sterps

I believe the only thing that needs to be changed with sbh and stanks is the distance at which infantry and vehicles see them. In Renegade you could definitely spot stealth units from further away. I have had games in renegade x on walls and whiteout where I led 7 stanks into their base passing right next to 5 vehicles in different locations along the way to the GDI's base. Not one stank was spotted. We killed the entire base. Sbh are even easier to evade detection, I can run right past enemy inffantry and not get spotted sometimes. In renegade stealth units were more careful to not get spotted. If this was amended I think the situation would improve. That being said, nothing else needs to change about sbh, nuking was the same in ren. And valor for the last time, artys have not been nerfed. The arch is a characteristic of artillery, after all artillery is an indirect method of firepower. Renegade contradicted this and contributed to them being OP

lol fixed

The arty has not been nerfed. Have you been using at all? Especially since the new patch, it's pretty much a point and clicker again.

who is TC? Airstrikes are crap now, and are not worth the $800

Fjords on Renegade X would be awesome. The version on the original Renegade was my favourite map for many reasons. C&C style balance is perfectly viable in fps. Like the original poster, there are actually many differences between Tiberian Dawn and Renegade.

I agree with this

Hi guys, I'm sure you're already aware of this issue, but people seem to be exploiting this issue now. On a few occasions i've found when i've been either a Medium or Mammoth tank, i've had a light tank or stealth tank drive underneath me. From this position, they can fire and damage me, but i cannot damage them, because they're underneath.

I agree with this. So far i've noticed that character crates cause you to die And i've had one crash so far, right as the game ended

If you're wanting to go with whole railway running through the middle of the map idea, maybe you should include a goods yard. This could include a couple of sidings, maybe a few freight or flat bed wagons, a platform and a crane used for loading. It would also give you a good reason to use those signal props.

Also please stop trying to degrade this thread with your rubbish images. stop polluting the game with troll posts then and I might consider it. also Hate, saying "nerfed in several ways" isnt really saying an awful lot about in what ways those are, so while it is a welcome notion its meaningless. also Savas please go back to call of duty, your post made my eyes bleed. without any planning, skill or team work you think its great to be able to blow up the entire attacking force with 1 move because you are just so bad at the game you cant figure out how to break a seige. its disgusting, and exactly what Renegade doesnt need. Clearly, you're the only one trying to troll.

While i completely agree with your reasons on my they are a great addition, i still think they need to be nerfed some what. $700 is too little to pay for such an awesome power. Apparently they've nerfed them in a few ways, hopefully in a more balanced way...but we just have to wait and see.

Actually Yes, in timed AOW it is the case. There is plenty of truth to $2500 being too much. Also please stop trying to degrade this thread with your rubbish images. We'll just have to wait to see what the changes are, will be interesting to see.

The game went from 700 to less than a 100 playing at peak times in the US, so I'd say the game effectively died already, but whatever. General consensus is there's almost nobody posting on this forum, and in game players still whine about the airstrikes on servers. I've had people on Jelly vote against airstrikes. On Jelly, with their 2500 cost. Pretty much nobody answered my question: What do airstrikes add to the game? We get crap like "it fits tiberian dawn". I don't give a damn, thats bordreline the most useless kind of thing we can say. Airstrikes break key elements of the game right now and thats hardly an opinion, thats a fact. Beacon covered by airstrikes and airstrikes that sneakily destroys vehicle is utterly game breaking. Thats a fact. They've been added to break sieges, and even then shouldn't be able to kill them, its just to force them to push back, give a breathing period and a chance for vehicles to advance. Period. It is the ONLY THING they should be good at, make enemies abandon a specific spot, and that spot should also NEVER be in base. Not based on SAM sites or anything -> never, ever. That is utterly game breaking. Give me one reason why blowing things up, denying a huge zone in the enemy base from defense, all of that at a huge distance, all taht done with a single click, is good for the gameplay. The key here, is that its not. So once nobody can answer what it adds to the gameplay (because like I said, it adds NOTHING good to the gameplay, fact, beyond breaking formations), we want it changed for it to only be good at that. As suggested, again: -No airstrikes above & around any base, ever. -Obvious airstrike markers (there's good ideas around, like the smoke-thing), should be as hard to miss as a beacon as far as I'm concerned These are the base, necessary changes for the airstrikes to not break the game. You think I'm not constructive? I'm sure angry, not hiding that, but there's been nothing, ever said by anyone, that even points that airstrikes are good for gameplay as they are, for ANTYHING else but what I just said. So lets stop pretending here. The game went from higher amount of players to a lower amount because: a) people checking out the mod after a lot of publicity, some stayed, some went. b) hackers c) bugs, like game crashing after each map. ( There is also feedback reflecting b,c in a thread i read earlier) I don't see people whining except you, no one is whining on the Jelly forums either. People have answered your question multiple times with responses, so either your not reading them or you're just ignoring them. Considering you are saying 'you don't give a damn' to some peoples reasons, i'm thinking the latter. And also considering your response to Ivan, i'd say you don't like it that people aren't accepting your whinging. Eat some concrete and harden fudge up Aside from all that, wait till you have good snipers around, the amount of deployed airstrikes will decrease. The game is still changing as people get used to defending, attacking, scouting and just get used to the feel of the game and it's units and characters.

Jake all you seem to do is whine and moan... For once maybe post something more constructive. If airstrikes are as OP and game breaking as you say they are, then the forums should be flooded with complaints, and the game would be dead in no time. Why am i yet to see it? I understand there have a been a couple of threads, but nothing to the extent at which you say, and were in the first week. The fact of the matter is, that the general consensus seems to be that people like airstrikes but agree they need to be balanced a bit. I'm yet to see spamming of airstrikes to the effect they ruin games as you describe, nor to the extent that people just do because they've got nothing else to build. Trev and razor both summed it up well, and i agree with both. Did you ever play the original Renegade? Were you ever in those games where Nod would camp at the front of GDI's base for hours on end with artilleries...GDI not being able to break through...I'd have killed to have had an airstrike ability back then. There are more game breaking things such as hackers, and glitchy beacon spots when placed that cannot be disarmed.

I don't mind Gold rush, all it needs at the moment is some balancing out. Guard towers need to be improved, they suck like nod turrets did in Renegade. and the agt needs to be moved where in can cover more of the base, possibly move the refinery from where it is, to the left side of the WF. That way the AGT will have a direct line of fire to the Barracks and Power plant.

Agreed It's also one of the reasons i don't play in Jelly either at the moment. $2500 is too overpriced for an airstrike. Anywhere between $1000 - $1200 would be about right, $1500 being maximum, and possibly a team cool down of 1 minute. Can anyone confirm that airstrike spam is even occurring anymore? I frequently play in Game.on.net and Rencorner, and in the former they still only cost $700, yet they aren't used too often (a couple of times a game, if that, sometimes not at all).

Some servers run it with 2500$ and its a HECK of a lot more fun. If there's a siege, break it. Don't go buy an I-win button, nevermind spamming it in the chaos and I eventually just get hit because oh look, that time I just never heard it, how fun. Or I just arrive somewhere without any idea and boom, I die 'cause airstrike was aimed there apparently. 1000$ down the drain or some such. This kind of crap is what I'm trying to avoid. Airstrike is an excuse to not have people work together, it utterly kills beacon fight when someone uses it (why have an intense stand off, just call airstrikes, you'll win), it single handedly breaks siege and screw people over. Oh yeah, great mechanic. I don't want it nerfed, I want it gone. Atmosphere? Sure, it adds atmosphere. Never was the point of Renegade, though. I'm in for the gameplay. And airstrikes ruins everything it touches. I rarely see something that makes me say "uuughh... really..." in Renegade, but airstrike is that pretty much everytime. Oh hey, incredibly epic moment incomin... nevermind airstrikes. The annoucements are pretty clear, i'm not sure how you miss hearing it and It's your own fault if you run into an area that's being bombed and die. Sometimes there are situations where it's harder to break a siege than other times. Whether that be because of losing a building or what not, airstrikes help in these respects, as to avoid situations in the original Renegade where people would just give up when say the WF/AS is dead. As for teamwork, i've been in plenty of situations where an airstrike has been deployed in great coordination with team members. Airstrikes don't make players not participate in team play, players choose not too. If anything SBH's dissuade players from participating in team play through constant spam or players just point whoring with tanks, which can skew the results of games. I also don't think a team should be able to camp/siege a base for an entire game without consequence. The airstrike counters a teams ability to camp and point whore for too long. Like i said, i never see people spamming airstrikes, and I play across a few servers. I understand you dislike them, but if everyone had the same mentality 'oh lets just get rid of them', then frankly what would be left of the game? All they might need is some balancing, and people are still learning the mechanics and teamplay aspects of this game. Atmosphere enhances game play in a game... Maybe you're confused with what game play is? Another thing to remember, this isn't a direct remake of Renegade. Things are going to be a little different in some respects.

Airstrikes should NOT be removed, they add to C&C atmosphere of the game. They also make the game more dynamic and are an excellent addition. I can't stress enough, how the games would pan out in Original Renegade. Siege's that lasted hours...Nod siege's being unbelievably hard to break. Now imagine if airstrike's were in the original Renegade. This situation would've occurred so much less. I'm still yet to see them used in an OP manner, maybe it's just the servers i play on. I think people need to listen for the enemy EVA announcement of 'airstrike on route', if they're in a large grouping of units, put 2 and 2 together and scatter from the area. More often than not, you will dodge an airstrike. If they are to changed i think a price increase is all that is needed, maybe a cool down timer after use. But not too expensive, if they were made $2500, i would expect them to strike immediately. Imagine spending $2500 every time you purchase an airstrike and have only a 25% hit rate. More often than not, your airstrikes miss. No one will buy them, and that shouldn't be idea when trying to nerf them.

Area of denial... this defeats the purpose of an airstrike. You're already given a warning that an airstrike is imminent, and all tanks have enough time to get away from the area of effect, given they heed the warning.

Problem is MRL got buffed and Arty got nerfed. A lot of issues really. Grendiers got buffed and Flamethrowers stayed crappy like the original. Nod is very underpowered atm since things like tunnel nuking are gone and it's incredibly difficult for Nod to nuke structures anymore if base defenses are up. Mammoth is the new Med tank. Raveshaw has really long cooldowns now on his shots and a reload every 4 shots. Also his damage feels really bad. GDI was never bad in the original, but now it just feels terrible playing Nod or playing against them. Nod feels like the underdog in a game with only 2 factions. They need a lot of tweaks if GDI is going to stay as is. Again, MLRS got a buff because they were inferior to the artillery in Renegade. Grenadier's needed a buff because they were laughable in Renegade. I'll have to check the flame throwers out more, though they are definitely not as crap as they were in Ren. I'm inclined to say maybe the light tank needs a buff of some sort, maybe faster, or a higher rate of fire. Tunnel nuking was not intended to be apart of game play in Ren, but was a side effect of the way beacons worked in W3D. Nod shouldn't have an easier time using beacons than GDI, they already have SBH. I'm not sure about raveshaw's damage, but at the moment, Raveshaw and Sydney are capable of fast swapping their main guns during reload which make them lethal for taking down tanks. This might be why someone said they think Sydney is better. GDI were UP in vanilla renegade, compared to Nod. Going by the stats on Jelly server, there was only 1 or 2 maps where GDI won more on average than Nod. Field, city and hourglass were horrendous to play on as GDI. The artillery made Nod too powerful in vanilla ren.

Like i said, Airstrikes probably just need a price increase... i fair increase. but not too high. Think about it, an airstrike is capable of blowing up to a few thousand dollars worth of units, but on the flip side get absolutely nothing as well, making them a waste of money for the purchaser. I know as soon as i hear the enemy EVA say 'airstrike on route', and i'm apart of a grouping of tanks or units, i put two and two together and fall back. 99% of time i'm right. I think people need to make this connection as well. Airstrikes in my opinion are perfect tool for breaking base sieges.... think about all those under and field games.... I can say i've played all maps many times over, as both GDI and Nod, and i would have to say the only base defense map that GDI win more than Nod is Field. Goldrush and Mesa II is won more by Nod. I still think people that have come over from Renegade are too used to using the Artillery as a main battle tank when it's (and always was meant to be) a support unit. The light tank and flame tank should be used as main battle tank with stanks and arties as support.

How was raveshaw nerfed? If you want an un-nerfed artillery, go and play the original renegade, where you can just point whore, and as long as you have a techie or two behind you, absolutely dominate every single thing in the game from across the map for $450... It was never fun being GDI in these cases, most maps favoured Nod just because of the arty. There's a reason why it was changed in Rengade X, and that is because the arty was OP in Renegade. As for the airstrikes, i think it's Rencorner that has the $1500 airstrikes, almost no one buys them. I think a price increase for the airstrike is all that may be needed.

I honestly don't see how the SSM launcher would play out differently than say the MLRS. If you took the MLRS chassis and put two rotating honest john missiles on the back instead of the missile launcher. That's exactly how it was in tiberian dawn. Tell me how this would play out poorly? If anything it would make Nod more diverse. Also to say that Westwood excluded this from game play because how it plays out is a big assumption. I would be more inclined to think it was due to the time constraints on the development of the game. A LOT of things were rushed for a release while much was left incomplete.

Airstrike for sure, techinician's repairing an arty and if they're very close like on field, multiple flame tanks for sure. I've taken out 2 mammoths with one flamer before and still survived.

No wonder i was being shot at on Mesa II, and it looked like rockets where appearing to shoot from nothing. People must have been doing this