Ghostscythe Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) (100% inspired by Madkill's Gameplay and Ritual thread) Specialization. What is the goal? The idea is to encourage players to explore the game, and specialize in a particular role during a single game. This makes you more reliable and therefore a better teammate (esp if you're newer or not inclined to work with others) Example specializations: Mining / Defending Support(ing vehicles/infantry) Tanker Aircraft What is NOT the goal? Make your character/vehicle crazy good (it's about stealthily making people better teammates without them knowing) Purchasable weapons Purchasable vehicles Replacing VP system (should be complementary to VP, because we're rewarding specialization NOT experience) ----------------------------------------- What is the reward? An unlock. Specialization with your actions lets you purchase upgrades with a pro and con. How long does the specialization last? One life (or if it's a vehicle specialization, the life of your vehicle) What are these specializations? They are upgrades which have both a pro, and a con. For example: Miner / Defense Speed upgrade in base Con: you have slightly less health Faster repair speed Con: you get no prox Better armor against C4 Con: you are slightly slower Tanker Faster turret turning Con: slower vehicle turn Faster vehicle base turning Con: slower turret turn Faster projectile velocity Con: less damage More damage Con: slower projectiles Aircraft Anti-infantry specialization Pro: Vastly improved armor against railguns, snipers Con: You get no missiles Faster vertical / side-to-side movement Con: slower max speed Longer missile range Con: Lower damage FAQ Q: Can I have more than one specialization at a time? A: No, but you can swap them. If you swap, you lose 50% of your experience in the old specialization Q: Is every specialization available for every vehicle/char? A: ...Maybe? Balancing might be interesting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thoughts? Edited January 30, 2020 by Ghostscythe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostscythe Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 You could also say "let people swap specializations whenever" ...that is a valid argument. If it was done that way, perhaps your specialization gets XP as you use it, and you can choose (based on your experience) how far the pros/cons go (always increasing equally) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Arts Staff Madkill40 Posted January 30, 2020 Totem Arts Staff Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) I wouldn't mind task ability modifiers - as in a passive task done increases a stat with how fast, how much etc. [faster planting of mines, carrying extra ammo, a bit of extra armour on a vehicle] Based on X frequent stat accomplished (weapon-related kills, vehicle-related damage/heal/kills or item-related kills/affects) But each reset once/if promoted, to then relearn the same or different stat bonuses i.e. Specializations Base specialization on stats earned during gameplay? Breaking away from the "time spent in X", a more specific to character-stat boost which comes across more plausible as the game already and nicely registers specific-type kills - which makes for a better basis indeedz Can't have people who do nothing earning something - experience through specialization whilst Recruit / Veteran / Elite / Heroic. , multiple before promotion is possible though should be difficult to achieve under Recruit/Veteran, Elite potentially 3 depending on specialization-task. Character specific, seeing as the game has classes - free infantry would be easier to earn potentially. e.g. Hotwire/Technician -: Sprint for longer [repair base stat] / Speed of deploying C4 [Kills with C4, (Remote, Timed, Proximity)] BHS/Dead-Eye -: Sprint for longer [11 kill combo] / Additional ammunition [23 kills] Global: More ammunition for Reptool [healing friendlies] Global: Additional strike [Airstrike effectiveness/kills] [GDI- 1 extra jet, Nod- 3 extra shots] LCG/Gunner -: Extra Armour [Vehicle kills] / Extra AT Mine deployment [Vehicle kills with AT mines] / LCG-specific: Faster reload [17 Infantry kills] Gunner-specific: Additional Ammunition for Rocket Launcher [Building Damage] Additionally, you'd only obtain them once per rank, as in a player can't stack them by getting 17 infantry kills repeatedly and have godly reload with the LCG. Once promoted due to the global stat increase you lose your specialization, you can earn it again or decide to switch to other specializations, shrugged off a burden in some cases. Carrying over a specialization from recruit to veteran to elite and then to heroic, even without stacking, could breed horrible formulas breaking the game or the opposite. Really depends on the specialization bonus. Something earned is valued and enjoyed more than deciding on what to pick, newbies don't know what to do but there's a chance they'll specialize based on their passive in-game activities. (Whereas more seasoned players can share knowledge of specialization and/or finally get summin' for their existing most passive task) 2 hours ago, Ghostscythe said: specialization NOT experience This seems like one of them oxymorons... Edited January 30, 2020 by Madkill40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tytonium Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I like it, and also like the idea that is be for only one life, and they should be expensive. At the moment during matches truly the one thing that any player has a goal for would be to vp whore and win. A little boring so I think having purchasable mini perks like this could spice things up a little more and encourage trying out new playstyles. Maybe you could add infantry/vehicle specific perks. Like for syd and rav maybe the railgun takes a lot more time to charge up but the range is greatly increased. Or maybe for the buggy you could neuter the turret and make it way weaker in exchange for a boost ability. If you want to have this work in conjunction with the veterancy system, what if you were only allowed to gain access to one inf or one vehicle's alternative mini-perks EACH time you ranked up. That way one person can only have access to up to three characters or vehicles sets of perks and is made to play around those characters/vehs during a single match if they reached heroic. Would make things funner I bet. You could have a round centered around anti-tank with gunner, meds, and sydneys. Then on another round you could try out the perks for Hotty, humvees, and APCs. Just one thing to be careful of, you need to be absolutely careful when balancing any perk that could upgrade damage. 2 hours ago, Ghostscythe said: Tanker More damage Con: slower projectiles This would be horrifying if an artillery gained access to this ability and then just spammed at a building for an hour and managed to vp whore himself into another dimension. But the overall idea is pretty cool and should be though about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostscythe Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) That's interesting making it permanent like you're suggesting; honestly I like the sound of that. Re: balance you're right - and some of these perks might have to be disabled or toned down for certain vehicles/characters. (maybe little icons on/near the perk that shows which are banned) ---- @Madkill, I think some of those more general ideas could work well with this. For specializing characters/vehicles, imo a lot of times it will make the people who already hate them, have less fun. If we can kill two birds with one stone, I'm all for it. Just trying to keep the primary focus on roles like defense/support etc Edited January 30, 2020 by Ghostscythe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isupreme Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) Could Vastly increase Player voice in the game. Could greatly increase teamwork. ~~~~~~~~~~ Player voice: The things that players can do in the game that express the will to win. Edited January 30, 2020 by isupreme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIHIHI Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 This is an interesting topic... Sounds like it could be kinda neat... I do like the idea of permanent perks gained with VP... Nearly everyone will always get one in a match, many will get two, and some long games would even make it three for almost everyone... Definitely is a way to increase player voice... Although it would have to be implemented in a very user-friendly way for sure. Increasing player voice while making sure not to make the game too complex seems like the way to go for me. Perhaps a notification on rank up ("Press [key] to open the perks menu") and then a screen comes up where you can choose a perk from one of the categories... Seems simple enough... Just take care not to overwhelm people and you're good... It would definitely take some balancing... But as the CQC mod has shown, even fairly drastic balance changes can be integrated into the game and work well in a relatively short time period (!rec Yosh on that... Had to have been a lot of work; thank you). 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlink Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I think this is a really neat idea that could be great with further refinement.I think HIHIHI's post above mine hits on a lot of really good points. Some opinions of my own: 1. I much prefer the idea of the perks being permanent(for the round) rather than tied to a single life. If tied to a single life it would both punish newer players and encourage farming kills over playing the objective. Spending 1000 on a inf and immediately dieing already feels pretty bad, imagine if you finally get that perk you've wanted for 5 minutes and immediately get sniped. My idea for how to handle this would be credits spent on a purchase give you points towards unlocking a perk for that class/vehicle/(even items?), points are also earned as you play as that class/vehicle. When enough points are accrued you can spend the to get a perk improving an aspect of that class/vehicle for the rest of the round. 2. The pro-con idea is really appealing but it works against the overall concept in this case. If perks are expensive and hard to earn it may not feel worthwhile to get them if they come with a trade off. Pro-cons would work well if it was like a load-out you picked at the start of the match but that strays away from the core design of Ren-X. 3. I would avoid perks that directly effect dps or max HP as they will be particular hard to balance likely either feeling worthless or a must pick option invalidating the other choices. This also begins to intrude on the purpose of VP which you laid out as something to be avoided. All that said the core concepts laid out here sound pretty cool and I'd love to playtest any implementation of this idea someone throws together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostscythe Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 9:56 AM, Highlink said: I think this is a really neat idea that could be great with further refinement.I think HIHIHI's post above mine hits on a lot of really good points. Some opinions of my own: 1. I much prefer the idea of the perks being permanent(for the round) rather than tied to a single life. If tied to a single life it would both punish newer players and encourage farming kills over playing the objective. Spending 1000 on a inf and immediately dieing already feels pretty bad, imagine if you finally get that perk you've wanted for 5 minutes and immediately get sniped. My idea for how to handle this would be credits spent on a purchase give you points towards unlocking a perk for that class/vehicle/(even items?), points are also earned as you play as that class/vehicle. When enough points are accrued you can spend the to get a perk improving an aspect of that class/vehicle for the rest of the round. 2. The pro-con idea is really appealing but it works against the overall concept in this case. If perks are expensive and hard to earn it may not feel worthwhile to get them if they come with a trade off. Pro-cons would work well if it was like a load-out you picked at the start of the match but that strays away from the core design of Ren-X. 3. I would avoid perks that directly effect dps or max HP as they will be particular hard to balance likely either feeling worthless or a must pick option invalidating the other choices. This also begins to intrude on the purpose of VP which you laid out as something to be avoided. All that said the core concepts laid out here sound pretty cool and I'd love to playtest any implementation of this idea someone throws together. I really like your idea of credits spent on chars/vechs etc giving you points towards the perks. Wouldn't want it to be the _only_ way, - that's cool though. The cons don't have to be huge - just enough to make the pro not overpowered. 100% agree @ dps / HP being dangerous to buff - ideally the perks should be centered around encouraging certain tactics / strategies. @HIHIHI Good point about the necessity for it to be user-friendly - that'd be key. Thanks for the feedback y'all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Arts Staff Madkill40 Posted February 6, 2020 Totem Arts Staff Share Posted February 6, 2020 User friendly you could have these earned based on points gained doing particular task(s) - depending on the task(s) this decides which specialization you earn, as a way to reward the player for what they've been doing, earning a specialization teaches the player that what they've been doing has been beneficial/appropriate. Rep points = rep-based specialization Kills = ammo-based specialization Veh kills/dmg = veh-based specialization Etc. And depending on how far you go on the programming end, it'd be doable to base kills on specific weapon types (grenade, bullet, rocket, mine) to enable a more specific specialization This primarily encourages players to stick to a class/role to achieve such specializations. Perhaps just rep-points/supporting roles should have specializations - to encourage players helping their team mates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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