Beta 4 Preliminary Changelist

[Ap2000]

Have you guys ever considered having grenades in weapon slot 4 so infantry can flush out corner snipers without having to give up timed c4?

I think it's better to have them replace it.

[Unit]

I play this game, and i generally on the whole, like it a lot. the amount of work that has gone in is just unreal ( ) I only bother to even post because there are just some glaring problems with it.

what it feels like is you have a friend called Renegade(X) and hes not doing so well, you've been his friend for as long as you can remember and want to help him. however he succumbs to peer pressure easily, hes met a crowd of new friends since youve been pretty busy doing other things and hadnt visited or called as much, though you never fell out or anything. All the new people he has met arent bad people, but they encourage your friend to take drugs with them, nothing major but its a slippery slope you can see coming. You desperately want to stop your friend doing stupid things but hes too easily swayed and just continues to take more drugs until the person you knew is only a shadow of who they once were, still they are a good person and you feel if you could just get through to them youd be able to help them recover and get healthy again like they deserve to be.

pub players do team play, or at least they did on the Jelly Marathon server which up until recently had been the number one server for almost the entire renegade life span. the want to end rounds makes team play, the game rewards team play and does not reward going solo except on rare occasions of skill mastery. whereas currently renegade-X almost seems to discourage team play and wants to actively encourage going solo.

Renegade didnt have a big community? absolutely rediculous, the only thing that destroyed the original renegade is the same thing that the devs allowed to destroy this game before it even got off the ground, and that is hackers.

hackers like this ... *edited. this was from the FIRST beta version and that hack has LONG been dealt with*

hackers plagued every corner of the original game in every server, and several times even the owners of entire server communities would be in on the cheating that would be happening, another reason its pretty ironic that EKT is one of the only server communities left.

Hackers absolutely crushed the original game, but even all the hackers that there were renegade it still lived for 13 years and i dare say is still going.

Currently Renegade-X is being balanced like one of the servers in the original which had insanely fruity settings and died about 6 years earlier than servers that just stuck to the original formula. Are you going to claim that by moving away from what is provably a successful formula together with the propper anti-cheat capabilities is going to increase the size of the community and success of the game.

That in and of itself is the recipe for disaster.

[RoundShades]

Currently Renegade-X is being balanced like one of the servers in the original which had insanely fruity settings and died about 6 years earlier than servers that just stuck to the original formula. Are you going to claim that by moving away from what is provably a successful formula together with the propper anti-cheat capabilities is going to increase the size of the community and success of the game.

That in and of itself is the recipe for disaster.

Honestly, why make C&C Renegade, when C&C Renegade already exists. What benefit would one get from reinventing the exact same object over again?

They are taking C&C Renegade, making the same game and same mode and weapons and setting and character and such, and making gameplay that is slightly different. All they are basically doing, is slight rebalances which are actually asked for by the community, and mechanic additions like the ones you hate, that ALLOW soloing but don't straight up encourage it. It becomes an option, as well as using infantry at all, but it doesn't become the only option.

The goal, is to allow options for a single player, a 2 man team, or a mass, to do, and make none of it overpowered for an equal manpower to deal with. It isn't "hardcore skillplayz mlg 360 noscope claymore cancel", but at least it lends variety to the game. Honestly, idc what anyone claims, any dev and anyone ever, knows the real key to a good game, is functionality followed by variety. If bugs make it difficult beyond a reasonable threshold, then it becomes unplayable and loses majority playerbase. If it gets stale fast, then people leave when they are done with it.

This is different from C&C Renegade, because those sticking with it enjoyed it enough to stick with it despite staleness and issues. It was a good enough game to stick with, despite all the classes and vehicles amounted to usually 1 of 6 being a "real" choice and anything else was team-hampering. It was a unique and fun game. It wasn't too stale with modding even.

Renegade X is getting some maps. Some aren't the best, but the devs are willing to keep implementing ideas to the maps until they get something functional. Renegade X is also getting the best shot they can do at 10 functioning choices of infantry and 7+ functioning choices of vehicle, as well as 4 or 5 varieties of game mechanics to exploit to achieve the goal of enemy base destruction. Infantry become functional and threatening to structures without explicit use of vehicles. Vehicles still retain their old overpowering function. Many tools like smoke and emp and airstrikes add possible openings to mines/defences/repairs. If you need to try to bypass one of those, you can use a tool to try and slip in a tactical strike. Push back tanks by hitting their repairmen. Stop a stank rush with a quick reaction emp nade. Disarm mine cluster without a long time and a hotwire or damage soaking with emp nades. Get into an enemy base with smoke nades so base defences are powerful but not "perfect".

All it does is teach new gameplay, watching for these openings to be exploited. Guard patrol has to cover gaps in base defences, if smoke is seen a guard can see it and fire into it and suppress anyone trying to use it to infiltrate.

In Renegade, you did 1 of 3 things upon really starting the premise of the game. You grabbed a vehicle and assaulted a base, building up teammates to overpower a structure, the entertainment really coming from the fact it took so long and so much prodding to finally overcome repairs 20-30 minutes later. Or, you grabbed an anti-vehicle or sniper, and attacked vehicles or tunnels in order to attack vehicles or infantry from tunnels and/or attack vehicles and infantry near their own base, which helped the tank war by thinning repairs and assisting armor damage. Or, you infiltrated with hotwire or tech or sbh or simply a sniper with beacon, and you used an apc or the tunnels and could only reach the edge of a structure in 1 spot if you were lucky and had to deal with the mines. Those are your options, done with 1 of 6 classes or 1 of 4 vehicles.

In Renegade X, it is rather nice to run into more kinds of vehicles, since mammies aren't a wrong answer, and to run into infantry of all sorts in tunnels and field that are as threatening as vehicles are, and to run into things besides snipers and pic/rail and sbh and tech/hotwires. It is nice that despite snipers there is a free class sniper, that there is more to do with tunnel entrances besides a small edge to reach where the base defense nearly kills you but not quite, that a tank pile at the entrance of the base isn't the undefeatable king of strategies at the center of the game, and that games are won and lost in more ways than before.

The interesting thing is, this is also a class based game. And if you limit equipment like emps and smoke to 1 of a single one per single person, then most combinations of equipment become 2-3 man jobs. Which still encourages teamwork, within the casual and normal realm you get within a game, and that is solo, two people, and 3 people. And that tank pyle still exists and still sieges bases, so the 16 man teamwork field play still exists too. It caters to all, not just that 16 man slugfest.

[Handepsilon]

I don't believe there's any hacker in this game, not yet at least. After all, this is a UDK game

Besides, Renegade X is not intended to be a straight-out remake as far as I know, and I don't think a total clone will be successful anyway. Just because it was a success then doesn't mean it's gonna be a success now

But I guess I only have little to say, being a new player

[GatsuFox]

I don't believe there's any hacker in this game, not yet at least. After all, this is a UDK game

Besides, Renegade X is not intended to be a straight-out remake as far as I know, and I don't think a total clone will be successful anyway. Just because it was a success then doesn't mean it's gonna be a success now

But I guess I only have little to say, being a new player

This ignorance astounds me. There's been hackers since day 1, its very easy to hack in this game. We had speed hacking in Beta 1, and we still have aimbot, wallhack, and no-cooldown weapon fire-rate hack which is just ridiculous. We had a guy in a flame tank who killed 3 mammoth tanks and a medium tank in under a second with maybe 5 or 6 infantry he -accidently- killed during the frenzy.

I bet aimbot toggling is more popular than you think, which is why we're very careful to analyze players. If someone has a slow playstyle yet has godly aim then something might be going on.

Point is that there are many hackers in this game. Most of the regulars probably don't hack but I bet there are some dirty players who wallhack and toggle.

[yosh56]

I don't believe there's any hacker in this game, not yet at least. After all, this is a UDK game

Besides, Renegade X is not intended to be a straight-out remake as far as I know, and I don't think a total clone will be successful anyway. Just because it was a success then doesn't mean it's gonna be a success now

But I guess I only have little to say, being a new player

Umm, you truly weren't around for B1. Like Gatsu said, hacking was very abundant back then, and even now we have some hackers about. I personally haven't seen any since I've come back, but I do know in beta 2 we had a rather notorious aim-bot crew.

Just another reason the game does need to be ported to Steam (when it's ready though) so that a true release can have better anti-cheat measures.

[Handepsilon]

This ignorance astounds me. There's been hackers since day 1, its very easy to hack in this game. We had speed hacking in Beta 1, and we still have aimbot, wallhack, and no-cooldown weapon fire-rate hack which is just ridiculous. We had a guy in a flame tank who killed 3 mammoth tanks and a medium tank in under a second with maybe 5 or 6 infantry he -accidently- killed during the frenzy.

I bet aimbot toggling is more popular than you think, which is why we're very careful to analyze players. If someone has a slow playstyle yet has godly aim then something might be going on.

Point is that there are many hackers in this game. Most of the regulars probably don't hack but I bet there are some dirty players who wallhack and toggle.

Ugh *facepalm* I knew I should've tried to play online during Beta 1... I'm curious as to how it would be possible... although some ini editing and such would probably be likely. Not sure about .u editing since it will possibly lock you from playing online, as it does in UT

[Canucck]

I'm curious as to how it would be possible...

Something as basic as an aimbot transfers across all UE3 games easily. There are multiple communities/sites that are dedicated to making/selling cheats for UE3 games. It's done through injecting DLLs

[RypeL]

Beta 1 was Beta 1. It was fresh and buggy. And it had some easy exploits that could be used for fast firing pic or like accessing the enemy PT. Those have been fixed. But there can always be hackers that use aimbots and togglebots etc. Why ? Cause we use the Unreal Engine. Simple as that. Like Cannuck said there are countless cheats for it that work on every Unreal Engine game and no AAA developer could ever stop all of them. So if you would expect us to make a breakthrough anti cheat system that stops all cheating for Unreal Engine then you must be naive. So this game, as many other games, is relying on server mods and admins to keep cheaters at bay. Im not sure if old Renegade had a replay system but Ren-X has. For example the TMX server records every game. When something suspicious happens they can rewatch it in the replay. Thats something atleast that certainly has helped and i can not stress its importance enough. Even players can start a demo with the "recorddemo" command. Everyone who cheats in Ren-X at any time risks beeing recorded in a replay and risks getting banned from the server and or globally. Everyone who gets caught and is reported to us will get a global ban. Right now banning is a bit tedious cause we can only ban on IP and IP Range. But if cheaters tend to really become a big proglem we can and will force Steam to be activated in order to play so bans can happen based on Steam-ID.

[Handepsilon]

A part of me wish that Steam would not be essential, since it's blocked on my wifi spot. But if it finally becomes necessity, I guess I'll have no choice

[Wrench]

please... lower the intro sound....

[Ap2000]

please... lower the intro sound....

While it is undeniably too loud, you can just remove/rename the movie files.

[RoundShades]

please... lower the intro sound....

While it is undeniably too loud, you can just remove/rename the movie files.

It is like "street fighter 4" too loud though. I mean, it is loud, but games do that, and badass ones are kinda cool. This is a badass intro and junk. It is longish, but shortish. If it were any less, I'd rid it. I don't though.

I did once upon a time, when beta2 crashed a lot. Beta 3 came, and I watch it, since its only 1 or 2 times a day I watch it. Besides, Kenz said there should be some mention of totem arts when/if you stream, and that intro is pretty convinent for that (I record, so I can modify sound/volume for the end product)

[Handepsilon]

I for one... feels that the intro ends in a cliffhanger...

Well, I'm also aware that for now, it's not cancelable in beta 3

[Alkaline!]

Please leave ramjet as it is, 200 dmg to infantry. It should kill infantry with 1 shot, punishment for loosing baracks or Hand of nod.

free infantry should fear sak havoc, besides already a good shot gunner can take out havoc/sak in 2 shots.

I also think giving sak/havoc 2 c4's is stupid, thats not the role the class should play.

Finally the only thing I agree with is the damage change to light and med tanks, this should give ppl more reason to play with ravshaw/sydney.

[epicelite]

Tone down the volume of the Orca's engines?

[RypeL]

We already did that in B3. Still too loud ?

[DoctorB0NG]

Holy crap, I'm glad I don't remember how loud they were in beta 1/2 Haha. Orcas definitely could use a 50% noise reduction

[Ap2000]

Yes, now that you mentioned it, they are still too loud.

Orcas are the main reason why I put its audio channel much lower than anything else. Especially when there are 3 or more Orcas it's an insane sound.

[Handepsilon]

Please leave ramjet as it is, 200 dmg to infantry. It should kill infantry with 1 shot, punishment for loosing baracks or Hand of nod

That's TOO MUCH punisment for losing one building. On top of not having higher tier, you also receive one-shot spawn-death. Yeah, sounds fun

[Gaysha]

I heard muh beloved noobjet is getting nerfed I cant believe im saying this but as has been suggested; Just get rid of the ramjet please.

These compromises look very silly to me and i almost exclusively play infiltration with noobjet. You will not make a good infiltration unit by losing the 1 thing that made it a viable gun inside/close to the enemy base. Once you start firing that big blue beam you get SWARMED by everyone you kill and more, respawning and going shotty. You can put up some good fights and move around alot but it is quite challenging right now. If you change the current role of the noobjet theres just much better alternatives to choose from when doing literally everything its good at now.

The visibility of the ramjet is as you all know a tradeoff to its power, lose the power and well... Id rather lose the range than the damage. Ill infiltrate with 500 before the nerfed ramjet, it doesnt seem like the tradeoff is worth it anymore.

That said, i dont know how the game acts once changes are implemented, so experimentation is great!

I suggest 3 things to consider if you want to make a great commando:

-A new automatic gun(or b3 carbine) a rifle thats a cross between carbine-marksman or an SMG, silenced.

Maybe a choice between the two inside the purchase terminal. Something that can kill just as fast as the current carbine or lcg in the right hands.

-Increased sprint/some kind of agility.

-Unique inventory possibillites:

Instead of 2 timed give him 1 timed and motes, or just motes! Motes give you a great deal of options and fit the commando-role.

Let him carry smoke/EMP ASWELL as the 2 C4's maybe and air/ion on top of that. Heck even a character specific unique item.

Someone who is worth buying for unique on-the-fly versatility and mobility. One that can jump out in the field, mote tanks from the flank, finish hotties and then smoke and evade... Not only an infiltrator of bases but someone you dont want sneaking up on your arty-siege aswell. A tactical character that opens up unique teamwork possibillites and may even have a special refill-mechanic. Hit-and-run, careful sneaking.. a backstabber with some explosives. Ofcourse im not suggesting implementing everything i said, these are ideas for a character that makes sense and is fun.

He cant have a gun on-par with mob/sydney/500, so if you want to get rid of the iconic ramjet you need something else truly!

Thats my 2 cents. Thanks a ton devs.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Guest

[Handepsilon]

Anti air is still a problem though if we remove the Ramjet

[Gaysha]

Obviously there should be a couple changes if the ramjet dissapears, make the 500, officer, APC, rocket or any number of other units more capable against air, lower air units HP etc... Heck just 2 carbines do a decent amount of damage right now not to mention heavy pistol.

1# unit to buy during an air rush should be mobius anyway, with the mysterious longer-range secondary fire mentioned, maybe the volt is even more capable..

With the ramjet nerfed fewer people will use it, so other things should and will have to combat air regardless.

[RoundShades]

I still hope the ramjet is acceptable against air, I would like the ramjet to be as strong as 500s are in beta 3 vs air, and 500s to be reduced to half.

The ramjet is iconic, they haven't removed a single Classic Ren thing yet so they shouldn't now. Making it into a standard shooter's 50 cal (slight more damage on infy but not 1 hit kill, and decent against vehicle armor), compared to the 500 sniper being the standard shooter's bolt action (strong on infy but half as strong on armor and not at all against platearmor).

Another infiltrator class via the 2 timed c4 thing, why not make that a purchaseable to replace timed c4. It is kinda like adding another class, except as an addon to every existing class. Any class can purchase 2 timed c4 for 400. Makes sbh cost 800 so failure cost more. Makes any non-tech class able to count as 2 in infiltration. Really, probably most powerful for volt classes, as a single volt class infiltrating a ref could toast it by laying it on thick to the MCT all at once with 2 explosives and a clip of volt. Someone do the math, if the explosions happen with the gunfire how long does it take to kill a structure with a volt? I would guess 25-50 rounds of a volt is all it'd take after the explosions. Also good if infantry run into enemy tanks at close range, as 2 timed can melt heavy tanks.

Besides that, this beta4 changelist includes some entirely new game mechanics, so we should see how the ramjet changed to tank-rounds sniper-rifle works, and how smoke grenades and emp mine disarm strategies work, and how light armor works. Really, it is good with all the infantry buffs to their ability to accomplish the goal of the game via enemy base destruction, that artillery and air are getting buffs to be more dangerous pressure against a base.

[Handepsilon]

Well, if people still complains about ramjet's long-range anti air capability, Dev can always modify the function so that Ramjet can do a different damage against aircrafts as opposed to being tied up to all light vehicles.

Unless it defeats the purpose of the change of course

[yosh56]

Just random tired musings of The Yosh. I know we kinda' dropped the topic, and the RNG was shot down (for good reason), but did they ever consider giving sniper rifles heavier recoil? Throwing off your aim after the first shot fits into the 'Punishment for missing' category, but still rewards those who can aim to begin with, and even moreso those who can aim and re-aim.

[Handepsilon]

*readies the shield for another flame war*

I'm just going to wait for the others to voice the opinion.

[SFJake]

*raises flamethrower*

Burn all recoils!

Seriously, I hate recoil, and worse, even with very heavy recoil on snipers I don't really see what difference it would make for any practiced sniper. There's also a small bit of it and your aim is off after, but I NEVER NOTICED IT! Why would I ever want to shoot twice in the exact same spot? I'm shooting moving targets, last I checked.

Though right now, recoil is only really a nerf to automatics (which annoys me, even though automatics in gneeral have more damage than the old Renegade). Having to re-aim between shots for a very slow firing weapons really feels irrelevant.

Unless you make the recoil so heavy I look at the sky after every shot. Which would only be incredibly annoying.

[GatsuFox]

*raises flamethrower*

Burn all recoils!

Seriously, I hate recoil, and worse, even with very heavy recoil on snipers I don't really see what difference it would make for any practiced sniper. There's also a small bit of it and your aim is off after, but I NEVER NOTICED IT! Why would I ever want to shoot twice in the exact same spot? I'm shooting moving targets, last I checked.

Though right now, recoil is only really a nerf to automatics (which annoys me, even though automatics in gneeral have more damage than the old Renegade). Having to re-aim between shots for a very slow firing weapons really feels irrelevant.

Unless you make the recoil so heavy I look at the sky after every shot. Which would only be incredibly annoying.

Recoil is just there to make a player have proper mouse control. Recoil is fine when it's not put through a random number generator like counter strikes weapon bounce or Call of Duty 4's general recoil rise.

[SFJake]

Recoil is -worse- when its not random because it implies that to learn a gun, you need to learn recoil pattern. I personally hate this stuff, its just ridiculous and gets in the way of the simple fun of shooters. I could never enjoy Counter-Strike because of how the shooting works. You don't make the players learn recoil patterns, its absurd.

As much as I hate recoil, I'd take random ANY DAY over patterns. If its just an obvious, linear recoil, or just a light recoil, then thats not too bad.

[Handepsilon]

Off-current topic : I'd like to see some matinee-driven scene for the menu. If not as default, maybe as an alternate option

[Ap2000]

About making havocs into a kind of infiltration class; How about giving it a ca. 3 sec invisibility with a long cool-down?

Something strong like this would of course mean stripping the unit of the ramjet.

@Gaysha; What's a "mote"?

Recoil is -worse- when its not random because it implies that to learn a gun, you need to learn recoil pattern. I personally hate this stuff, its just ridiculous and gets in the way of the simple fun of shooters. I could never enjoy Counter-Strike because of how the shooting works. You don't make the players learn recoil patterns, its absurd.

As much as I hate recoil, I'd take random ANY DAY over patterns. If its just an obvious, linear recoil, or just a light recoil, then thats not too bad.

See, I personally think every game that isn't an arena shooter, like UT, automatically gets better with recoil.

I agree that random recoil is better, simply because it's more believable.

[Handepsilon]

@AP He meant Remote C4, Engi's special C4

[RoundShades]

About making havocs into a kind of infiltration class; How about giving it a ca. 3 sec invisibility with a long cool-down?

Something strong like this would of course mean stripping the unit of the ramjet.

Or making another class/giving it as purchaseable equipment for any class.

1st rule of remaking a nostalgic classic: Always keep the classic stuff, even if tweaked. The ramjet will work like a 50cal tank rifle now, and the 500 sniper will work like a bolt action, but they are legacy with a tweak, much like the mammy's buff and the arty's arc and the tiberium splash rifle being moved but not gotten rid of (the character was a duplicate anyway so they didn't get rid of it either and still added a Unique canon character and a Unreal beloved weapon).

So, I have been like, so hyped about the approaching beta 4 release. I have been so curious to the much secretive beta 4 testing as to how it's going and how everything feels. I know a lot of what they are changing even before public release and it just makes it even more amazing.

I am so friggin excited. Hopefully two weeks tops now. Cheers!

[Glacious]

I do wonder why there is so much emphasis on snipers here when the game is so much wider than that aka vehicles

Can imagine its a stupidly hard game to balance though as you have the old school Ren players wanting it to be as much like the original as possible, and then the new players wanting things changed in order to make it a completely different game from the original.

Won't say to much BroTranquilty but Beta 4 going really well I think personally

As for the recoil aspect, I don't really see the point in adding things like that as at the end of the day Renegade X isn't BF or COD, Ren X is its own game and should be kept that way

[dgturner]

Overall these fixes seem to alter the gameplay in a way that will provide a new experience to the game but keep the integrity of the original game intact (for the most part).

Obviously, the most controversial potential change is the proximity mine disabling power of EMP grenades. I can describe from experience that continually losing buildings through sneaky methods can be extremely frustrating and when players feel like they don't really have an effect on the game their in tend to lose interest. With this in mind, introducing measures that will allow the defending players (most likely GDI) to better defend against these kind of infiltrations.

1) Increase countdown for time c4s when placed on master control terminals

and/or

2) Specific warning of EMP attack, perhaps in the scheme of the C&C universe - have the eve interface display "lost communications with (insert building here)" but keep the functionality of the building intact.

The other controversial topic is obviously the scale of the ramjet changes. Heavy armor damage is miniscule but runs the risk of making the railgun/ion cannon obsolete. The infantry damage nerf will make the game enjoyable even if you lose your infantry building and the points potentially lost from not killing basic infantry is very miniscule. Damage to all light vehicles besides aircraft should remain the same. Keeping the damage to artillery vehicles enforces both teams to use all types of vehicles. If damage is decreased on the already health buffed air vehicles they will become even more overpowered for vehicle rushes. Orca rushes in particular always succeed due to their sheer burst damage. Here is what I propose:

1) Orcas/apaches lose a portion of their buffed health and/or ramjets remain effective against them.

2) Heavy armor damage scales with the distance of the target. For example, if the ramjet is out of the range of the railgun/ion cannon it will deal 20dmg. If within the range of the RG/IC, 30 dmg.

In order to draw more players, the game needs to be more enjoyable for individual players but still remain advantageous for teams who work together. Endlessly getting sniped inside your base or being stuck repairing a building because artillery is OP is not enjoyable.

[epicelite]

Ramjet needs damage falloff for noscoped shots, yes.

[TacTicToe]

Any news on a release date?

[SFJake]

Ramjet needs damage falloff for noscoped shots, yes.

If you have damage fall-off you don't make it "just for no-scope shots". Forcing a weapon to only work well with quick-scoping is nothing but annoying.

[DoctorB0NG]

The ramjet is already fairly nerfed in beta 4 with the damage decrease it got to infantry. The tracers are much harder to see now though.

[SFJake]

The tracers are much harder to see now though.

Not sure I like that though, but I have no idea why that was necessary. At least dying tells you where you died from now, apparently, so I won't have that ridiculous frustration.

[RoundShades]

The tracers are much harder to see now though.

Not sure I like that though, but I have no idea why that was necessary. At least dying tells you where you died from now, apparently, so I won't have that ridiculous frustration.

Lol, that update showing your angle of death completely pissed the Planetside2 community off. I am glad we are not them.

Also, the tracers were the only negative the Ramjet had to the 500. With no 1 hit kills, I don't see the necesity in the ramjet keeping that. It is a cosmetic choice either way at this point, not a necesary balance lever.

[boxes]

I remember a dev saying that in Beta 4, stealth will be colored red instead of white. Can anybody confirm this? I don't see it in the changelist.

[DoctorB0NG]

SBHs are the same.

[RoundShades]

SBHs are the same.

Wait, a dev did say they would be red, and that was particularly an important change as white maps make them invisible even if they were flickering their tongue against your neck, and red stands out on every background of map as well as emphasizes "this is a Nod unit".

[DoctorB0NG]

SBHs are the same.

Wait, a dev did say they would be red, and that was particularly an important change as white maps make them invisible even if they were flickering their tongue against your neck, and red stands out on every background of map as well as emphasizes "this is a Nod unit".

I can hop back on and check but I think they're the same as beta 3 as of right now. If there are any other beta 4 testers floating around, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[SFJake]

Really? Red SBH would just look goofy. We have only ONE white map.

[DoctorB0NG]

Really? Red SBH would just look goofy. We have only ONE white map.

We actually have 3 now. Also as I stated earlier, SBH are unchanged from beta 3.

[RypeL]

We reverted that decission and never implemented it. We have other visibility modifiers to make them more visible in white maps.

[RoundShades]

We reverted that decission and never implemented it. We have other visibility modifiers to make them more visible in white maps.

I slept on that when I read it, and I was wondering what encouraged your decision?

Would red be TOO easily seen? If so, you could always reduce the range.

If it weren't for ridiculous white maps, I would just say make the "visibility range" steeper, where 14 meters is completely invisible but 12 is completely visible and no range where it is a blur. Blurs are easy to see on field and just the effect on a teammate is near impossible to see on whiteout.

I am curious what is coming to fix this, I just hope it is a solid change.