, it also entices players for desperate/crazy actions in the last minutes since there are no consequences to it, but this is Game Theory 101 and unavoidable :-P

It is unfortunate that "AOW" does not seem to be that popular, in terms of active player numbers and/or servers hosting it - though, I don't know who to blame, or what is the cause...

[Madkill40]

If AOW instigated an automatic surrender of the team with the lowest points for the last 5 minutes of the game it would probably be played more often, what people don't like is an abrupt ending to a match so an entire team turning Heroic would be a very nice reward for them to end it. (However the other team should keep their veterancy)

This would cease a stalemate and ensure the 45 minute game ends with a push.

[Henk]

I see CT's AOW server is now called Timed Match Server. That is a better description imo. I think the time that can run out right when a game could be getting exciting can be a bit anticlimactic. What would help a lot is a countdown anouncement that would say "10 minutes remaining", etc. Just like in the Tiberian Sun. Would make it more tense for sure.

[Fffreak9999]

1 hour ago, Henk said:

I see CT's AOW server is now called Timed Match Server. That is a better description imo. I think the time that can run out right when a game could be getting exciting can be a bit anticlimactic. What would help a lot is a countdown anouncement that would say "10 minutes remaining", etc. Just like in the Tiberian Sun. Would make it more tense for sure.

Well Henk, make it happen

[Madkill40]

5 hours ago, Henk said:

I see CT's AOW server is now called Timed Match Server. That is a better description imo. I think the time that can run out right when a game could be getting exciting can be a bit anticlimactic. What would help a lot is a countdown anouncement that would say "10 minutes remaining", etc. Just like in the Tiberian Sun. Would make it more tense for sure.

And then the last 5 minutes of an AOW or Timed Match Server should result in the team with the highest points being promoted to Heroic in order to end the game within the last 5 minutes. (Losing team gets to keep whatever rank they already have, to give the losing team a chance to underdog their victory)

[j0g32]

7 hours ago, Madkill40 said:

And then the last 5 minutes of an AOW or Timed Match Server should result in the team with the highest points being promoted to Heroic in order to end the game within the last 5 minutes. (Losing team gets to keep whatever rank they already have, to give the losing team a chance to underdog their victory)

I dont think that's a good idea.

The surrender mechanics (promoting the dominating team to heroic) are meant to bring about an "inevitable" result (as perceived by the surrendering team) more quickly, since the game would continue until every single building was destroyed.

A timed game will end with certainty, but might be a close win/loose. The nature of these games is more competitive (just like most sports) since every score counts. And in those tight games, both sides will fight even harder in the last minutes to gain victory. After that you shake hands, admire the effort ("gg") and go for a new round.

In marathon however, only perma-damage to buildings will decide the winner. Anything else may support that, but will not be relevant for victory otherwise.

The loosing team is of course free to surrender at any time, but that is up to them, and I think less likely to happen in timed games in the first place...

[Ryz]

Too be honest I missed AOW games at first, but never had that feeling since veterancy was introduced. Now there are 'these' four different games if you ask me:

- Instant win (few attacks early game do very much damage, game is over soon)
- Long term win (one game has to lead from early game and grows stronger)
- Rare stalemates (Snow for example with no damage vs no damage and a lot of kills)
- Equal balanced team games / sort of stalemate but more interesting (no real progress till a part of the team gets Elite)

In the past Marathon games a match would sometimes last hours without any noticeable progress. Now you gain VP and can work towards that goal generally giving the game more a feeling that you are achieving something. In fact the best games I had were those ones. I can give two examples of games in which everybody (at least on the team I was in) greatly enjoyed it:

Lakeside
We Nod, enemy GDI (ofc). Nod loses strip early game (within 5 minutes) yet manages to get GDI out of the base for 60... SBH rushes and other attacks do some damage. Teams are always between 20 and 25 players and GDI has 10 ~15 campers. GDI almost never attacks, Nod gains VP, steals vehicles, etc. In the end almost whole Nod is Elite or Heroic and overrules GDI (even without vehicles). Bar dies, WF dies.... Ref is camped by mammies sitting in front of every door. Still Nod forces manage to kill them slowly. Nod wins after (I guess) 90 minutes or more....

Xmountain
This was a few weeks ago, don't renember all the details. We were GDI and killed one building early in the game (Ref I suppose). The game lasted for at least an hour without any damage. GDI doesn't get organized, Nod gains VP. Suddenly Nod kills the BAR and GDI the HON. GDI looks like still in the better position but around one and a half hour nothing happened yet. GDI loses more buildings (not sure in which order) and suddenly it's PP vs PP and strip.... Enemy strip gets killed at 2 hours and GDI PP almost dies. Yet a rocket rush (after 2 hours and 20 min or something) suddenly kills Nod PP. 

This game could have gone anywhere. GDI should have won if you looked at the starting situation but 'we' got punished for doing nothing and Nod got a 'bonus' for their effort resulting in more VP and more kills / building damage.

GG's!

 

Edited October 24, 2017 by Ryz
Typo

[vandal33]

I like AOW's extra winning condition. If a team managed to defend their base against all sorts of attacks from the other team, then they deserve to keep their base and the other team is forced to win with time expiry. It's a small victory to the losing team if they still manage to defend until time runs out. This kinda belief would (hopefully) reduce rage quitters.

Unlimited timed games that don't end by the time an AOW should end would only drag the game on for hours, causing people to quit because we only be doing the same thing and failing it over and over again until one team is weakened when their players started leaving or just got bored and started trolling. And Heroic mendozas running everywhere. Honestly, if I was recording a match like this, it wouldn't look fun playing for hours doing and failing the same thing and I don't think people who don't play Renegade would find this appealing.

Just my thoughts.

[Ryz]

3 hours ago, vandal33 said:

I like AOW's extra winning condition. If a team managed to defend their base against all sorts of attacks from the other team, then they deserve to keep their base and the other team is forced to win with time expiry. It's a small victory to the losing team if they still manage to defend until time runs out. This kinda belief would (hopefully) reduce rage quitters.

I liked these kind of games also, but most AOWs which were a close call were played very different and too conservative. People would get blamed for getting an expensive unit and losing it and it was mainly encouraged to almost play hide and seek in order to not lose anything. I've seen AOW games where two teams were close and just waited for eachother for the last (for example) ten minutes of the game. When I tried to organize a rush or something people got mad... "If you rush now you give them points... " Or "attacking is useless,  we have the lead." 

In general I rather lose and have a good fight than fall in sleep behind my PC waiting for the end of the game. I don't like the super conservative gamestyle, but that's also just an opinion. Since the new system is introduced these 'wait and try not to fall a sleep' games are gone and I like it!

[isupreme]

Quote

A timed game will end with certainty, but might be a close win/loose. The nature of these games is more competitive (just like most sports) since every score counts. And in those tight games, both sides will fight even harder in the last minutes to gain victory. After that you shake hands, admire the effort ("gg") and go for a new round.

o man i can taste it.    That is the stuff.  right there.

 

[RustyShackleford]

On 10/23/2017 at 10:41 AM, Madkill40 said:

If AOW instigated an automatic surrender of the team with the lowest points for the last 5 minutes of the game it would probably be played more often, what people don't like is an abrupt ending to a match so an entire team turning Heroic would be a very nice reward for them to end it. (However the other team should keep their veterancy)

This would cease a stalemate and ensure the 45 minute game ends with a push.

ew no! The surrender mechanic is totally broken. Surrender by definition means to give up. Not to be "downgraded to Recruit while the other team goes Heroic and kill farms for 5 minutes". 

If everyone is set on keeping Surrender as is, then please don't downgrade the surrendering team to Recruit. Making the winning team all Heroic is fine.

 

[Madkill40]

2 hours ago, RustyShackleford said:

ew no! The surrender mechanic is totally broken. Surrender by definition means to give up. Not to be "downgraded to Recruit while the other team goes Heroic and kill farms for 5 minutes". 

If everyone is set on keeping Surrender as is, then please don't downgrade the surrendering team to Recruit. Making the winning team all Heroic is fine.

 

Just for AoW - "(However the other team should keep their veterancy)"

Read entire post.

Normal surrender typically ended a (marathon) game so abruptly it took away the victory from the winning team which the losing team did so purposefully snidely it was downright spiteful.

AoW should just upgrade the team with the highest points to Heroic in the games' last 5 minutes, it gives AoW a rewarding goal to be the team with the highest score towards the end. A team full of Heroic but now cocky players can still give the then losing team a chance to underdog and steal victory in the last 5 minutes as well so long as the losing team keeps their veterancy. Make the end game a better end, a reason for players to last out till the end. Bare in mind some players don't experience 'Heroic' as frequently as others without a Surrender vote.