Totem Arts Staff LavaDr4gon Posted October 25, 2016 Totem Arts Staff Share Posted October 25, 2016 Simple question whether Lakeside should have flying in it or not. Currently orcas/apaches are very powerful on this map. Ground vehicles are hardly used despite the large field that barely anyone goes to. Looking at the PUGs the strategy is the same and the team that wins uses orcas/apaches rushes. There is a big open field out there that is hardly used anymore and could potentially host great vehicular battles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn4ke Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Remove building stairs or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrypTheBear Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) On 25.10.2016 at 7:21 PM, DarkSn4ke said: Remove building stairs or not? Non-flying would mean that the buildings are in the same state as they would be on a typical non-flying map. In short, yes. They'd (have to) be removed. EDIT: Alright, fine, I got it I got it. They can have stairs. lol. In addition to that I would like to see some other flying only maps as they were in the classical Ren, such as Walls. There is Walls_Flying and just Walls. As that would be very interesting, since infantry combat suddenly becomes a lot more interesting and no longer "who can shoot down the most orcas/transports/apaches" while avoiding to get roadkilled. Not to mention the importance of vehicles, of scouting etc. Edited October 28, 2016 by KrypTheBear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn4ke Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Kryp I know that generally non_flying = no stairs... but it could be a map without orcas/apaches but with stairs... and about Walls.. seriously? no. at least not with the current map design. Walls_non_flying needs an only_inf_path (imo) and maybe no ramps at the side (or reduced ramps) with extra inf entrance. because without orcas/apaches on the current design you got 2 entrances only... (yeah meds & stanks can easily climb the ramps, but thats not intended by map design so it's a damn glitch) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxes Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Personally I think instead of changing the map, orcas/apaches need a nerf so that they're not the must-have vehicle on Walls and Lakeside. They have the best base-killing potential among all vehicles, insane maneuverability (fastest vehicle to go to point A to B at any circumstance), hard counter vs any kind of incoming rush and infiltrators, best choice for beacon cover, and have decent survivability. But that's for another topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Arts Staff LavaDr4gon Posted October 25, 2016 Author Totem Arts Staff Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 hours ago, DarkSn4ke said: Remove building stairs or not? 3 hours ago, KrypTheBear said: Non-flying would mean that the buildings are in the same state as they would be on a typical non-flying map. In short, yes. They'd (have to) be removed. Mesa. 1 hour ago, CampinJeff said: Personally I think instead of changing the map, orcas/apaches need a nerf so that they're not the must-have vehicle on Walls and Lakeside. They have the best base-killing potential among all vehicles, insane maneuverability (fastest vehicle to go to point A to B at any circumstance), hard counter vs any kind of incoming rush and infiltrators, best choice for beacon cover, and have decent survivability. But that's for another topic. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fffreak9999 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 The ability to purchase flying vehicles is a toggle within the map in the SDK. Unfortunately to create a non-flying version also means others have to download the map again, but with this toggle set to off. Since people seem to struggle with downloading maps at the moment, I would hold back on it. As to stairs etc, they are perfectly able to be in a non-flying map, as the stairs are an optional addition to the building (seperate to the building in the SDK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madkill40 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Walls without flying units would play out a lot like Volcano, only GDI would have an easier bottleneck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Volcano has 2 vehicle entrances on opposite sides of the base, I think it would be a lot different. How did the non flying Walls play in original Renegade? About Lakeside, I think the big field is perfect for big tank battles, Flying units take away that fun a bit, but rushing with Apaches and Orcas is very fun on this map too.. For me it's kind of a dilemma. One thing done very well on this map is how the lower areas have a lot of trees that are good cover against Apaches and Orcas, and they are a bit like canyons, when I'm infantry I feel a lot less vulnerable on Lakeside than I do on Walls vs Flying Units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Lakeside non-flying sounds dope, so curious how that would work out. Walls without flying would be so good aswell like the old renegade had. Edited October 27, 2016 by poi ❄ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fffreak9999 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I can create a non-flying version of walls and lakeside and we can test it out in a PUG if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipperSnapper Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 If it was turned into a non-flying map, I think it would have a great Under/Field type atmosphere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novilan Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Snappy said: If it was turned into a non-flying map, I think it would have a great Under/Field type atmosphere. And I think it will very likely turn out like Under/Field with GDI being the dominant force in the field. Flametanks are nearly useless on Lakeside, because of their low-range they are very vulnerable on long routes with no cover. Except of some early pressure, if NOD throws tanks on GDI and some stank rushes, GDI will dominate the field on Lakeside with meds, mrls and mammoths. So if Lakeside turns into a non-flying map, it will probably need some adjustments to the field like more rocks for cover, so that NOD stands a chance there. Edited October 27, 2016 by Denuvian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxes Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 There's also a spot in the middle of the field where artys can poke the ref chimney while GDI has no counterpart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madkill40 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 If on Lakeside a little kismet could go ahead to just allow transport helicopters, that'd be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Can't the building stairs and AA structures just be dynamic actors, and the "Is Flying Map" setting be dynamic too so they can just be toggled on and off before loading the map? Seems better than needing a whole new map file of 100 to 200 MB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandal33 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 On 26/10/2016 at 1:35 AM, KrypTheBear said: Non-flying would mean that the buildings are in the same state as they would be on a typical non-flying map. In short, yes. They'd (have to) be removed. On 26/10/2016 at 4:52 AM, LavaDr4gon said: Mesa. Training yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madkill40 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 6 hours ago, vandal33 said: Training yard. We can only be fair if we count maps in the official rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoundShades Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 On 10/27/2016 at 7:32 AM, poi ❄ said: Lakeside non-flying sounds dope, so curious how that would work out. Walls without flying would be so good aswell like the old renegade had. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't original Walls (non-flying) have more limited access to plateau top? Like, not having ramps to top? I forget if it had those sniper perches, but almost sure it didn't have access to very top flat part of plateau. I don't know how one'd counter infantry up there otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn4ke Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 @who_ever_mapped_Lakeside: Do you consider to change the map to non_flying or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fffreak9999 Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I have already produced a non-flying version of the map, it is not available to others yet. I want to wait until we have a full working downloader for the custom maps sorted before introducing it, although I may see about trying it out on a PUG one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlaptop Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I'd like to see an extra AA tower in each base in a hard-to-reach place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fffreak9999 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Bare in mind Flying units are going to be more hard pressed in the new (upcoming) patch with a buff to AA defences, so please wait till after this hits before you start suggesting new map additions (for AA) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllumZar Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) @Fffreak9999 To bring this topic back to life with a new idea (Don't think this has been mentioned before): How about adding the Helipad from BeachHead to both factions??? - A new building, wich would be very exciting (especially for new Players)! - Lakeside would be set as "nonflying" in the settings -> can't buy Orcas/Apaches from WF/Strip - Aerial units could be only bought through the Helipad - VERY IMPORTANT: You can set the max number of Orcas/Apaches on the map -> for example: only 3 per team -> No Orca/Apache rush possible!!! - Intense tank warfare possible - You can still get the delicate taste of flying these b*tches beautiful, dynamic aerial machines. - The Helipad could be given a MCT and make it an independent "Techbuilding" like the Silo on Snow - Maybe make it possible to buy Orcas/Apaches if the WF/Strip is destroyed?? You guys/girls should consider this option because every time LakesideNF is being played, the server population halves... Regards Edited January 7, 2017 by IllumZar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn4ke Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, IllumZar said: You guys/girls should consider this option because every time LakesideNF is being played, the server population halves... the reason for this is......... @Schmitzenbergh and some people are too stupid to download the map. LakesideNF is an "unofficial" map... so not everyone has it -> server gets EMPTY Edited January 7, 2017 by DarkSn4ke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fffreak9999 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 @IllumZar / @DarkSn4ke It is true that LakesideNF is unofficial, it isn't just that easy to get people to download the map, although most people now do have this map, since the launcher has improved. LakesideNF Download link Link provided for direct download of LakesideNF as a reference point. As for the Heli-pad, while yes it would be possible, it would defeat the objective of a non-flying version. Many feel that flying on Lakeside is just annoying, and even if I did add the heli-pad, people would need to go through the process of re-downloading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sn4ke Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Fffreak9999 said: It is true that LakesideNF is unofficial, it isn't just that easy to get people to download the map, although most people now do have this map, since the launcher has improved. Thats the problem of any map not released with a patch another reason looking forward to the upcoming patch but maybe... LakesideNF is just not popular maybe.... the horde wants to spam Orcas/Apaches 24/7 Edited January 8, 2017 by DarkSn4ke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllumZar Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 10 hours ago, Fffreak9999 said: As for the Heli-pad, while yes it would be possible, it would defeat the objective of a non-flying version. Many feel that flying on Lakeside is just annoying, and even if I did add the heli-pad, people would need to go through the process of re-downloading. Well I wouldn't say that 2 or 3 helis per team defeat the objective of non flying. Let's say it's a nice addition that not much maps have (flying). And don't you think adding more AAs would just drag the game longer and make it more stale? I hope you consider the Helipad an option but in any case I'd love to see whatever you make out of this^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxes Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 New AA and SAMs absolutely rape air vehicles, so we'll see how it goes first before considering restrictions or removals on helis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser739 Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 Just wondering why the refinery ramps were not removed in the non-flying version, since the other buildings have been changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fffreak9999 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 @Kaiser739 Design choice, the refinery top isn't a weak point considering the rest of the buildings. It only really allows for Nukes/Ions to be placced there, and actually provides some tactical view when used by defenders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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