Mesa Poll

[TheDeadlyWolf]

Hello Guys, The alpha of Stronghold is soon to be released (my side project) and therefore it would be time to start Glacier_Flying, however a problem has occurred ( @Henk steam chat)

For this reason I have decided to bring back the original mesa/the remaster from an older beta, feels better and more entertaining than the current one

Originally called Mesa_ii by nielsen

Tanks Middle + Side

Infant Side

Harvesters Middle

P.S. As I cant do Glacier for Now, I'm going to start Mesa_ii soon

Edited August 9, 2017 by TheDeadlyWolf

[TK0104]

Hard to decide because both have it's advantages and disadvantages. In the current version, sneaking to the Power Plant is a big advantage for both factions, while Nod keep winning because of the Arty Party on the short side. On the Beta 3 version the advantage is that there are no arty party, but the sneaking is  completely gone if the power plant is alive.

 

When I have to choose between those 2, I choose for the current version.

 

@yosh56@kenz3001@Havoc89@Ruud033@Henk What are your thoughts? What was the reason to change Mesa? I guess because of this.....

[kenz3001]

mesa was changed for good reasons ... the unit balances might of made the old version play a little bit better but nothing like what the current version does.

[TheDeadlyWolf]

Whenever I play the current Mesa, it's normally always down to infiltrating the power plant to win, so it's a 24/7 run to pp till it's death, at least with tank battles it more interesting and not always the same shit ; )

 

Original:

GDI Base - PP + Ref at back, WF and Bar at front

Nod Base - Everything in the same place but the PP was rotated

[TK0104]

22 minutes ago, TheDeadlyWolf said:

Nod Base - Everything in the same place but the PP was rotated

And Obby. Originally front side faced the cave

[Sn4ke]

the original Mesa was awesome

but... maybe a compromise? Cave open for tanking action but Harvesters still go to the long route? [maybe reposition the tiberium fields to buff harvy dump times]

[Tommy]

Yes get Mesa II and old Field Back

[TK0104]

11 minutes ago, TRRDroid said:

Yes get Mesa II and old Field Back

@yosh56 Bring back the old Field and rename the current one to Field II

[Fffreak9999]

I have the old maps on the Retro server.

If you try to join them, you will download the old versions of these maps.

[Calvin]

The old mesa map was awesome the maps lasted longer and the veh combat was way more fun i suggest adding it back in im sure a lot of people (specially from old ren) will really love it. 

I dont care about the old field i only liked the tunnels in old field more, less tunnel whoring

[yosh56]

15 minutes ago, poi said:

less tunnel whoring

We didn't play the same old Field then... Nothing but startfire with an Art and go make a sammich

[Calvin]

6 minutes ago, yosh56 said:

We didn't play the same old Field then... Nothing but startfire with an Art and go make a sammich

We did not have mrls rockets doing circles in the tunnels tho and remove the startfire ability it sooks !  

I love this version of field the tunnels are so awesome  (dat mine limit tho)! 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by poi

[TheDeadlyWolf]

2 hours ago, TK0104 said:

@yosh56 Bring back the old Field and rename the current one to Field II

I was actually gonna bring the original field back as well, however as that was a more recent conversion, I thought someone might still have that, or infact being run on the retro server that I've see in the past

 

1 hour ago, Fffreak9999 said:

I have the old maps on the Retro server.

If you try to join them, you will download the old versions of these maps.

Does this include the Original Mesa that was made for Renegade X (before Beta 3), not the 2nd nor 3rd (current) edition?

 

1 hour ago, poi said:

The old mesa map was awesome the maps lasted longer and the veh combat was way more fun i suggest adding it back in im sure a lot of people (specially from old ren) will really love it. 

I dont care about the old field i only liked the tunnels in old field more, less tunnel whoring

Yeah, the Classic Maps were quality and great fun - gotta love the old Renegade

Edited August 9, 2017 by TheDeadlyWolf

[Fffreak9999]

1 hour ago, TheDeadlyWolf said:

Does this include the Original Mesa that was made for Renegade X (before Beta 3), not the 2nd nor 3rd (current) edition?

i have been able to get most versions

[Havoc89]

Classic Mesa was terrible, same with old field. Don't let nostalgia cloud your judgement in this case.

Classic Mesa gave infantry absolutely no infiltration options except for harvy walking and in case you don't remember harvester also used to go in the middle where it would endlessly bump into vehicles because they're camping like mad. It also means you have no airstrike options to fend off the carnage in the middle. It was a pretty aweful map, and I would not advise it what so ever.

Old Field... Unless you're playing in a game of 24 or less players, Old field becomes a bottle-necked thing of chaos. So... again, its not as great as you think it was. Don't get me wrong I had tonnes of fun games on it, but none of them were above the that player count.

[NodSaibot]

1 hour ago, Havoc89 said:

Classic Mesa was terrible, same with old field. Don't let nostalgia cloud your judgement in this case.

Classic Mesa gave infantry absolutely no infiltration options except for harvy walking and in case you don't remember harvester also used to go in the middle where it would endlessly bump into vehicles because they're camping like mad. It also means you have no airstrike options to fend off the carnage in the middle. It was a pretty aweful map, and I would not advise it what so ever.

Old Field... Unless you're playing in a game of 24 or less players, Old field becomes a bottle-necked thing of chaos. So... again, its not as great as you think it was. Don't get me wrong I had tonnes of fun games on it, but none of them were above the that player count.

Wise.

[DoctorAnubis]

1 hour ago, Havoc89 said:

Classic Mesa was terrible, same with old field. Don't let nostalgia cloud your judgement in this case.

Classic Mesa gave infantry absolutely no infiltration options except for harvy walking and in case you don't remember harvester also used to go in the middle where it would endlessly bump into vehicles because they're camping like mad. It also means you have no airstrike options to fend off the carnage in the middle. It was a pretty aweful map, and I would not advise it what so ever.

Old Field... Unless you're playing in a game of 24 or less players, Old field becomes a bottle-necked thing of chaos. So... again, its not as great as you think it was. Don't get me wrong I had tonnes of fun games on it, but none of them were above the that player count.

Is it possible for servers to allocate maps depending on current player count? If so, old Mesa and Field could be deployed under these circumstances, as well as other maps which function best under certain conditions. Old field for sure plays better than the new, when fewer players are involved.

[OTT]

As terrible as they were, old field and pre beta 3 mesa had some likable things in them,I'm with the idea of bringing them back in addition to the new ones,well maybe remove them from the map voting list when the players are above 30/40 (if such a thing is possible)

10 hours ago, poi said:

 (dat mine limit tho)! 

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by ObeliskTheTormentor

[Fffreak9999]

1 hour ago, DoctorAnubis said:

Is it possible for servers to allocate maps depending on current player count? If so, old Mesa and Field could be deployed under these circumstances, as well as other maps which function best under certain conditions. Old field for sure plays better than the new, when fewer players are involved.

Currently no.

[TheDeadlyWolf]

10 hours ago, Havoc89 said:

Classic Mesa gave infantry absolutely no infiltration options except for harvy walking and in case you don't remember harvester also used to go in the middle where it would endlessly bump into vehicles because they're camping like mad. It also means you have no airstrike options to fend off the carnage in the middle. It was a pretty aweful map, and I would not advise it what so ever.

Old Field... Unless you're playing in a game of 24 or less players, Old field becomes a bottle-necked thing of chaos. So... again, its not as great as you think it was. Don't get me wrong I had tonnes of fun games on it, but none of them were above the that player count.

Well you could actually cause havoc with infantry if you actually team up and work together, e.g. gunner rush Ref, Air and obi (in a certain location)

Nod could sprint to Ref in a group, or attack the buildings from afar - Ref AGT and Bar

- No Solo Infiltration, it's a team game anyway

- Well Mesa requires Teamwork, so if you don't have that, you're slightly screwed

- The harvesters to the middle made more sense and were more fun than to the side

- Also, who uses Airstrike anyway? The same problem would happen on Glacier ; )

 

You could always stick these maps on AOW, so after the hour the game ends?

I would say 30 players or less

Once again teamwork is Key

 

Another thing that could help these stalemates, is Bring Back Hard Nut Mister Tickles(Ion)/Kane(Nuke) - A person you can acquire from the box with every weapon

Edited August 10, 2017 by TheDeadlyWolf

[Sn4ke]

27 minutes ago, TheDeadlyWolf said:

Another thing that could help these stalemates, is Bring Back Hard Nut Mister Tickles(Ion)/Kane(Nuke) - A person you can acquire from the box with every weapon

whats that?

something like Petrova?

[TK0104]

20 hours ago, poi said:

 

Lol didn't knew I participated in this video (4:29)

 

I was a n00b on RenX back in the day

Edited August 10, 2017 by TK0104

[Tommy]

I found the Beta 2 installer, this on definitely includes the old Mesa II:

http://www.indiedb.com/games/renegade-x/downloads/renegade-x-open-beta-2-multiplayer

 

[TK0104]

5 minutes ago, TRRDroid said:

I found the Beta 2 installer, this on definitely includes the old Mesa II:

http://www.indiedb.com/games/renegade-x/downloads/renegade-x-open-beta-2-multiplayer

 

The only problem is that we can't access the maps or packages from beta 1,2 and 3. Since the release of Beta 4, the SDK came out and the Devs changed it so we could add our maps and assets to the actual game.

 

Or the devs know how to extract the game and gain access

Edited August 10, 2017 by TK0104

[Tommy]

5 minutes ago, TK0104 said:

The only problem is that we can't access the maps or packages from beta 1,2 and 3. Since the release of Beta 4, the SDK came out and the Devs changed it so we could add our maps and assets to the actual game.

 

Or the devs know how to extract the game and gain access

So the maps weren't single packages back then like now?

[TheDeadlyWolf]

10 minutes ago, TRRDroid said:

I found the Beta 2 installer, this on definitely includes the old Mesa II:

http://www.indiedb.com/games/renegade-x/downloads/renegade-x-open-beta-2-multiplayer

 

Yeah, that's were I got the file from and the reason why I created this poll, as it will take a lot of effort as everything is more or less missing, however the layout is the same

[TK0104]

2 hours ago, TRRDroid said:

So the maps weren't single packages back then like now?

No, all assets and maps were compiled to (a) file(s) people couldn't access back in the day. 

I don't know how I can say it different but it's complicated

[Havoc89]

13 hours ago, TheDeadlyWolf said:

Well you could actually cause havoc with infantry if you actually team up and work together, e.g. gunner rush Ref, Air and obi (in a certain location)

Nod could sprint to Ref in a group, or attack the buildings from afar - Ref AGT and Bar

You can cause havoc with enough infantry on any map in the entire game... Which is why those should not be used to guage a map's fun factor because that is a universal aspect of the game.
 

Quote

- No Solo Infiltration, it's a team game anyway

Umm... dont confuse rushes for infiltration. Rushes are large assaults on a base that are loud and obvious, while infiltration are stealthy sneak attacks done in much smaller numbers. Both are ideal tactics in the game and in every map.
 

Quote

- Well Mesa requires Teamwork, so if you don't have that, you're slightly screwed

That's true in every other map, and in the entire game as well.

 

Quote

- The harvesters to the middle made more sense and were more fun than to the side

Harvester bumping into vehicles in the cave is not way more fun! Not by a long shot.

 

Quote

- Also, who uses Airstrike anyway? The same problem would happen on Glacier ; )

I use air strikes all the time! They are great at giving you a chance to push enemies back. That's especially true when there is no cave ceiling above your head. 

 

[TheDeadlyWolf]

33 minutes ago, Havoc89 said:

Umm... dont confuse rushes for infiltration. Rushes are large assaults on a base that are loud and obvious, while infiltration are stealthy sneak attacks done in much smaller numbers. Both are ideal tactics in the game and in every map.

 

Harvester bumping into vehicles in the cave is not way more fun! Not by a long shot.

I wasn't - No more 24/7 people trying to infiltrate the PPs (The same old shit)

You either have the entire team or a few people always trying to enter the Powerpoint stealthily

 

Well, some maps require more teamwork than others, and mesa_ii was one of them 

 

Well, Harvesters made more sense going to the middle rather than the side 100%

And it was also fun to Harvy Walk/Block the harvester in the tunnel

 

13 hours ago, DarkSn4ke said:

whats that?

something like Petrova?

Like a Boss, with Extra Health and Every Weapon - best box item ever - Hard Nut Mister Tickles/Kane

*Can't Remember if Base Defences attacked you or not

Edited August 11, 2017 by TheDeadlyWolf

[Sn4ke]

6 hours ago, TheDeadlyWolf said:

best box item ever

hard to balance something like this as you have to take exp. & skill into account.

any vehicle ( esp those from the opponent fraction) crate can be "the best box item". same with any spy unit (maybe apart from the marksman, as he can solo a building, except for placing a beacon).

 

[TK0104]

Another thing on the old Mesa: GDI vehicles that came out of the WF were getting easily pounded by vehicles in the cave

Edited August 13, 2017 by TK0104

[Ruud033]

Yeah I think lots of the old shortcomings are solved in the newer maps. Nostalgia is the main factor here that limits the way of thinking..

[Sn4ke]

13 minutes ago, Ruud033 said:

Nostalgia is the main factor here that limits the way of thinking..

true, but you can deal with this by repositioning two buildings or turning the WF around....

Edited August 17, 2017 by DarkSn4ke

[Ruud033]

20 minutes ago, DarkSn4ke said:

true, but you can deal with this by repositioning two buildings or turning the WF around....

That only solves part of the puzzle

[limsup]

Kind of funny, how this poll turned out to be basically development team vs. the beta testers
By the way, where are @Schmitzenbergh and @kenz3001? With their votes, dev-s could take the lead 

Edited August 18, 2017 by limsup

[kenz3001]

i already said why mesa is the way it is

[Sn4ke]

here speaks the true tanker @TheDeadlyWolf

[infantry is for infants only ]

[roweboat]

I remember old Mesa well. from Old Ren & the orignal RenX Mesa. it always felt it was a mixed bag. It was nothing more than a mad rush to get arties and MRLS into the cave quickly and hope the splash damage would clear a path to then get a clear shot at the WF / Nod PP? (i don't remember layout).

 

but yeah I do remember it being extra crazy for GDI because half the time MRLS were getting destroyed as they were being built because the arties had domination.

 

And then of course everyone screamed watch out for the harvester cuz it would always get in the way...

 

Like I said, mixed bag cuz it was stupid and chaotic but also fun some of the times =D

[Sn4ke]

56 minutes ago, roweboat said:

but yeah I do remember it being extra crazy for GDI because half the time MRLS were getting destroyed as they were being built because the arties had domination.

only Meds / Mammoth tanks worked on the original Mesa. maybe 1 MRLS & 1 APC as support unit.

[roweboat]

Well then I guess I was that 1 MRLS