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Patch 5.003 Preliminary change list


yosh56

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  • Totem Arts Staff

Patch will likely be out some time this week. Remember this is only preliminary so that you people know that we're still doing things. Some of this is subject to change based on what we feel, and maybe even feedback.

Additional Content

-------------------

Added CnC-Valley, by HappyConscript

Added CnC-TrainingYard, by Thommy

Added CnC-Eyes, by Dakuja

+Added a legitimate team surrender option to the vote menu (opt 3), so now it's actually up to the enemy team getting kill-whored, and kept afloat by the 2 people that love repairing a single structure, to decide whether the map should actually be over.

Bug Fixes

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-Fixed reload bug where manually reloading a vehicle multi weapon (Orca/Mammy/Apache) would cause the player to not be able to fire until the reload timer for the weapon with the longest reload time was finished. (Basically the no-fire bug for the Orca/Apache)

Not to be confused with the misfire bug, which still persists.

Map Changes

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Lakeside:

+Added trees along the newly added blocking volumes to make it obvious that you cannot pass through. This way invisible walls are "justified".

Islands:

+Fixed, a way to get on the arch

Mesa II:

+.... it's playable again. Um, yay?

Balance

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-Tiberium Flechette Rifle - Reduce mag size to 35 - Uses a similar recoil spread model as the autorifle so to not be pin point accurate through out the magazine - Reduced range from 5000 units to 3600

-AirCraft now have a variable to distinguish them from light armor, and certain weapons now damage aircraft more than they will light armor

+The Missile Launcher/SAM/AA Turret/LCG/Chaingun/Vehicle Machine-guns (Buggy/Humvee/APC)/ Gunner's rocket launcher, the Volt Rifle, the laser rifle, and ALL tank shells now have a damage bonus vs. aircraft. The Wolverine and TS Buggy also have a modifier vs. Aircraft armor. [This way aircraft go back to being glass cannons when rushing... and actual AA units can be clarified]

-The Tiberian Sun Buggy now does reduced damage to heavy armor and buildings. It does slightly less to light armor, however it does have a damage modifier vs. aircraft.

-Chinook's health increased from 400 to 500

Misc

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- Fixed mesa map image in the ini file. Added valley map ini file

-All maps will now have their own ini settings -map list in frontend will now sorted alphabetically (This appears to only be Client-Side, so servers will still need to waste their time setting MineLimits)

-"Kick" and "KickBan" RCON commands now properly kick bots.

-Added "Rotation" RCON command.

-PT Icons are now dynamic and renders from the content packages.

-Rx_VehicleManager: * Harvesters no longer spawn if no Refinery exists. Rx_Controller: * Fixed an annoying "Accessed None" warning when using a radio command while dead.

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Building Armour:

Added a building armour percentage option to the DefaultRenegadeX config file. The percentage of a building's health that IS NOT armour can not be repaired. Once armour is completely broken through, the building begins taking irrepairable damage.

Used to slightly increase the effects of long-term seige, and not completely negate a rush that almost kills a building because 3 or 4 AFK Technicians happened to be in it.

Setting this to 0 makes buildings behave as normal.

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  • Totem Arts Staff

Finally the TibSidearm Nerf thank God!

Whats about Lakeside fixes? Around Nod Cliff Side with the wierd BlockingVolume?

The reload bug is the most annoying Bug in this Game at the Date, soon comes the heal against these curses!

I'm also pretty proud that my Map CnC-Eyes goes Official *cheer* Hopefully after that Patch the Feedback will be way more to find Bugs,Glitches and Balance Problems.

Nice to see there still working hard on this Game to fixing bugs and balance the Gameplay.

Keep it up the great Work!

Greez. DaKuja

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was hoping for CNC CoastalSmall, oh well lol

Nothing is final, maybe lobby with Yosh to get it in? I think the more new maps, the better!

BTW: Isn't kenz 'tutorial' map ready to be published? Update will be fairly large, but new content always boosts the playerbase :)

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Mesa II:

+.... it's playable again. Um, yay?

Great job on this one, but have you really stooped to the level that an official has to bash another official's work on an official forum thread that many people read? Grow a pair, please. *sarcastic thumbs up*

Building Armour:

Added a building armour percentage option to the DefaultRenegadeX config file. The percentage of a building's health that IS NOT armour can not be repaired. Once armour is completely broken through, the building begins taking irrepairable damage.

Awesome! Could i ask though, who exactly worked on this change? I recall multiple people working on this.

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Mesa II:

+.... it's playable again. Um, yay?

Great job on this one, but have you really stooped to the level that an official has to bash another official's work on an official forum thread that many people read? Grow a pair, please. *sarcastic thumbs up*

Building Armour:

Added a building armour percentage option to the DefaultRenegadeX config file. The percentage of a building's health that IS NOT armour can not be repaired. Once armour is completely broken through, the building begins taking irrepairable damage.

Awesome! Could i ask though, who exactly worked on this change? I recall multiple people working on this.

Mesa has been bad since original. Now in Ren X it likes to crash clients too. I wasn't too heartbroken about Mesa being gone especially if we're picking up 3 new maps.

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Mesa has been bad since original. Now in Ren X it likes to crash clients too. I wasn't too heartbroken about Mesa being gone especially if we're picking up 3 new maps.

No offense on what i'm going to say next, allright. I just want to make an impression.

According to the quote above you said that Mesa II had a tendancy to crash the game, which is correct and should be avoided. My direct response to the announcement that it will be fixed (not removed from the rotation!) in the next patch is:

Great job on this one,

This part was pretty positive, right? That part had absolutely no sarcasm intended. Remember, Mesa II is not disappearing, okay!

So, what's your detailed, well-defined opinion on Mesa? Bad? Perfectly fine with me. Everyone is entitled to have their own opinion! However i'm of the opinion that if people can't provide any sort of detail to their opinion, good or bad, they should be shown one from a neutral perspective so they can learn something from it. Maybe yours is perfectly detailed but you haven't shown it yet. But for now, you haven't, so please read my following quote from another topic:

I don't think the current maps are plain bad or need severe changes, as everyone likes diffrent stuff and has their own skill sets that suit diffrent people better. And yeah, i know, i do get off track sometimes to the point it's hard to see that it's relevant but i try to make people look at things from a diffrent perspective, in this case: It's sometimes better to stop and think 'Am i doing the right thing?', rather than blaming the map. In the case of 'old' Mesa, especially in C&C Renegade, bridge control is key in controlling the entire map. Most if not all vehicles in the Tiberian tunnel would be vulnerable, snipers at the infantry only route can be assaulted with heavy armour and it's a major checkpoint towards the side route of the enemy base. Off course, it's difficult to access and even more difficult to maintain, but the route was so under-used at times that people sometimes forget it exists, which is exactly what made it so powerful.

Now, I'm not implying that all maps are automatically good. This is not a magical world where everything is perfect, that's why i'm a beta tester and that's why i'm making this post. Take a look at what i said immediately after:

I'm not denying that some maps need improvement, in fact, i think some part of the level geometry actually need an overhaul. Take a look at Under, the infantry route is so well covered by ground elevations, obstacles and trees that you are pretty much invisible to vehicles. This does need to change. But aside from this and other minor things, the map design is just fine.

I don't think Mesa II is an amazing map for me as i'm making it look right now. Some maps only work for me when i'm in the mood for them. I acknowledge this. But... please tell me what of your following comment still stands:

Mesa has been bad since original. Now in Ren X it likes to crash clients too. I wasn't too heartbroken about Mesa being gone especially if we're picking up 3 new maps.

Please tell me, no sarcasm intended! If there is something i said that is genuinely incorrect, I would love to hear about it so i can learn from it next time. I hope you learned something from this. including you, yosh.

Now please call me Spoony for being a circlejerk.

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@xD_ERROR_xD: Even with mesa being playable again, it still (most likely) has a rare crash that caused all the clients to disconnect randomly. Has existed for a long time which has given mesa a bad name. Besides that mesa has always been a like it or hate it map kind of. Lots of people disliked the original and the current.

Besides that, the original mesa wasn't bad. It had it's problems, but they were fixable. I still liked the map. I haven't played the new mesa enough to really comment that much to be honest. People still avoided choosing it and then yoshi broke it.

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Building Armour:

Added a building armour percentage option to the DefaultRenegadeX config file. The percentage of a building's health that IS NOT armour can not be repaired. Once armour is completely broken through, the building begins taking irrepairable damage.

Awesome! Could i ask though, who exactly worked on this change? I recall multiple people working on this.

Ive done all the coding for it. So if there are bugs with it you are welcome to blame me. BroTranquilty had the original idea and wanted to make a mutator for it but this wasent possible with just a mutator so i picked up the idea and integrated it into the main game cause i believe in its potential. I do not really have time and motivation to spend substantial time with Ren-X anymore but this idea sounded too promising to me so i took the time to just do it. Now im waiting if people will either just not get it, trashtalk it, ignore it or if it actually might have been worth it to work on it.

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@xD_ERROR_xD: Even with mesa being playable again, it still (most likely) has a rare crash that caused all the clients to disconnect randomly. Has existed for a long time which has given mesa a bad name. Besides that mesa has always been a like it or hate it map kind of. Lots of people disliked the original and the current.

Besides that, the original mesa wasn't bad. It had it's problems, but they were fixable. I still liked the map. I haven't played the new mesa enough to really comment that much to be honest. People still avoided choosing it and then yoshi broke it.

I liked Mesa II. On that note, it has minor bugs visually and design wise. Other than that, it has a FAIRLY COMMON yet ILLUSIVE crash for all clients. It is fairly common, happens 2 matches out of 3. Same one happens every 1 out of 5 gold rush maps. It isn't rare in Mesa, just illusive.

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New maps is always good! Thanks to the people that are working on them.

I'm still hoping for Hourglass in release one day. hah

I'm not sure if the Flechette nerf isn't too much. I'd keep the current size and go down with the distance to 3000, to make it more infantry/CQC-heavy. That's always how I understood it anyway.

As I said earlier already, I think the buildings armor idea is a very good one!

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  • Totem Arts Staff

@xD: Take a joke. Also Mesa II has always been regarded as the least voted for map in RenX. Hell... when I first announced over IRC that it was broken in 5002, I had 3 immediate posts saying that nobody cared and that Mesa sucked anyway o.O. That's not even me bashing it... that was just the initial response.

I don't think the author of Mesa II is all that concerned with people's opinions of it, since it's not like the original idea for Mesa was his idea. The changes may have been, but still I'm pretty sure he can accept that at least ONE map is going to be the least liked... and he's got others to fall back on.

tl;dr: It's a joke on the God honest truth: Mesa was always the least played map.

So if there are bugs with it you are welcome to blame me

Will do.

-----

@iTweek: I don't know about releasing another build. We may do that if we need to fix the installer. Right now I think more people have issues with the download links than anything. Besides, I always release a manual patch for everyone along with the one on the launcher.

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I'll do it with permission. I'd only really slightly lower terrain on the nod overwatch path (the obby wouldn't cover it front on anymore but most importantly it wouldn't be like old field ledges), move the opening to GDI base more open and straight (to allow for a narrow line of sight for arty to fire on WF from gdi bunker), and maybe provide more cover for someone using the WF infantry path.

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@xD: Take a joke. Also Mesa II has always been regarded as the least voted for map in RenX. Hell... when I first announced over IRC that it was broken in 5002, I had 3 immediate posts saying that nobody cared and that Mesa sucked anyway o.O. That's not even me bashing it... that was just the initial response.

I don't think the author of Mesa II is all that concerned with people's opinions of it, since it's not like the original idea for Mesa was his idea. The changes may have been, but still I'm pretty sure he can accept that at least ONE map is going to be the least liked... and he's got others to fall back on.

tl;dr: It's a joke on the God honest truth: Mesa was always the least played map.

I don't mind Mesa II being the least favourite map out there, and I don't care if what you said is a joke or not. I can take a lot of jokes. But that's irrelevant here.

Listen. You have been promoted to the position of an official developer, which is awesome and completely deserved! Off course that allows you to make jokes, make funny intro's, but! As an official developer, you are representing the Totem Arts team, and with that comes responsibilities. You can have fun no problem, that's part of the job! But think about it, an official just bashed his own content, in this case it's rather small but if a journalist reads it, he's going to notice, report and the community is going to feel it because if a handful of new people will no longer try out the game because they read a twisted article based on a single comment. Or not, but show some rrsponsibility and some respect. You might have read some RockPaperShotgun articles back in the day, by the way, to see that it's not all entirely positive.

As an official, i just want you to take certain responsibilites. And you are! But you've also shown to act out in quite a nasty way, which i would have laughed about if you were not an official.

Just show that you care and that you can, allright, even if i'm the only one to complain about it. Because what i just said did make sense, at least to me it did.

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TBH, this game has been blessed, with official developers who run a clean looking front, and still are unofficial enough to drink on the job and tell you how it is (Like RypeL not being coy about his lack of interest, which makes it more encouraging that here he is selflessly making our dreams come true anyway)

At the end of the day, it is a fan project after all. And Yosh is most cooperative with doing a lot of bulk processing work as well as detailed work, demeanour or not he is sort of a viable use to everyone.

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also, a little request. Can you add a registry value that stores the installation path? This will help out on custom map pack installer

Is the "RenXPath" variable in "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Totem Arts\" not a thing anymore? It's in my registry, but it could be from an old install ("InstalledVersion" in my registry still says "Open Beta 4", after all), so can someone please confirm/deny this?

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Any plans on changing Under to give Nod an actual chance to win?

I have played 2 matches of Under recently where Nod wins, due to Thommy rushing Powerplant and blowing the shit out of it : D

I think Under is great the way it is : )

With Mesa 2 on the other hand, Its great and would be a shame to go, plus every time I ever get to play mesa online it doesn't crash, but it rarely gets voted : (

But.. To be brutally Honest, I prefer the original mesa from back in the day on C&C Renegade, that was great fun and one of the best like Under, Hourglass, City, Glacier - we need more classics : )

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GDI oppurtunites on Under:

1. Able to sneak in Strip/Hon with smoke through hill

2. Able to rush OB with smoke through tunnel

3. Able to hit Ref/Strip from outside the base

4. Able to line up meds, mammys, and MRLS behind the rocks near WF to easily gun down vehicle rushes

5. The whole map is built to suit GDI tanks

6. Able to sneak into PP/Hon through back

7. Infantry hill/pipeline in GDI base has PLENTY of cover for snipers/patch/etc compared to Nod's little metal platform

Nod opportunities:

1. Able to sneak into PP/ref though back

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  • Totem Arts Staff

I'll just edit this.

GDI oppurtunites on Under:

1. Able to sneak in Strip/Hon with smoke through hill. Don't think you even need smoke to get in the strip

2. Able to rush OB with smoke through tunnel

3. Able to hit Ref/Strip from outside the base AND one of the turrets

4. Able to line up meds, mammys, and MRLS behind the rocks near WF to easily gun down vehicle rushes

5. The whole map is built to suit GDI tanks There definitely is a distinct lack of any sharp turns for Flame Tanks to have an advantage, but the elevation changes harm both teams equally.

6. Able to sneak into PP/Hon through back

7. Infantry hill/pipeline in GDI base has PLENTY of cover for snipers/patch/etc compared to Nod's little metal platform

8. GDI can walk through Nod's infantry path without ever incurring the wrath of the Obelisk

Nod opportunities:

1. Able to sneak into PP/ref though back

2. Stealth is pretty good on snow maps

3. Early-game advantage from being able to lock GDI in their base with Arts/Lights and pushing Flame tanks. Granted, Nod can't effectively hit any buildings though however, so they only get the position advantage.

I have played 2 matches of Under recently where Nod wins, due to Thommy rushing Powerplant and blowing the shit out of it : D

For the love of God, people: infiltrating is not rushing. You want to see a RUSH on the Powerplant on Under: I'll have that video up hopefully by tomorow.

On top of that, what you just said basically enforces Jeff's post with Nod having like one viable strategy on the entire map. Infiltration gets countered by one very boring/dedicated individual sitting by the tunnel in an APC anyway. If a team loses a building to infiltration, it's more of a play on their lack of paying attention (or someone got bored of camping).

Really failing to see how people want to make Ren out to be a game of straight teamwork, then turn around and yap about how the only wins for a team on a map are just one person rolling lone-wolf. Kinda' contradictory.

TL;DR : Under's about as imbalanced as it gets. GDI's always supposed to have BETTER infiltration options, since they don't have stealth, but Under gives them better/more options for EVERYTHING. Seriously, if you lose as GDI on Under... there is something very much wrong with your team.

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Yeah player under last week in 2 vs 2 (turned out one vs two with the enemy) and I had to watch so many spots in order to defend, while they would just know where to find me as soon as the AGT started shooting. Please also note that something looks changed with the AGT. I am pretty sure I was able to get in the PP without making the AGT shoot and without smoke, but that doesn't work anymore.

Fuhtermore we had a map last week where 30 people played. Nod did like 50 attack attempts to get in and all got countered pretty easily. GDI did NOTHING untill Nod players started to leave cause you couldn't even get your vehicle outside your base. Than GDI did one rush and they just won. I think only one building survived. But the team camping and not taking initiatieve was rewareded with a victory and the team which did it's utmost to make something out of the map lost. For the end of the game a lot more Nod players left cause they just couldn't stand it....

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also nod has inf advantage over GDI but the tunnels are eeeeeeeeeeh...........lets just say,not suitble for inf battles.

also usually sneaking out stanks work perfectly to kill repairs and maybe get enough of them to do an actual rush on the AGT while GDI is busy camping the front,however it is not possible at for them to get out at all,maybe try to make the enterance more suitble for that ?

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Under... is indeed not balanced when it comes to sneaking. However, the amount of routes into the enemy base has barely changed since the original, in fact, it even was worse back in the day to certain extent.

This is how sneaking as GDI should go:

2:18 - 2:35 is relevant here

I am now forced to trigger the obelisk not once, but three times, while standing blatantly in the open, ready to get shot. It's really difficult, but the reward for succeeding is indeed very high. Mines would make my work even more difficult, combined with the fact that they are not only harder to trigger behind a wall, but also deal more damage than in the original. But don't forget, GDI has been given another route to sneak in the enemy base, that's to the Airstrip, so that kind of counters the mining issue.

If you think Nod would be in a bad position in Renegade X, look at how they were doing in the original:

10:58 - 11:19

That's right, sneaking as Nod in the original was... impossible. But, i was still able to take out many buildings as Nod in a solo mission, that was by sneaking in with a Stealth tank. I don't have video footage of that, but it consisted of waiting like 10 minutes in the tiberium field until the GDI base was pretty much empty. I would drive in their base, taking fire but parking at the AGT, repairing my Stank to full, then driving to the WF, C4ing it and blast the Refinery with my vehicle. However, because of the next issue...:

6:36 - 6:54

The blind spot on advanced base defences have been made so small, I would have faced the risk of getting shot, even when parking my vehicle right next to the AGT/obby. The only point that stands is harvy walking, but i don't have enough experience of that in RenX to say that's still a viable option.

My final suggestion: Bring back the wall covering the right entrance of the Nod Power Plant, and increase the blind spot on advanced base defences.

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My final suggestion: Bring back the wall covering the right entrance of the Nod Power Plant, and increase the blind spot on advanced base defences.

That part is already really easy to get into.

Unfortunately some Nods still mine the cave entrance, which is utterly useless, and not the area around the stone on the way to the PP.

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Super-Kh":ldanighc]also nod has inf advantage over GDI but the tunnels are eeeeeeeeeeh...........lets just say,not suitble for inf battles.

also usually sneaking out stanks work perfectly to kill repairs and maybe get enough of them to do an actual rush on the AGT while GDI is busy camping the front,however it is not possible at for them to get out at all,maybe try to make the enterance more suitble for that ?

I remember them rushes back on Jelly and Matrix Servers, Nods boxed in but with some great coordination Nod can pull of a great win in 1 stank rush while the rest defend, it was possible by yourself as long as you were patient and used the repairing tactic at AGT, thats one thing that should come back for Nods Sake, Bigger entrance for stanks to leave base (Or whatever allows that)

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  • Totem Arts Staff
also, a little request. Can you add a registry value that stores the installation path? This will help out on custom map pack installer

Is the "RenXPath" variable in "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Totem Arts\" not a thing anymore? It's in my registry, but it could be from an old install ("InstalledVersion" in my registry still says "Open Beta 4", after all), so can someone please confirm/deny this?

Curiously "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Totem Arts\" directory is not even in the registry. I searched on the Local Machine section as well and found no Totem Arts directory.

Do note that I upgraded from Beta 4 as well

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  • Totem Arts Staff

Added to main change-log:

+Added a legitimate team surrender option to the vote menu (opt 3).

+Added the Volt Rifle and Laser Rifle to list of units with Aircraft damage modifiers.

+Buffed SAM Sites and AA Towers, since they were the most specialized towers, and sucked at their job TREMENDOUSLY. Both rockets together only scored 40 damage on an Orca.

Also patch got delayed temporarily since we found something kinda' sort of major right before it was about to get green-lit. It's fixed already, but still caused a delay.

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I want fixed shotting things, like silenced pistol can get out of ammo but it still says there is ammo, fixed ammo disappering for example in sniper rifle you shot but you only wasted ammo (especially in mammoth and its so annoying) and nothing happend. Also make chems less strong, its cheap and too op.

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So maybe now that you nerfed the flichette rifle you can fix sidearms not having infinite ammo?

Why do you keep talking about it as if it's a bug?

As far as I know, none of the devs ever called this balancing a bug.

Well it IS a hard bug to fix, I mean, IF we figure out how to make a weapon's ammo not run out, we would obviously fix that bug with primaries too. And c4.

/sarcasm. Of course the ammo isn't meant to be infinite on purchased sidearms. One good idea WOULD be to have an empty sidearm revert to pistol, but the negative is repurchase instead of refill. Or, a lot of programming to make it return your weapon, which if your memory serves, has not always worked for proxy c4.

Besides that, the littlest downside to a purchase sidearm, is the chance to run completely out of ammo and be defenseless without a single ability to inflict damage left. It would be very rare to ever happen, and can be fixed by refilling at base long before, but it is in fact a vague possibility.

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  • Totem Arts Staff

Whaaaat. My map will be added in the next patch. Awesome (I never thought my map would be added in a patch). Now this is what I call Hardcore.

And yosh,

You can make for the 3 new maps (Eyes, Valley and TrainingYard) an .ini file so the maps will be added to the Skirmish menu.

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