Team Vehicle Crates

[Mystic~]

We played Islands this evening and very quickly Nod seemed to have a Mammoth tank, I think this was before even anybody on our side could even afford 1500 to buy one so I think it arrived in a crate. Nod essentially kept this repaired with 4-5 techs throughout the game as we struggled to push out onto the field many times. I think a gift horse like this breaks the game mechanics, it would be like someone on GDI being gifted a Stealth tank on a map like Lakeside. I don't have a problem with the other side stealing a vehicle, but is it possible to limit crates to only vehicles of the same faction? What are others thoughts?

I remember one PUG game of Complex where Nod managed to do exactly the same thing and then camped the high plateau with a Mammoth and won and after this I think we decided to disable the crates here. Some public games can be just as competitive as the PUG if not more at times and this was super frustrating, especially considering we surrendered without any building loses on Field just to move the game on after an hour of play.

[isupreme]

It does feel like too much too soon when it goes like that.      Lately  I wonder about the game's ability to be too much too soon.

Early crates dont have vehicles?  Early crates only have  your team vehicles?

Edited November 9, 2019 by isupreme
hmm...

[NodSaibot]

Might be best to just change the server config make the vehicle crates only appear after 10mins or later into the game. The default currently is 4 minutes.

[Mystic~]

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Might be best to just change the server config make the vehicle crates only appear after 10mins or later into the game. The default currently is 4 minutes.

Thanks for your input, is that down to something individual server owners would need to agree to change or is it something that can be developed enforced?

I would still probably be annoyed at GDI getting a stealth tank or Nod getting a mammoth tank mid-game, which is why I suggest limiting a vehicle crate to either neutral or your own faction's vehicle choices only as it feels wrong to give the enemy team the advantage of your own factions unique strengths, even if it's random.

[Handepsilon]

Vehicle crate availability is something the server owner is responsible for. Just like your SystemSettings (lol sorry) tho,  we can pretty much change the default of their settings from our end with update

That needs discussion first tho. 

[Mystic~]

I think this is something that affects the integrity of the game rather than it being a server side setting to mess about with.

[ex_member]

It is the same with GDI getting an SBH spy. It is a game changer that ignores many mechanics put in place to provide balance.

But, at the same time it is a factor that provides new strategies and more teamwork.

Edited November 12, 2019 by ex_member

[Fffreak9999]

55 minutes ago, ex_member said:

It is the same with GDI getting an SBH spy. It is a game changer that ignores many mechanics put in place to provide balance.

But, at the same time it is a factor that provides new strategies and more teamwork.

To be honest, I would like to change the SBH completely, the use of them is either extremely overbearing or extremely useless.

Overbearing when no base defenses are in place (GTs/AGT/Turrets) as they end up with free reign of GDI's base.

Useless in nearly all other cases, since all they tend to do is sit around and do very little.

 

I would replace the spy crate to only give SBH Units (to both GDI and Nod).

Then either keep SBH purchasable or remove the ability to buy them and give Nod a different unit, which would be rather unpopular, but would remove a lot of camping style of nature that Nod tends to do with the SBH.

[MajesticSausage]

2 hours ago, Fffreak9999 said:

To be honest, I would like to change the SBH completely, the use of them is either extremely overbearing or extremely useless.

Overbearing when no base defenses are in place (GTs/AGT/Turrets) as they end up with free reign of GDI's base.

Useless in nearly all other cases, since all they tend to do is sit around and do very little.

 

I would replace the spy crate to only give SBH Units (to both GDI and Nod).

Then either keep SBH purchasable or remove the ability to buy them and give Nod a different unit, which would be rather unpopular, but would remove a lot of camping style of nature that Nod tends to do with the SBH.

I (mostly) agree with you but I find that people really aren't using them to their full capabilities. To me the problem with SBH is that people think they are super weapons, there's a mentality that the SBH is only for "le epic infiltration" and that unless you can solo the barracks with one you just have to keep waiting around.

They work more consistently as ambushers and saboteurs (especially with CQC). In the field their anti-sniper role is great and picking off a column of GDI tank repairs has a huge benefit to the team. With a repair tool they can keep a dominant GDI frantically running around trying to stay on top of their tech buildings and groups of SBH make good anti-tank ambushers.

For me if I was retooling the SBH I would look to nudge them more towards that saboteur role and away from the infiltrator (I agree spies would be a better fit there) I'd maybe remove the timed C4 and give them a timed EMP or something that can be placed strategically, maybe give them a radar grenade that acts as a smaller scale spy plane. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by MajesticSausage

[Mystic~]

If I remember the spy in Red Alert correctly, it started off neutral but could take on the character form of anybody it came across by targeting it and changing Uniform like a Chameleon; this sounds a bit more tactically useful than just getting a random grenadier or something. We don't seem to get spy hot wires or techs anymore?

I wouldn't change the SBH much, I'm not sure about their silenced uzi-pistol, but some sort of melee ninja take down might be more appropriate for anyone really being idle or typing too much.

[HIHIHI]

Spy Hotwires and Technicians are simply too OP. Not only can they walk past any defenses unharmed, they can also very quickly demine and destroy a building with their Advanced Repair Guns and 4 C4 charges. And if the opposing team doesn't notice or can't find the missing mines, they have no chance to save a building once the fireworks start. No other spy can take a building from full health to destroyed in that amount of time. MOST will give the enemy a chance to react. A heroic Mendoza or Mobius will get close, and be almost impossible to stop, but then, they don't have an Advanced Repair Gun (just a Repair Tool at most). And a spy Hotwire or Technician can do this at any rank.

As to choosing your spy class (even from the array of units you can see), it takes away from the randomness that crates are supposed to have, and also makes spy crates closer to being OP (since you could potentially choose any unit the enemy had at that point - who would choose a spy Shotgunner when a spy Mendoza or Raveshaw was available?).

I like SBHs too, but then I'm just a generally anti-change kind of guy. You just have to get me used to an idea. : )

[TomUjain]

I know CT did try to try and replace the SBH with two new classes, I remember admiring the idea at the time - always happy to see new creative ideas, but from what I understand the plan fell pretty flat, I don't know the details.

The SBH is a popular unit, taking it out would (as freak said) ruffle the bee hive. Also as Freak pointed out, when GDI has no base defence a well executed SBH rush is, in my view - one of the most deadly rushes in nods arsenal. They make excellent scouts and the perfect sniper killer; one of the ONLY decent sniper counter aside from -- another sniper or a marksman, let us also not forget they can farm crates pretty easily. That being said; a lot of players use them very poorly which can hamper team efforts.

I think it would be a shame to throw the unit away, and the best way to move forward is to take the rough with the smooth.

 

 

[roweboat]

Stealth Blank Hand units are surely worth their own discussion. 

Always gotta remember the big picture. SBH does not equal (!=) Command and Conquer mode. 

 

As far as vehicle crates are now, I have no problem with them. The random unbalancing they can add to a match always helps keep it interesting

[Guest once upon the time]

If I'm not mistaken, there's an indication that someone got a spycrate (was definitely in the old betas so)
Furthermore, you can quite easily (I think red font instead of green) recognize.
The only real dangerous Spy is the SBH for GDI, because its a  SBH.
In the meantime, 64 players are playing around on a map, so if someone is paying attention, it's even harder for a spy to get through (there are still enough players in his own base as Defense)
Also do not know why a SBH should disappear from the game, because as they get closer they are easily visible. A good defender knows the spots where the SBH's on the maps hide with preference.
Unfortunately, it seems that today some still use the SBH quite useless, but the character SBH can not do anything for.
All spy characters except spy SBH are easy to spot, and if you have a normal aim (not like me, bad) turn it off.
Hottie and tech are no exception for me.

[Mystic~]

If a neutral spy character cloned a tech or hot-wire I don't think it should come with all the C4 - maybe a default repair gun that looks real, but is counterfeit fake. I think the unit should be geared towards enemy spying, stealing a dropped/built vehicle, sabotage, assassination and maybe beacon placement. Maybe other units also have their character guns deal less damage. If the enemy team lost their hon/bar then it would make more sense under the new way a spy crate worked to only pick low tier infantry else stand out as obviously an enemy infiltrator/intruder.

Vehicle crate unpredictability is interesting, but not giving Nod a mammoth tank within 5 minutes of the game.

I don't think SBH should disappear from the game, but I've spoken about the idea of a stealth detection cp ability before to prevent the irritating need for people to constantly base scan and randomly fire everywhere, which spoils being able to use sbh in my opinion for the opposing side.

[Handepsilon]

I'm pretty sure engineer-based spy crate has been removed a long time ago

[roweboat]

Engineer spies are rare but I still see them from time to time.

[MajesticSausage]

Yeap they are still in there.

What about base infiltration that isn't centred around destroying buildings? Infiltrators become rewarding classes to play and helpful to the team without being absolute in terms of risk/reward.

For instance. An infiltrator that successfully infiltrates a WF can "hack" a purchase terminal which makes a GDI vehicle available to build at the air-stip for a short time. This could be randomised or maybe the infiltrator could select the desired vehicle but the more powerful it is the longer the hack takes (a mammoth taking far longer than an humvee)

Hacking the power plant temporarily disables base defences.

Hacking the ref halves income for the enemy team for a short while.

Hacking the barracks is similar to the WF hack but for infantry.

It'd be great if when an infiltrator is hacking it is announced to their team that the hack is under way, giving them a chance to react to incoming change. "Hacking the powerplant, base defences going dark.......hack successful!"

I feel the above could encourage communication and cooperation between the team mates, make infiltrator classes fun and useful to play without being all or nothing and could maybe help mix up stalemates a little.

Edited November 14, 2019 by MajesticSausage

[isupreme]

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Hacking the ref halves income for the enemy team for a short while.

If i do the hack i want the cash!!       I kinda like the idea of infiltration having other objectives.     could b fun...

[Mystic~]

I really like the terminal hacking idea, maybe an extra terminal in that corner everyone likes to hide behind in the refinery, if you captured a refinery or enemy silo in the RTS with engineers you also stole the credits equal to the amount of tiberium the building held, so maybe you steal half of everybody's credits. A new infiltrator unit based sounds both fun and useful to play.