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You seem upset that your insults don't work. Which says nothing about whether it is a good idea to increase credits for shooting enemies with the wrong weapon vs. other ways of increasing income. You have literally no argument other than the fact that it was in Renegade. All you are doing is posting a shitty idea and then shitposting with your "But I know more than you cause I say I do" joke of an argument without actually lending any evidence to support your shitty idea. I'm not even insulting you in any way yet you still are under the impression that I am. That proves my "overly defensive" analysis of your posts better than I ever could. It made people dislike the game in renegade, and then had to go back to the old system. Why would you then support the system that proved to be a failure? It literally makes no sense. It's the same gamemode and same units as renegade. It's not like I'm comparing renegade x to battlefield's point systems....I'm comparing renegade's to renegade x's. Id say that's pretty relevant, personally.

The next beta update will have a few maps added most likely (so long as they pass the private beta stage).

I see the logic both of you are putting forth, but the ramjet uses the shrapnel warhead. That's the same warhead as the pistol, autorifle, sniper rifle, and the shotgun. So if you're calling one anti-material, you're essentially also calling them all anti-material - which they shouldn't be. The truth is that the snipers should have always had their own unique warhead, but that wasn't the case in the original. I wouldn't mind seeing it change for this new game, though (especially since infantry in general are a bit buffed vs vehicles and orcas/apaches are pretty heavily nerfed vs basically everything).

You assumed enough to insult my knowledge of the game. 3 times in fact, over a 4 sentence post. And you give no reason to have a broken feature other than that Renegade had a broken feature. Rewarding players for using the WRONG weapon for a job is the opposite of a good idea. Except no, points are not a substantial part of your income The refinery gives far more income than points do while it is still up. And it is supposed to be this way, otherwise the Refinery is not a valuable building. 1. You're wrong, fuck off. 2. I was commenting on your lack of knowledge into game design, not knowledge of how Renegade works. I've never before seen someone get so defensive over a self-deluded insult. How about this reason: many renegade servers implemented a pointsfix that essentially made it similar to how renegade x is now. Within a year, almost all of those servers died off and the ones that remained were almost entirely non-pointsfix servers. Players like it that way because it gives them a fighting chance if their refinery is dead. If the refinery is the only building left and the harvester has already died, the team is getting 1 credit per second. By attacking or repairing, you can earn far more credits per second than the refinery does. That's just one extreme example, but I can give many more if needed. The point is that you're trying to lessen the importance value of the points and credits earned correlation; when you really can't do that. It is very important, particularly in competitive games (clanwars, funwars, community wars).

Actually I was talking about the OP. Why would you assume I was talking about your suggestion? Also your suggestion is even dumber than his. Giving players an incentive to do something stupid (shooting heavy armor with weapons that don't deal damage to heavy armor) is so mind-numbingly retarded that I had to re-read it a half dozen times to realize that you were actually trying to put it forth as a good idea. No shit? Why do you waste your time making a statement about something everyone knows? No, most of your income is supposed to come from the refinery. That's why the refinery is important. No you're just an idiot. I didn't assume anything. I was addressing if it was. Hence the start of my post. Did you play the original renegade? Because original renegade had the same warhead give a far greater multiplier to green healthed vehicles. The suggestion I proposed was a much toned down suggestion compared to the original renegade. I had to point out that each point = a credit because you made a it clear that you thought the refinery was the main source on income for the team. When in reality, points and the refinery work together to determine a player's credit amount. "Most of your income" is completely game dependent. You're calling me an idiot when I can 100% guarantee you that I know more about renegade (x) that you do.

Also this. If you're talking about my suggest change: Clearly you're not understanding the suggested change whatsoever. Also, each point = 1 credit. Points are just as much of an income as the refinery. You're completely lost on this subject.

I somewhat agree with you. In the end it is almost the same time (Ren x actually has a little bit longer), but many people don't like that it works that way. They like seeing the animation while being able to disarm it still, and don't like the fact that it just sits there for 5 seconds and there's nothing you can do about it. People liked the intensity the renegade one had, and feel that it is lost with the new system. I find myself seeing both sides, but I really think kil's suggestion is the best way to go about it and please everyone.

Yeah but it has a 5+ second "undisarmable" time during that animation (its also closer to 45-50 than 30). People really dislike that, and kil (one of the devs) had posted a possible solution that I really liked, so I thought I'd put it for the public to see as well.

No.

Any opinions on the additional 3 ideas?

One of you is talking from a primarily marathon standpoint whilst the other one is talking from an AOW standpoint. Different views on the subject. In the end, if a team is extremely low on credits, the other team should generally be rushing or placing beacons to destroy the remaining buildings. Whoring points/credits just gives the other team cash (as well as currently too much points+credits). The only time you should be whoring is in AOW if you're trying to win by points and the game time is near an end.

Yeah, repair should be 50% like in Renegade. But shrapnel warhead points+credits for damaging heavy armored tanks needs to be increased.

Is this true? Yes.

Guns that use the shrapnel warhead in renegade should be getting more credits. I like the idea of the pointsfix, but it takes it too far by making damage dealt be the direct result on credits earned. It should be that this warhead should get damage dealt*20 for credits when hitting a heavy armored vehicle. For those of you who think that the *20 seems far too high, I'd like you to know that you don't know how it works. For instance, it is .05 points/credits per 1 damage for damaging a medium tank. So, it would only equal out to be 12 points/credits for an entire round of a nod autorifle into a med tank. The way it is with the pointsfix in renegade would have it be .06. That is far too low and why pointsfix servers all died out in renegade. There needs to be a multiplier for these warheads, and 20 is more than reasonable.

Updated with 3 more alternative ideas. May possibly do a few others that I've been thinking up of later. See original post #5, #6, and #7 for the 3 added.

You mine building entrances on walls_flying (and a couple on the wf and ref ramps) and the base entrance on walls_ground as GDI. It is not complicated, and the only reason this gets screwed up ever is if people like yourself try to take away those mines by mining the buildings and thus taking away the mines at the entrances. Considering Walls doesn't exist on the current version of Renegade X, I figured he meant Walls Flying and wrote as such (also notice the mention of 'HoN ramps' in his post - context, sir.) Edited my post to read 'Walls Flying' for clarity. Yeah that's why in my original post I said "in the original renegade."

You mine building entrances on walls_flying (and a couple on the wf and ref ramps) and the base entrance on walls_ground as GDI. It is not complicated, and the only reason this gets screwed up ever is if people like yourself try to take away those mines by mining the buildings and thus taking away the mines at the entrances.

NOBODY LISTEN TO THIS MAN Mining the entrance to the base is just asking for trouble. Only exceptions is when you have 50+ mine limit or you only have maybe one or two buildings still alive. Any vehicle can simply drive over those and a good black hand team of 3 could just sacrafice one of them and then the two others could run in, walk into the nonmined building, place timed c4, then shoot at the MCT when the timed c4 will blow in 5 seconds. Sure, mining the entrance would stop a lone stealth blackhand, but this game is about teamwork. If you want something without teamwork go play something like CoD or Halo, the fisherprice FPS games. Oh wow, this thread is full of retards. You're the reason competitive players quit renegade. Please play more and try to talk less. Thanks.

Nothing I said was false or argument provoking...just stating facts to support my opinion on the matter. If I'm trolling - so are you.

Zone troopers are in KW which is a TS expansion...meaning it's part of TS. Kane's wrath is part of the third tiberium war. Also,

So I'm not allowed to take out one specific comparison you made, because that specific comparison didn't follow the "flow" of what you were trying to get across? Interesting logic. I see why you think other people have flawed logic now - yours in particular in not of the norm. I know. Which is what I said in my post from "still though" and on. I know your point. I was just criticizing your comparison. Mendoza/Möbius takes out vehicles quicker with constant fire, actually. Pic/rave also kills infantry in 1-2 shots, making them also very versatile. There isn't any gun that is particularly effective against infantry and light armored vehicles specifically. Pic, railgun, volt, rocket launcher, all do the same damage to heavy and light armored vehicles alike. There isn't a weapon that focuses specifically on a ranged attack to light armored vehicles. Arties and mrls's are two of the most used vehicles, and one of the most successful counter to them is currently the sniper. Why? Because they don't have any other real threats from infantry at range. A new gun/character that focuses specifically on light armored vehicles would be a nice solution alongside nerfing the snipers vs light armored vehicles. "The Zone Raider is the ZOCOM superior version of the Zone Trooper, having several advantages over the GDI counterpart. It possesses sonic RPGs as its primary weapon, that inflict splash damage and are more powerful than Zone Trooper railgun rifles (though somewhat more inaccurate). It has anti-air missile launchers mounted on its shoulders, proving equal in power against aircraft as a Missile squad and allowing it some form of retaliation toward the common weakness of infantry to aircraft."

Real life logic can't really be used to argue something for Renegade. So comparing Renegade/X to a game like BF4 that is primarily based on realism is pretty useless. Still though, the point does remain that "snipers" are deemed to be strictly anti-infantry units by the vast majority of the general public. It's why later advancements into the C&C universe (i.e TS) had infantry specifically designed for anti-aircraft, and others specifically designed to counter light armored vehicles. I'd be all for a sniper nerf to light armored vehicles so long as another weapon/character is created that can counter these units with the same efficiency. Without that, however, I really do not think the current counter measures to flying vehicles in particular are all that powerful when you take out the sniper class.

GDI's damage calculation comparisons from Renegade to Renegade X: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72933 Snipers (both) do very similar damage to vehicles (the same to light armored, in fact). The reload reload time is increased, and RoF is also decreased. Making them weaker in Renegade X essentially. If you're going to argue "OP snipers," do so at RenegadeForums; they've already seen a nerf from the original game. If you want to discuss the ineffectiveness of orcas/apaches, however, do so here (as they work completely different from Renegade).

Yeah, those vehicles would be cool for another game mod, but not so much for a Renegade based mod.

I'd rather have this as well. It gave nod the advantage more than gdi in renegade because you often couldn't tell if it was a sbh or the spy that was killed. On GDI, it was always the sbh if a spy were to die.