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about teamstack.


Reivax
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Hi ūüėÄ

First, i want ask to you to be nice and respectful, i know it's a hot and conflict subject in our community
Second, i know i'm not god, it's only my opinion due to my experience, and if i post that it's to explains why i'm thinking what i'm thinking and to know what other players think :)
Third, my english is broken - i'm not from english-speak country, so don't except sometimes my sentences will not be rightly wrote. sorry for that

I've began to play Renegade X.. uh.. 2 years ago with some friends in a cnc community of my country, because Renegade X is a fun c&c game - how to chill after intense C&C3 games on Redzone Rampage ūüė謆but i've really enjoyed to play Renegade X, and i've began to play more seriously. it was my first shooter game ( i'm usually a rts games player ) it means my skill was close to absolutely the worst ever seen in Renegade X haha :D¬†but i've learned how to play, gameplay, tactics, tricks, etc.. i was really happy to play because win or lose wasn't important for me -¬†only learning to play was good.

when my learning was finished, i've began to play as sniper after a sniper fight on Reservoir dam against Snips ( thx Snips ;) it was one of my favourite moments in all my Ren X games ) i've meet my first frustrations, like SBH haha :D i've meet poi and often.. *caugh* always be killed by him, but i was learning how to snipe, so i've not take care about my KD. when my aim was sufficient, i've began to watch how poi plays ; i've tried to play osu! - one of my worst game experience :D -  and follow him to repair and watch how he plays, his sniping locations, his tactics, etc.. when we was in opposite teams, i've tried to play with all i've learned - often without success, but sometimes i've killed him, i was really happy hahaha -

sometimes people complained about poi skill but because i was learning how to play with - and against - him, i've answered "feel free to learn how to play you too", maybe few of you will remembered my comments times ago

Nexus and me began to play together - it was really fun, we was playing as infantry, or sniper, or tanks, not really care about what we do, only what's the more fun on which map - but in games with few players, p.e. 10v10 we known we was too strong, and keep separated : p.e. i stayed in infantry paths and Nexus came on field with tank. when we was in opposite teams because matchmaking, we nearly always stay in opposite teams to fight


people complained about teamstacks of good players, but when poi and jpj was playing together, me and Nexus tried to stop them together ; we wasn't always successful but we done our best.

after my sniper time, i've began a infantry fighter time, and began to play as patch because patch was much better than atm ; he was really strong, it's why i've began to play with him because his tactical rifle compensated my lack of infantry fight skill. i've began to have my usual tactics like be Nod on Walls and camp in walls cave with doza to kill everyone who came :D  on Lakeside because infantry path wasn't interesting to close combat i've played as stealth tank to crush enemy infantry, destroy MRLS or Orca, finish damaged tanks, etc.. it was really successful and helped a lot my team - on 15v15 games, because 32v32 aren't good with stealth tank, too many enemy tanks and AT ppl - but on few maps i had absolutely not fun. p.e. a lot of you known inf path problem on Under : enemy tanks can camp infantry tunnel exit, especially mrls : easy way to farm kill and frustrating enemy infantry fighters. my aim was good this time ago and i was able to resist against most of good players - but not against the best players ofc -  but you can be sure about one thing : it's frustrating to be patch and meet the two best players of Renegade X playing together with mendozas.. we've tried to play with squad but in 25v25 games, it's hard to have 4 good infantry fighters who want play together against the two best players :D 

i've began to complain about teamstack because when two "casual" players done it, it's not really dangerous, but when the two best infantry fighters stay together.. you can nearly always be sure about which team will won, and a lot of players quit the game because they haven't a good time and leave to do other things and enjoy their free time - i understand em, i've not all my days for me and i want enjoy my free time, not be annoyed by unenjoying games


because hard playing for months i've increased my aim and reach good KD - on Islands i easily had 8+ KD, on Walls i had 10+ KD but i'd be salty by too many things - mrls campers, fight against too skilled players, etc.. and i've stopped to play as infantry because i've not anymore enjoying times.

i've began to play as tank, aim with tank is fun but AT infantry is really too strong - it was frustrating for me to be raped by AT infantry because few weeks before i'd can to place a entire patch load in their head. i've enjoyed to destroy enemy tanks, crush enemy engineers, use smart tactics to sneaky move behind enemy tanks and surprise 'em by crushing all their engi and stuck 'em in rocks to allows my teamates to destroy them easily, and teamstacks problem was solved for me.

i've tried to play PUG but because my name ( i was known as Aenarae ) peeps thinked i was still infantry player haha :D but i've stopped to play infantry one month before, and.. uh.. a 1v3 game in infantry path against three good infantry players turn me into a salty mountain and i've stopped to play ren x for nearly 3 months

i'm back on Renegade X - not as often as Nexus, he's definitively more implicated in Renegade X and it loves it so much - and i've already played few booooooring games

first was on Desolation - 3h game but server finally crashed to ended this -
second was on Desolation too - two players stacked together with similar names - i've not said their names but you know what i mean ūüėú¬†- after 2+ hours of loooong game server finally crashed to finish this shit - again ( thx to servers because if server doesn't crash Desolation could be 6+ hours )
i want explain that i've not really things against these two players - one is strong and is learning to second how to snipe, i've learned how to snipe too and i can't be worried about that - but be 1v2 when you've not played for 3 months.. urg. it hurts.
third game was on Under, a stack of three good players in same team was camping in different locations in the game - sometimes on Nod pipeline, sometines in Nod tunnels - but where they was, no GDI can survive more than 5 seconds. i was sniping on field to avoid 'em because my aim is bad now, but i absolutely understand why few players think teamstack is really bad.

now i'll repost one of my messages from discord because only Nexus reacted to it :
someone said that stacking is stupid, a skilled infantry fighter player reacted with "typical blabla"
i've said a thing he doesn't read, but i think it can entirely means the problem about teamstack.

stacking isn't good especially when stackers are best players
when nexus and me played together, sometimes we known we was too strong and decided to don't stay together
when we was in opposite teams, we stayed in opposite teams
i can understand ppl who want play together and stay stacked together but they know - they must know and they
already know - they kill fun for most players
've fun when i play but i've more fun when i play and if my enemies have fun too


but it seems few players have more fun by frustrating enemy team than be sure enemy players have fun too..
if these few players want keep be cancer for so many Ren X players, keep in mind that if Renegade X have so few players ( atm ), it's probably - mainly - because your fault. Be a new player and be killed 5 times every minutes will not be interesting to this newbie, and he will uninstall Renegade X as quickly he will come back to Fortnite :P 

oh, and a last thing : remember this poll https://renegade-x.com/forums/topic/76734-poll-frustration-in-renx/?ct=1573126928 results and comments are interesting to read :) 

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Guest once upon the time

No idea if you know Dinner for one, but there's a standard saying:


He: The same procedure as last year Miss Sophie?
She: Same procedure as every year, James.


Hope you can smile now. Some people never change.

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Hello, and welcome, you seem to be one of the sorts of people we're trying to attract with this game. I share your frustrations when it comes to stacked teams on the whole, but also more specifically when certain highly skilled players take efforts to pair up for the duration of the game. Getting killed multiple times in a row by the same people, particularly in a game where characters and weapons cost resources (time/credits/effort to capture a silo or defend a successful harvester) is really frustrating and often it's under the condition of being locked in base. Maps that have bottle necks and choke points really exacerbate this, often it's one vehicle path and one infantry path and the enemy is capable of camping these spots quite easily with high class infantry and once resources are depleted the opposing team can only get lower tier or free infantry to counter them. The maps that come to mind the most are Field, Under, X-Mountain but this happens on any map where these conditions are met. Special efforts were taken to remedy Field in the way of Field-X, but the same was not done for Under and we let the original remain in the map choices anyway.

On other games, you have an armoury area where you can choose a weapon to begin with, later upgrade or at times you pick them up on the battlefield or arena either at spawned locations or from enemy players, but the mechanics of Renegade-X are heavily based on the RTS game and so much be re-purchased each time along with the character class. I wonder what would happen if every character purchased granted an extra free re-spawn as that same class before needing to be re-purchased again - I'm not sure if this is innovative or game-breaking. It would nullify some of the frustrations of being instantly sniped down but might also make games last much longer and of course the opposing team would have precisely the same advantage unless some other sort of mechanic or variable comes into play.

The best games for me personally tend to be challenging and competitive but balanced enough that it's neither a team stomp against one side nor an equal stalemate lasting for hours.

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I know that particular game you are talking about me on Desolation. But I don't really think that's a team stacking issue. You guys had an equal amount of people fighting us, and most of the time we would win.

I did die many times, sometimes to my own mistakes, sometimes to outplays. But that's just how the game works. If 2 people stick around, it will be better. It's teamwork. Not only that, but skill differences are just a thing of the game.

Especially in smaller playercount games, it can become very apparent how strong some players are. I think this is more of a skill gap issue, in this particular instance.

Undeniably stacking/being on same team whether on purpose or not can create some very lopsided infantry battles, but that's the state of the game. Not having many people in the game, while having many veterans in the game will create very uneven battles for new/unexperienced players. I don't think that's really a problem we can fix, unfortunately. The balance changes made recently have HELPED to fix that, but there's no one way to fix the problem. If there was matchmaking along with a skill rating, and the playerbase to support that, it would work. But there would be other problems along with that, such as complaints about ranked points, smurfs and etc, the same problems other games with ranked modes suffer.

I understand the frustrations players have, I play other games and I am not as good in them. Getting killed by the same person over and over, in such a game as Call of Duty and others, it's very annoying. I can imagine it's more annoying in RenX, when you have to buy characters and etc

Edited by buttons
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Team stacking has always been a thing. I remember in the HazTeam community in the original Renegade the clan members would sometimes invade their public server and have a "HT vs all" match. Which was kinda stupid for a couple of reasons. One, it frustrated the regular players as they had little chance of winning. Two, it presented little challenge to the clan members so there was little chance of them actually improving and competing on the level of other clans. I remember one specific match on field where I basically led the "n00b" team (as it was often referred to) and we managed to hold them off for an hour or two before we lost, which I think was quite an achievement. Most matches ended swiftly, considering they all were on teamspeak when our team wasn't, and the skill level of the two teams was stark contrast.

In the PUGs I think the point should always be to establish balanced teams, those matches seem to be more for fun than for determining who is the better player (many here already know which handful are better than most). Public matches on the other hand are a bit random and players can switch teams if they wish (and someone else wants to trade places with them). If a tournament goes ahead (I started a thread on this here) I am kinda on the fence about whether or not the teams should be balanced as the point would be to find the best players - though I guess it depends on what players want else noobody would sign up.

End of the day you can do one of two things when you encounter team stacking. One, complain incessantly. Tap furiously at your keyboard hoping that somebody will sympathise with you (though even if someone does it won't change anything). Or two, look at your own performance and ask yourself what you could have done better in a particular situation. Develop quicker reactions and the ability to out-think your opponents, because in RenX just like in real life warfare, the element of surprise and misdirection are overpowered.

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@SilentKnight hahahaha :D  i don't know Dinner but thx for your hilarous commentary haha :D 
 

21 hours ago, Mystic~ said:

Getting killed multiple times in a row by the same people, particularly in a game where characters and weapons cost resources (time/credits/effort to capture a silo or defend a successful harvester) is really frustrating and often it's under the condition of being locked in base.


I wonder what would happen if every character purchased granted an extra free re-spawn as that same class before needing to be re-purchased again - I'm not sure if this is innovative or game-breaking. It would nullify some of the frustrations of being instantly sniped down but might also make games last much longer and of course the opposing team would have precisely the same advantage unless some other sort of mechanic or variable comes into play.

@Mystic~ thanks for your post :)  about the first point, i've no problems about be killed by the same player especially because i've.. developed a high sense to stay alive :D idc about be often killed by same player cuz i'll tend to try to hunt only him :) 

your idea about this mechanic looks interesting ;) probably it's a really good way to solve few problems about necessity to keep field to win - economic feature is the main way to win or lose a match. but i'll must say a thing, too many players don't care about wasting their money ; they'll buy 1k characters and run to battle without prudence and they will be killed by c4, mines or enemy ambushes
 

19 hours ago, buttons said:

I know that particular game you are talking about me on Desolation. But I don't really think that's a team stacking issue. You guys had an equal amount of people fighting us, and most of the time we would win.

I did die many times, sometimes to my own mistakes, sometimes to outplays. But that's just how the game works. If 2 people stick around, it will be better. It's teamwork. Not only that, but skill differences are just a thing of the game.

Especially in smaller playercount games, it can become very apparent how strong some players are. I think this is more of a skill gap issue, in this particular instance.




But there would be other problems along with that, such as complaints about ranked points, smurfs and etc, the same problems other games with ranked modes suffer.

I understand the frustrations players have, I play other games and I am not as good in them. Getting killed by the same person over and over, in such a game as Call of Duty and others, it's very annoying. I can imagine it's more annoying in RenX, when you have to buy characters and etc

@buttons thanks for your reply ;)   idk if you was working with your teammate only by text chat or by voice chat too, but all times i've tried to play with a player by text chat.. it wasn't really good :D i've played a loooot of matches with Nexus by voice chat, it's really more easy to stay together, say "sbh behind u !" or "sniper 300 meters on your right flank behind bunker" or "watch for these mines i'll disarm 'em"
on this desolation game we've tried to organize little squads but in 12v12 games it's hard to find a guy who wants play with another guy :D oh, and a skilled player too, cuz my aim is baaad but i want absolutely try to become better - recover my aim like last year.
i don't care about dead when it's 1v1 or 2v2 fights ; and tbh i've rarely but already won 1v3 games - have 3 boinks sounds in a row enjoyed me so haaard

sometimes i do mistakes, lack of recon or bad luck, it happens :D and bad luck happens really often for me, especially random c4 haha :D yesterday i've played on walls, we was 3 snipers on the top of hill, two times a sbh came to attack us, two times i was his choice.. whyyyy me ? :D  
i know i've a lack of skill, it's why i'm playing ; when i'm good on a game, i stop play it because i've not challenge :) when i've played sniper, it was to have challenge, but when i've achieved my objectives i've began to play infantry fighter
atm i'm bad in all ways, but be raped in 1v2 fights against 2 better players is a bit frustrating - my teamates was as good as me, and few of them don't cared about teamplay.
when Nexus and me played together, we had some fun to play together in 32v32 games, especially when 10 ppl was rushing and we was only 2 to counter them haha :D i still laugh when i remember this, because the challenge was to stay alive as long as possible haha


about smurfs, i don't understand what's fun.. i mean, if i want have easy kills, i kill bots :D if i want have challenge, i'll stay to play against players like me or a bit better skilled, but i keep in mind everyone don't have the same way to enjoy games

when you said "i can imagine it's more annoying in RenX, when you have to buy characters and etc" i'm thinking.. maybe the problem is the gameplay ? to play what we want we must keep our buildings alive ; but i'll give you example to explains what i want say because i've not english words for that :D
on Field X ( Field day, i can't remember if it's Field or Field X cuz my brain RAM is full ) if a player wants to play light tank, he will buy his light and go to field to enjoy his game. but, if airstrip is destroyed, he can't enjoy anymore his favourite gamestyle. now, we can think "he can defends airstrip" but where's fun to camp with tank in tunnel entrance ? a player can't do what he loves and defends the building who allows him to do what he loves.
oh and, about "your teamates can defend inf path", the first tip i've learned on RenX : NEVER trust in his teamates ūüėú¬†
 

16 hours ago, crazfulla said:

End of the day you can do one of two things when you encounter team stacking. One, complain incessantly. Tap furiously at your keyboard hoping that somebody will sympathise with you (though even if someone does it won't change anything). Or two, look at your own performance and ask yourself what you could have done better in a particular situation. Develop quicker reactions and the ability to out-think your opponents, because in RenX just like in real life warfare, the element of surprise and misdirection are overpowered.

@crazfulla hihi the first part of your message makes me hilarous :D i remember this meme with german boy hitting and destroying his keyboard :D 
about my own performance, i've began to fight against the best snipers in RenegadeX after learned game mechanics.. are u saying that a newbie must reach the same skill that players who play every day for 5 years ? keep in mind, a newbie wants discover game, not be raped 10 times in a row : if he finds the game boring, he will leave, uninstall, and come back on Fortnite ;) and he's right because he don't have reason to stay on RenegadeX wasting his time without any fun moments or interesting fights

about me or other skilled players bored by teamstack, i can only say, again and again :¬†teamstack must be smart, in 20v20 games 2 or 3 players can play together on discord voice chat if they're "casual". in 10v10 games you can be sure 2 players together can win a game.. quickly ūüėú¬† in 32v32 games, 3 players can play together, but if they're the best players in RenX.. it's good if these 3 players¬†enjoy their time but it's not good if their 32 enemies have a bad time
play with teamates requires (thinking) i've not word for this, i mean.. to keep in mind to have fun but not be too overpowered to keep to your enemies to still have a chance to beat you
oh, about quicker reactions, i'm probably really good because i'm 20, i like drink water ( sometimes vodka but uuuuh i don't play seriously when i'm drunk ) and listen speed¬†musics from osu! to stay alert and be faster than light ūüėú¬†
oh and about surprise and smart tactics.. my fav faction is Nod in all C&C games cuz fast and stealth units ( C&C 3 stealth tank best unit ever in multiplayer games ) and my ooold name in other c&c community was stealthman ;) 

@RypeL¬†thanks ‚̧ԳŹ¬†here you have a few ideas, maybe they can be interesting to work on if they're good :)¬†i had not objectives when i've posted it, it was only my feel after months and months to play ( i still remember when Forts was playable - good memories with these TS vehicles in the strange museum, it was.. 2 years ago ?¬†) but if players have ideas to helps to fix teamstack issue, it's good ;)


but tbh, i'll be honest : i think the best way to solve teamstack issue don't depends from devs or mods, it depends from ( pleeaaaaase don't be angry by what i'll say ) maturity of players. I think a lot of us aren't as young as fortnite playerbase, we're maybe enough mature to know to be nice when playing, have fun but be sure our enemies have a good time too - i remember enjoying lose games cuz epic defense or hard fights :)  if players who wants be together thinks about their power, if they can win but have a good challenge against enemy team while keep to your enemies a chance to win, Renegade X can only, and will be, better :) 

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Honestly, that stacking thing makes me bored of the game.. I still love it of course, it's probably my favourite game ever, but sometimes when i just want to forget my day and playing, i can't because i always get fucked by a group of powerfull players.. that's really frustrating ūüėď

I mean, i had a good aim level before, but for certain person that's need to play the game everyday to keep that level, and i don't necessary have the time for it, and that's the same thing for a lot of players

I tried to initiate 2 friends of mine on the game, and they leaved because it was impossible for them to play, they said something like : wtf is that cheater game

And i want to say that I don't attack anyone with that message, i just share my feeling.

Nexus.

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30 minutes ago, Reivax said:

i'll be honest : i think the best way to solve teamstack issue don't depends from devs or mods, it depends from ( pleeaaaaase don't be angry by what i'll say ) maturity of players.

The maturity of stackers, you meant.

 

30 minutes ago, Reivax said:

if players who wants be together thinks about their power, if they can win but have a good challenge against enemy team while keep to your enemies a chance to win, Renegade X can only, and will be, better

Agreed. Unfortunately, the notorious stackers have long forgot about the idea of "good challenge against enemy team" and "fair, competitive game", and "let's make Ren X better for everyone". They take too much pleasure from stomping their enemies to care about such. No hope there, I'm afraid.

Anyway, thank you for your honest post, Reivax.

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nah Quinc3y, i mean maturity of players, and my maturity too
i'm not ingame, it's why i can be comprehensive haha :D stackers are a problem, but ppl complaining about it every mins ingame are toxic - and sometimes i'm one of them, when i can't do anything because frustration i'll tend to complain in chat - i know it's a problem, it's why i prefer leave game than keep and be cancer ; but i want play to RenegadeX, and my PC is so fucking slooooow to launch game than i want not close RenX each bad game i'll play, probably because it's 1/4 games
in all ways if stackers can stop to have this toxic comportment, Renegade X games and community will be better :) 


i agree with you¬†about notorious stackers ; but trust me, one of them already tried to switch teams and play other stuffs than infantry to balance games :)¬†but i don't know if he's still doing it ;)¬†it was few months ago when ( FPI if i remember ) mods tried to switch players to balance game but a lot of players complained about that - especially because when you start a game in your favourite side but suddenly you're swapped in enemy side.. :(¬†p.e. i loved be gdi in Islands because patch in tunnels ‚̧ԳŹ¬†when i was Nod, doza is good for this work¬†but not as good as patch ( patch grenade was soooo op, i've often said it in public chat - 1/3 of my kills was due to grenade advantage¬†)

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Unfortunately, you can not change the mentality of certain players and have been for a long time. Interestingly, it is not at all felt by these players that they are absolutely fun killer for others. New players may make some games, and after that, Ren X will be uninstalled, no matter to them, because they want to play with their friends.
Some of them even see themselves in the "victim role", is just a point of view for themselves.
They also did not realize that it is a lot of fun to play together against each other, because you know the strengths of the one.
Well, every year (so twice a year) is always a topic, but it is a pity.

regards from James and Miss SophieūüėČ

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If each member in the Renegade community kept to using a single username like the PUGs maybe it would be possible to assign and denote some sort of "elite gamer" status and then some sort of team filtering system tries to balance equal numbers onto each side. i.e. Fun Player Name (real username in brackets) If each side had a fair balance of power I don't think it would matter so much if two very good friends/skilled players, played together, but most often I find that it hugely tips the success of one side in their favour.

I've been experimenting with !modrequest team stack - but there are limited amounts of mods and especially one's who are in a position to respond. 

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4 hours ago, Reivax said:

i agree with you¬†about notorious stackers ; but trust me, one of them already tried to switch teams and play other stuffs than infantry to balance games :)¬†but i don't know if he's still doing it ;)¬†it was few months ago when ( FPI if i remember ) mods tried to switch players to balance game but a lot of players complained about that - especially because when you start a game in your favourite side but suddenly you're swapped in enemy side.. :(¬†p.e. i loved be gdi in Islands because patch in tunnels ‚̧ԳŹ¬†when i was Nod, doza is good for this work¬†but not as good as patch ( patch grenade was soooo op, i've often said it in public chat - 1/3 of my kills was due to grenade advantage¬†)

Yes i did have a talk with Yumi and i decided to stop playing with my friends and swap against them, i stopped doing it because i was still being blamed for decent people swapping to my team. I remember even getting upset when @jpjtyld swapped by accident because i thought he was stacking with me. he later swapped back. I stopped caring about it because i got attacked countless times for something i did not do at the time and the people that were throwing personal attacks/ bullying me were not being punished for their actions. I do love the game otherwise i wouldn't be here since a closed beta tester.. but most people that complain about stacking often do it even when it's not stacked. some people expect me to swap everytime when a team is one sided i dont think anyone would like having to swap almost every single game. I hope there will be a fix for stacking soon. And i hope mods will enforce the rules more against toxicity. 

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Guest once upon the time

Please excuse me if I take this sentence as an example but it fits in very well with what I wrote before.

34 minutes ago, poi said:

Yes i did have a talk with Yumi and i decided to stop playing with my friends and swap against them

You still play with friends only in a different team. You can still have fun at the Discord.
I can definitely understand if you are constantly hostile and you are frustrated.
Each time the team change, I would have no desire to. ūüėČ
It is really just a very good example, which certainly applies to others.

I generally do not like people becoming toxic for a variety of reasons.

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@Mystic~ i'm not a good player but you haven't any idea how many names i've taken to play :D one of my specialites is to find different names each day :D actually i play as Aenarae or Jade, few months ago i was Aenastia or Ealane, i've been Aeldari Warrior, Reivax, as known as [MB]Reivax, Baharroth, Karandras, Asuryan and so many more names :D it's maybe a good idea but not using player's name, maybe steam profile linked to player is a better idea :)

@poi  in a way if you're frustrated to can't play with your friends i understand it
Renegade X is a game i love so much, if i can't play with one of my friends because we're too much good it will really frustrating me, especially because RenX is my most favourite game :) i think you're in a sad position, you can't enjoy your time by playing with your friends without annoy dozens of players

 

1 hour ago, poi said:

And i hope mods will enforce the rules more against toxicity. 

i agree ;) too many players complains about hax when they're killed - often by lack of experience or stupid decisions like to be free soldier run to a havoc in a straight line or standing engis complaining about snipers but they don't know how use AD keys :D  

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2 hours ago, poi said:

I stopped caring about it because i got attacked countless times for something i did not do at the time

that is normal, bcs people get used to repeat themselves.
Please consider this:
how many topics and discussions it took to get you and your "friends" decide  to rethink is it a time to stack or not, and you did not listen at the first one mentioning this.
It took a while before you agreed not to stack. Expecting people to get aware of this immediately, is not gonna work.
So poi, same for you as for anyone else, it takes time until people notice things and changes.

And of course, when you get stamped once with anything, it is much harder to change it.
As said, it is quite a normal reaction and something to expect.
Nevertheless, thank you for trying.
 

2 hours ago, poi said:

were throwing personal attacks/ bullying me were not being punished for their actions

Regarding this, I think the methodology used here is very often questionable. Some get punished for minor things where others are allowed to do what they want.
Unfair and annoying. Again, I think this depends to who is the target and who is in charge.
Unfortuantely, we do not measure everybody and everything with the same scale.

 

2 hours ago, poi said:

some people expect me to swap everytime when a team is one sided

No, you should not be a target nor responsible of caryying each game.

About stacking in general:
for everyone complaining about it, please consider that friends should play together, it is again a normal thing.

Regarding friends,
some tend to be "friend" with poi because it is an easy ride on her skill - easy play.
You could say, a mediocre player who stack with poi can easily be more effective in the game, thanks to her skill.

About responsibility,
devs should not stack teams over and over, not even under the excuse of "playing with friends".
Why?
Because you are responsible for this game and community, whereas jpj and other players are not.
 

Edited by ex_member
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I've said this before, and I will say it again -- regardless of how you want to phrase it, balance issues / stacking it is a serious problem. FPI did try and come at this issue a bit too heavy handed which was wrong, i'll admit - but the devs can't white wash this away as 'toxic' either.

I do want to point out that Poi has tried to change their image but (from what I can tell) gave up as the negative comments and gossip didn't go away.  I have tried to address this problem, but bringing down the ban hammer isn't a graceful or healthy way to fix it (if anything it will only make the problem worse) Arguments can also be made that if you change teams lawfully then you are doing nothing wrong - which to me is a design issue and where we need a solid team shuffle in place. I also want to point out that having 'good players' on your team does not always mean you are going to win -- however winning or not the other team will feel a sting and this is where (I feel) the fustrations seem to stem from.

Progress is slowly been made with such features as the 'CQC mod' and the (hopefully) new addition of the new team shuffle, FPI also has a 'team rebalance feature' where we / I will (fairly) and randomly shuffle teams at the start of the next round. So things ARE moving forward.

We have this huge rift of 'stackers' and 'no-stackers' regardless of what side of the fense you sit on no body wants to meet in the middle. The pro stackers refuse to see this as a problem and shift all the blame onto the other side while the anti-stackers scream and shout about how the stackers ruin the game. Its an age-old argument and until we can all come together and find middle ground on this issue; it will not go away.

Ramping up (or should I say forcing) server owners like CT and FPI to abide by developer rules about what we should and should not do is not only hugely disrespectful but also only widens the rift between us. It is not a wise way to 'gain control' and will not do any form of good to servers or the community as a whole, I will stake my life on that.

Devs do need to be more in tune with the community and be more open with what is going on. This them vs us mentaitly needs to go away, only then do I feel that issues like the 'stacking' issue will begin to go away.

Edited by TomUjain
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It will always be a problem as long as veteran players turn a blind eye to the problem. But I think most are understanding it is a real issue.

Shpetim and I are frequently on during what I'll call "North American" times, player counts tend to be a bit lower. And many times one or both of us can easily sway the flow of the match, so we've agreed a few months ago to switch to the side that needs help when we can. (or even avoid using such advantages such as commander powers.. although sometimes I just wanna cruise everything LOL)

 

It's not about winning, its about having a good time. Sometimes those are one in the same, other times, not so much.

Edited by roweboat
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2 hours ago, roweboat said:

 so we've agreed a few months ago to switch to the side that needs help when we can. (or even avoid using such advantages such as commander powers.. although sometimes I just wanna cruise everything LOL) It's not about winning, its about having a good time. Sometimes those are one in the same, other times, not so much.

I do the same, if the other team is struggling or has lower player numbers I will shift over to try and make up for it. Games tend to go smoother and are more fun that way. Unfortunatly the 'stackers' (if you want to call them that) don't see it that way, regardless if you are good / elite or just plain awful (like me) it is massively selfish to put your fun above everyone elses - and this (I think) is where this hostility is coming from.

A select group of players will only play with their select few, do or die -- and will refuse to play if they can't. Now i'm not trying to say people can't play with friends, but I do feel a bit of flexibility wouldn't be a bad thing. Playing 1 game apart and the next 99 games together is not 'flexable' I made it very clear from the start that FPI staff are not allowed to all stack to one team, and if we do it is lawful and only for special banter or fun.

Imagine if I was regually stacking with 10 other people all on discord voice chat and putting together fast / quick rushes - that would give us a huge advantage. I dare say the 'elite' players would take issue with that as well.

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Guest once upon the time

For years, most of the same players are team stacking and they do not care if the other players enjoy it.

Teamstacking can only end when those who change their mentality.

It is also really fun to play against "friends", because you also know their strengths and weaknesses.


In the past it was also unfortunately that some Devs and Mods have done plenty of stacking, if that is still the case today I do not know.


Skills are still different and there will never be a perfect balanced game.


In this case, one should not measure with two different measures, Stacking is for me an absolute No Go no matter who does it.


Greetings from James and Miss Sophie

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There is nothing more fun in this game than when each team has lost a building.

When you are on the losing team but still manage to somehow destroy a building through some ridiculous string of events that had no right working. As soon as this happens I know a real match is about to begin. Both teams suddenly start trying as hard as they can and commanders step up their game with more complicated rushes. It is no secret that the funnest games tend to be ones where the teams are balanced skill-wise and building-wise/option-wise.

Unfortunately I am seeing very little of these types of matches these days.

Give me some time and I can prove to the community that most matches are over in 5 minutes. I am doing some statistics that analyze just how likely it is to estimate which team will win at the 5-minute mark. I am at 67/100 matches. So just give me some more matches with a good player count and another month and we can all take a look at these stats.

Let me just say this, from the stats that I have gathered so far, it is very very evident that there is a problem. But more on that at a later time.

Edited by Tytonium
gram-er
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I just wanted to chime in. I think team stacking can be a real issue. But after a series of games last night  (some of which were well fought, others a push over) where every round ended with a deluge of moaning from a couple of people about stacking and "arrogance" I wanted to say.

Sometimes teams win because they played well, sometimes you lost because you were unlucky. Complaining every time you lose as though there is some grand conspiracy amongst elite players to ruin your day just makes for a toxic atmosphere and doesn't allow for any constructive discourse.

Edited by MajesticSausage
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honestly i don't care about win or lose if i've enjoyed game
i've played a Reservoir game, my team had been totally crushed by Nod team but i've enjoyed to play mobius and hunt these butterflies - oh, i mean SBH of course :D
i've played a Under game, my team was stucking enemy team in his base - i was GDI and GDI taken field, usual Under - but we was like 5 mobi in their tunnels. i'd not fun because not really challenge - anyway, server has crashed before end ^^ 
i've already played games my team won, but i've not enjoyed it - sometimes lack of luck, sometimes lack of skill by my teamates, i'm thinking about all these times where i'm low hp and techies totally don't care about me :D sometimes because map isn't fun - i like play as infantry, i talk about these maps without infantry paths ; Walls is a exception, i like hunt enemy sneaky snakes with mobius ;)  

but if i play a game where a team have a stack of players, in my team or in opposite team, i can't have fun if i haven't a bit of difficulty
i like have easy meat running like engineers when i'm playing mobius, but i prefer fight against mendoza - it's more challenging :) 
teamstack ruins it because a team will be stucked in his base without money and motivation to play, it makes me sad or bored - and in both cases, i prefer leave than lose my time without have fun
oh, about it : i prefer leave a game where i've not fun than stay and lose my time, once is because now i've not as many free time than months before, twice because i don't like do boring stuffs - if i want do boring stuffs, i've a job and i'm paid for that

when i leave because i don't enjoy game - i can don't enjoy game when my team is winning and i can enjoy a game when my team is losing - i don't call it a ragequit but a funquit ; i quit to have more fun by doing other stuffs :) 
again, as always, it's only my point of view ;) it's maybe wrong, feel free - and it's the reason why i'm writing that - to write what u think, your feels, etc.. :) 

EDIT : i can still quote examples : i've enjoyed a Walls match because i've played sniper and killed a few people, but i've lose the game. i've absolutely not enjoyed Field, first because i'm Nod and like usually Nod is stucked in his base, but too because when you want play sakura and you can't stay alive more than 1 minute ( remember you need to wait 5 minutes to have enough creds to buy sakura ) .. i've began to play arty because it's cheap, but i've not enjoyed it, and finally i left because i've lost 40 mins of my time without find interesting stuffs to do or enjoy some epic success or epic fails ( yea i love enjoy my epic fails :D ) 

Edited by Reivax
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  • 2 weeks later...

After playing for a while, I don't see the issue. Players accused of stacking were usually playing together. Isn't that the point of game?
It's when people go out on a limb and try to solo or don't move with the flow of the game, teamwork dissolves and teams lose. 

In any competitive game, there is almost always a bigger fish. I actually enjoy throwing myself at people that play together, I find it educational at times :D

How do you even identify stackers? It seems some players keep changing their names, it's hard to keep up with who is who exactly. 

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I think what's not immediately obvious, is there is a huge gap between player skill and knowledge.

 

Example: One team you have 3 players who have played for 5 years, who know all the quirks of a map, all the odd physics of the UDK, who know the exact attack stat of every gun, commence a joint attack. VS a team of relatively newer players (lets say they are willing to work together, but just dont understand the game to the same level) -  in that moment I feel that is a "stack" (its a negative term here), because the experienced players have an distinct unfair advantage far beyond "team coordination".

 

A real solution is somewhere between long time players doing what they can to educate new players on the game [because many of the problems are simply a lack of understanding of how the game even works...] and finding other ways to help new players quickly learn the gameplay and mechanics.

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8 minutes ago, roweboat said:

I think what's not immediately obvious, is there is a huge gap between player skill and knowledge.

 

Example: One team you have 3 players who have played for 5 years, who know all the quirks of a map, all the odd physics of the UDK, who know the exact attack stat of every gun, commence a joint attack. VS a team of relatively newer players (lets say they are willing to work together, but just dont understand the game to the same level) -  in that moment I feel that is a "stack" (its a negative term here), because the experienced players have an distinct unfair advantage far beyond "team coordination".

 

A real solution is somewhere between long time players doing what they can to educate new players on the game [because many of the problems are simply a lack of understanding of how the game even works...] and finding other ways to help new players quickly learn the gameplay and mechanics.

I concur, it's better to help new players understand the game. If people just shout at new players for randomly placing mines, they'll never be able to catch up or drop out entirely because "toxic community". We can't assume that new players know the game mechanics from the old Renegade, either. 
Not exactly a veteran player here, but I do enjoy helping new people. The more the merrier. 

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Guest once upon the time

absolutly right Atomsk, helping new player could be a lot of fun and monthes later for sure they are getting better. Shouting and claiming about or against new player isnt helpful.

Roweboat wise like everytimeūüėČ

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And I get it, in the heat of a big game. What's easier? Get frustrated that someone messed up either because ignorance or poor judgement.. or say hey, no big deal, next time do "this" instead...

I play fairly regularly myself, and honestly, sure not all of the people who play regularly seem to get along, but on the whole, they're all a good bunch of people.

 

And remember: the one certain thing in life is change ūüėÉ

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@MintLemonade I honestly don't know how much more we can 'push teamplay', at least via a game mechanic. To be honest, it was pretty darn clear that the game is supposed to be played with teamplay

I've pretty much weighed some questionable portion about the game, such as how infantries can more often than not  be more expensive than tanks (so true for Nod, whose vehicle armory cost 900 at most per vehicle) and yet dies in a very quick manner whereas tanks can pretty much survive a lot of punishments, or why tunnels just become its' own battlefield in many of the oldren remixed maps (A lot of devs agreed with me on this).

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fun fact: it taken me 2 months to discover what button opens chat.
another fun fact: it taken me 6 months to begin to be initiated - i mean, to stop doing newb things like running in straight lines or stay on the frontline with 2 HP or running to a enemy tank group with a engineer

anyway, i think "stack" word is too nebulous to be rly defined. what the difference between two skilled players playing doza in Under tunnels, two casual doza in Under tunnels ? stack becomes a stack only when players are skilled ? or when they are too many ? what about commander' rushes ?
i think teamstack issue doesn't exist, because stack isn't exists.

heeeeey slowly peeps, i can already seen you raging on your PC, slow down please

stack isn't a issue because game is created in a way who made stack inevitable. and a lot of maps make stacks easy to do.
i.e., Under. yea, i've just finished a 2hour Under soooo.. it will be my main example :) it's a map i really like but it defines exactly what i mean by "stack"

first: tanks. it's easy for a team to be stucked in his base by MRLS doing a firewall, or Nod have a lot of tanks and AT guys who just keep heavy fire on GDI base entrance. it's easy to be locked in his base or to lock enemy team in his base. it's a form of stack.

second: infantry. when a enemy battalion camp your tunnels ( in Nod tuns, Mobii against Chem soldiers / in GDI tuns, dozas against Mobis ) it's impossible to fight because they're stacked together, can easily kill you or shoot down 90% of your HP bar in 2 secs and can heal themselves. it's a form of stack.
third: map design. when you're stucked in your base, your harvester can't harvest Tiberium, and without Tiberium, no coffee. oh and, no money.
and, like i've already said - too many times - ingame: "No money: no tanks/good chars. No money: no win"
fourth: it's easy for coordinated players to change things. i.e., if 2 or 3 skilled players play together, they can easily take pipes, clear tuns, or help on field by sniping healers/throwing EMP nades. if 2 or 3 casual players play together, they can be really dangerous too. imagine a mammoth with 2 hotties: how many light tanks you must use to destroy it? what about SBH who can try to sneak in base ( not rly on Under but on a lot of maps ) With Nexus or other players we've already shooted down buildings in 20v20 games. in other words, we carried our team :P 

now, i know what you will say: "hey but you not talked about stackers"

now, i've a question. for you, what is a stacker?

a few of you will say names. i'll just answer you a word i'll not write because i want not violate server rules.

many of you will be more respectful and nice and will only say "skilled players who play together"

now, i've a new question.
i will not write anymore text walls in this post because it's 2:30 am and i must go sleep - and i'm not sure everyone will read my textwall.
my question is: for you, when skilled players who play together are stacking ?
i.e., me and Nexus ( yea, i often use this example because we've often played together. we're not highly skilled, but i prefer talk in my name than other player's names )
in 20v20 games, when me and Nexus played together in inf paths, we was able to clear them - we wasn't highly skilled but it's often easy to win 2v1 fights and heal ourselves later to be ready to kill another dude -
often, i ask to my team if anyone want to snipe because i like cover snipers against SBHs or mobis/patch
players don't need necessary to be highly skilled to be able to make the game "unbalanced"
in other words, when players complain about known teams of stackers, just keep in mind it can carry games. it's a fact.
but, there are another fact.
i.e., on a 2hr Under game, GDI lost because our commander haven't tried any real plan. if a known team was with us, it would absolutely change nothing. if we can't rush to destroy a building, we can't win. 2 infantry fighters can't destroy a building alone, especially on Under.
it's why i laugh - i prefer laugh than be bad or sad - when players complain about a known team. because it haven't real sense. yea, they have already won games. but like every teams, like every players, stacked or not.

now, i've a new question. many of you say "if news don't stay it's because stackers".
i'll just ask you something. you don't need friends for that. you just need to think - seriously think, not the usual things i see -
are you sure  stackers are the real reason why news don't stay ?
when a new player comes, he haven't no idea what to do. buying weapons ? they don't know. i know not other games with this gameplay. about bases ? what is a "base" ? is it a flag like usual games ? oh and how players can have tanks ? and it have many other strange stuffs that a new don't understand. oh, and.. i've not talked about non-english players. if they overmine, you can scream in chat DON'T OVERMINE if they don't know what it means they will never answer you. especially if they don't know what key use to open chat box.
now, a few of you will stay in their boots - idk if this phrase exists in english - and say "but news leave when they're easily killed by someone."
but..
hey, are you asking to skilled players to.. not fight news ? the game goal is to destroy enemy base and for reach that it's necessary to kill enemies..
what about stanks crushing news? what about SBHs ? what about every players who know how to play mobi - not really skilled, just who they know use left button with their Volt Rifle, not more -
what about arties invisible damages ? what about waves of enemies called rushes but the new player don't have any idea about what means a "rush" ? what about tanks when new is soldier because he don't know how to buy a thing ?
oh, and.. about "let news alive, don't farm kills on them", i've a fun fact about that.
when i've was newb with mobis/dozas, i've fighted against a high-skilled player. i wasn't known - MB wasn't already created. i've tried to fight this high-skilled player in 1v1 fights, but i was sure to die.
But i've not been killed.
Suddenly, when i was low HP, this high-skilled player just ran back to his base and leave me alone, leave me alive. he was full health and with all his ammo. but he left me alive. two times in a row. it was on Reservoir' dam, i was Nod  if i'm right.
i'm sure you will never guess who was this high-skilled player
- erh, already 3 AM..


anyway
i will give you my secret tip about teamstack.
if you're bored by a game, leave it. nobody have any reason to stay doing a stuff he doesn't enjoy. about players who said "ragequit", don't answer them. they have their reasons. If they want stay AFK or staying be raped for hours by enemies, they can. But nobody must bother you if you prefer do another stuffs like drinking a coffee when listening Spotify and writing a post on RenX forums. do what you want. it's the best way to enjoy your time on RenX.
because, honestly, i've more chances to invite french president to come to play with me on RenX than to see, one day, a real answer to fix the "issue problem".

and if you're fully bored by RenX, i can already said you: there is no better game than RenX.

oh, and.. a last tip.
keep in mind RenX is A GAME. it's a game. please, stop to stalk players. feel free to target them with Ramjet rifles, not with words.
we're a game community, a little community but one of the most - and certainly the most - C&C community still alive. Don't destroy it by childish comportements.

oh, and.. a laaast thing.
 

9 hours ago, roweboat said:

And remember: the one certain thing in life is change ūüėÉ

and Kane's truth ;) 

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Late by a month, but, Good to see you @RypeL.

I suppose if i have any constructive and easy approaches to this, these suggestions could be functional.
 

On 11/29/2019 at 8:09 PM, Reivax said:

fun fact: it taken me 2 months to discover what button opens chat.
another fun fact: it taken me 6 months to begin to be initiated - i mean, to stop doing newb things like running in straight lines or stay on the frontline with 2 HP or running to a enemy tank group with a engineer

Suggestions:
---Make UI regurgitate reply buttons below teamchat at all times. So basically, at bottom or top of teamchat, in narrow font or whatevs, display [Chat: Reply - "T" Global, "Y" Team]. Make T whatever the settings mapped to (this is already done in different parts of the UI iirc).
---As a feature, and iirc Planetside2 will sometimes do this based on local playercount, but maybe automatically assign players to other players with a green marker, that the player can then assign/unassign to other players later? Basically, a form of q-marking ally players, that leaves them permanently marked, and the game always automatically marks an ally at game start. For newbies and just general gameplay, this would at least encourage players not to wander around doing things by themselves. iirc, the commander mod already does a version of this just for the commander that iirc became less obvious with newer updates (instead of a unique color it matches other hud elements)

On 11/29/2019 at 8:09 PM, Reivax said:

now, i know what you will say: "hey but you not talked about stackers"

now, i've a question. for you, what is a stacker?

a few of you will say names. i'll just answer you a word i'll not write because i want not violate server rules.

many of you will be more respectful and nice and will only say "skilled players who play together"

I'm frankly saddened to see this topic blew up so badly lately. It could be addressed, but ideas are finnicky, yet moving forward constructively:
---one suggestion, is in most games you can't teamswitch unless a person on each team agrees to switch. in most games, after a victory, players are also split up. So possibly make this default, of course servers can choose to change settings, but at least there's a chance servers with this setting would be desirable? Some effort has to be made by players of course.
---if not the case, and the playerbase doesn't have competitive groups in each team that stand a chance against each other, then maybe players should be balanced by recent wins and losses while game has been running by some background tally, and the server keeping a team balance like this, if not by forcing individuals into teams, then by allowing individuals on one team but providing more of the other players to the other team. If a team stacks, the least they could do is allow the other team 1 or 2 extra of the players that aren't stacking. It's something, for sure.
---otherwise, if nothing is decided that could fix this in-game, then players are going to have to use existing tools at their disposal. That might just have to be accepted with awareness. Use gamechat, rationalize the team situation, and plan ahead. Can't win without being realistic and/or positive.

Really, my final suggestion touches on another situation anyway, and that's playercount based on server capacities, another off and on topic. This one is easy to address because my personal opinion is the same on it, and thus too fixes stacks to some degree:
---People populate large server, eventually it gets close to capacity. So add functionality, that at some "large enough" point, on match end, that half the players are migrated to another designated/automatically-chosen server, thus turning 1 full-populated server into 2 fairly-populated servers. Neither one will have enough population to stack, yet stackers and pubbers could both switch servers manually if they like. Nobody is forcing them to stay, and they're not obligated to play where's bugging them, so i'd imagine free will would fix that, NOT TO MENTION servers have more of a chance to fully populate more and more servers rather than just fully populating one and people get stuck waiting around 1 server population instead of successfully expanding to multiple server population.

E.g.: People populate FBI server. When server reaches 36 (or 40, w/e), and a match ends, the match-end detects playercount. Detecting the amount of players, it goes through map selection, then that blackscreen. Make half the players receive a trigger that has them connect to another server (either specified by server, or server decides based on server listings in-the-moment), the new server that was empty receives the players and the map choice and launches the chosen map for them. As a result, 2 servers now play the same map, each with half the population, and incoming players can now choose to populate either one. If players LIKE a large playercount, they can all migrate and make one larger again (either make a server only perform a split once, or only every so many matches in a row), while players that don't mind can play the match that's running already as players continue to join. If a large count is reached in either server a few matches later, the match-end detects large playercount again, and searches for yet another migration to execute a divide again.

An added suggestion: a map selection (when server doesn't have settings for rotation or vote-any-map), that shows 5 options based on playercount, so that servers with 12 players get snow/walls/canyon, and servers with 32 players get the larger and often new maps.

In summary; Player count, is affected by server population, willingness to expand population across multiple servers and thus multiple server-counts, and established stackers within the one struggling server population. It's important for global playercount to overcome the obstacle of single-server playercount, otherwise the future might always be rocky and limited.

Just suggestions. Some easy, some not. Sorry I don't type more concise these days lol.

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