Every Unit Does it Left-Handed

[Madkill40]

What's the point?

Infantry have very little directive outside of "GET INSIDE BUILDING> PLANT C4s> OMG SHOOT EVERYTHING", we've allowed every unit a chance to take down a building and all this did was promote early-game rushes which is great if you're designing every match played to be done via TeamSpeak.

Players need a better chance at surviving as infantry, Vehicles need a higher risk of entering into a base full of infantry, the battles need to be more engaging than the pits of canon-fodder they gradually amount to.

So every single unit has a Timed C4 charge and so every single unit is a danger to a building, maybe games will be a little bit more manageable with Timed C4 replacements? 

What if the Timed C4 was removed from most infantry units and was replaced with the option to have a Frag Grenade, EMP Grenade, Smoke Grenade or an Airstrike? Let's face it, when most high-tier infantry get into a building a Timed C4 will usually slow them down or enable the player to cheat themselves a quick building kill. No teamwork required. Why you would ever need teamwork to win in this game to begin with; that's all this implies.

 

Below is a suggested replacement list for the Timed C4. 

Free infantry (Exception of Engineer)| Flamer: AT-Mine, Grenadier: AT-Mine, [BOTH Teams] Riffleman: Frag Grenade, Shotgunner: Smoke Grenade.

T1 Infantry | Officer [BOTH Teams] 1-Plane Airstrike, McFarland: Smoke Grenade, Chem: Smoke Grenade, Rocket Soldier [BOTH Teams]: EMP Grenade.

T2 Infantry (Exception of Hotwire/Technician)| Gunner/LCG: 2-Plane Airstrike, SBH: Smoke Grenade, Patch: EMP Grenade, BHS: EMP Grenade, Dead-Eye: Smoke Grenade.

T3 Infantry | Havoc: Airstrike, Sakura: Airstrike, Mobius: Smoke Grenade, Mendoza: Airstrike, Sydney: Airstrike, Raveshaw: Smoke Grenade.

 

If it all possible:

A 1-Plane, 1 Payload Airstrike would be an ideal replacement for the Officers' Timed C4.

A 2-Plane, 2 Payload Airstrike would be ideal for the Gunner/LCG Timed C4 replacement.

 

"Why do SBH only get Smoke Grenades when the Patch gets EMP?" | SBH can get into a base and stay there for as long as until they are caught, a Patch is seen much easier especially when there's more than 3 of them. 

"BHS with an EMP Grenade? But a Dead-Eye with a smoke?" BHS will have more trouble against GDI vehicles, Dead-Eye faces more trouble from SBH.

Remember, Remember, Remember! These units would no longer have Timed C4s. 

[ex_member]

...

Edited September 22, 2018 by ex_member

[Schmitzenbergh]

I'm worried you're going to shift the balance of vehicles a lot with this. I use timed C4 a lot on vehicles, thus making all infantry a thread to the lightly armored ones (Arty, mlrs, hummer and buggy)

Sbh + c4 is a deadly combo for MLRS' that are shooting from a safe distance. The same with any arty.

I'm not against experimenting though.

[RoundShades]

Get laser walls first, start games with them ACTIVATED FROM START, test balance, move on from there.

Afterwards, if need be, mess with it. However, I think balancing game-start, with mid/end game, is going to cause problems. For whole-game balance, I'd probably at this very moment, nerf timed c4 damage, but let players buy 2 for 800 credits, and then reduce beacon cost to 800, and make hotwires also start with only a single timed c4 and their remotes, and engis with only their remotes and no timed at all.

[Axesor]

Welp, thats interesting. We need to get the laser door first, it would be defenitely more compatible with it, as @YagiHige mentioned. Then try to make a mutator so it could be tested. Infantry vs vehicles battles would be defenitely interesting as there will be no more annoying c4 free infantry suicide runs. Iam just a bit worried about the buildings. It's something that cant be accurately predicted what will happen if there was such a thing.

Again, its something that you need to work on, otherwise nobody will.

[Henk]

5 hours ago, YagiHige said:

Get laser walls first, start games with them ACTIVATED FROM START, test balance, move on from there.

 

This is what I was about to say.

[Calvin]

Laser walls < Cannot believe why people would even want that. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by poi

[Axesor]

Not voting yes, neither no. You just gotta make a mutator. I think everybody will be happy to test it for at least 1 day. Such little event  ..sadly i cant play. Maybe ppl will be happy and it stays.

@poi I'd like to calm you, that laser wall is like mines.. it's replacement of mines for door defence doing exactly the same thing as mines do, having the same damage and can be hacked with rep gun, but cant be trolled or griefed, so there is nothing to worry about. It's full possitive change with no cons. Mines will stay but they will be vulnerable.

[Calvin]

Just seems like a waste of the time for the devs to focuss on stuff like that, theres literally nothing wrong with the mine system we have now. It's just some people don't seem to understand how to defend or something.. I still think it's not needed and there should be a poll about that aswell, so everyone can speak out themself 

[Guest Gliven]

People are too butthurt about losing a building to newbies mines.

Laser walls are a horrible idea.

also get rid of c4 from infantry? no way. I liked the old feature of getting to choose between a grenade or timed c4 in the older betas, but get rid of c4 from most infantry? HELL NO

@Axesor why have mines and lasers. people are still going to put mines at doors no matter whatever new thing you add to the game. you are only adding a new layer to defense. lasers are a horrible idea.

[Axesor]

@Gliven Laser wall is an awesome flawless thingie that will solve the mines problem for ever. Limit 3mines for tech/hott player will mostly prevent from placing mines indoor. If not, mines can be destroyed with a few direct shots. Nobody could explain why is this such a horrible idea yet.

@poi there is a poll. Laser wall is also well described in that thread. https://renegade-x.com/forums/topic/75038-mining/

On 14. 10. 2016 at 6:32 PM, Axesor said:

1. Mines could be damaged by weapons (direct hits only)

2. Replace team mine limit with player mine limit

3. 1 laser damage = current 1 mine damage. After 1 laser been used, it recharges for XX second (like 15), cant be repaired to speed it up

4. Control panel (scanner on the picture next to the door) can be hacked or repaired with rep gun just like silo. Also disabled with emp for XX seconds. It will stop the lasers.

5. 2 lasers in each window with no control panel

Intuitive, noob friendly - awesome replacement for current mines use. Flawless.

 

 

On 15. 10. 2016 at 11:53 AM, Henk said:

This is similar to what I had in mind, some things I would do differently.

- To keep the value of the Advanced Engineers (Tech and Hotwire), the control panel should only be fixable by that class.

- They should however be active from the start of the game to prevent early rushes.

- If the laser system is disarmed by hacking the control panel, the laser shouldn't recharge (So only recharge when they are "broken" by walking through them)

- Hear a laser sound when an enemy player walks through the lasers, hear a sound similar to the mine disarm sound when the system is hacked (maybe just slightly louder because you would hear it only once)

- I think the windows should also have disarmable lasers, for the HoN, put 1 control panel on each of the 3 sides. Maybe give the windows slightly weaker laser walls.

- I was thinking instead of 3 beams, have one wall of lasers, that starts flickering and sparking when it's damaged. 

- Hacking the system doesn't make the lasers flicker and spark, it would simply go from on to off when the hack is completed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKsYBew_D5I&t=1m45s  1:45

Does not matter if it will be laser wall or beams.

If there is more questions about a laser wall, pls discuss it in the thread posted above

Edited November 3, 2016 by Axesor

[voltex]

I like the idea of using frag grenades again and taking c4 away from some free inf might be good but having large amounts of smoke grenades and AT mines available at the start for free would just make things worse imo.

It would be nice to not have to desperately run away or try and kill every free inf that gets close to you while in a vehicle like an elephant running from a mouse, for fear that you will either be destroyed or loose a massive chunk of health in the next 60sec. Yes they can be disarmed (most of the time) but there's not always an engineer nearby and while its being disarmed you're not being repaired which can still get your vehicle killed.

Basically every free inf can potentially do a lot of damage and its just weird how even a mammoth tank desperately tries to run away from a soldier next to it for fear of c4.

And no lazor wallz pls...

Edited November 3, 2016 by voltex

[RoundShades]

With classes not having c4, you need to severely buff their everything for them to be even a fart of effectual presence. I'd only go for it, if assault rifles did 2 health to heavy armor for every bullet. And that's NOT unrealistic compared to the original C&C, infantry gunfire could kill a tank in 20 seconds of sustained fire, even if they were just bullets. Just, the gunfire killed other infantry in 3 seconds.

[Henk]

I like that every infantry unit has the potential to do a massive amount of damage to a building with a timed C4.

[SvN91]

I'd like to be able to choose different options when I purchase infantry. So all free infantry can have ether c4/frag/smoke.

[j0g32]

Or make frag the default free option and smoke purchasable for 50 and C4 for 200.

Might be enough to  prevent tier 1 rushes?

[vandal33]

Just my opinion, I'm not against making every infantry to have a Timed C4, I know early rushes are annoying but I think teams deserve to lose a building if they failed to defend structures from infantry sneaking/shooting their way in. People would take every part of the game(specially early games) more seriously. I like any kind of infantry to be a threat so people won't underestimate when a single generic soldier is inside their base. I still prefer having a selectable C4/Grenade in the purchase menu like in the previous beta.

Then you say: how it is easy for 5 mendozas to put 5 timed charges on MCT and defend it, if the whole team responds to it then you should counter those mendozas, it would make people care more about their base. If the whole team doesn't have powerful characters, then they should lose for letting the enemy have 5 mendozas while they can't afford something equal to counter them. Even if mendozas don't have C4s, they can still rush with 4 mendoza and 1 technician which is enough to destroy a building plus healing ability.

I just don't want regular soldiers to lose their effectiveness when on the loose inside an enemy base.

[Madkill40]

Lazer Wall discussion is for the mining thread, silly. Nothin' to do with this thread. 

On 11/3/2016 at 7:33 AM, Schmitzenbergh said:

I'm worried you're going to shift the balance of vehicles a lot with this. I use timed C4 a lot on vehicles, thus making all infantry a thread to the lightly armored ones (Arty, mlrs, hummer and buggy)

Sbh + c4 is a deadly combo for MLRS' that are shooting from a safe distance. The same with any arty.

I'm not against experimenting though.

Infantry giving vehicles an actual sense of danger; more frequent EMP Grenades, more Airstrikes, more Smoke and more Frags?

Surely more infantry with less timed C4's covering engineers can do more damage with frags, emps and smokes instead of any infantry playing scarper with a tank.

[j0g32]

Vehicle weakspots, anyone? ^^

[Boomer]

On 2016/11/4 at 10:26 PM, j0g32 said:

Vehicle weakspots, anyone? ^^

You mean 1-C4 instant kill for Titans then recover the husks with Engineers?

[Axesor]

I'll take a look at it when my new computer arrives, but I'll be more sober-minded about replacements for c4. No free airstrikes. But also modify DMG types a lil bit to compensate this c4 take away.. increasing damage multiplier againts vehicles and building. Also be trying to make some big gamechanging things if you dont mind.. makin it more like original c&c strategy game on ps1, hehe -_• 

Have you even tried to realize your idea @Madkill40?

Edited January 23, 2017 by Axesor

[yosh56]

1 hour ago, Axesor said:

original c&c strategy game on ps1

GTFO

[Axesor]

@yosh56 but it was my childhood ;_; !

Remember when you accidently shot enemys harvester or building, and enemy ai sent all it's units on you to defend? This is what i want to archieve

Edited January 23, 2017 by Axesor