Squad Mechanic

[NodSaibot]

Teamwork and coordination are arguably the most OP things in RenX. Allowing easier methods of teamwork and allowing players to coordinate easier should create a better player experience. (This is a mutator for AllNoobs)

There are a lot of different avenues a squad system could go down, which is why I'm turning to you guys to see what you think could work best. The current features of the squad system are:

• command-based system for joining, inviting and leaving squads
• squad exclusive text channel (pink chat)
• waypoint that appears over each squad member like the commander icon that indicates the commanders position (blue waypoint)

The name of your squad is automatically determined from a list of all alphabet characters. The name of your squad appears everywhere that your name is displayed, which is probably something that isn't necessary, but the current implementation is the quickest, it can be changed later.

Some things I was thinking about include stuff like a HUD element displaying the names of squad members, their nearest spotting location and current HP/unit. That could be toggleable by a button similar to the K scoreboard. Other ideas include voice chat for your squad, but to me the idea is quite far-fetched and I doubt it could be pulled off, but it's on the wishlist.

What do you think is the best way to go about this? Does it even sound worth finishing and implementing? Please let me know.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Sarie

[yosh56]

So there are already functions written for a squad system lying around in Rx_Controller / Rx_Game. It just proved to not be worth the effort considering teamwork in Ren is more about mass pushes, and people just congregating at choke points. Just doesn't fit the game flow. 

[Demigan]

I think there are two types of teamwork available in RenX. Long-term, which is based on getting a mass rush together, and short-term where players who are nearby each other want to stick together for a moment.

Long-term could have a vote-in option. For example if the commander asks for a RocketRush the players could press a button to say they are in, which puts them in a similar squad and makes everyone more visible to each other.

Short-term could simply be based on proximity and actively joining. Actively joining would be friends or trusted players who you want to stick with that you can have join in a squad so its easier to find each other again and stick with each other. Proximity-based squads would simply show the nearest X players and put them in your squad so you have an easier time seeing and communicating with them. But if one of their number dies or goes out of range they are removed from the squad so you aren't relaying information to someone who isn't even there anymore (until they return that is). This does mean that player has a different proximity-based squad depending on where they are in relation to each other. This gives the best of both worlds. People who stay in squad through death will actively join each other, impromptu squads would rely on proximity-based tactics but have no problem if one of their number dies.

[Suspiria]

6 hours ago, Sarie said:

• command-based system for joining, inviting and leaving squads

+ Client toggleable option: Auto-join/exit commander's squad while (not) in xx ft. proximity of commander for >yy seconds.

Enabled by default, this may subtly attract players to commanders due to a sense of belonging.
And puts that tiny bit of social pressure on commanders to actually lead.

4 hours ago, Sarie said:

• squad exclusive text channel (pink chat)

As a defender worth my salt I also need to know what & when our attackers are doing.
And as a mid-fielder, especially if radio's would also be rerouted, I'd want to monitor ALL channels for the same reason.

So if you mean "exclusive" beyond color here, then this could easily backfire on teamplay and thus needs to be carefully thought-out.

7 hours ago, Sarie said:

Other ideas include voice chat for your squad

Giving squads their own comms, especially voice chat channels, may end up feeling like "splitting up the group" again.
There would no longer be that populated feel where one's plugged into everything that happens across the map, socially speaking.

You will miss things.
Cheerful screaming, funny moments, rages....

Which would you rather have:
"Ooh you weren't on? Everyone sang happy birthday for Sarah on <other server> last night! She was elated!"
  -VS-
This apparently having happened right under your nose on the same server but you weren't in that channel so you'll still feel like an outsider while you were actually right there playing with them. (They were in your team for Christ's sake.)

I know which poison I'd pick.

7 hours ago, Sarie said:

What do you think is the best way to go about this? Does it even sound worth finishing and implementing? Please let me know.

Consider the commander-proximity auto-join/exit after yy seconds idea to get a feel for how it would be.
If that proves successful, you'll know at that point how far you want to take this.

That, is my recommendation.

DISCLAIMER: I make mistakes like everybody else so my recommendations may or may not be useful.

[NodSaibot]

1 hour ago, DugeHick said:

Giving squads their own comms, especially voice chat channels, may end up feeling like "splitting up the group" again.
There would no longer be that populated feel where one's plugged into everything that happens across the map, socially speaking.

You will miss things.
Cheerful screaming, funny moments, rages....

Which would you rather have:
"Ooh you weren't on? Everyone sang happy birthday for Sarah on <other server> last night! She was elated!"
  -VS-
This apparently having happened right under your nose on the same server but you weren't in that channel so you'll still feel like an outsider while you were actually right there playing with them. (They were in your team for Christ's sake.)

I know which poison I'd pick.

Possibly 32 people on voice chat... disorganized screaming and yelling.. imagine pug voicechat but 10x worse. I don't want team-wide voice chat.

[kira]

yes, defintily yes.
i think we already disscued the idea (remmeber captain role? sub commander?) 

different divisions: 

-Tunnel Team 

-Field Team

-Base Team

each has tag name just like you demonstrated and different colors (also viewed on map on different colors) 
and has its own credits bank for each division. for each division there will be sub commander with limited powers but additioanl chat for his division notifications. 
when looking at the map, you can see the different colors related to different divisions memmbers (also gps to the different commanders ) 

it could help keep in check in more orginized way,  and also notify the whole team if there is incoming rush.
prime commander can send chat message to all the division commanders, can assign new memmbers to each division (and also the division commander himself) 

btw for the picking division memmbers and commanders , less voting, and more simple way like commands or pointing at player togther with key combination. so it would be more easily approch and not wasting game time by picking people.

maybe prime commander would be even able to draw a circle on the ground, and who ever touch it, become that division memmber (depends on the color of the drawn circle) 

 

i strongly into that idea, but it sounds be rough to do.

[Suspiria]

6 hours ago, Sarie said:

Possibly 32 people on voice chat... disorganized screaming and yelling.. imagine pug voicechat but 10x worse. I don't want team-wide voice chat.

That's true.

[euan-missile]

Some solid ideas in this thread, I think it's worth noting that the purpose of our squad mechanic is to allow long-term organisation into an otherwise short-term game.

The one critical factor you will find in any long-running match is that they have relatively good team cohesion and coordination on both ends, hence the stalemates and prolonged warfare. On the contrary, the shorter matches having less so and often steamroll. However, it is entirely possible (as demonstrated by other major titles like battlefield) that an unorganised player whom can be the difference in ren between a steamroll, stalemate and victory, will feel less inclined to play one-man-army when there is a better gameplay experience available elsewhere. You just have to incentivize it within a small group.

Battlefield lured otherwise disorganised players into squads with the use of their "spawn on me" system across the squad leader, which was a very useful and powerful mechanic and on some maps in the franchise was the difference between winning and losing - It also indirectly caused the squad to work together, as they were almost always with their leader. (Even if they had no prior intention of working as a part of the group) 

 

So, the current idea with our squad system will follow a similar formula. A very useful mechanic that comes naturally from being within a squad that also causes people to work together (even indirectly)   

That "key" mechanic the squad should offer is still under construction, initially the core idea was a voice-chat system within the squads + the ability for the commander to vc with the squads. That however, is a looking like a glorified pipe dream. But as it stands being in a squad will still yield small basic benefits such as boosted points, VP and money for following squad leader orders. 

But a lot of this is on paper, and not really tested or polished to a degree that I can say anything with concrete certainty. 

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by euan-missile

[iridesence]

On 3/16/2020 at 12:49 AM, yosh56 said:

It just proved to not be worth the effort considering teamwork in Ren is more about mass pushes, and people just congregating at choke points. Just doesn't fit the game flow. 

this.

doesnt feel like it would be worth it to do.  esp in public matches where people just wont give a damn, and with maps being small enough as it is(with the exception of like 2 or 3) not like its hard to gather people in places.

 

Tha said, if people wont listen to the current commander system in place what makes you think they will listen to someone with a different color.  and if that text chat is somehow hidden in some way away from other members of the team, then its already hurting the team since people will be unaware of possible plans that might have otherwise joined on a whim.

[NodSaibot]

10 minutes ago, iridesence said:

this.

doesnt feel like it would be worth it to do.  esp in public matches where people just wont give a damn, and with maps being small enough as it is(with the exception of like 2 or 3) not like its hard to gather people in places.

 

Tha said, if people wont listen to the current commander system in place what makes you think they will listen to someone with a different color.  and if that text chat is somehow hidden in some way away from other members of the team, then its already hurting the team since people will be unaware of possible plans that might have otherwise joined on a whim.

I think you guys are really missing the point. Ideally this system would just be used by people who already play together or for people who are learning the game and are playing with someone. There is no auto match system, people only join from getting invited and accepting the invite, it should be used with people who intend to play together or coordinate. Squads are a catalyst for allowing easier coordination for people who aren't pro.

[Mystic~]

This sounds good, I also agree that its an advanced feature and only likely to be used by serious players, coloured text is fine, voice would be a bonus but only if squads are small. Would be useful if there were squad-leaders and they could call in things like smoke airstrikes at least. I think this would enhance team play and make expectations clearer, but normally, certain players have good intuition for their role and how they can be most useful, but as someone else said, this normally only happens when you find yourself with another at the right time or an opportune moment.

It's very useful mainly for organisation, but it doesn't need to become so complex or complicated that it's too much work to produce or implement.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Mystic~

[Movoza]

On 3/16/2020 at 4:08 AM, Sarie said:

Teamwork and coordination are arguably the most OP things in RenX. Allowing easier methods of teamwork and allowing players to coordinate easier should create a better player experience. (This is a mutator for AllNoobs)

There are a lot of different avenues a squad system could go down, which is why I'm turning to you guys to see what you think could work best. The current features of the squad system are:

• command-based system for joining, inviting and leaving squads
• squad exclusive text channel (pink chat)
• waypoint that appears over each squad member like the commander icon that indicates the commanders position (blue waypoint)

The name of your squad is automatically determined from a list of all alphabet characters. The name of your squad appears everywhere that your name is displayed, which is probably something that isn't necessary, but the current implementation is the quickest, it can be changed later.

Some things I was thinking about include stuff like a HUD element displaying the names of squad members, their nearest spotting location and current HP/unit. That could be toggleable by a button similar to the K scoreboard. Other ideas include voice chat for your squad, but to me the idea is quite far-fetched and I doubt it could be pulled off, but it's on the wishlist.

What do you think is the best way to go about this? Does it even sound worth finishing and implementing? Please let me know.

If they are on Discord, automatically assign them to a shared channel. When pushing an extra key, they are talking to everyone on their faction.

It'll also be a better social glue for people joining. They can immediately be trained and guided if they don't know anything about the game. Finally, have a squad dedicated to the solo players. Even though it might be discouraged, sometimes you just want to faff about. It's still a game.

[isupreme]

Would it work to simply allow players to purchase into a squad type?

i.e.   If i want to be in a field squad i buy into that, get some little thing that helps in that purpose and off i go..  

[Mystic~]

A Team. Couldn't resist.

 

[Suspiria]

On 3/19/2020 at 4:47 PM, Sarie said:

I think you guys are really missing the point. Ideally this system would just be used by people who already play together or for people who are learning the game and are playing with someone. There is no auto match system, people only join from getting invited and accepting the invite, it should be used with people who intend to play together or coordinate. Squads are a catalyst for allowing easier coordination for people who aren't pro.

Yeah I definately am missing your point.
Thought we were here to do a lil brainstorming on a Squad Mechanic.