SBH Nukes

[omega79]

What is the reasoning behind Hotwire and Mobius being able to detect stealth from farther away?

If GDI got a stealth unit via crate or whatever, would Tech and Mendoza be able to see it from farther away too?

The reason is that it was like that in classic renegade and it was good that way.

and your answer to the second question is yes.

That blue circle is too large, and that green circle is too small. They should meet each other somewhere in the middle for SBH's and nearly double the spotting range for stealth tanks.

The blue circle is has a larger diameter than the length of a medium tank, that is pretty far ... but still easy avoidable.

The green one has a radius that is like the length of a medium tank, thats very far ... but fairly avoidable.

Thats what it is all about ... make it more easy to see for gdi and make nod sbh more carefully but keep

the stealth advantage to nod cuz they still can avoid beeing seen.

The blue one could be smaller but sure the green one should not be bigger ...

For stanks it should be the same range ...

i mean, gdi is wandering around the map, so it will be very hard for stanks to get somewhere undetected if that radius would be bigger than the green one ... that would make stanks rediculus useless, specialy with their low speed and slower firerate they have now

and Tactix is absolutely right there!

[darksider282]

Too much over-exaggeration.

Most of the time, nukes are disarmed. People seem to conveniently forget that.

This is irrelevant. It doesn't matter how many nukes are disarmed. Nod only needs to get off 4 to win (or really, one or two, depending on the building hit, to castrate GDI). And at current SBH's are simply too hard to detect for the reasons already discussed (even excepting the original point about exploitariffic beacon placement.) Okay, you disarmed that one. And the next 10. But number 11 is the one that gets you. And that seems to be the way the game goes. It's not a matter of one humvee patrolling the base. In old Renegade, yes, but in Ren X SBH's can still infiltrate and drop beacons when the ENTIRE GDI team is on defense (usually due to losing the WF which prevents GDI from mounting an effective offense.) Hell, STANKS can usually slip in undetected, and help cover the nukes.

At the end of the game it doesn't matter if you disarmed 20 out of 24 nukes. You still lost.

There are a lot of factors, including an unskilled player base, that are contributing here. But there's no question that stealthed units are much harder to spot than they used to be. I know I've gotten away with things I never would have before.

[blspjnl]

Stanks are hard to spot, but it is already compensated by their lack of endurance and speed. Conclusion: Not overpowered at all, considering their price. Increase endurance/speed/weapon range proportional to its spotting range.

The SBH is a bit too stealthy for 400 credirts, this is a ''boss-type'' stealth if you ask me. If the price remains fixed, it should get a specific drawback(e.g. no sprint, because of a cloak that limits movement) at this spotting range.

[Tactix]

The SBH is a bit too stealthy for 400 credirts, this is a ''boss-type'' stealth if you ask me. If the price remains fixed, it should get a specific drawback(e.g. no sprint, because of a cloak that limits movement) at this spotting range.

Plus nuclear beacon, that's 1400 credits.

While you have to:

1. dodge frontline tanks and chaotic battles

2. manage to infiltrate enemy base (entrance mined? then your 1400 credits were a complete waste!)

3. plant nuke while not being seen

4. defend nuke from hordes of Hotwires and soldiers

They already have drawbacks. Their weapon is mediocre, only capable of killing oblivious stationary people that are standing still. The moment you uncloak to engage in a firefight, you become a priority target and every single GDI player in the vicinity can hear the distinct firing sound of your weapon. By removing their ability to sprint you render them even more useless. Good luck trying to hijack vehicles, and you won't have a chance to run away, or catch up to enemies. It seems you want them to be completely crippled, incapable of doing anything. It's like making the Spy in Team Fortress 2 as slow as the Heavy.

@darksider282:

Like you said yourself, alot of factors are at work here. If a nuke goes off, it could of been because it was covered by snipers or artillery fire. It doesn't mean SBH is overpowered, it simply means Nod is sieging and GDI has lost field control. If there was no pressure from outside, the nuke could of been easily disarmed.

So it isn't "OMG SBH IS OP plz nerf!" it simply meant Nod had the upper hand in the bigger scope of things.

This is a game of momentum and pressure. If a nuke is planted when there is alot of pressure on GDI (for example getting attacked by tanks from many sides) disarming it will be hard due to the lack of resources, engineers, or because you can't hear the nuke ticking sound due to the hectic chaos.

If there is no pressure then suddenly finding and disarming that nuke becomes much easier.

There are new players, so ofcourse sometimes nukes go off that would never happen in the original Renegade. Sometimes GDI is full of newbs, sometimes Nod is full of newbs, shit happens. This game is still young, the community and players still need to grow and become familiar with the meta. You can't just wildly make excusations and suggest nerfs/buffs based on a few cherrypicked situations.

there's no question that stealthed units are much harder to spot than they used to be.

Stanks are hard to spot

This is absolutely false. Stealth Tanks are easier to spot than in the original Renegade. They increased the spotting range since open beta 1. You can see them from a pretty long distance. As for the Stealth Black Hand, considering the nature of how fragile and non-contributing they tend to be, their stealth is fine.

If you can't see them when they are close, you must either be blind and should check your eyes, or turn off bloom/motion blur/lens flares/ambient occlusion or any other gimmick that reduces visibility and clutters your screen with filters.

[Chrifister]

Rainbow stealth effect is a scrub tactic and you should be ashamed of yourself. The shimmer of the SBH shouldn't be so obvious. That's a cheat that no one ever bothered to fix (because they exploited it) and only real problem I ever had with Renegade skins.

Hardly an improvement. Still had difficulty seeing them or my teammates against the white snow. Not sure what rainbow effect you're talking about but mine definitely wasn't an advantage. Neither was my pink mammy or dark green med tanks. Although the dark green was probably a bad idea because it was difficult to pick them out against the green grass.

That being said, invisibility is an incredible advantage so it needs to have downsides. That's why they uncloak to fire, shimmer when hit, and shimmer when too close to an enemy. They're meant to be stealthy and you should avoid enemies. If you get too close, you deserve to be seen, and killed. They're basically a character that can make it across the battlefield unseen with the power to destroy a building.

Personally, on maps without guard towers I feel stealth gives NOD too big of an advantage. On maps with at least the crappy guard towers, they're probably even. GDI needs to protect those guard towers or fear NOD's stealth.

I also think the SBH are too hard to see when they are close to you. The spotting range is fine. I do have almost everything turned off in my video settings.

[omega79]

Tactix is really hitting it

[ARC_trooper]

I think we should visit this topic again once most of the beacon placing bugs are solved? Because i think that's the biggest issue atm. Sure SBH can exploit the bugs more then other classes but on the other hand: This is how bugs are found! So they can be solved

[darksider282]

I think we should visit this topic again once most of the beacon placing bugs are solved? Because i think that's the biggest issue atm.

Agreed, and ultimately why I started this thread. The free destruction of the Weapons Factory could easily be the unbalancing factor.

[iovandrake]

Too much over-exaggeration.

Most of the time, nukes are disarmed. People seem to conveniently forget that.

In the rare occasion that a SBH manages to nuke a building (when both sides are even), it means that GDI was incompetent. You had a hole in your defence and Nod simply took advantage of that. If a chess player makes a bad move, the opponent punishes him.

People also underestimate actively patrolling and guarding the base. They just mine and then leave for the frontline, assuming someone else will take care of the base. In the end, nobody is actually defending the base and SBHs can just walk in. 1 Humvee driving around the base can make the life of an SBH hard.

On maps with automated base defences you can afford to not give a fuck, but on maps without them, it's pretty much a necessity for GDI to have dedicated base guards.

Get lazy, get nuked. It's that simple.

It doesn't have to succeed if it pins defenders to a particular building. Nukes can be used to distract defenders from other buildings. Easy nuke placements mean distracted GDI while Nod rarely has such issues. The worst Nod gets is a Hotty infiltration which you either know about and stop or lose a building to.

I personally do not think detection ranges need extended. The problem isn't with how far away you can see SBH. The problem is with SBH being shown off under certain conditions. If you can avoid those conditions PLUS defenders running around looking for you then you deserve to get a nuke or C4s off.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

There are a couple of spots (particularly, the Weapons Factory and Power Plant) where a beacon can be placed that is very difficult to disarm. These are places that it is difficult to get to physically

Soooooo... these spots you mention... are they real? Tell me the locations so I can look for them and confirm if they exist or not.

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Truxa]

There are a couple of spots (particularly, the Weapons Factory and Power Plant) where a beacon can be placed that is very difficult to disarm. These are places that it is difficult to get to physically

Soooooo... these spots you mention... are they real? Tell me the locations so I can look for them and confirm if they exist or not.

Pics or it didn't happen.

For WF: as SBH go to the top roof, jump off at the back and onto the 2nd roof. If done properly, a well placed beacon drops through the holes so engineers/hotwires need to do the same difficult jump within 50 seconds. Which is nigh-impossible.

For PP: run up to the roof, at the beginning of the roof, walk to the left side of the roof (the yellow colored bit) and around the PP untill you reach the last exhaust vent. Placing a beacon in that vent makes it impossible to reach from the ground AND roof! Unless you walk the same way as the SBH does, which makes you turn around and walk around again.

For Ref: Walk up on the roof. There is some sort of pillar at the front part of the roof that lets you stand on it. Placing the beacon there will make it drop behind the fence or through the roof, making it impossible to reach it with a repairgun.

If you cannot immagine these situations, you clearly haven't played Renegade X long enough. On TheMatrixRen server, these spots are banned from use. Anyone seen abusing these bugs (either by seeing the actual planting or building destruction by an unreachable beacon) will get a permanent IP ban. Which, in my opinion, is fair.

NOTE: for WF, running up the roof and placing it anywhere on top of the roof is not bugabusing and that beacon can be easily reached, yet needs a little time to search for it.

[omega79]

all is bugged placement, every single one ... not every where on the wf roof is legit!

the spot on WF you mention is not legit and bug abuse! ...

[darksider282]

The locations Truxa pointed out are really the purpose of this thread. These bugged locations make an SBH Nuke far more powerful than they were ever intended to be. I think until these spots are fixed any discussion on the balance of the SBH is probably premature. As was pointed out earlier, once these are fixed we can revisit the SBH discussion, if needed.

[Truxa]

There are a couple of spots (particularly, the Weapons Factory and Power Plant) where a beacon can be placed that is very difficult to disarm. These are places that it is difficult to get to physically

Soooooo... these spots you mention... are they real? Tell me the locations so I can look for them and confirm if they exist or not.

Pics or it didn't happen.

For WF: as SBH go to the top roof, jump off at the back and onto the 2nd roof. If done properly, a well placed beacon drops through the holes so engineers/hotwires need to do the same difficult jump within 50 seconds. Which is nigh-impossible.

For PP: run up to the roof, at the beginning of the roof, walk to the left side of the roof (the yellow colored bit) and around the PP untill you reach the last exhaust vent. Placing a beacon in that vent makes it impossible to reach from the ground AND roof! Unless you walk the same way as the SBH does, which makes you turn around and walk around again.

For Ref: Walk up on the roof. There is some sort of pillar at the front part of the roof that lets you stand on it. Placing the beacon there will make it drop behind the fence or through the roof, making it impossible to reach it with a repairgun.

If you cannot immagine these situations, you clearly haven't played Renegade X long enough. On TheMatrixRen server, these spots are banned from use. Anyone seen abusing these bugs (either by seeing the actual planting or building destruction by an unreachable beacon) will get a permanent IP ban. Which, in my opinion, is fair.

NOTE: for WF, running up the roof and placing it anywhere on top of the roof is not bugabusing and that beacon can be easily reached, yet needs a little time to search for it.

Ofcourse with my final NOTE i meant the fact that placing a beacon on the edge of the WF roof, the VERY TOP roof is not a bug. It's a matter of walking on a small ledge, whereas the other placements ARE bugs, because they are meant not to be able to be reached! (By the beacon placer that is)

GDI also has a few equally sneaky beacon placement locations by deliberately flying very high over a base and ejecting. using a parachute (press spacebar in mid-air) and placing it on top of the ref pillar! or some other gnasty spot never to be reached without parachuting out.

HON has such a location aswell.

[R315r4z0r]

I also want to point out that nukes aren't the only way a SBH can assert their excessive stealth capabilities. Get a team of 3+ SBHs (depending on how well the enemy mined their base). You get 3 timed C4s on an enemy structure and gameover. Use extra SBHs to sacrifice themselves to mined doors.

[Daxter]

Are not inherently overpowered. They play perfectly into Nod's general style of subterfuge. Since Nod lacks the vehicular punch of GDI, they are a vital asset on many maps.

However some questions about balance are raised by a couple of telling observations. I'd be curious to see some actual numbers to back this up, but I've noticed a couple of interesting things:

1) On maps with no base defenses, many players switch teams to Nod immediately on start. I feel like I don't see this on maps with base defenses.

2) On maps with no base defenses it seems like almost every building Nod destroys is with an SBH nuke. At the very least, the first building or two often goes down that way, which tips the balance to Nod's favor. The overwhelming (and successful) usage of a single tactic suggests to me that this tactic, while perhaps not unbalanced, needs to be examined thoroughly. I certainly don't remember this being the case in the old Renegade.

As I said above, I don't think this means they are necessarily overpowered. But, in a few cases, some quirks of map design lead them to being more powerful than they should be. There are a couple of spots (particularly, the Weapons Factory and Power Plant) where a beacon can be placed that is very difficult to disarm. These are places that it is difficult to get to physically. The SBH has the luxury of taking their time to get to these perfect spots, while the defenders do not. Too often I have seen 4 or 5 engineers/hotwires stare at a beacon as it counts down, unable to get to it. To me, that's a problem. An SBH nuke should be successful because of skill, timing, and coordination. Not being able to stick it in a hard to reach place.

Additionally, and this applies to both teams, some of the new maps (Gold Rush) have base layouts which are quite large, which makes it much harder to find and disarm a beacon within the time. Perhaps a longer timer on these maps is in order?

you are absolutely right at this.

in the old renegade it was much easier to find a sbh. the strange blue colour you see when you are near a sbh was much brighter than in the current game i think. also when you shot randomly in the air e.g. with an apc and you hit a sbh, it was kinda easy to see him afterwards /for a short time of course, but still). in the current one you dont see a shit...

last but not least: the mines were much more powerful in the old game, thats why in the old game you were able to mine the whole entrance and tunnel in the map "walls" e.g. to keep those sbhs out of ya base.

what i would like to have are imrpoved skins for warfare and barracks. wf: those edges on the roof have to be removed...

barracks: sbhs shouldnt be allowed to just simply jump upside down to the doors of the bar (you always have to mine both doors due to it,... with this crappy minelimit you have a huge disadvantage), maybe a small wall might help to keep em from jumping.

secondary; pp: sbhs tend to jump on the roof of pp balcony and then use nukes. it can be pretty difficult to get on the roof of the balcony to fucking disable it. maybe preventing them from going on the roof (not the balcony mind ya) would help the gdi a bit more fighting off those sbhs

also, just an idea though, what about auto-generated mines that defend our base? might be at least worth a try or? no more early rushes... no more tunnelrushes or so cause no one mined the tunnels... also it might ome in pretty handy to set up a message when those auto-mines are dissapearing...

to the 3+ sbhs with timed bombs: in the old renegade, a skilled group easily killed a building like this too... the only way to defend yourself from them is mining of course and patrolling with an apc shooting around like crazy...

Edited April 5, 2014 by Guest

[sam93931]

If I remember right, in the old renegade you were able to see the location of nuke/ion in your minimap which not the case in renx. Maybe they should correct that to balance the sbh_nuke (make you buy it 1000 isn't the way to do...). Also like in the first post, most of the time you lost your building not because of the ennemy skill but only because it's hard to find where it is... It's break the gameplay, that is all.

[Letty]

There are a couple of spots (particularly, the Weapons Factory and Power Plant) where a beacon can be placed that is very difficult to disarm. These are places that it is difficult to get to physically

Soooooo... these spots you mention... are they real? Tell me the locations so I can look for them and confirm if they exist or not.

Pics or it didn't happen.

For WF: as SBH go to the top roof, jump off at the back and onto the 2nd roof. If done properly, a well placed beacon drops through the holes so engineers/hotwires need to do the same difficult jump within 50 seconds. Which is nigh-impossible.

For PP: run up to the roof, at the beginning of the roof, walk to the left side of the roof (the yellow colored bit) and around the PP untill you reach the last exhaust vent. Placing a beacon in that vent makes it impossible to reach from the ground AND roof! Unless you walk the same way as the SBH does, which makes you turn around and walk around again.

For Ref: Walk up on the roof. There is some sort of pillar at the front part of the roof that lets you stand on it. Placing the beacon there will make it drop behind the fence or through the roof, making it impossible to reach it with a repairgun.

If you cannot immagine these situations, you clearly haven't played Renegade X long enough. On TheMatrixRen server, these spots are banned from use. Anyone seen abusing these bugs (either by seeing the actual planting or building destruction by an unreachable beacon) will get a permanent IP ban. Which, in my opinion, is fair.

NOTE: for WF, running up the roof and placing it anywhere on top of the roof is not bugabusing and that beacon can be easily reached, yet needs a little time to search for it.

Haha, what? Aside from dropping the beacon through the ref roof into the inaccessible zone (dropping behind the ref fence is still fine and easy to disarm) those are all totally legit spots. At most it takes a decent player an extra 2-3 seconds to find and disarm it. If you ban people simply for playing well you need to fuck off.

Actual problems are beacons literally undisarmable by engineers on foot (way too many people parachuting onto the PP/Ref/WF smokestacks and planing beacons that require an orca lift). Beacons that take longer to respond to are... the whole point of beaconing.

[omega79]

If I remember right, in the old renegade you were able to see the location of nuke/ion in your minimap which not the case in renx. Maybe they should correct that to balance the sbh_nuke (make you buy it 1000 isn't the way to do...). Also like in the first post, most of the time you lost your building not because of the ennemy skill but only because it's hard to find where it is... It's break the gameplay, that is all.

was never visible on the map, and thats good!

and what letty says is just not right ... i think all those spots will be fixed by the devs ...

that means they are bugs ... or at least unbalanced spots ...

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

There are a couple of spots (particularly, the Weapons Factory and Power Plant) where a beacon can be placed that is very difficult to disarm. These are places that it is difficult to get to physically

Soooooo... these spots you mention... are they real? Tell me the locations so I can look for them and confirm if they exist or not.

Pics or it didn't happen.

For WF: as SBH go to the top roof, jump off at the back and onto the 2nd roof. If done properly, a well placed beacon drops through the holes so engineers/hotwires need to do the same difficult jump within 50 seconds. Which is nigh-impossible.

For PP: run up to the roof, at the beginning of the roof, walk to the left side of the roof (the yellow colored bit) and around the PP untill you reach the last exhaust vent. Placing a beacon in that vent makes it impossible to reach from the ground AND roof! Unless you walk the same way as the SBH does, which makes you turn around and walk around again.

For Ref: Walk up on the roof. There is some sort of pillar at the front part of the roof that lets you stand on it. Placing the beacon there will make it drop behind the fence or through the roof, making it impossible to reach it with a repairgun.

If you cannot immagine these situations, you clearly haven't played Renegade X long enough. On TheMatrixRen server, these spots are banned from use. Anyone seen abusing these bugs (either by seeing the actual planting or building destruction by an unreachable beacon) will get a permanent IP ban. Which, in my opinion, is fair.

NOTE: for WF, running up the roof and placing it anywhere on top of the roof is not bugabusing and that beacon can be easily reached, yet needs a little time to search for it.

Excellent. Well thanks for being the first person ever to post exact information regarding these exploits. Your post should be pinned and displayed at front page news so everyone knows about these exploits.

I'm playing on Matrix server as much as possible now. Thank you.

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Dude, you asked for pictures of them. Don't go hating on someone else if you're just as much to blame.

[Truxa]

Dude, you asked for pictures of them. Don't go hating on someone else if you're just as much to blame.

I believe he means that he will play on TheMatrixRen server now as admins are ACTIVELY banning (temporary/permanent) abusers of these locations i mentioned. I doubt he'll be abusing it on that server. UNLESS ofcourse, his last post is totally sarcasm, in which case I do not care.

Playing MatrixRen server gives me great pleasure as those abusers are banned, making the game much more fun!

[XD_ERROR_XD]

Dude, you asked for pictures of them. Don't go hating on someone else if you're just as much to blame.

I believe he means that he will play on TheMatrixRen server now as admins are ACTIVELY banning (temporary/permanent) abusers of these locations i mentioned. I doubt he'll be abusing it on that server. UNLESS ofcourse, his last post is totally sarcasm, in which case I do not care.

Playing MatrixRen server gives me great pleasure as those abusers are banned, making the game much more fun!

i know... but still, if you're trying to be serious about a subject, it's pretty obvious you shouldn't make jokes about it.

[R315r4z0r]

I don't like servers that do that. Granted planting in those spots pisses more people off and could potentially make them stop playing, it also shows a sense of urgency to fix the issue. Banning players for doing that, to me, is like sweeping the problem under the rug.

If it's a problem, let it be a problem so that it can be fixed. Otherwise it's just going to be overlooked since no one is using those spots.

[SFJake]

Thats a bit silly. Who's telling us they're even going to fix all the bad spots? Players or servers take matters on to their own hands. Now I'd rather that not be any permanent banning and just finding some mutator that prevents it (not unlike the old Renegade, I know Jelly had something that prevented beacons in unfair places).

Servers sets rules when the game can't set them and thats perfectly, totally fine.

[Valor]

I wouldn't count on bans for beacon placements, I've never seen it happen despite many claims of glitched beacons. Unless a mod actually sees the beacon they likely won't ban, which means they'd have to be on the opposing team and at the right time and place. Plus there's no way to force disarm the beacon, so the match itself is still ruined.

[omega79]

yes i miss a command for mods or admins to dissarm a certain beacon from console ... like it was in classic renegade

[Truxa]

yes i miss a command for mods or admins to dissarm a certain beacon from console ... like it was in classic renegade

I'm no server admin, nor do I intend to be one or pretend to be one, but I tend to agree!

In the old ren(jelly server atleast), when a person is "beacon spamming" the server automatically excludes that person from buying/placing beacons whilst also disarming all their beacons currently counting down.

This is what is missing in ren x too, some people purpously spamming beacons to force a game-crash after failed votes to reset the map/change map.

Now this feature does not directly apply to beacon misplacing, but I feel that there is a similarity here, be it server settings or active admin commands.

Back on topic:

I agree that moderators do not "freely ban" people from servers as easy as logging on to the server, but after a series of reports about a single player abusing different sets of bugs (e.g. trying to buy orca's on non-flying maps; even though it fails, the player tries to abuse bugs or walking high up into the mountains, passed the GDI AGT (AGT still fires upon the player though) on Goldrush, eluding the normal path (which is mined))

I find it fair that frequent offenders should be warned and/or temp ban before perm banning them, because the pressence of bugs does not invite the abuse of bugs to win/screw a game!

A bug is a bug and should be reported without being abused! keep it fair and fun.

just a sidenote: I cannot think why people find it fun to "hack" a game (e.g. speedhack before it was fixed or aimbot) to win. It makes the game less appealing for future playing AND for the players who have been victimized by those "hacks"

[Daxter]

yes i miss a command for mods or admins to dissarm a certain beacon from console ... like it was in classic renegade

just a sidenote: I cannot think why people find it fun to "hack" a game (e.g. speedhack before it was fixed or aimbot) to win. It makes the game less appealing for future playing AND for the players who have been victimized by those "hacks"

only one of those damn hackers might tell you why they are doing it... maybe they love to screw others fun, or they just have a little wiener and therefore show with their hacks how "great" they are . a bit like a braggart driving an ultra expensive (and useless) sportscar in town..., wihout his sportscar he would be nothing ^^.

[epicelite]

Beacons should be viable on the radar once spotted by a friendly player, unless they are already I never thought about it before.

Just have spots that you simply cannot place a beacon, the game should say "Satellite unlink failed" and you get your beacon back.

[Daxter]

Beacons should be viable on the radar once spotted by a friendly player, unless they are already I never thought about it before.

Just have spots that you simply cannot place a beacon, the game should say "Satellite unlink failed" and you get your beacon back.

wow great idea (of both of you). that might actually solve the problem with the beacon bugs and makes it easier to find it.

[omega79]

thats far from a good idea

[SFJake]

Uh, yes it is a good idea.

Instead of needing people to be very organized, someone can spot it for their entire team quickly.

Its the same damn thing as actually telling everyone except you don't have to have everyone on teamspeak on a PUBLIC game to know about it.

[R315r4z0r]

-Friendly beacons should always appear on your minimap (beacons currently have no blip).

-Spotted enemy beacons should permenantly reveal it for your team until the beacon disappears (is disarmed/is detonated).

-One player should be unable to place multiple beacons. (This is to avoid the annoying EVA spam when someone has too many credits to burn. Plus there is no possible way that one single person can place two beacons in the enemy base in less than 10 seconds of each other.)

Thats a bit silly. Who's telling us they're even going to fix all the bad spots? Players or servers take matters on to their own hands. Now I'd rather that not be any permanent banning and just finding some mutator that prevents it (not unlike the old Renegade, I know Jelly had something that prevented beacons in unfair places).

Servers sets rules when the game can't set them and thats perfectly, totally fine.

The point is that if it's a problem that people do not like, then the devs are forced to fix it if they want to keep their player base. The more people who experience them, the louder the noise they will make and the more likely chance it will be fixed. If the problem spots exist, but no one uses them, that doesn't solve the problem. It just causes unnecessary bans and extra work for server owners/moderators.

[omega79]

Showing enemy beacons on the radar is really a bad idea ... i hope that never happens ...

or at least gets bound to a techbuilding ... else it is a horrible idea

[SFJake]

Showing enemy beacons on the radar is really a bad idea ... i hope that never happens ...

or at least gets bound to a techbuilding ... else it is a horrible idea

You're not getting it, and I'm not going to spell it out for you. Its obvious English isn't your first language, but you're not even hearing this right now.

[Truxa]

Showing enemy beacons on the radar is really a bad idea ... i hope that never happens ...

or at least gets bound to a techbuilding ... else it is a horrible idea

Since SFJake isn't pointing out your obvious lack of understanding, I will.

In R315r4z0r last post, he mentioned enemies SPOTTED beacons, as in, a FRIENDLY sees the beacon and presses "Q" to "SPOT" it. Then and only then the beacon will be shown in the minimap for its entire duration untill disarmed/explosion.

It is NOT a bad idea, as it will be coordinating your team better in a slightly more passive way besides using teamspeak/ventrilo/skype/directchat/IRC/whatever

For friendly beacons, this is also a great idea, because not everyone is using chat saying "I'm going to place my beacon at the enemy powerplant" "ok, so in that case i'll plant my beacon on top of the WF"

[omega79]

Maybe my spelling and grammar is not good ... but I understand very good!

BT:

I know that .. I did read and understand!

I am against this idea in general, no matter if a friendly did spot or not!

I repeat: I hope that never happens because it would be a desaster for the gameplay ...

and if (will be added), it should be at least bound to a building (Comcenter/Techbuilding)

Instead of needing people to be very organized, someone can spot it for their entire team quickly.

sorry but this statement is absolutely rediculus!

Like pointed out B4, the bugged locations must be fixed ... that is the real problem here ...

everything else is just fine ... no need to add a new mechanic that messes with the gameplay in such a heavy way!

[Truxa]

Maybe my spelling and grammar is not good ... but I understand very good!

BT:

I know that .. I did read and understand!

I am against this idea in general, no matter if a friendly did spot or not!

I repeat: I hope that never happens because it would be a desaster for the gameplay ...

and if (will be added), it should be at least bound to a building (Comcenter/Techbuilding)

Instead of needing people to be very organized, someone can spot it for their entire team quickly.

sorry but this statement is absolutely rediculus!

Like pointed out B4, the bugged locations must be fixed ... that is the real problem here ...

everything else is just fine ... no need to add a new mechanic that messes with the gameplay in such a heavy way!

So the fact that placing a beacon requires a bit more teamwork is bad? I think it's good! Instead of a single SBH sneaking into a base, placing the beacon and "trying" to defend it single handedly ... Think of it, is it a good thing that 4 SBHs on "Walls: Flying" map can single handedly destroy an entire base without the backup of anyone else?

I'm all for it for better teamplay, that's what's lacking atm, certainly for those like me, who do not have the time to commit to a clan to get that.

[ARC_trooper]

I do miss the fact that i cant "spot" a beacon, trust me i try I hit 'Q' in the hope someone will hear my silent voice!

Actually the sound is a big giveaway, making a small dot appear once a beacon gets spotted is no big "game killer" imo. People run off towards the sound anyway and like SFjake said its a public game and people arent joining TS and alike. So communicating is hard except for the magical 'Q' button.. This would add teamwork instead of ruining the game!

[omega79]

the only thing i miss is the global sound that plays once someone starts to plant a beacon ...

just as long as the progressbar needs to be filled while you plant ...

Spoting a beacon would make it impossible to defende it if gdi is defending good ... even with 10 sbh

Players already learned to defende ... it is much harder already to plant a beacon

the biggest problems are still the glichy beacons ... just let them sort this out and you see that spoting a beacon is not needed

[Truxa]

I'm not talking about an SBH team defending a beacon, SBHs suck at defending, they are too weak and do not pack that much of a punch. A team of SBHs might do it, but I feel more for a few vehicles backing you up, or an easy spot for snipers to shoot the engineers/hotwires from a distance (take "Walls: Flying" as an example)

Reaching a good location is one thing, defending another. Best way to defend a beacon? Get 2 SBHs tagteaming, when 1 does the other can continue anyway. Have a stank or 2 standing by to run in when the beacon is placed at the designated location and finally having 2 snipers standing by shooting from a distance. GDI is focussed on the beacon and SBH/stanks anyway, snipers should be fine.

6 people is all you need, but thats teamwork!

[Daxter]

the only thing i miss is the global sound that plays once someone starts to plant a beacon ...

just as long as the progressbar needs to be filled while you plant ...

Spoting a beacon would make it impossible to defend it if gdi is defending good ... even with 10 sbh

Players already learned to defend ... it is much harder already to plant a beacon

the biggest problems are still the glichy beacons ... just let them sort this out and you see that spoting a beacon is not needed

kinda interesting reading this... it shows that you think nod can only win by using sbhs with nukes... in the past game it wasnt like that. of course sbhs were used but only a few. mostly gdi got fucked by dozens of arties or a good old stank rush! now gdi gets fucked by dozens of sbhs... thanks to minelimits and weak mines itselfs... and now we want a little bit help against those OP sbhs and you guys are complaining already... (they are op right now cause of the minelimit we have and the weak mines as well as the kinda invisibility they have; in the past game they were a bit easier to spot!). im sure you use sbhs a lot dont ya?

PS: in the past game the sbhs sucked even morwe their weapon; the current sbh is pretty strong with its weapon i think...

[Valor]

Mine limit is the same as original, it's still up to the server overall though. 30-40 is the standard. Pretty sure the mines work the same way too. SBH weapon buff is due to pistol nerf.

[Truxa]

I feel the SBH does less damage, or just awekward damage compared to old ren.

Old ren SBH had 5 clips of 100 rounds with a steady 1-shot interval where as the Ren X SBH has less ammo per clip and a 3-shot-burst while feeling it doesnt do that much damage (unless shooting at the head)

But no, I do not think SBHs need a buff, I think they need a nerf in such a way that they are easier to spot.

It's been far too often I've spotted an SBH and lost track of him because of the sprint button, I cant sprint and shoot at the same time, so I lose the bastard!

Also, when I'm playing a SBH myself, I am amazed that people actually didn't see me sneaking past them! Like 5 yards away, rushing to an enemy soldier head-on, but the moment he turns around to shoot, he can't see me anymore

Stanks have their spotting ranged nerfed, I can see stanks from 3x as far as i can see an SBH.

I think stanks and SBH should "flicker" a bit when you hit them while stealthed, preverably jut a small red area where you hit, because the shots disrupt the cloak in that area

[omega79]

1. I do not think NOD (i do not care it is Nod ) only can win by Nukes, but it is a major part of NOD gameplay

2. Mines are not really weaker, only if you walk in mines they do slightly less damage, confirmed by DEVs (use search)

3. Minelimit was always in renegade, it is a fundamental game mechanic

4. searching a beacon is a major part of defense, and you need teamwork for that ... it already works with a decent team! At least on the Matrix server I have seen very good teamwork on both sides.

(Only the glich spots are a serious problem and hard to defuse even if found, spotting wont help there either)

what needs to be changed to polish the balance with SBH is:

(Global) Beacon planting sound that alerts the team already b4 the actual beacon is planted

(see/hear:

)

Stealth units need to flicker if they got hit by a projectile

Stealth units need to flicker in contact with Tiberium

Stealth units need to flicker if they take any damage

1K Characters have to have a higher range for seeing stealth units

Glichy spots you only can reach if you either follow 1 certain way to reach the 1 single spot to defuse or where you have to jump into non exitable areas, need to be removed

Glichy spots that are unbelieveable far away or behind far objects (damage through walls/objects) need to be fixed

Glichy spots where you simply not can see the beacon, therefore not be able to disarm it, need to be fixed

after those changes are done it will be like in classic renegade, and you will see it plays a lot smoother then ...

[itjo4u934875]

(i know my english is not good )

1) I think the "Q" function should be removed. It makes it to easy to say where the nuke is. In old Renegade you had to know the commands ctrl + alt + number. Many people didnt know that and this separates pros from noobs (Its also too easy to say repair building "x" if someone attacks it with tanks or c4)

Now the half GDI team comes do disarm nukes or repair buildings...

2) Engi disarms it to slow and hotti to fast. The remote c4 hurts to much in combination with sprint.

3) Even if Nod plants 3 nukes at the same time they are often disarmed (on 30-40 player servers / old Renegade at least one did it)

4) Stealth effect should be light red so people can see them better. Mobi and hotti should NOT see them from far away - i personally hate that 0 skill fuc*in campers which cant play tanks and camp inside their base.

5) And nuke should be disarmable till 0 seconds (so 10 seconds less time - that makes it more exciting).

3.....2.....1 nuke has been disarmed or multikill/ultrakill

6) Other things that should be changed: Medium Tank should have longer range (20 - 30%). Stank should be easier to play (old renegade had nearly flat ground it was not that hard to hit a target with stanks if someone is in front of you). APCs with more HPs or better armor vs humvees/rocket soldiers. Tanks should be able to hit apaches/orcas if they fly over them (not 100% over them, but more than now). Apaches/orcas need better armor vs snipers/rocket soldiers. Autoaim of rocket soldiers and mrls should be weaker. Mc Fartland needs a new name and weaker bullets.

[Daxter]

huh i can actually kill much better with the current weapon of the sbh than with the old one...maybe thats a matter of taste.

but nukes and being the major gameplay of nod isnt really true... it is in the current renegade x but it wasnt in the old one. but maybe i played other maps than you guys... i was on the mpf server with those great experimental maps... like islands with obby and agt and so on . sbhs werent that powerful there (thankfully) and were mostly used to steal tanks. and no nod didnt have any disadvantages there even without powerful sbhs, and it actually made the most fun playing such maps.

but right now we have perfect sbh maps in the current game... i can only say whiteout... impossible to do anything(!) at all against those sbhs.

to truxa: i totally agree with the rest of your part . i also always lose track off them cause i cant run AND shoot at the same time... also they are soooo fucking hard to see... the old game helped more to track down a sbh... (e.g. shooting around with apc and so on; doesnt work on renegade x anymore 'cause even when you hit em you wont see em...).

[omega79]

okay i stop here ... people do not understand that the game is only in beta ... that there is a lot polish to come ...

lets talk about this if the the stealth part of the game is finished or at least a bit more tweaked ...

not ask devs to put something in that needs new code and balance if the current system is far from beeing finished

[R315r4z0r]

Spoting a beacon would make it impossible to defende it if gdi is defending good ... even with 10 sbh

Players already learned to defende ... it is much harder already to plant a beacon

I don't see how it would make it any harder to defend a beacon you plant or make it easier to disarm a beacon an enemy plants.

When you find a beacon, the first thing any half decent player does is report to their team. They do it in one of two ways. First, they type 2-3 letters in chat depending on the building to alert their team. That takes about a second. Second, they spam the Q button on the building it's planted at... which takes less than a second.

So it makes absolutely no difference what so ever for the gameplay if you can spot a beacon for your team.

It promotes teamwork and helps communication in public games.