yosh56

Right, so if it's not obvious, I'm usually not one to talk about adding things to the game. Generally it's all about taking current mechanics and looking at how we can use what we already have to re-balance or add to the experience that is Renegade X. This is one of those exceptions. ------------- If anyone ever played both CnC 3 and the Kane's Wrath expansion, you may remember the Hammerhead from GDI that was added in the expansion. I bring up the Hammerhead as it is a great example of turning creative player tactics/exploitation into a balanced part of a game. As a brief history lesson: The Hammerhead is a helicopter unit that GDI could purchase. It could carry 1 squad of infantry, and that infantry unit/squad could fire out of the Hammerhead even while it was flying. The main reason this unit came into being, is that in vanilla CnC3, APCs already had the ability to carry infantry and allow them to fire from inside. Couple this with the airlift ability (which called in a carry-all to pick up vehicles) and GDI players quickly found out that you could have flying squads of troopers with Railguns and rockets that didn't have to reload like regular aircraft. It was pretty cost inefficient though (800 for an APC+300 for the airlift then whatever infantry). However, as cost inefficient as it was, it could still be used effectively if your enemy didn't see it coming, and they weren't prepared to deal with something that wasn't necessarily supposed to be part of the game. The Carryall also had complete crap for health, as it wasn't a fighting unit. Fast-forward to the expansion, and the Hammerhead was one of the only units added to the expansion that actually had its shit together and didn't seem like a unit that was just "thrown in" where one didn't belong. It was something born of an exploit that players knew well and since we'd been exposed to something similar we'd already established how balanced it could be. Flying APCs could have been patched out at any time, but honestly it was something cool that players didn't feel was too bad, but was imbalanced (with Carryall health being too low to be effective). With that in mind, when the Hammerhead was created, it mimicked the price of the tactic, but was just made a bit more expensive so that a decent amount of health, and a standard weapon, could be added to the unit. In the end, the Hammerhead is probably one of the only units that didn't receive much flak at its addition. It had a few unit upgrades that had to be looked into, but overall it was a successful addition because it was something 'new' that had merely come from something players already knew, understood, and already used. It was just tweaked to help fill in some necessary gaps. Morale of the text-wall: I think some items get added without much concern for what players want/already try to do in-game. For this you have to look at what bugs are exploited, and what intended-but-kind-of-not tactics are being used. If it seems like the tactic is popular but pretty imbalanced, it might make a decent gameplay mechanic if some things were just tweaked about it. To point out examples that are already in a Renegade X. ---------------- Flaming vehicles are making a bit of a comeback, and honestly they're just as annoying as they were in OldRen. Not only are they annoying, they're imbalanced as hell, which is why they were so loathed to the point of dropping the ban-hammer in many servers. Now look at flaming vehicles in the sense of what they DO actually add to they game. -They make the Buggy relevant late game at the expense of the Buggy itself. -They give Nod an odd and sneaky tactic to counter out-of-position, or jumbled up GDI armour. It also fits in with their terrorist vibes (Hell, Tiberian Dawn introduced us to Nod with them crashing a plane into a building). -People seem to like suicide-bombing in games. If it seems like a troll tactic, it draws some laughs. The issue with how they operate now: -For 300 credits you can blow up an 800 credit Med (even with a limit of 4) -All of the damage is focused right on to whomever you decide to ram -The cheap cost of this tactic means it is very easy for one player to create another flaming vehicle after one has been destroyed. So, are flaming vehicles currently imbalanced: yes; as a Med you can not kill a buggy fast enough without that Buggy being completely adamant on trying to cross the entire field in a straight line in plain sight of you. So flaming vehicles in their current state are technically an overpowered exploit, but they have perfect potential to be 'added' to the game as something balanced that the community has seen before and proven to actually add a bit of something to the game. As a suggestion for flaming vehicles, I'd look into a buyable remote explosive item for Nod that would stick to vehicles (and if possible, NOT infantry) as a replacement for just tossing copious amounts of C4 onto a vehicle. Adding a buyable explosive item that actually costs +-500 and did significant(but not game breaking) splash damage to vehicles would be right up Nod's alley. Kill off some (if not all) of the -vehicle- splash damage from remote C4, and now flaming vehicles are a built-in mechanic with some form of balance, as opposed to a game-breaking exploit. It would make the buggy relevant in late-game as a blockade breaking unit (e.g on Field) but while also costing much more to give it the additional functionality. Making it AOE as opposed to just one focused blast means you could justify it not having enough punch to kill a unit of equal value, but it would undoubtedly be able to damage entire armour columns if it was allowed to get too close. So for 800 credits (300 for Buggy+500 for suicide package) say it did 200-300 damage depending on how close the target was. 1 by itself could be a nuisance to GDI armour clumps, while Nod would need to shell out 2400 total to create a coordinated force capable of actually killing off a Medium tank column that just mindlessly clumped together. That's assuming that GDI would all be so close together that it would even be effective. It also would require A LOT to be effective vs. Mammoths. As for range of effect, a simple Med-tank's radius around where the package is set would be sufficient without being overcompensating. On a final note for a bomb strapped to vehicles, I'd say making the suicide package ALWAYS damage/kill whatever object it is attached to would save people from simply tossing 2 or 3 on a friend's Buggy then detonating them without the Buggy actually being sacrificed. With that, flaming vehicles suddenly go from an annoying, extremely overly cost-effective way to wtfpwn any vehicle (save for a Mammoth) you want single-handedly without needing any real help from your team, let alone needing to make any significant investment, to actually requiring a significant cash investment and not being able to decimate alone. ---- Now, I think I made it clear that flaming vehicles as a mechanic belong on Nod. It fits them, and if balanced correctly they allow some faction differentiation, which in truth is one of the greatest traits Renegade offers over most other shooters. Sticking to the theme of glitches, bugs and exploits that actually showcase some interesting possibilities when balanced, we have the infernal vehicle physics present in Renegade X. Sure, vehicles take a bit of getting used to in general, but likely the biggest exploit known about vehicle physics right now is that many vehicles can just run underneath vehicles and continue to fire without being at risk of retaliation from the vehicle they are beneath. It's been discussed before, and Im sure most people probably know where this one's going. If we're not going to find how to completely fix vehicles running beneath Mammoth tanks, then GDI's Mammoth should have a damage zone on its undercarriage. This zone should pertain to ONLY the very underside of a Mammoth, not a front ramming zone or anything of the sort. From a balancing point of view, right now a Nod APC, a light tank, a Stealth tank can all run beneath Mammoths and defeat them easily. While some vehicles can get beneath Medium tanks, it is much easier for a Med to roll off of a Stealth tank or a Light tank and continue fighting. A Mammoth's huge body and slow movement makes it nigh impossible to toss yourself off of any vehicle wedged beneath it. Cue having a damage-zone beneath the Mammoth. If any vehicle finds itself beneath a Mammoth, it should still be able to fire and work it's way out through driving, however there would be a STEEP penalty for remaining beneath a Mammoth. In terms of damage, the equivalent of both Flamethrowers on a flame-tank. This means that a full health Stank would have just over 3 seconds of time to live if they decided running under the front of a Mammoth was a good idea. An APC and Light tank could last for just under 5 seconds. At this amount of damage, accidentally running beneath a Mammoth wouldn't completely screw you over, however you would be taking FAR more damage underneath it as opposed to if you just played like a sane person and got hit by its cannons. Balance-wise this doesn't break the Mammoth, though it adds some extra functionality to it. It would allow it to be slightly more fearsome when pushing forward, and no longer would it have a glaring physics based downfall, but rather a physics-based advantage. Being the heaviest vehicle (aside from the Harvester) it wouldn't exactly be mind-bogglingly broken to newcomers to see a Mammoth run over small vehicles either. They're too slow to do it constantly, which more or less makes it balance itself. ------ While letting Nod have a balanced version of flaming vehicles aids them against GDI's main strength of being dominant in the field (or so we're told), that doesn't leave GDI with anything to add towards Nod's main advantage of having stealthed units. Cue what we already know: Patch and Mobius are the ultimate SBH hunters due to their burn damage after they hit. This keeps stealth units highlighted for the sole fact that the burn damage lasts a second or two. While this is a part of the game, I do not believe Mobius and Patch were ever originally thought of to be made into anti-stealth characters. Burn damage is not exactly an exploit, or a glitch, but SBHs highlighting well after being hit is an already exploited side-effect. Making this a mechanic that can truly work in GDI's favour could aid even the bad GDI teams in stealth-detection, without necessarily going overboard. As for how to use this, I can think of several implementations. 1. Make Patch's weapon and specifically Mobius' Volt rifle do half of their current burn damage, but for twice as long. Now that Nod's SBHs actually flash like they're supposed to, having them tagged and flashing for a full 2-4 seconds makes it far more imperative that they not be caught. As of now it takes pretty minimal effort to flee with sprint as an SBH and completely lose your attackers, unless they're very good at keeping up with you. On a balance scale, SBH's would still be able to sneak easier than any other infantry, but once they were caught it would be significantly harder to escape from one of the above infantry, as they would be visible to other players for a longer amount of time. 2. Make Patch's weapon burn slightly longer, but re-purpose Mobius' current secondary fire to be a stealth-checking wave of static that does virtually no damage, but burns. In terms of the secondary being sort of an electrical 'fan', this merely simulates what players already do with Mobius. We sweep bases with a tier 3 unit, and instead of needing to nerf stealth even harder, or add items that will almost nullify the point of being stealthed, we can have a unit that was purposed by players to be anti-stealth actually fit the role better with minor changes. To explain the secondary in some depth, I had in mind taking out the ridiculous lightning barrage that honestly hasn't made sense since day one, and instead replacing it with a fan-shaped electrical pulse that didn't have a massive range (say twice the max range you're actually supposed to see stealth, maybe a bit more) and had a significantly reduced rate of fire(say once per 2-3 seconds to make it hard to just spam). Its combination of moderate range and cone of effect would allow you to 'ping' areas for SBHs, rather than mindlessly run in circles to firing at everything. Stealth soldiers that were hit would "burn" for several seconds, (say 2 or 3), but in terms of damage from the burning it would be minimal to non-existent. Looking from a balance point of view, SBHs are a tier 2 unit that isn't as much of a nuisance at tier 2 as it is at tier 3 (nukes). Logically, as Nod's main advantage increases with tier, GDI's countering abilities deserve to increase as well. At tier 3 gameplay, SBHs can single-handedly decimate buildings, and it doesn't seem too off the wall for GDI to have slightly better options for contending with them later in the game. Considering Mobius' burn effect was already exploited for its effectiveness, it doesn't seem far fetched to just make it his built-in secondary purpose. 3. Add in a GDI-only item that is a pulse scanner which works like the aforementioned secondary fire on Mobius. Since the devs seem adamant on adding items, why not have A) something faction-specific like the proposed suicide package on Nod, and B) Let them be items that help address issues but still require some form of skill and intelligence to use? (I'm looking at you EMP nades and AT mines) The addition of a portable scanner for GDI aids in detecting stealth at the expense of not having a secondary weapon. This means Hotwires would either have to use remote C4 or throw proximity mines to actually kill SBHs. The scanning item would allow infantry with actual weapons to find SBHs, then adequately dispatch them, though they would have to switch off of their scanning item and back to their main weapon. The scanner itself would be like Id suggested for Mobius' secondary: a fan-like projectile that "burned" for little or no damage and traveled about twice(or a fraction more) the length of the actual stealth-reveal distance. It would allow you to 'ping' SBH hotspots, and punish single SBHs by having them revealed through 'burning' for several seconds. Groups of SBHs could still scatter and possibly evade. Balance-wise, SBHs would simply have to be more aware of where they were standing, as while GDI couldn't see them on the canyon-wall behind their Powerplant, an infantry unit could theoretically step out and scan the wall at any moment from just outside the PP door. While they would 'burn' for awhile and be revealed, it doesn't mean that a group of them couldn't just scatter and go back to full stealth in seconds. This would also need to be a fairly expensive item, along the lines of 500+, as it increases GDI's ability to counter a tier 2/3 unit greatly. It would also be too powerful for more than a few defensive players to have one. I'm aware the idea for a motion-scanner is present, but I feel like the last thing we need is more fire-and-forget in Renegade X. Defence is supposed to be both active and passive, and stealth searching should be active if you ask me. There are a few more, but they sort of overlap with what already has been said. Just to name a few: Nod specifically gains a suicide vest. AOE, only about 100-200 damage. Costs 500 as it has the potential to clear the tunnels with just 2 users participating, so spamming them would be too expensive. This spawns off of flaming infantry if it wasn't obvious. Destroyable wall segments on the sides of the walls on Walls. We had the exploits of driving up the sides on Walls in beta 1 and 2. Adding destroyable segments that create ramps on both sides when broken allows more options for vehicles than simply having to run in the front. Making the destroyable segments very robust means that it would be difficult to open these paths however. Just to counter Nod's vest idea, GDI could gain a flak-vest that increases explosion resistance. This also feels more field-control-esque with being able to tank splash damage. Again, this isn't an exploit based issue. Give both sides mine-resistant items/classes. We already exploit walking through mines slowly, and using walls and everything else to make them less of a total hinderance, we may as well add an item (tier 2 cost of about 4-500) that allows explosion resistance, and more importantly reduction of mine damage. If it was locked to particular classes, that would be even better, as it wouldn't make SBHs and engineers even more powerful. ------- Right, that sums of the majority of ideas we could make out of the exploits already present in Renegade X. Again, exploits aren't all necessarily bad, and sometimes the best ideas can be made if we just change them from exploits, to actual mechanics. Feel free to add anything I may have missed. Just remember what we're focusing on here. Glitches, exploits and bugs that could possibly be balanced mechanics with some thought.

At 4 remotes you can kill/almost kill a Med depending on how connected you are to it. That's still a lot for something that takes virtually no skill to pull off, and is cheaper than a tier 2 infantry unit. There's good reason why so many servers had a tendency to ban them. Mmm, ideas. I'm not usually one to talk about adding stuff, but that's about to change.

So, when's the last time you had to PAY for vehicles in Battlefield? Flaming buggy cost 300 to make, and right now for 300 you can take down a 1500 credit unit...instantly. Second, on a map like Islands it is VERY easy for a buggy to just already be too close for you to do anything about it. Those fuckers are fast, and tight corners with lots of cover means they're literally too fast for you to do anything about them. You can't back away fast enough and it is physically impossible to kill them before they connect.

Screw it, everyone's bringing it up again, so time for a Yosh-post on this annoying subject. Besides, I haven't made a new topic in like almost a week...or day. I dunno. The Ramjet, noobjet, n00bjet, fagjet, 1k sniper, overpowered gun, skillless weapon...etc etc, is probably the most complained about weapon next to the Flamethrower. At least the Flamethrower is complained about because it's weak though, the Ramjet gets it bad because most think it's too strong. So, let's break it down instead of just making topics whining about particular random aspects we hate about it. ---- Let's look at it from a cost-effective ratio in CQC first off. The Ramjet's rate of fire is about 0.7 seconds, so it is currently less than a second. That'll be important throughout this. Vs. Free Infantry there's the infamous one-hit-KO. Personally free infantry are "free", but effectiveness wise they are along the lines of a 100 credit unit, maybe more. So for 10x the cost Ramjets one-hit-kill infantry in the chest. PICs also one hit kill to the body for the same price difference. Factor in how many free riflemen a 1k sniper can actually take on simultaneously and win, (which is really about 3 in perfect body-shot conditions) and you come out with them actually being cost-ineffective vs. free infantry, as 4 free(100) soldiers can easily beat a Havoc/Sakura in CQC. Vs. characters the Ramjet is 2 hits to the body, so all the way up to 1000 credit characters it becomes progressively more cost-effective. 1 vs. 1 trading body-shots, the only weapons that beat the Ramjet are...none actually. If the Ramjet goes for body-shots vs. weapons going for head shots, then the Volt-Rifle, Chaingun, and LCG come out on top. So in ideal situations the Ramjet isn't that great in CQC due to its fairly slow rate of fire, however there's rarely an ideal situation presented, and that's where numbers start to get a bit crazy. Ramjets depend A LOT on who's behind the trigger. If the player is able to hit 50% on body shots, they are more than likely unbeatable 1v1 against all infantry. Assuming they're going for body-shots, and they almost always hit their first shot, then miss the 2nd, they automatically win 1v1 encounters against free infantry without riflemen being able to cause any noticeable damage. Shotguns may be an issue if they get off one very well placed shot. So, at 50% accuracy first-hit luck, Ramjets are unbeatable to free infantry 1v1. So cost wise that makes sense, as a rifleman is 1/10th of a Havoc/Sakura. At 50% accuracy we're looking at 3 riflemen being able to down a Havoc or Sakura, so that'd be along the lines of a 1/3rd cost effective against free infantry in CQC. Towards characters with the same skill statistics (Always hit 1st shot, 50% accuracy), the a Ramjet is a bit more iffy in its cost-effectiveness. Once more assuming the 1k sniper is all about that body-shot life (as he has more to lose from missing the head than automatic weapons), he can take on Chaingun officers which are 175 credits, at about half the effectiveness of free infantry, as chainguns do almost half of a tier 3 infantry's health with 50% accuracy and a mix of head and body shots before dying in a situation like this. So by the time 50% accuracy Ramjets get enough shots out to kill 1 character class, they will die to any others that are around. That's fine and dandy, as technically the Officer or McFarland/Chem-troopers have an extreme upper hand cost-wise against Havocs and Sakuras. However, 1v1 they fail to be a decent counter. For non-single shot weapons, the Volt Auto Rifle and LCG are the only weapons that can beat a 1k sniper with 50% aim in a true CQC battle. With a minor bit of luck(as in the Havoc/Sak missing an extra shot) Patch, Gunner, SBHs and Officers can all come out on top of a Ramjet in close quarters. Now, let's change this to 50% head shots. Instantly, the Ramjet wins every fight 1v1. It's much harder to find somebody that can do 50% head shots in CQC however, so that is something to take into account. However when it does, Ramjets range in cost effectiveness from .10-1.0. They can render Mobius a waste of 1000 credits just for walking around the wrong corner. On the same token they can hit a free infantry unit, then die to a decent Mobius before they statistically can land another shot. So final verdict of cost effectiveness vs. infantry in CQC is that it varies and is very situational. Chest-for-chest, the Ramjet wins every fight. At 50% accuracy it wins many fights, but it doesn't come out very cost effective before having to reload. With head shots, it suddenly skyrockets to being at least a 1.0 cost effective rating. Vs. infantry CQC @ 50% accuracy with the first hit always connecting: Minimum cost effectiveness is 1/3rd Maximum cost effectiveness is 1.0 At 100% Accuracy to the head, the Ramjet is capable of fighting off 2 Mobius' before dying to a third. This is thanks to its rate of fire being just fast enough to off 2 Mobius before taking lethal damage. Vs. infantry CQC @ 100% accuracy to the head Minimum cost-effectiveness is still 1/3rd Maximum cost-effectiveness is ~2 Not too terribly bad, but the one hit KO to free infantry anywhere means that it is the ultimate duelling weapon in CQC against them. ---- Cost-effectiveness vs. Light Vehicles This is an iffy subject, as it's hard to know what an 'ideal' situation is with a vehicle. Most ideal for the Ramjet is being as far away as possible, whilst being close up is ideal to vehicles. So I'll go with moderate range and some cover for the sniper. Ramjets do 60 damage to light armour Vs. Humvees 1000 vs. 350 credits. Sakura wins this at medium range and with something to pop in and out of. At 60 damage a hit, it takes a Sakura exactly 4 shots and a reload to kill a Humvee. That comes out to about 7 seconds for this kill to occur. In those 7 seconds, it is possible for the Humvee to close the gap and take away the cover advantage, but if the Sakura plays ring around the Rosie that becomes a moot point. More than 1 on the field easily spells death to a sniper however, unless they're on high ground inaccessible to vehicles, in which case that's just tactical advantage. That is just barely over 1/3rd cost effectiveness however, so not too spectacular. Vs. Buggies 1000 vs. 300 credits. Havoc obviously wins this just the same. Surprisingly these come out to the same stats as the Humvee, all because of the buggy being left with 10 health after 4 shots. More than 1 on the field easily spells death to a sniper however, unless they're on high ground inaccessible to vehicles, in which case that's just tactical advantage. Vs. Artillery/MRLS These are generally the go to weapon for taking down Artillery. At 1000 vs. 450 credits, Havocs do come out on top by only needing 4 shots, a reload, and 3 more shots to kill. However in the span of the almost 9 seconds it takes a Havoc to take down an Artillery, it has more than enough time to run and get repaired. Still 1v1 this is in the Havoc's favour so long as he isn't ridiculously close. The Artillery can however splash damage around most cover, meaning that more than 1 firing back at a sniper is likely too much to handle. That's about 1/2 cost effectiveness. Vs. Orcas/Apaches 1000 vs. 900 credits, this sparks almost as many debates as the one-shot to free infantry. It takes 7 shots once more to take down an aircraft after their health buff, so that's 9 seconds they have to run or attack once they start taking damage. If the sniper isn't too far away the aircraft can also negate their cover with their uncanny ability to fly. If 1 Havoc can take on an aircraft, it comes out almost as cost effective against Aircraft as it does against infantry in normal situations. So vs. aircraft it has 9/10 cost effective ratio. So overall against light vehicles, the Ramjet comes out 'okay' but not nearly close to anything overpowered. They make great support units against light armour, but unless they come in mass they are not the end all be all to all things light. And if they are in mass...just use heavy armour. Ramjets do virtually nothing to heavy armour. At moderate range with some basic form of cover: Minimum cost effectiveness is 1/3rd Maximum cost effectiveness is 9/10 So realistically they are 'good' not great against light armour. At no point can they 1v1 any light vehicle without some tactical advantage and come out on top. ----- The Ramjet as an actual sniper rifle is a bit harder to judge. On one hand, the one-hitKO on free infantry is annoying and frustrating for anyone who is on it's receiving end, on the other hand, we have a 1000 credit sniper rifle that needs to be better than its 500 credit counterpart. Exactly how much better is debatable. Comparing the 500 and 1000 side by side, I think they may be a bit too disproportionate for their own good. 500 sniper takes : 2 body shots to kill free infantry 3 body shots to kill tier 1-2 infantry 4 shots to kill tier 3 infantry That seems pretty fair and balanced, as it becomes progressively more difficult to get away with body-shots as players go up in tier. Now look at the Ramjet. 1k sniper takes : 1 shot to kill free infantry 2 shots for tier 1, 2, and 3 infantry The Ramjet more or less scraps the entire idea of progression and just sits proudly on top of its podium as a monument to its own brazen ability to just be incredible...maybe too incredible. Now let's factor in that the Ramjet and the 500 sniper have roughly the same rate of fire AND reload speed, and it starts to become obvious why the Ramjet feels overpowered. As this is mostly an analysis, I'm not trying to make too many suggestions, but I do think that at the very least the Ramjet's rate of fire should be over 1 second, and not beneath. Whether that is taken into account or not, another change that may make it seem more proportional with the 500 is decreasing its damage by 50. At 150 damage to the body the Ramjet would now be: 2 shots to free, tier 1 and tier 2 infantry 3 shots to tier 3 infantry. This, coupled with raising the rate of fire to just over a second, would allow Mobius to TRULY hard-counter 1k's in CQC unless the 1k was actually skilled with head shots. It would also allow other infantry to have a better chance vs. those who rely entirely on spamming body shots, even though they aren't exactly marksmen. ----- As for balance of 1k snipers vs. the other 2 tier 3 infantry, I'd have to say 1k's do encroach on PICs territory slightly. On that same note however PICs encroach right back on Ramjet territory with the ability to one shot free infantry. That is an ability that could stay with them however, as PICs have a pretty hefty reload time. It is concerning that PICs have less damage against Light vehicles than 1k snipers however. Considering PICs don't have the range of a Havoc/Sakura, you would think that they'd be more damaging against light vehicles, especially considering PICs are supposed to be field-control type infantry. Don't get me wrong, a small group of them is phenomenal, but the difference in the amount a Ramjet can output vs. Artillery vs. a PIC is a bit disturbing. Where it takes a Ramjet 7 shots over the course of just under 9 seconds to kill an Artillery, it takes a PIC 5 shots that take just over 12 seconds to get out with reloads. I already ranted about how light armour shouldn't take the same damage as heavy armour vs. anti-vehicle weapons, and this is one of those instances where it really starts breaking some expected game-mechanics. If the PIC just did 100 damage to light instead of its current all around 85, it could at least kill off an Artillery as fast as a Havoc. If that occurred, it may not be so implausible to have Havoc's ROF decreased, as we'd still have an infantry able to do what Havoc was always able to do, just not with as much range. ----- I'm sure I'll think of more in the coming days, but for now that's the rough breakdown of everybody's favourite weapon to love and/or hate.

It's not just frowned upon, it's outright overpowered. Also, the limit on remote-C4 should at least curtail a single person's ability to do it. Still, 4 remotes is enough to end a Med's life. Don't see why vehicles need to take such rediculous splash damage from C4 to begin with.

Thought about 1-shot Ramjet from Renegade. It could be something to look into. Would have to still make it better than the 500 though, as if you can just pop head shots then the 500 would always be a better choice. ---- Chem-sprayer is quite OP right now, but I don't think it needs to have any lasting effects added. Damage-over-time is just rage inducing, nothing else. DPS just needs to be looked at since it's a hell of a lot easier to hit people now. --- McFarland having wall-to-wall tunnel splash just sounds annoying. Even 18 damage stacks up over seven(?) shots of not bothering to aim. You should still need to be somewhat close to hit, but we already know how easy it is to let splash-weapons get out of hand, (I'm looking at Gunner in tunnel fights). --- ---- Umm, have you ever used the Volt rifle? Obviously not the same one I have. The last thing it needs is any kind of help with aiming, as if you put the Volt rifle on someone's head for a split second they almost immediately lose half, if not more, of their health. You literally MELT infantry health bars away. It's faster time-to-kill than the LCG to the head, and almost the same to the body. I didn't feel like they needed a range buff in beta 2, but they got one anyway. At no point does the VAR need any further range boost from anything. It's not built to replace the PIC at all ranges, and adding to its ROF anymore basically throws it well over 100dps towards vehicles which starts to become a bit rediculous, even for 1k. I'm not sure what the point of the secondary ever was, unless it was just to look scary. If anything it could be removed and nobody'd really miss it.

Said it before, will say it again, aircraft do need their own armour type. Weaker vs. rockets than heavy/light, maybe less weak towards the ramjet. I still don't find it all that disturbing for Havoc/Sakura to roflstomp them. It takes almost 2 full clips to down them with the health buff, so it really isn't that much of a bother till they start coming out in mass. I mean hell, have you seen the massive amount of air that gets spammed? Having a hard-counter to it just keeps it sane. Rocket soldiers needing an all-around buff is iffy. Right now you have 55 damage on a rocket to any vehicle. I feel like at most this could be moved up to 80 vs aircraft alone, but left the same for other vehicles. They're relatively cheap, can be afforded at the beginning of most games, and have lock-on. They're made to be spammable, not one man armies. P.s. Passenger rocket again. Aircraft still OP.

My reputation precedes me =p Oddly enough, I've nothing to say that's not already been said. All light vehicles, especially artillery, are DPS whores, and them having a long range hard-counter just keeps them from being an end all be all late game. Aircraft are particularly troublesome since they can fly out of most weapon's range fairly easily, and the missile launcher is mostly useless unless they're flying in a completely open area. Devs already mentioned nerfing n00bjet's OHKO to infantry. Their light armour damage isn't much of a problem. If it ever got nerfed, PICs and Rails would need a buff to keep aircraft from being (more) overpowered than they already are. Seriously, that passenger rocket tho'! And, Dave, I haven't been home to play in months. Still top 50 on the board though, if just barely. Probably not even now.

^ That. Think the steel and light concrete idea from OldRen actually made a bit of sense. Can't say I would ever drive a tank on a cobblestone ramp that thin.

Actually I think them making them weak vs. buildings was probably the best move that they got right straight off of beta 1. Foresee too much abuse if they were even decent vs. buildings. They're good vs. units and for surprising engineers behind tanks; for 800 credits, let them stay that way.

Aye. You bastards would have had Field if you'd have traded out 1 Med for a Mammy. Mammoth's are actually pretty good with player counts that low. Still, I find it hilarious that is was basically D6 vs. Jean =p

It's barely 10, think it's less. They make good supplements to Gunner rushes to add a few extra % damage over time, but overall it's too expensive, GDI's has to be lined up correctly to do its full damage, and you likely need even more than 10 people to stand still and draw a very obvious laser to their heads. I'm sure if a full team of 20 called in Airstrikes it could kill a building, but honestly if 20 people are coordinating you have WAY better options.

Damn Right.

....trust me, I know this. I've devised more end-game infantry rushes than I can count, and turned masses of uncoordinated idiots into ruthless fighting forces. I have a higher win % on GDI than Nod, and that's half due to the fact that when I CAN get people to listen I get them to win games. HOWEVER, there's just no getting through the heads of some idiots. Seriously, had a marathon game of Islands down to BARA vs. HON with no Ref. I got a good 10 people working together with excessive caps and such, but still we never convinced the one guy on our team to join us, simply because he was A) adamant on telling us C4ing the outside of the HON was stupid, and B) wallowing in pity of the game being a supposed 'stalemate'. We never converted him, but damn if we didn't destroy the HON by getting rich off of timed c4 on the outside of it, then just running through Nod with advanced infantry from all sides. Morale of the story: if they DONT ever want to wake up and drink the team-play Kool-aid, they WONT. luckily it was just one or two guys that game, but there are sometimes entire teams full of them.

Sorry, but if both teams have like no team play happening and it really is just 20 lone-wolves stalemated with 20 lone-wolves, I think it's safe to vote yes. Can only take one map for so many hours if it looks like nobody's going to make an effort to stop whining and actually start winning.

Forgot the infantry ones. And yes, putting a c4 directly on someone's face(or chest, O forget exactly) makes them shoot themselves. Can actually use that to make a self-healing Engineer/Hotwire IIRC. Proxies are far scarier on SBHs. Floating C4 is a but less obvious than you'd expect, especially in darker areas like the Field tunnels. Also need to mention that C4 people are decent tunnel clearers.

BS, you're never a team player =p Get yourself a 500 and get back in your tunnels!

I think it's obvious I play a lot, and when I can't play RenX (for extended periods of time, like now) I tend to glance at people's streams/videos of it. Now after watching enough from my angle and others, I've started noticing something that would probably aid A LOT in terms of communicating. RenX is missing visual queues to gain the attention of the common id- gamer running around mindlessly. What I mean by visual queues can be summed up as subtle(or sometimes very explicit) 2D markers to draw attention to a particular location or player. There was always talk about the VOIP issue, but I don't think VOIP would really help but a handful a players, namely those that wouldn't just turn it off, or those that actually spoke good enough English to keep up with people ranting about random crap. However, there's the old adage that "a picture is worth a thousand words" and those words told by a picture tend to transcend language boundaries. As for examples of where RenX is missing some queues that seem like they should exist (and at one point some DID exist in OldRen), I'll just name a few. ---- Possibly the most glaring example of where we need visual aids is with symbols over the head of players when they use radio commands. Saying "I Need Repairs" is kind of ineffective when there are multiple vehicles and infantry in a group and you don't have time to be glancing at the chat, ascertaining the name of the individual who said it, then looking around to check the names on the vehicles and people around you. This also helps loads for infantry, as it is unlikely you know the name of every player around you when one asks to be healed or another uses "Follow Me," or a similar command that requires you to have some context of their location to tell if the radio command was even relevant to you. In the later days of OldRen with scripts, there were several server I remember incorporating floating symbols over the head of players when they used radio commands. It's a functionality that I feel added more than many people probably realised. The addition of symbols over enemy heads when enemy units are either Q-spotted or have "Destroy that vehicle" used on them would also be a major help. Right now, "Destroy that Vehicle" just adds in the kind of vehicle you're looking at in the text...but if it says "Destroy that Vehicle Medium Tank" and there's 8 Meds on the field, it basically becomes useless. Coordinating fire might not be such a pain if targets could be painted in a sense. Even if the symbol over them only lasted for a second or two, it would be more obvious what the bloody hell you were saying to fire at. ------ A second, probably kind of more noticeable, addition that might aid in our ability to get the attention of the 15/20 people on your team that don't read would be to have a beacon system. Just to point out another game without built-in VOIP, League of Legends allows decent communication between players that don't know each other just through the ability to ping points of interest. Obviously Ren is at ground level, so we wouldn't benefit from beacons on a map, but what we could probably use is at least rally beacons. What I mean by rally beacons is a beacon visible only to your team that could be used to delineate the area to rally together to form a rush. As for how long it would last, and how far away it would be visible from is up for discussion, but I do believe this would make it easier to get the randoms on a team involved, namely because they'd be attracted to flashy lights. Just look at Planetside 2; if you make this area seem interesting (eg the map flashing on territory with fighting) people will migrate there. ----- Just something I noticed. I've played a lot of games that had VOIP that had basically no coordination because people either didn't use it, or ignored all of the random yelling on it. They also often failed to add a visual aid over in-game characters as to who exactly was talking. Again, visual queues are worth a metric ton in terms of coordinating.

It's been legal as far I know, and it's pretty obvious after your first time experiencing one. Nod's base on most maps is more vulnerable to oddly placed Ions, especially because of the strip. Hell, all of Nod's structures on Walls can be destroyed with 2 beacons. Airstrip and Hon go down together, and Ref and PP can be hit at the same time (this one's specific as hell though).

Already been there and done that, still came out less effective than the Med (Is also harder for everyone else to shoot over. ) If you had two fully coordinated APC drivers to drive under both treads you could probably get that to work. Till then, just push Mammoths with Humvees....which I need to add to the 1st post.

We used it as well. Mammoth on top A) blocks ALL of the bottom Mammoth rockets, and B) Takes all of the splash damage from Artillery that is shot AT&T he bottom Mammoth. It also makes it a pain for the bottom Mammoth to aim.

Decided to post another part of the guide that can stand all by itself easily. This one's a bit crazier, but also kind of entertaining. ----- Creative Tactics ----- Renegade is a game that rewards creativity to the fullest degree, and several new additions/accidental additions allow for a greater degree of creativity than OldRen ever did. "Physics" ------- I use the term loosely, as I've never seen a 4 ton land vehicle be the same after an 80 ton hunk of steel landed on top of it. For the sake of RenX though, these are the more creative (and actually useful) ways you can exploit the new...'physics'. -Ground Vehicle Surfing by Infantry- Probably one of the first things discovered, ground vehicle surfing got some mixed reviews, but overall Im fairly certain it's around to stay. There's actually a lot it can add to the game when used correctly. -APC battle-platforms In Battlefield there are several vehicles that allow infantry to shoot their weapons out of them, yet we don't have that functionality in Renegade, and honestly it doesn't ever need to see the light of day (MAYBE for transport helicopters). However, with the UDK's weird physics engine, we now have the ability to put infantry in and ON an APC. They're still vulnerable to splash damage, but if the APC driver plays their cards right, they can be the most devastating weapon on the field. 3-5 infantry can sit and crouch atop an APC, and so long as they don't move too much they can ride along just fine. Team-Independent: +PICs/Railguns on an APC. Sure, it's expensive, but truly stop and think about the main thing that stops PICs from stopping vehicles. It's vehicle's ability to run away before they die. Throw 4 PICs atop an APC and you now have an Obelisk that is extremely mobile, can fire over vehicles, and if the splash damage gets too heavy, the PICs can just jump in the APC and go refill. +Mobius/Mendoza on an APC. This one's the most high-risk high-reward. The driver for the APC has to get close to allow Mobius to do damage, however having 4 Mobius' on top means that 320DPS can now melt vehicles AND sprint at the same time. +Rocket Soldiers on APCs. This one is a bit of a mixed bag, but it is a lot cheaper than the others. This basically allows for Nod to circumvent not having a cheap AA vehicle, and GDI can have a better AA/AT vehicle just by using a little cooperation. 4 rocket soldiers on an APC have more range than an MRLS, can travel much faster, and if all 4 focus fire they can down aircraft in 2 volleys. Couple that with being able to output 220 armour damage with a full hit, and you actually have a cheap anti-armour platform that's faster than any tank in the game on top of having nearly infinite range. +Havoc/Sakura squad on APCs: This requires the infantry on top to be decent shots, and is a little too specific to be much of any use outside of anti-air and anti-light armour. However, when it comes to AA and destroying light vehicles, this is an amazing combo. You can chase down air vehicles thanks to the APC's speed, and if the snipers on top can aim while moving then you're capable of kiting air vehicles and artillery as well. If you know a group that wants to completely wipe the skies clean of air vehicles, then this is likely the best, if not most expensive choice. Actually, between 5 people, it isn't even that expensive. You can basically think of this tactic as the closest thing to the General's Quad-Cannon that we're ever going to get. GDI-Specific: +Gunners on an APC. Throw Gunners on top of an APC and you basically have a mobile Gunner rush. You can only fit about 4-5 comfortably, so it's not the most effectively tactic, but it will allow the Gunners just enough extra elevation to shoot over obstacles they originally couldn't. If you want to push it, you can drive slowly and try to fit 6 on the roof. That's still enough to down a building in two magazines. +Patches on an APC. Remember how talked up Patch rushes were at some point on this guide? Well, here it comes again. 1 Patch is perfectly capable of dishing out 48 DPS to vehicles when perfectly aiming. 4 Patches can dish out 192 DPS. Factor this in with the fact that Patch has greater range than the Volt rifle, and his weapon has some large, psychologically disturbing tracers, and you've got a weapon to strike fear into virtually all enemies. Add in the mobility of the APC, and now it's a terrifying weapon that's difficult to hit at range, and can run before it dies. Nod-Specific: +LCG Blackhands on APCs: These work much the same as Patch except for some noticeable differences. For one, their weapon does less DPS than Patch's, but on the opposite side of that it is more accurate straight from the hip. Secondly, and most important of all, their projectile is instantaneous, meaning if you can aim at it, you will hit it. 4 of these firing upon one target accounts for about 160 DPS, and if you can continue moving whilst pulling off that damage, you can successfully down most GDI vehicles in no time. As an added bonus, the LCG is phenomenal against infantry. +SBHs on APCs: Their weapons aren't nearly as impressive against vehicles as the LCG, and having a smaller magazine makes them better suited for hit-and-run manoeuvres than anything else. On the bright side, nobody will know there's anything amiss until everyone starts firing. -Humvee/Buggy battle platforms +While they don't have the armour required to tank damage, or the space to fit more than 1 or 2 passengers comfortably on top, the Humvee (and to a lesser extent the Buggy), can be used much the same as an APC battle-platform. +Faster speeds make these good hit-and-run variants of the APC variants. +The 50 .cal gun alone can cancel out 3/4 of a Technician's repair rate on light vehicles, allowing infantry on top to virtually be able to ignore the repair rate against vehicles they attack. +On the down side, Humvees/Buggies only hold 1 passenger. If you have 2 half-dead infantry on your roof, only one can survive. -Tank Repair Drones (GDI) +The Technician classes can already repair tanks quite easily, but GDI's can take advantage of the shape of their tanks to allow Hotwires to ride safely on the back of tanks whilst repairing. +Crouching down on the back of the Med or Mammoth allows them to continue moving forward at full speed if necessary. +Thanks to the size of GDI's two Main tanks, you can sit comfortably far back enough to avoid most splash damage from the front whilst repairing. Unfortunately, splash damage from the sides and air are still an issue. -Air-Vehicle Surfing- This may or may not stick around, but I hope that it does and that the issue of in-flight repairs being too strong is addressed instead. However, since it still works in beta 3 here's a guide to everything you have or haven't been doing by surfing on air units. -Orca/Apache surfing This is notorious enough not to even have to talk about. I'll run down a few good combinations anyway. It is imperative to note that infantry on small aircraft do take extensive splash damage however. +Techs/Engineers on aircraft: Possibly rated one of the most annoying tactics in game, a Technician class on an airframe makes it virtually impossible to defeat without extensive fire. The repair rate is rather insane vs. most AA weapons, though several well-placed missiles does do in the infantry on top. +Rocket soldier on aircraft: Rocket soldiers are decent Anti-air in RenX, though firing from the ground means they can have aircraft targets duck behind high objects to block incoming missiles. So comes the rocket soldier on top of the an Orca/Apache. Dogfighting between aircraft comes down to short range bursts of high damage usually. With a rocket soldier around however, aircraft can have their little passenger pick away at an incoming target's health long before they are in range of aircraft weapons. This also allows for picking off of half-dead opponents that try to flee. +PICs/Ravs on aircraft: PICs are a devastating force to being with, but on top of an airframe they aid in a variety of ways. They can pick off other airframes from greater distance than aircraft weapons helping to soften targets before their pilot moves in for the kill, or they can melt fleeing targets once they are below a quarter of their health. On top of this, PICs are able to aid in anti ground vehicle operations, as they work very much the same as aircraft in terms of firepower: lots of damage in a short time, but quite a delay between shots. +Havocs/Sakuras on aircraft: If you literally can not dogfight to save your life, get a 1k sniper to stand on your airframe and watch every other aircraft pull a quick 180 the moment they spot you. 1k snipers can pick away over half of an aircraft's health, and if the craft literally can not break line of sight then they are as good as dead. Couple this with now having an instant projectile with infinite range, and the skies are more or less yours. +Volt Rifles on Aircraft: Volt rifles are fairly short-ranged; aircraft are fairly short ranged. Volt rifles can take out ALL of an aircraft's health in one magazine. If your pilot is able to keep you safe from rocket barrages and splash damage, you together literally have a time to kill vs. other aircraft that is faster than they can turn around a run for the hills. You also do not have to have perfect aim with the volt rifle, as you would with one-shot weapons. Because of how quickly they get rid of their damaging ammo, Volt rifles also make for very powerful strafing runs vs. ground targets, allowing aircraft to get in, do their damage and get out. -Flying Coffin Surfing (Transport Helicopter surfing) Oh, Trannies might kind of suck at their main job, but their large backside, ability to fly, and ability to carry people actually makes them the successor to the APC in TWO ways now. -The Flying Battleship +Like APCs, the Tranny can carry infantry on top of itself. There are a few differences however. The Tranny is longer and can hold more people on its roof, but very abrupt motions by the pilot can throw people off. However...it can FLY. On that note however, the Tranny needs to turn perpendicular to the target that infantry want to fire at for maximum effect. +Anti-Air Battleships: Ever wonder how easy it is to completely free the skies from annoying aircraft? It's this easy. *4+ Rocket soldiers on top of a transport have infinite range, a locking projectile, and can be flown to maximum height so that their threat range is outright ridiculous. On a map like Walls or Whiteout, this means you can create a AAM site in your base, and make the plateau a no-fly zone whilst still inside your base. *4+ Havocs/Sakuras can also be used if your team has money. At max height over a base, 4 Havocs can turn the entire visible map into a no-fly zone, thanks to an instant projectile with basically infinite range. It's not a SAM site, it's something much much worse. +Anti-Vehicle Battleships: Have an armour problem? Look no further than creating a flying tank destroyer. Team-independent: *4-6 rocket soldiers are outright devastating to vehicles and aircraft on foot. Allow them to be capable of flight, and suddenly any and all tanks on the enemy team are just a few annoying shots away from death. Couple this with helicopters being able to fly over a tank turret's threat range, and you have a recipe for disaster. *5 PICS\Ravs on a Transport helicopter is the the equivalent of a giant flying Obelisk, except for the fact that they shoot faster, AND do more damage. While PICs don't have the infinite range of rockets, they do have enough range for the chopper to fly high enough to avoid a good chunk of ground fire. Couple this with 5 PICs delving out 425 damage every 3 or so seconds, and it becomes clear that this battleship can clear the field of Artillery and heavy tanks with ease. It's also not half bad at warding off incoming aircraft, assuming the PICs can aim. *Volt Rifles are a mixed review for battleships. On one hand, the damage that 5 or 6 can output is utterly game-breaking, able to melt Meds and Flame tanks in only about 2 seconds. There is however, the problem with range, and the Volt rifle's short range forces it to bring the helicopter into dangerously low airspace. GDI: *Gunners are decent anti-vehicle from the skies, raining down rockets with reckless abandon. Honestly he is better saved for the next class of flying battleship. *Patch makes for quite an anti-matter battleship, though his slow projectiles make aiming difficult if lots of movement is involved. However, if performing hit and runs with stopping along the way, he is able to perform phenomenally at destroying vehicles, thanks to 5 of him being able to output enough DPS to kill vehicles in mere seconds. Nod: *LCG Black hands have quite an advantage here. They might have lower DPS than Patch, but they also have a projectile that is instant and much easier to aim. *SBHs are not prime for their vehicle killing abilities, but there is a WTF factor involved with a seemingly normal Transport chopper suddenly firing a hail of lasers. They aren't exactly bad at destroying vehicles when there are about 5 of them, but other infantry are just better at it. -Anti-structure Battleships: These are few and far between, but they are also probably one of the best uses imaginable for Transport helicopters. Team-Independent: +6 Rocket soldiers on top of a Tranny. This spells death to all aircraft, most vehicles and can be a real pain in the ass against structures. They do significant damage, and it is most important to note that they can exploit the flying abilities of the aircraft to target an enemy base from just about anywhere they can see it on the map. +Mobius/Mendoza runs require you to get close, but the damage offered is quite possibly the best in game. 6 of them on top of a flying coffin is capable of delving out 60% to a building in 5 seconds, whilst still continuing to fly by. These would be good hit-and-run base destroyers if Transports weren't huge, fat and too slow to survive close range fire fights. GDI: +You knew it was coming. The Gunner rush from on top of a Chinook helicopter. This is likely the most overpowered tactic GDI could ever pull, but only if a good half of a team commits to it. Flying to maximum height in many maps allows line of sight to much of the enemy base, especially since Nod has the Hand of Nod with its huge handy target. Have 6 Gunners on one chopper, line up a shot from an awkward place on the map, then watch Nod freak out as they're Gunner rushed above the silo on Whiteout, or the AIrstrip side of Walls, or even just having their Refinery hit from the field on Lakeside. Nod: +In all honesty, the LCG Black hand isn't too much special against buildings. He's worth a try, but Nod is better off using Mendozas or rocket soldiers for anti-structure battleships. -Vehicle Stacking- Believe it or not, vehicle stacking is actually more of a waste of time than anything else in most cases. It's almost pointless for Nod, and for GDI it can usually be passed off as just something silly. However, there are actually some beneficial combinations on GDI. Nod sadly doesn't have the Mammoth, so many of its vehicle stacks are more counter-productive than anything else. -Mammoth Stacks- (The Overlord) On many maps, throwing vehicles on top of a Mammoth is outright stupid and pointless aside from just doing it to do it. On the other hand, I've actually proven several combinations effective because they actually HELP a lot with one of GDI's main issue on smaller maps. -MRLS on top of Mammoth +For the sheer sake of being able to turn the Mammoth into an Anti Air powerhouse, this combination has a small hint of utility. It is however, quite terrible, as the MRLS's light armour will make it very difficult to keep alive against the heavy weapons thrown at a Mammoth, even with repairs. -Med on a Mammoth +In all my time playing this was the one TRULY beneficial combination GDI had when it came to vehicles stacking. +The Medium tank is narrow enough to sit in between the Mammoth's missile launchers as not to block them (unless the Mammoth has to fire too far sideways.) +A Medium tank has enough heavy armour to not be utterly decimated by enemy fire, ESPECIALLY if Hotwire support is smart enough to repair both tanks. +Most important of all is the fact that this combination solves a glaring issue with GDI on small maps. It is very difficult for Meds and Mammoths to share the field when space is limited. Stacking them atop one another actually allows your team to squeeze more armour into a tighter area, which leads to the last point. +The Med and the Mammoth create the most generic 'I can beat anything on the ground' unit in the game. The Medium tank puts out 64 damage to armour per hit, while a Mammoth's two round burst puts up 128 damage when it connects. With missiles this tallies up to a good 200ish damage from a unit that only takes up the footprint of a single Mammoth. Factor in that the Med reloads a good half-second before the Mammoth, and the damage output of these two units together is actually quite impressive. Parachutes ------ Parachutes were something new that honestly no one really complained about, and it's unlikely that anyone will unless they see anything below used. It seems simple enough as a mechanic, right up until you let a malicious mind have at it and turn the parachute into a new art of war. They messed up the moment they let you shoot while gliding. -Parachute rushing from Transport helicopters Once more the flying coffin has a purpose. If the enemy team isn't extremely sniper heavy you can pull off some very neat stunts to kill off enemy bases. Parachute Gunner Rushing *2 Transport helicopters filled with Gunners can fly at nearly max height over an enemy base, then Para drop said Gunners over a building of their choosing. *Gunners can shoot while parachuting, meaning that a group of 6-8 can rain down fire from the sky at increasingly close range, and they need but get the 1st magazine off before hitting the ground, the second can come after landing. *Parachuting makes you exceptionally difficult to target, meaning it won't be hard to get your rockets off so long as you have hang time. *Gunner's range means that he can switch targets mid-air at any moment. +Mobius/Mendoza parachute rushing *8 Mendozas or Mobius falling from the sky is more or less the lightning apocalypse. *Once in range of a building, the whole of the group can knock off 80% of a building's health in seconds while still airborne. If you're lucky you can also reload before hitting the ground, allowing a potential building kill before you ever touch the ground. *If the pilots have Volt-Rifles as well, they can sacrifice the transports and hop out as well. 10 flying Volt rifles kill any building they want in 5 seconds. *Tall structures like the a Refinery and Hand of Nod are most susceptible. +Engineer Parachute Bombing *Remember hearing about how C4 on the outside of a building is deadly? Right, how about C4 dropped from the sky? *Watch where you throw C4 while parachuting down. If it lands on spots where no one could EVER disarm it, it is a definite kick able offence. *8 Engineers can drop 80% worth of timed C4 damage on top of any building they float over. Drop both remotes to get an instant 80% from remotes alone. *Nod's Airstrip is particularly vulnerable to this, as putting C4 anywhere on the strip is enough to cause damage. Miscellaneous -------- The Stank can be used like a ramp to catapult vehicles over it. Play your cards right and you can jump over the low part of the walls on Walls. Likely TBC

Noticed that no one really exploits this, but during the ModDB podcast I believe, you can plant beacons in the Whiteout tunnel to kill vehicles on the hill. Pretty handy way for GDI to clear arts, if not a bit expensive. Just the more ya' know.

Devs can't make money off of it, so I'd call it good. I'd wait for one of them to give a definite answer though.

Just to poke at this, if 3 Meds lost to a Flamer at ANY range, you've got worse issues than the Flametank's balance. Also, Mammoth+Hoty beats a Flametank unless the Mammoth is also taking damage from other sources. Now not that I want to promote exploiting physics in RenX or anything, but Meds have like a 50+% chance of just running right up to Flametanks, ramming them, and putting them at too awkward of an angle to actually hit the Med. If this was Islands, well then that's literally just Flametank territory. Tight spaces and corners just kind of cater to them, but backing away from them still isn't that much of an issue.