darksider282

The locations Truxa pointed out are really the purpose of this thread. These bugged locations make an SBH Nuke far more powerful than they were ever intended to be. I think until these spots are fixed any discussion on the balance of the SBH is probably premature. As was pointed out earlier, once these are fixed we can revisit the SBH discussion, if needed.

Agreed, and ultimately why I started this thread. The free destruction of the Weapons Factory could easily be the unbalancing factor.

This is irrelevant. It doesn't matter how many nukes are disarmed. Nod only needs to get off 4 to win (or really, one or two, depending on the building hit, to castrate GDI). And at current SBH's are simply too hard to detect for the reasons already discussed (even excepting the original point about exploitariffic beacon placement.) Okay, you disarmed that one. And the next 10. But number 11 is the one that gets you. And that seems to be the way the game goes. It's not a matter of one humvee patrolling the base. In old Renegade, yes, but in Ren X SBH's can still infiltrate and drop beacons when the ENTIRE GDI team is on defense (usually due to losing the WF which prevents GDI from mounting an effective offense.) Hell, STANKS can usually slip in undetected, and help cover the nukes. At the end of the game it doesn't matter if you disarmed 20 out of 24 nukes. You still lost. There are a lot of factors, including an unskilled player base, that are contributing here. But there's no question that stealthed units are much harder to spot than they used to be. I know I've gotten away with things I never would have before.

We got along just fine with VOIP for how many years? About the only point I agree with is on defending against the beacons, as when there's a beacon down you really can't take the time to type it out sometimes. But there are alternatives, as proposed above. In the old days if you got a warning of an enemy beacon, followed by someone hitting "Defend the Powerplant" a few times, you knew what it meant. Maybe it's just me, but I'm finding people spamming the "Defend the X" button when the building has taken 2% damage from a guy on the hill with a rifle, and find myself disregarding the messages more often than not (cry wolf anyone?) That said, this is something that will hopefully improve as people get more experienced. Also, in old Ren there was a button you could press to instantly see the status of all buildings on both teams. Does that still exist?

I guess I'm not sure what the purpose is here. I feel like you accommodate different play styles with different vehicles, not allow for different options within the same vehicle.

While they are supposed to be stealthy, being detected should mean actually, oh I dunno, being detected maybe. That means making the shimmer more obvious. I wouldn't want to increase the range or have detection be affected by class (though I like the idea of adding a shimmer when sprinting or jumping, not to mention the old fashioned damage shimmer) but with the current shimmer effect it doesn't matter on bright maps. All those arguing that the shimmer is fine because they are stealth units and are supposed to be hard to see, well you're supposed to also act stealthy. You shouldn't be able to get away with moving close to enemy units or taking damage, and once you're spotted it should require great skill or luck to get away safe. Just like the old days.

Agree completely. Stanks are not front line vehicles. There is a time and place. And while they do feel more fragile than they used to, I find that, used for flanking and harassment, they are still quite effective. But I would agree that the rockets are a tad too squirrelly. All too often my first shot doesn't go close to where I intended.

I'm with Boinkness. I'm just glad to be back in the game. Thanks a bunch to the devs for making this happen! I would say my favorite moments have been stealing vehicles. Fresh player base that doesn't properly fear SBHs...I haven't stolen this many vehicles since the early days of Ren. Real simple folks: DON'T EVER GET OUT OF YOUR VEHICLE. It's better to lose it than give it to the other team. I stole 3 tanks in one game earlier today.

It could just be as simple as the ledges. Especially on a map like Whiteout, once GDI loses the WF it's very hard to ever get back on the offensive. Eliminate this one oversight, and perhaps balance will be restored. I agree with your point about a good defense, and that's always been part of the game. I just found myself frustrated after watching a good defense end in 5 engineers staring at a beacon they couldn't reach.

They did always nuke a lot, yes, but it wasn't the *only* tactic being used. I remember plenty of games on those maps ending in Flame Rushes or Stank Rushes or what have you. I feel like the proportion has shifted to where SBH nukes are pretty much the only thing being used. Case in point: they'll try rush after rush after rush until GDI is ahead on points, but they still keep going with it rather than try something else. In the old days, handing that many points to GDI for disarming the beacons would get you flamed off the server.

Are not inherently overpowered. They play perfectly into Nod's general style of subterfuge. Since Nod lacks the vehicular punch of GDI, they are a vital asset on many maps. However some questions about balance are raised by a couple of telling observations. I'd be curious to see some actual numbers to back this up, but I've noticed a couple of interesting things: 1) On maps with no base defenses, many players switch teams to Nod immediately on start. I feel like I don't see this on maps with base defenses. 2) On maps with no base defenses it seems like almost every building Nod destroys is with an SBH nuke. At the very least, the first building or two often goes down that way, which tips the balance to Nod's favor. The overwhelming (and successful) usage of a single tactic suggests to me that this tactic, while perhaps not unbalanced, needs to be examined thoroughly. I certainly don't remember this being the case in the old Renegade. As I said above, I don't think this means they are necessarily overpowered. But, in a few cases, some quirks of map design lead them to being more powerful than they should be. There are a couple of spots (particularly, the Weapons Factory and Power Plant) where a beacon can be placed that is very difficult to disarm. These are places that it is difficult to get to physically. The SBH has the luxury of taking their time to get to these perfect spots, while the defenders do not. Too often I have seen 4 or 5 engineers/hotwires stare at a beacon as it counts down, unable to get to it. To me, that's a problem. An SBH nuke should be successful because of skill, timing, and coordination. Not being able to stick it in a hard to reach place. Additionally, and this applies to both teams, some of the new maps (Gold Rush) have base layouts which are quite large, which makes it much harder to find and disarm a beacon within the time. Perhaps a longer timer on these maps is in order?