Destroyed Airstrip/Weapons Factory vs Hand of Nod/Barracks

[boxes]

As of right now, even after 5.1, it's easy to argue that the infantry structure is far more crucial than the vehicle one. With the introduction of infantry armors, a WF team against a HON team doesn't end well on the vehicle end, and vice versa. However, regardless which team you're on, it's still very, very, very difficult to end a game through base destruction for both teams.

~

Comparing the loss of vehicles to loss of infantry, lets highlight the benefits of a inf only team compared to a vehicle only team:

+APC>>>T1 infantry

+Advanced Repairs

+Snipers

+APCs + Advanced Repairs + AT inf + Snipers >>>>>Tanks + Standard repair

+Mines

+EMP

+Easier Infiltration

+Inf repair has faster VP gain than Vehicle repair

+No "infantry" limit as opposed to vehicle limit

+Inf structure less exposed to superweapons

+Superweapons are far more effective given less repair rate on the other team and how exposed the vehicle structures are

+Killing tanks rewards more points than killing infantry

+No real threat when using peek shooting inf (Raveshaw/Sydney, Rocket soldier, Gunner)

Now lets compare that to a Vehicle only:

+Able to deal exterior building damage w/ vehicles

+Aircraft rushes, depending on the map

+/- Harvesters, but will be a negative if you don't have field control/depends on the map

~

My two suggestions that need to changed:

-Give teams with no Hon/Bar the ability to purchase Black Hand Sniper/Deadeye for 1000. This is so vehicle teams have a proper counter to fast moving AT infantry.

-APC price needs to be bumped up to 1500, in return remove the silly 20 second delay before getting your vehicle. It's way too easy to spam these heavy armor walls for 1000 credits.

Just these two ought to fix many of the annoying problems when it comes down to an inf vs vehicle game. At this point I honestly think a game with no refineries has more progression than a game with Meds vs LCGs.

[Madkill40]

Always go for the Bar/HoN first because advanced reps are detrimental to keeping a base alive with less repairers.

I liked how you didn't include that it is much easier to camp a beacon with vehicles compared to infantry.

[boxes]

Always go for the Bar/HoN first because advanced reps are detrimental to keeping a base alive with less repairers.

I liked how you didn't include that it is much easier to camp a beacon with vehicles compared to infantry.

Doesn't matter, infantry team still has access to APCs, so its a plus for both teams

[yosh56]

Kinda been a thing since 2002. You always kill Bar 1St...Camping with infantry + refills can stalemate any game. I mean, unless the team with just infantry is deaf blind and dumb.

However I don't think making the sniper available is really a solution...as that hinges on said team having a decent sniper to even have an impact.

[boxes]

Bad or not, having snipers available will make a huge difference as to how you play. Right now, as soon as you get rid of the infantry building, you can freely roam the field. You don't have any fear of your head randomly falling off and you don't have any real threat besides vehicles, which are obviously your main target. Marksmen are not good because of kevlar infantry and ramjets one-shotting them. The biggest problem is that there's literally nothing to stop any T3 infantry in particular. All T1 and free infantry get completely demolished, APCs get owned by peek-shooting and by Mobius/Mendoza, don't even think about buggys/humvees. After a great deal of effort, you finally kill a Raveshaw, only to discover the amount of points you get for that is less than 1/2 a medium tank.

Another solution is to bump up the vehicle limits by 3 on every map. Having more in vehicle rushes of course can make a huge difference, and won't be as easy to stop with just 5 PICs with AT mines and emps.

[vandal33]

Instead of giving snipers, I think we should buff both team's Marksmen. I mean teams with no barracks or hand of nod is forced to deal with anti-infantry vehicles with only basic AT soldiers. Make both Marksman Rifle more powerful against flak jackets would be nice.

Making APCs 1500 sounds good or anything else that keeps APC less for teams with no vehicle production building. I always wanted to see them relying on buggies/hum-vees more than APCs.

Just my thoughts.

[Kaiser739]

Why are Humvees/Buggies/APCs even purchasable after WF/Airstrip is down? Remove the airdrops and there will be less stalemates. I would even go as far as to say even T1 units should not be available to buy after Bar/HoN is destroyed. Yes, comebacks will be harder, but it will teach people to actually care about their buildings in the first place.

[Ryz]

Personally I am fine with how it now is. Problem is that BAR vs HON requires more teamwork and that's something which is very hard to accomplish.

More worse to me is when one side has lost the BAR / HON and the team which still has all the buildings can win. Instead of working on that, people tend to go sniping which is good at first to pick off special units, but when they are down some people prefer the sniping and their k/d more than anything else. Thus resulting in one team locked up in base and one team not having enough force to attack... Those are the worst stalemates if you ask me. One team can win, but doesn't care about winning anymore... Seen this a lot lately, guess ppl trying to gain 'heroic' status?

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Renegade is, and should always be a tank game first.

playing AOW Vs. an infantry only team? Your silly choice to fight advanced infantry with advanced infantry, you're only giving them points by dying yourself, instead of scraping little bits off their health with cheaper or free infantry. Is the enemy team using Railguns only? then ignore the field entirely and bait them into the tunnels with free infantry rushes, to rush the field with enough heavy armour and engineers, and camp each tunnel entrance 24/7 with a MRLS/Arty. Remember that your team has a Harvester advantage, and that a 2.5 credit tick requires your enemy to wait 250 seconds before they can buy a 1k character.

Running out of time? put a heavy-armoured tank at each tunnel entrance, preferably an Arty or Mammoth tank and rush the field until you grow completely sick of it. Donate a teammember all you have, and make him the dedicated vehicle buyer, making sure there are spare vehicles to pick up whenever yours gets destroyed and you die. Speed is imporant here, so make sure you put as much pressure on the enemy as you can. Once again, your team has the harvester advantage, the enemy will run out of money someday. You could even make the harvester lead the attack, soaking up the first bits of damage while you rush.

Playing Marathon? Then it is more important to destroy the enemy team morally than economically. Don't like this? Then don't play Marathon, it's that simple. Once they're morally exhausted, susprise them with a full-scale attack and watch their defences wilter.

Yes, destroying the enemy vehicle factory always leads to horrible stalemates, but this is where morals come to play. Psychological warfare works, make the enemy think there is no way out, control every base entrance for as long as you can, giving you the opportunity to launch well-timed attacks.

[voltex]

I like the idea of increasing vehicle limits, it would be nice when after spamming get vehicles for 20mins and people actually buy them their not all destroyed in 3 seconds, it would also greatly increase field control as with current limits max vehicles in the field feels pretty week, especially on a large map like eyes, it would also increase the need for people to buy vehicles to retake the field.

Also would it be possible to lower the vehicle limit when vehicle production is offline, that way people can still have their apc's, just not as many?

[Quinc3y]

Aside from the obvious and very much needed increase of vehicle limits, a quick solution would be to increase vehicles' damage vs. infantry. Especially those of guns like med's or arty's. This would make driving a lot more comfortable.

[SvN91]

is it possible to make vehicles upgradeable? like purchasing an MG for your med as anti infantry weapon. I'm thinking of something like a capturable techcenter.

[Schmitzenbergh]

is it possible to make vehicles upgradeable? like purchasing an MG for your med as anti infantry weapon. I'm thinking of something like a capturable techcenter.

I smell a Chop Shop tech building Or a Pimp my Tank tech building

[MrSeriousOak]

is it possible to make vehicles upgradeable? like purchasing an MG for your med as anti infantry weapon. I'm thinking of something like a capturable techcenter.

ALL WHO OPPOSE THE MAMMOTH BUGGY SHALL CRUMBLE BEFORE ITS DUEL CANNONS ON WHEELS

[boxes]

I was thinking maybe the APC/Buggy/Humvee need a rework of some sorts. Perhaps decreasing their damage to both light and heavy (same air damage) and decreasing their spread and increasing their ammo capacity ought to make it a lot easier to deal with infantry, but less so against tanks. 

[Agent]

Yeah, further vehicle specialization would be quite nice.

[Sire]

I like APCs as they currently are. However, I am up for changing up the Humvee and Buggy to be more specialized against infantry. This way Humvees and Buggys may get more usage outside of initial rushes and the occasional flaming vehicle.

I like to think APCs is the "general purpose, vehicle machine gun", while the lighter scouts are like "Vehicle Officers", if that makes sense. So, APC = Laser Chain Gunner while Buggy / Humvee = Officer.

[Valor]

In old Ren at least, the Airstrip/WF should always win because of APC whoring, to a certain point where servers would actual discourage against it. Having been on the Bar/Hon side many times, it's very discouraging to just stay in the base with a Mob/Syd and try to fend off endless tank rushes. Not to mention it's stupidly hard to attack a base with just infantry, especially when there are base defenses.

In a marathon it's pretty much game over for infantry side, in AOW the infantry could still win by points if they can successfully prevent arty/mrls whoring.

[vandal33]

I think making infantry (especially 1000 characters and flak jackets) less resistant to vehicle machine guns is a good start.

[Madkill40]

On 9/9/2016 at 0:27 AM, Agent said:

Yeah, further vehicle specialization would be quite nice.

Get some Empire Mod tech-trees going with Commander mod. Yeeeeaaaaaaaa

But in all seriousness, upgrades for the passenger would be nice.

 

I want to be able to do drivebys with Buggys/Humvees and APCs. (and maybe also transport helicopters) 

[yosh56]

Quote

 

Was already thinking vehicle machine guns should probably get minor buffs vs. Flak anyway. As of now the buggy and humvee are... pretty much just there to use as flaming vehicles. 

Vehicle machinge gun being for the Buggy/Humvee, the APC is already pretty good at being a more all-around unit that can engage pretty much anything you point at it. Hell, GDI can APC spam Nod to death and beat all but full mass Light tank if they really wanted to, but they don't. 

 

As for Vehicles vs. Infantry in OldRen.... it is the sole reason I basically stopped playing marathon. If the team with only infantry really wanted to, they could make themselves invincible with just mass PIC/Volt/Hotty

Also, APCs were more feared in OldRen thanks to not being able to sprint. Was actually far easier to just run infantry over than shoot them with the gun. Not to mention so many maps were flat that it was easy pickings with minimal cover. 

[boxes]

Would be nice if vehicle MGs ignore Kevlar penalties too.

[yosh56]

3 hours ago, CampinJeff said:

Would be nice if vehicle MGs ignore Kevlar penalties too.

Lowered the penalty for Humvees and Buggies already. 

[Madkill40]

Three Nod APCs can rip a Medium Tank to shreds. (Just ask Thommy )