GatsuFox

So instead of answering my question you're trying to attack me? First off I can use the scope, doh. I'm like one of the best snipers in the game. Second off I think you mean CQC not CQB (what does that even mean dude), and it IS highly effected by the spread change. Getting a close shot at the head then it magically turns into a headshot IS NOT a good thing. It's not. It's rewarding bad aim. Also aiming FOR a headshot and missing because the spread says you don't get it is ALSO poor game design. How can you not see this? I am literally baffled anyone can defend this mechanics change when its 100% negative towards the gameplay. It makes no sense and I still have no answer to my question.

Scope vs unscope is subjective in terms of advantages. Scoping gives a constant higher accuracy while sniping while unscoped combat allows for dodging and awareness as a trade off of less accuracy. Which one is better is highly situational. Completely subjective in terms of "overall" better. I should know I am a pretty good guy in this game. Adding hip spread now adds a roulette wheel into the equation. Now answer my question. Why is the roulette wheel in gameplay a good idea when peoples credits are on the line? Let me rephrase: Do we want players to use their credits to the best of their abilities or do we want to gamble with the credits and have an arbitrary random element determine our fate with these credits? I still have no answer. Instead of giving you a fill in the blank now I've given you a multiple choice question.

There was no argument on those posts into why RNG spread is a good idea for snipers. Learn to read, CWC. All I see is that snipers are overpowered, which is true. We all know that. Nobody is saying why having hip spread is a GOOD idea.

I'm still waiting on a reason why "RNG" hipfire with the sniper rifles is a good idea. Nobody has provided ANY reasoning why it would be a good idea yet all I keep reading is "it's just a little bit". I am still waiting. Why do the devs want to put random spread on everything in this game? What's next, random spread obelisks? Does this mean I might see SBH snipers on Tmx or EKT? Nobody should want that. Not even devs So ya we actually havent thought about that thus far but now that you mentioned it we sure will add something against that. Also we currently want the weapondrop option to not solely drop weapons. It can drop a 25% ammo resupply or a 50hp armor or health resupply (like the ones you can pick up in Black Dawn). So you can either get a weapon OR a resupply item OR nothing at all. Im personally not sure about ammo etc resupplys beeing dropped but if we will keep it will depend on your feedback. Weapon drops sound ok if and only if we get proper weapon bindings. However, supply drops sound amazing (I even had a thread about it). God damn do supply drops sound amazing. Will they make the original sound they made in Renegade's single player?

I like the maps a lot and think every other class and vehicle is balanced around them pretty well, the problem are the snipers. Bad suggestion. There are plenty of third party programs and monitors that will add a crosshair to the screen and it will give people who don't have or use these augments a large advantage. The tiny spread we are talking about will mean nothing, nothing at all, at close range. Advanced movement techniques =/= how hard it is to hit someone in the game. This game has almost no slip and no punishment from changing movement directions. Dodging left and right is very powerful in this game, especially compared to a tactical shooter like BF4 and COD. The reason people don't complain about RNG hip fire in those games is because it's EASY to hit people by using the sights and people die in 2 hits. You don't need any skill in BF or COD to land kills, trust me I play COD4 all the time and the way people aim in that game and kill me even when I'm dolphin diving and dancing everywhere, even doing random circle jumps against campers, its just ludicrous how they don't even have to TRACK or anything, just "aim" and spray in my general direction and kill me. Is this what we want when our in-game credits are on the line? Random deaths? Infact now that you mention it another thing that makes snipers broken in this game is by the developers design to have players slow down to a crawl after jumping and sometimes after sprinting long distances. What the hell? Who thought this was a good idea...

Well, I am pretty biased since I hate snipers in every single multiplayer game (I guess Sniper Elite doesn't count haha) and since C&C Renegade and BF Vietnam I've always, in every single MP game, as much as possible played on servers that have snipers disabled or on auto-kick. Actually not the class itself but the rifles, e.g. in BF3 you can still play as recon if you use weapons like the AS VAL. But my main problem with RenX is just getting one shot killed in any way or form when you just bought a 250+ HP unit. I don't mind a Havoc doing up to 230 HP damage headshot damage on any unit, but anything more than that just seems ridiculous to me and makes me not want to play the game at all whenever I get 1 shot killed in the GDI base as a Patch (it happens frequently on Walls). I hate it. Especially with hitscan it can make the game unplayable and utterly frustrating. What Jake said is true, we don't always need compensation. However, with the huge dmg nerf I'm talking/dreaming about, I'd also greatly reduce the money cost to 450 and 800 of the sniper classes. Unfortunately the community for RenX is relatively small and there are no "no sniper rifles" servers, so I have to vent my opinion here, even if it does negatively affect players that love to play snipers. The only reason why sniper rifles are broken right now is from headshot damage. Headshot multipliers need to be dropped to 2x, not 5x. 100 -> 200hs and 150 -> 300hs. This is a suggestion for balance, proper balance. EDIT: I'll give a brief reason why this change would be good. Right now it's extremely difficult to repair vehicle sieges/rushes because of 500 sniper classes that easily pick off the 350 tech/hotties. One headshot (easy even for a mediocre sniper) and it's 50 free points + no more healing. The whole course of a battle should not be changed with just one shot from one player. It should take atleast 2 shots to kill a tech/hottie which would give a chance for them to reposition them selves, find cover, and maybe even heal. This would also give a bigger reason to infiltrate behind enemy lines with other classes to kill the healers since the snipers would not be so reliable. Also there's just so much angle pressure from 500 snipers right now when people invest in a 1k class. A 500 class should not counter 1k classes so easily.

No. Just no. Quickscoping is just a gimmick to get around bad game mechanics in EVERY game it is in. You are decreasing skill because there is now a dice roll when you shoot a weapon. If two snipers go at it and one attempts a quickscope and misses and the other is flailing around and shoots at the body (neck) and the magic RNG shoves the bullet into the head of his opponent then you're saying there's an increase of skill here? How about proper punishment? Was there a proper punishment in this engagement when the random shot hit someone's head? The quickscoper misses his shot, you can say there was a -lack- of skill here. But the guy who hits the (literally) random headshot, do you say that this guy is lucky or has real talent? This is why many Quake, UT, and Tribes players just laugh at "pro" counter strike players. It's such a stupid mechanic. Also one other point. I very rarely scope. I play this game pretty much like I play UT, Tribes, and Quake and it has worked well for me thus far. However, now you're changing my play-style without any argument to back it up. You have nothing and we've given you MANY arguments, many examples, many counter examples and yet we're pretty much being ignored. Even if I'm just one person, you're going to kill my gameplay. I didn't want to bring up the victim card but my hand is being forced. Go ahead and try out the RNG nonsense in your BETA servers but I will be extremely upset if it makes it into the actual patch. When you have the TOP PLAYERS in your game complain about an upcoming change, I think you should look into it more. This is NOT a balance change, this is a MECHANICS change. Just question your self more. Is this a -good- change in an arcade based shooter?

First off, infiltrating with a 1k SNIPER is already extremely powerful. It's probably the best way to take a building since you can cause a lot of -havoc- inside the building and everyone has to stop repairing or they'll die extremely quickly. I should know I do it all the time. I can't wait to infiltrate with 2 timed c4's and a carbine + ramjet, I'll be unstoppable. Second off, the part that I put in bold is a contradiction to the concept of RANDOM SPREAD. You said it your self this is an arcade game and if you're hoping to increase the "skill" in this game then DO NOT HAVE random spread on the sniper rifles/PIC/single shot weapons. having a machine roll dice =/= skill. We don't need to play roulette and poker at the same time. If you don't get that analogy let me explain: Roulette would refer to the RNG spread of weapons (damage spread included, but this game doesn't have that) while the poker game would be the mind-set of bluffing and knowing when to play your cards (skill). I bet this will be ignored too. What ever. If the developers don't want to listen to an ass (but an ass who is right) like me then atleast listen to Bananas, he's the best player in the game.

I don't scope. I played too much Quakelive so I can't scope and hit accurately. This nerf is HUGE for me and maybe some similar players. Just what the fuck brah.

For the love of god please don't add random spread to SNIPER RIFLES in hip fire. The fuck is hip fire in an arcade shooter anyways. Come on. Havoc don't do this. I have a huge thread already why RNG spread is bad. Did nobody on the dev team read it? I guess I'm not surprised. 0 spread. 0 fucking spread. Normalize shotgun spread too FFS. EDIT: I'm so fuckin mad right now. God damn it. Why punish your top players in your game?

Holy shit what the fuck are you guys doing adding random spread to the sniper rifles. What the fuck is wrong with you rofl. There should be ABSOLUTELY no spread on the sniper rifles. Why punish skill. Why the fuck is making all of a snipers fights a fucking GAMBLE a good thing? That is NOT fun. This is such a STUPID idea and when I come home today I'm gonna SHIT on all of your defenses for this idea Havoc. This isn't counter strike or Call of Duty. The gameplay is fast paced and revolved around PROPER AIMING and when the gunplay is based off of arbitrary RNG then it's no longer FUN. This isn't a hard concept. It's not that fucking hard to think about.

Tides of Blood style. What a great map. I always prefered that to DOTA, and at one point of time it was even MORE popular than DOTA (first year of TFT release). Aeon of Strife gameplay in this would be pretty neat. Might even make the game more popular too since it'd be easier.

No point. Most players are just like the lane creeps anyways.

yeah this is the real problem, i just realized this makes the most sense I hope its gone forever. And I hope the jelly screen bullshit is removed too. Just learn to look at your HP!

It does its job. Deadly with high tracking rate against infantry (60%+) and really good vs. armor. Leave it alone.

Infantry is its hard counter. Even a normal c4 loser rifleman.

This game needs to be cleaned up more with more content in order to have a stable playerbase on steam. This is what we've all been hoping for anyways. Some balance issues need to be ironed out. Mechanics issues need to be ironed out. Content needs to be higher (maps).

IMO the damage should be: 80 damage for chest -> 250 for head for the 500 class silenced sniper rifle. 160 damage for chest -> 400 for head for the 1000 class ramjet rifle. There is NO reason why the 500 sniper should be able to gib techs/hotties/t2+ with a single HS, it should require 2 shots ATLEAST. This huge nerf needs to be counter acted with ammo drops or some sort of refill mechanic on the field. Refer here to what I'm talking about: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=74068 Or possibly even upping their ammo count. Leave light armor damage the same.

Ever wonder why APC rushes can decide games? Ever wonder why many players just flat out leave when a first building is destroyed within the first 10 minutes? Getting a building destroyed is too harsh from the way they limit your resources. The powerplant is the a strange one. Other than it being a high priority target when its an automated base defense map, the penalty of its destruction essentially cuts every players credits in half. All of the savings you had at this point of the map has been cut in half and you have to do 2x the work to get anything. A team with the power plant down is forced into extreme defense because losing any resources is an extreme risk and when the resource is lost, it causes a huge credit sink for the team. I think instead of making everything 100% more expensive, it should be 50% more expensive to keep the same strategy to target it but not having it be an automatic game winner when its successful. The refinery is obvious. When the refinery is down it's almost impossible to get credits to do anything. Having both the harvester and the automatic credit gain cut off creates a black hole of an economy for a team. Everyone has to hope they have enough cash saved up when it dies or have a class/vehicle that can gain enough points to keep their economy somewhat flowing. Instead of having both the harvester and the 2 CPS be taken away when the ref dies, credits per second should just drop down to 1 instead. The infantry structures on death create too huge of a utility loss for a team. It's hard to go into detail without being too obvious so I'm just gonna say that when a HON/Barr is down the officer and rocket soldier should still be purchasable after destruction. Similarly with the vehicle structures. Without going into obvious details I'll just say that the Buggy, Humve, and APC should still be purchasable after destruction. Possibly even Chinooks to keep it fun. This is just a rough idea of what I had in mind.

Getting point whored against means you're not winning. Every time I see a team with more points win is because they played better throughout the match. Points seem fine to me. Although I do think that infantry should give more points on death, especially special classes. Normal infantry are worth only 5 points.

bump! Also if there were backpacks, should they make the refill sound or the old renegade weapon pickup sound?

We need better keybinds for the voice commands. Why not just take TRIBES:ASCEND system? Tribes has always had a great voice command keybind system.

Sprinting is fine. It's the only way support can actually defend them selves vs decent snipers. If you don't want sprinting then increase the base speed of movement and remove the movement penalty for using a repair gun.

Debatable. Field is definitely a map that takes teamwork and coordination, and after playing in in our Tmx lobby war the map makes WAY more sense in terms of how it was meant to be played. Then again, Renegade with full communication and actual good players is an entirely different game anyway. That being said, I think most of what Field could actually use is slightly wider base entrances, kind of like Under. As of right now, one or two Mammoths take up too much space, and while it's easy to rectify this with smart positioning, that requires non-idiots in Mammoths. Unfortunately, 9/10 Mammoth drivers turn out to be idiots. I've seen Field go well in public matches, but that still required an overwhelming majority of players to be from the days of yesteryear, on top of the fact that the GDI team had over half coordination. For general public play though, standard Field is just too much of a headache for the general populace. Perhaps having a Field and FieldX wouldn't be so bad, as in lobby/clan wars Field is actually a viable map requiring economy control, some tunnel-watching for defence, the ability to infantry rush base defences from the tunnels (even the AGT), and some tactical terrain for vehicle wars. Again, I see where you're coming from, but I also know where others are coming from. We can't just cater to the low level players all the time and bow our heads to them. There are plenty of maps that do this like like walls and whiteout but this game is most fun when its army vs. army not a couple of players sneaking around and then a few playing their mega-420-quicscope-sniper wars with their semi-decent twitch aim. I can see your point by making the entrances just SLIGHTLY bigger (especially nod's) but don't allow infantry to just sneak in all by them selves or some shit. Players need to LEARN this game, not just be lazy and sit afk as SBH while waiting to get nukes from their refinery being up. I can't fucking stand seeing players planting nukes with 12 points to their name 12 minutes into the game. How do they even find that fun? It's like playing a shitty version of THIEF:TDP.

Can't wait, this is my favorite map. Nice tight base designs and short lengths to enemy bases. Best!