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Regeneration


Axesor
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I was just long time wondering, why is HP and Armor two separate parts. And I was thinking about how to make a use to one of this part and give sence to play as assault character or give any infantry longevity in battle field.

My suggestion:

Regenerable Armor.

Wait 6s (from last received damage), regeneration 5s, total 11s.

Armor break

This will a little bit tricky. Give to armor abilility so after receiving hight damage (200) or any damage directly to body, armor will break but HP stays until next damage is received. But head shots (from ramjet or any weapon, sniper rifle, mini ion gun or even tanks projectile) will go throught armor and may 1shot kill target.

This way I want to make sure that player with 10 hp and 100% armor wont be 1shot killed to body.

If this ability will be added, damage of ramjet and mini ion gun could be increased to 2shot kill target if hit body. And sniper rifle 3 shot kill target to body.

Why?

=>To reward players with giving back a small amout of overal HP after fight so he can keep fighting, guard tunnels or strategic points. It will give you some chance in fight with next enemy. Falling, tiberium poison or burning damage can still kill you throuht armor.

The main idea is-give you longevity on battle field if you are in group or even lonely wolf.

Armor is 100 for all characters. It isnt much so it wont be a big gamebreaking thing if it will regenerate. It is better to fight with a 32% than with 2%.

=>Dont need to go back to base to refil after every fight.

Doesnt it break team play?

=>Simple answer: Not at all! This game was made for TP and one of playstyles is team-push playstyle so you will never get very far without team, you cant guard strategic points all alone, you cant push alone. (sure you can but its still 50/50 chance or even less). Keep in mind that your enemy is also player with same benefits so fight can end with large hp loses. Your hp loses in group will be lower and reward is therefore greater.

-Healing role of engineers wont be forgotten, but It is stupid to rely, that engineer will fully heal you.

-There will still be missing health points after armor renegeration which needs engineers repair gun.

Separated from the original thread. http://renegade-x.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=75035

Agresor :mad:

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Dislike. I can already lone-wolf it enough in this game, and health regen would make skilled players that much better. Just not needed.

I've always thought it'd be nice to have one special character that had this role, but to have it for any character/player is too much of an advantage for certain players (not to mention sbhs).

Pause video at 2:32.

There was something similar considered for the game that could be a decent alternative (referring to the kits).

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With that Armor Break thing, people will be able to handle Obi and AGT a little bit too easier...

Maybe set this towers to aim for head.

Wow those arguments about immortal skilled players *facepalm*

Sometimes its just about luck and you may kill nobody. You are not playing againts brainless bots but mostly againts experienced players where you mostly win fight with +-1% hp so why not give you some small amout of health back?

I think you are just affraid you wont kill this skilled snipers even at the tenth atempt. Well then he is doing his job very well! accept it. Its just too unacceptable play againts skilled players with 31% of overal hp? Rly guys? Burn him out with airstrike then! Or take tank. There is so many ways to kill player with low hp even if he is top skilled.

One more time-ITS NOT HEALTH REGEN but Armor regen. It would return 100 points back after fight. Falling, burning and toxic damage can still kill you throuht full armor.

Imagine: 200hp 100ar, after fight 50hp 0ar (11s wait) 50hp 100ar.

I just want to give longevity to any infantry on field. It will boost lone wolfs and even team players with same amount.

About SBH issue. Well they could be killed even with 100% of Hp. If not, they are doing their jobs good then. Lets imagine SBH in open filed. What can they rly do? Maybe defend Silo, kill lonely wolfs, annoying snipers. Forsing GDI to play in group...oh sorry who said dat?? I wanted to destroy teamplay in this game!

Good lone wolfs just forsing enemy team to play in groups.

EDIT: Reaction on HaTe's video. Ye i see it. Looks interesting. I would like it if they return it to the game.

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Too complicated. However, I always thought engineers repairing ARMOR ONLY was worthwhile idea, as they technically "repair" and healing and repairing aren't the same thing. Their welding looking repair guns look like they could tune up armor but not flesh wounds.

Gameplay wise, that just means if you do more than their armor worth of damage, the damage you did is permanent. That much sounds good to me, especially breaking the neverending healing engines that is a vehicle siege. You could chip away at the repairmen until you actually accomplish something. Also, Ramjets bodyshots would be a step up because it would do irrepairable damage compared to a 500 bodyshot.

Also, headshots doing direct damage to health, sounds like it can get cheesy and OP, but just maybe if it isn't too wtf-i-died, then it would be ok.

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With that Armor Break thing, people will be able to handle Obi and AGT a little bit too easier...

Maybe set this towers to aim for head.

This would kill any character in the game, currently the top-tiered characters survive an obelisk blast with 50health remaining. Your "quick fix" would raise a new issue in that sense.

I just want to give longevity to any infantry on field. It will boost lone wolfs ...

This is the one thing we dont want to happen. We want to encourage people to participate in teamplay only.

Good lone wolfs just forsing enemy team to play in groups.

This is just [email protected] Just because the SBH lonewolvers are anoying and pestering the snipers doesnt mean they will go change and take a tank and hotty because trying to snipe is too anoying. This would reduce variable gameplay. Snipers are just as needed as any other class in a team effort. Snipers main target are the repair crew of the opposing faction.

Besides, with your suggestion, I'd be taking SBH + carbine/flechette even more often. Why take a sakura/BH Sniper when you can get up close to the enemy infantry?

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Nono sorry for my english but...

Also, headshots doing direct damage to health, sounds like it can get cheesy and OP, but just maybe if it isn't too wtf-i-died, then it would be ok.

Head shots wont deal direct damage to health. It will just bypass armor stoping damage after it breaks. Direct damage to healts deals only toxic, falling and burning damage just like it is set now.

Example: Dealed damage=200

-target 100hp 100ar

body shot-100hp 0ar left

head shot-dead

I dont know how to explain it better.

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Maybe set this towers to aim for head.

This would kill any character in the game, currently the top-tiered characters survive an obelisk blast with 50health remaining. Your "quick fix" would raise a new issue in that sense.

Yes its true. Its also possible to make obi and agt to ignore this feature so nothing will change for this towers.

Axesor wrote:

I just want to give longevity to any infantry on field. It will boost lone wolfs ...

Truxa wrote:

This is the one thing we dont want to happen. We want to encourage people to participate in teamplay only.

Hey dont cut my text! It wont boost lone wolfs only. It will boost both sides- as the wolves loner, as well as team players, with same amount. The only change that occurs is that infantry will get more longevity on battle field.

Btw this game wasnt made only for team plays ( Devs said this in video). You can be anything you want and there is nothing what you rly can do about it.

You wanna play lonely wolf sniper? Ok, get ready that you are going to face attackts from the SBHs. As well SBHs cant rly do a thing againts enemy group.

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Nono sorry for my english but...

Also, headshots doing direct damage to health, sounds like it can get cheesy and OP, but just maybe if it isn't too wtf-i-died, then it would be ok.

Head shots wont deal direct damage to health. It will just bypass armor stoping damage after it breaks. Direct damage to healts deals only toxic, falling and burning damage just like it is set now.

Example: Dealed damage=200

-target 100hp 100ar

body shot-100hp 0ar left

head shot-dead

I dont know how to explain it better.

I got it, but it sounds really complex to calculate damage, it would be difficult to know in a split second what shooting where would do.

Thus my simpler suggestion lol. I wouldn't mind adding new mechanics, like health not being repairable, armor being repairable, and ways to possibly do marginal damage to health despite armor.

Fun fact, in the original Renegade Tutorial for C&C Renegade, it said that all weapons do some damage to health when they hit. Armor just reduces damage to health. So with no armor, a shot does 50 damage to health, with armor a shot does 10 damage to health and 25 damage to armor. The rest of the game campaign and multiplayer never followed the same mechanic, but it sounded cool to be honest and I sort of regret not having a lethality cap and/or lethality bypass of sorts, like marginal health damage through armor, or special shots bypassing armor like headshots, or repair not being able to bring health up and just armor.

Hotwire: "Watch what happens when I shoot you!" Havoc: "Was that necesary?" Hotwire: "With armor, now watch what happens! Okay, I promise that was the last time."

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Armor did have its own separate classification in armor.ini in the original, so it was entirely possible to do. Armor and flesh both had the exact same calculation numbers for the most part though (the exception being the flamethrower and the chem trooper receiving less explosive damage)

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If it's not too much thing on the shop already, how about making this as a buyable equipment? Like... this...

Each buy gets us 3 times use 'Armor Repair Kit' or 'Painkiller', which can only be used out of combat. It will give the user a progress bar like the beacon or airstrike, which fails when the player gets shot. Can also be used on friendlies for lower usage time to encourage teamplay... and because equipments are all on the same slot (meaning you won't be able to buy beacons AND repair kits at the same time)

The side effect would also reduce the overuse of hotties and tech. IMO they're too overrated for a support class, not that I hate them anyway

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If it's not too much thing on the shop already, how about making this as a buyable equipment? Like... this...

Each buy gets us 3 times use 'Armor Repair Kit' or 'Painkiller', which can only be used out of combat. It will give the user a progress bar like the beacon or airstrike, which fails when the player gets shot. Can also be used on friendlies for lower usage time to encourage teamplay... and because equipments are all on the same slot (meaning you won't be able to buy beacons AND repair kits at the same time)

The side effect would also reduce the overuse of hotties and tech. IMO they're too overrated for a support class, not that I hate them anyway

I do approve of out of combat med kits, for restoring health or whatnot either slow regen or fast-one-time-beacon-loadbar, for the same reason.

However, I also approve of a purchaseable secondary weapon repairgun for classes with primary weapons to opt to be half ass engineers. For the same reason, engineers are overrated.

As well as making c4 loadouts purchaseable, to seperate infiltration from repair on the same unit intertwined.

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I do approve of out of combat med kits, for restoring health or whatnot either slow regen or fast-one-time-beacon-loadbar, for the same reason.

Well, my first idea is not slow regen tho. It's almost insta heal armor or health when the repair is done. I'm very much welcome for any other ideas

However, I also approve of a purchaseable secondary weapon repairgun for classes with primary weapons to opt to be half ass engineers. For the same reason, engineers are overrated.

57237343.jpg

The kits for infantries, The reps for buildings/vehicles

But of course, if we want to keep it simple, we can just use the Repair Guns

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The kits for infantries, The reps for buildings/vehicles

But of course, if we want to keep it simple, we can just use the Repair Guns

Under the assumption, that med kits replaced c4, the rep gun replaced secondaries, and the possibility of repair guns no longer repairing health and just armor, I had originally meant both. Just so you know.

To get slightly more complex, an armor item that is faster than a medkit and equip mid-combat for +50 armor, that takes the c4 slot, and isn't reuseable in opposite to a slow regening medkit, might also work. Be sorta cheesy...

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Regeneration is a bit too much of a 'given' attribute to really make sense here. You're not given much in Renegade without having to do something. The only exception to the rule really is the credit tick you get just from having a Refinery, and now the 1 credit tick that happens even though you're team lost it (but we won't get angry about that here).

Renegade >IS< however a game of rewards. You already get points for hitting things, the reward of higher economy for destroying the other team's Harvester. You take away a team's ability to buy things for destroying buildings. That list goes on.

That being said, I think we should just look back at the system that was proposed earlier on these boards about infantry dropping health/armour when killed. If you're good in a 1v1, you should be rewarded with a bit of compensation to health. It's not as though this would just be giving you health for running away (E.g getting sniped on the body then just go hide behind a rock for 10 seconds to heal), but rather compensating you on doing something useful, which is murdering that poor fellow so his ideals will never see the light of day again. This would add to infantry longevity during rushes and in tunnels, but without ever being able to overshadow Hotwire/Technician's ability to fully heal an individual. At least, if we make it tier-based it would help.

By tier-based, I was thinking along the lines of.

Free Infantry drop the 25hp recovery

Tier-1 drop the 50hp recovery item

Tier-2 Drop 100

Tier 3 infantry drop a 150 or 200... whatever's around in the resources.

Engineers/Hotwires/Techs could in turn only drop armour on death just for the sake of variety.

---

PRO vs. CON list:

PRO

+People can stop complaining that they have to rely on teammates in a team game...

+Allow assault infantry to be rewarded slightly more for doing their job

+Add some longevity to infantry field bouts without just GIVING it to away

+Isn't able to fully heal all of the time, meaning it doesn't make Hotwire/Technicians a novelty. In the field where there isn't much CQC with infantry, it still means Hotwires/Techs will need to be aware of infantry to heal around them.

+Snipers/ranged campers wouldn't partake in the benefit, encouraging more CQC

+The models for health pick-ups are already lying around from Black Dawn

CON

-Enemies could potentially pick up dropped health/armour

-SBHs walking around with Fletchette guns and Carbines would now be more annoying and able to heal after fights, though that's a different problem all together.

-People stealing your hard earned health and stuff, but that's a player issue.

----

Again, this was all proposed awhile ago, but we just all kind of forgot to keep pushing it.

Just reiterating since this was something proposed awhile ago that a lot of people liked the idea. It just sort of got swept under a rug and forgotten about like several suggestions on this board.

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Just reiterating since this was something proposed awhile ago that a lot of people liked the idea. It just sort of got swept under a rug and forgotten about like several suggestions on this board.

I can dig that idea too. However, a purchaseable item isn't a given, it is economy based, which economy needs more to spend and less earned to balance it anyhow. The problem isn't the passive 1 credit tick you brought up just to reinterate and pretend you aren't reinterating it. It is how much economy in general is given. The 2 ticks per silo is more bothersome.

Also had to do this...

PRO

+People can stop complaining that they have to rely on Engineers in a Engineer-Ecentric game...

That is another problem. I rather SBH get carbine and flichette, than engis, but if other classes could just get repair guns, then at least you would see primary weapon classes with repairguns compared to engineer-only games.

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If that's an option, I'd want those repair guns to only be able to repair armor at the most. Engineers and technicians still need to play their vital role

If anything, those repairgun sidearms for any character should do half the repairing speed what a normal engineer does. It's just an augmentation for cooperative infiltration without a techy/hot/engi repairing you after a gunfight.

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If that's an option, I'd want those repair guns to only be able to repair armor at the most. Engineers and technicians still need to play their vital role

Honestly:

>>Repair guns might should always repair armor, techs or not. That much was established. I had the hugest Planetside2-esque medic-orgy in RenX earlier today in a marathon server outside the enemy tunnel.

>>Mines should be about as fast to disarm as they are to repair the damage soaked by a teammate. Basically, at least 40% faster. Because each one takes 8 seconds now when someone soaking a single mine of damage takes 3 seconds to repair.

>>The purchaseable secondary, should probably be engineer strength for sake of simplicity, but cost 300 which is almost what an advanced repair gun could run you anyway except you CANT buy an advanced one as sidearm.

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Yeah, at this point in the game with engineers and tech running around with carbines, I think buying basic repair guns as secondary weapons would be perfectly fine.

Hm.

But would that end up being in any way useful?

I can't think of any class that'd profit from buying a repair gun that replaces it's main weapon.

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Secondary, not primary.

Techs are still far better, repair 2x faster, have proximity, are far superior infiltrator... and can still use the utterly overpowered carbines.

Sorry, but being able to buy a normal repair gun is not too much.

In fact, I don't picture it being that useful, because the engi repair gun is really not that good. Its just there to give you some options.

If it was up to me, its either that, or techs and engineers cannot buy sidearms at all. Take your pick.

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Sorry, but being able to buy a normal repair gun is not too much.

If you have a team of two LCGs, each with a repair gun as secondary equiped, that's basically a duo that doesn't need to run back until they are out of ammo (which they most likely will).

What's more, a lot of those techs by the tanks, if they were smart and are tank-dedicated would use heavy pistol which does 2% damage a shot to tanks usually, making a clip do 12% damage. Rather high actually.

A repairgun secondary means sniper teams or anti-armor masses escorting their armor, have a sustainability option.

Not repairing health, limits it so if they sustain more damage than just armor then it starts to dwindle.

Another possible mechanic, like Old C&C Renegade's tutorial suggested, for all shots to do some damage to health no matter what, might be neat too. If everything did 1 point of it's damage to health even with armor damage, that means you can only survive so many bullets despite repairs. In the old Tut, it was like 20% of the damage, but in hindsight for multiplayer it would have to be no more than 1-5 points of damage depending on the initial damage. 1 for autorifle, 5 for a grenade hit, 10 for a 500 sniper hit. Obviously shots that exceed armor just do the normal damage to health, this is just a thought if health was unrepairable and just armor, this system would both increase and decrease at the same time.

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Buying a repair gun is a really bad idea. What should happen is ammo/armor drops (backpack idea of mine maybe?) when an enemy is killed that can be picked up by anyone. Snipers would have to leave their comfort zones to grab these items while the close quarters combat characters should have a higher chance of getting them.

If anything, I think every non engineer class should have a repair tool that is almost melee range that heals 50% as good as the normal engineers. Also while doing it their movement is slowed by 35 - 50%. Make it a dedicated weapon slot (same slot as remote c4??).

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If anything, I think every non engineer class should have a repair tool that is almost melee range that heals 50% as good as the normal engineers. Also while doing it their movement is slowed by 35 - 50%. Make it a dedicated weapon slot (same slot as remote c4??).

That's what I first proposed, except it's a bought 2-3 use equipment replacing Beacon slot (although C4 slot is fine too), and instead of slowing down, the movement needs to completely stop, as if deploying beacon or airstrike, and each damage done would cancel the progress bar. A non-combat kit you can use on yourself or teammate, but takes longer when used on yourself

Think of it as L4D health pack actually

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