yosh56

There's a reason rushes with Med tanks look like they do more damage than a stack of Meds sitting back bombarding a building. Travel time and projectile speed have a lot to do with kill-time buildings. No you don't change the DPS per say, but when a building is taking 2.4 damage every time the mouse is clicked as opposed to every time the mouse is clicked, then the shell travels for a second is big. It may not seem like much when a building is not being repaired, but the delay quickly adds up when you throw on just one Engineer. It's hard to explain without a video putting them side-by-side, but generally being closer overpowers repairs far greater than bombarding. I know what you're looking at though. EDIT: This actually hits Gunner harder if you have to reload, as first rocket takes full travel time into consideration.

Planetside 2 is a testament to the fact that no matter how freakishly bad at aiming your team is, 10-15 people firing automatic weapons in someone's general direction is just plain overpowering. And yes, Grenadiers are basically easy-cash units on Volcano

Well that's sort of the point of losing buildings: you lose the ability to do things. That's why Hotwires and Techs need to know that they're very high priority targets once the Bar is down. Can't agree with mines being OP at all. I literally just disarm 2/5 in a doorway then walk through the last 3. It's faster and if you don't throw your body at them you take a lot of reduced splash damage. Still under the impression that mine/explosive resistance should be looked into for certain classes. We had some of it in OldRen, but I've got a feeling it was one of those concepts that never was able to come to full fruition before the game lost support(Like CnC Glacier's Repair pad and the very-rushed Aircraft). It already feels like infantry take more splash damage from tanks in X vs. OldRen, and it's not like resistances to explosions/mines suddenly make them OP or anything (so long as it's the right classes that have it). It just kind of makes them able to supplement infantry rushes better. Think LCG Blackhand with all that armour, and perhaps all of the TRUE Anti-tank infantry.

RoF is the same regardless of how far away you are, dps doesn't change with distance. The rocket soldier's rockets travel pretty slowly. There definitely is a difference between there being 3 seconds of travel time between rockets hitting, and being point blank so that their ROF is the exact amount of time between damage. He seriously is capable of doing much anything, aside from takin down Aircraft. Seriously Patch rushes need to become a thing on maps with no defences. ...well of course it isn't bad in YOUR hands. You basically own with any infantry weapon you use =p. Also, I need to update that figured then.

I basically wrote a 30,000+ word monstrosity of a guide for Renegade X, but while I'm building a table of contents for it, and proofreading and moving things around, I figured I'd post one of the more interesting pieces from it. Formatting may be a bit weird, but I'm basically forced down into using an IPad and forum formatting. Basically emphasising how ridiculously powerful infantry get in Renegade when they get into groups. They are actually more potent than vehicles for several reasons. ----- Mid-Game Infantry ----- While working in groups is where infantry shine, if your team isn't filled with those who know how to press 'Y' or 'F3' and speak constructively, then you can still be somewhat productive. I'll highlight a few units that are worth it to go alone with, but then I will go over how infantry in Renegade can get very powerful very quickly. When I say very powerful, I mean borderline overpowered. INFANTRY DEFENCE ---- If you've ever had the misfortune of fighting a team that killed the enemy's vehicle production first, then you know how much of a pain defending infantry are. Here's just a short list of why it's annoyingly difficult to break infantry defence. +10 bulky vehicles have to group up into a very noticeable and easily attacked group. 10 PICS can be spread along walls, behind cover, behind you, above you and poking out of a tunnel entrance. It's far harder to contend with them than it is to contend with an obvious mass of vehicles. + Infantry can run away and heal much faster than vehicles. While you back up and try to find a technician to heal your 700 damage over the course of 10 or 15 seconds, they find the nearest PT and press E/R to instantly be able to do that same damage right back to you. +Lastly, people get slightly more coordinated when they're offered limited resources. -Defending against other infantry +Keep at least one person camping on the front entrance of your base if you don't have base defences. This is particularly important for GDI, as SBHs are notorious for getting in just through GDI's sheer lack of awareness at the front entrance. Nod should also keep an eye on their front entrance. As stupid as it sounds, Hotwires have a tendency to just walk in the front door. You don't want to be the reason your Hand of Nod just spontaneously combusted. +Once more reiterating that both Q-spotting and textually calling out masses of infantry and vehicles is extremely important. Team-chat is your friend. +Sticking with calling out enemy rushes, somebody should always be scouting. Camping is fine and dandy if you're down to just infantry in an All-Out-War with little time left, though still it helps to have somebody up near the enemy base to keep tabs on them. +Mine the tunnels if it's infantry vs. infantry. If you don't have to be worried about APC rushes you can spare a few mines for the tunnels. -Defending Against Vehicles +Always have a (few) Möbius/Mendoza in base. If you hear that a rush is coming, and it's already left their base, this or a Hotwire is probably what you should be buying. +Get PIC/Railguns if you hear that a rush is being constructed. While the Volt rifle is amazing at closer ranges, and out-DPS's every other weapon vs. vehicles, it still relies on vehicles getting close before being effective. The PIC/Railgun allow vehicles to be picked off before they ever reach the base, or at least leave them damaged to the point of being Volt Rifle fodder. +If you've got the cash, anti-tank mines are a no-brainer. +EMP grenades(as of Beta 3) are useful for stopping entire vehicle columns if thrown in the right place at the right time. Aim one for the lead vehicle right when they hit a choke point, and watch the ensuing traffic jam. (Little bit OP, but use 'em while you can) +If you're currently without a Barracks or HON, the heavy pistol does decent damage to both light and heavy armour. INFANTRY OFFENCE ------ The rarely exploited gem that is infantry in Renegade (X). Coordination and team-chat are two of the most harped on subjects in the entire game, but nowhere does it bare quite as much fruit as when people realise infantry are just plain amazing when grouped correctly. Many will yap about Gunner rushes, and those are good, but there are so many more groups of infantry that can accomplish other very important tasks. Base-killing infantry rushes --------- -Engineer rushes- Referring to those done without an APC or vehicle support. Engineer rushes are actually pretty common. From just a few engineers darting through the tunnels or field at the beginning of the game, to actually getting a massive group of them to rush in after the game is already going, these rushes are notorious...for looking menacing, but often failing miserably -Why they fail +You have a mass of infantry that have no defence from long range weapons, and if a halfway smart vehicle comes along it's just going to turn into a shooting gallery. +The rush is lead in some direction that isn't even remotely well thought out. This happens a lot on Walls, where everyone has a tendency to just run right through the middle and into the tunnels, or on Islands where the short tunnel is used even though it's the most obvious place to go. +EVERYONE BUNCHES UP. If you're not scattered in any way, you're just going to end up giving somebody a massive boink when they chuck a remote C4 right in the midst of the group. This also goes for rushing mines, as only one person is really necessary to set most of them off. +You can't defend yourself properly in a building without sacrificing your ability to also destroy said building. You either throw your remotes to help kill defenders, or you switch to your pistol. Either way, you just wasted C4 or are in ineffectively gunning down people who can out-refill the damage of a silenced pistol. Either way, if they distract you, they win. +Finally, people bunch up in buildings, throw their remotes and accidentally stick remote c4 on the person in front of them. When you detonate it, you die and you contributed nothing...gg. -How they succeed +Have at least half be engineers, the rest can be something capable of fighting. Considering you are likely to end up close-quarters at some point, shot-gunners are a pretty good choice for these. If you still have a barracks/HON then Advanced anti-infantry units are great additions. 1k infantry are also excellent at clearing mines, be it an expensive sacrifice. If you are an engineer with some money, break out a carbine if you can. +The rush chooses to go somewhere where resistance is minimal or non-existent, and where everyone won't necessarily get funnelled into a shooting gallery. Good examples of this are using the sides on Walls, or jumping and parachuting off the plateau on Walls. Islands and Volcano are two maps where the field is often a good choice for infantry rushes of all kinds. Engineers on both sides have access to a relatively close building on both of these maps. +People don't all try to fit in a mined doorway at the same time. Trust me, somebody is going to rush it, but you don't have to be that guy. +Finally, these rushes work best when everyone is not right on top of each other. This prevents being easily dispatched by C4, and makes it easier to throw remotes on the MCT, as opposed to some guy's head, once you do make it inside. -Rocket Soldier rushes- (ranged) These are surprisingly rare considering the number of advantages they have. You have the potential to destroy a building on top of having a relatively cheap investment. It's usually not that difficult to acquire just over 200 credits, not to mention the amount you make back just for damaging buildings. Actually destroying buildings is a bit difficult however. -Why they fail (to destroy the target) +There simply aren't enough people involved. Again, 10 rocket soldiers is almost enough to 3-shot a structure. With such a slow reload speed between rockets however, it is hard to get off more than 3 or 4 shots before the target goes under repairs, especially if attacking from far away. +Choosing an obvious path and getting spotted before you're in position. Try to at least hide the fact that you're rushing. The element of surprise is crucial here. +Making your target obvious. If you strike a building and the enemy gets the warning that it's under attack, then of course they're going to respond to it. +Firing before everyone is in position to fire. It takes a second to get a clear shot if there's 10 other people with you. . -How they succeed +Get at least half of the team on board. In a 20v20 leaving 10 people to defend and fight in the field is more than enough. +Mass inside of a building, and rush when you know the field is mostly clear for you to get in position without getting spotted. +Attack a decoy building first. For instance, on Walls as GDI, attack the Hand of Nod with the first volley, then attack your real target (The PP or Ref) after Nod has received the warning that the HON is under attack. This is especially effective if you do a significant chunk of damage to the decoy building. +Everyone fires on command. Indeed there will be idiots, but if everyone fires when they're told to (either by team chat or radio command) you get the most burst damage out of your volleys. -Rocket soldier rush- (Actual rush) These are probably the rarest of the rare as far as rushes go. Most people don't think of rocket soldiers as rushing material, but after you've seen a group of them get inside of a building you'll change your mind. -Why they fail +Nobody thinks it will work in the first place. +Not enough people to accomplish it. +A lack of weaponry to fight far off infantry, +Trying to fight infantry out of enclosed spaces. You don't have the ammo for that. -Why they succeed +Nobody expects them to be rushing into the base. If they see a group of rocket soldiers, they just assume you'll be shooting at something from afar. +You acquire at least 5 people to fight with. 5 rocket soldiers are capable of splash damaging most infantry to death without the need for having even the slightest hint of aiming ability. Stick to tight spaces and you win. +Buildings are enclosed spaces...you have a rocket launcher that's like ranged remote C4 vs defending technicians. +You can damage buildings even while you splash damage infantry inside of them. +You do ridiculous amounts of damage to the MCT. If all five of you can make it inside, the reward for all hitting the MCT is roughly a third of the building's health. Technicians and engineers HAVE to kill you to save the building. -Gunner rushes- (Ranged) These are kind of like rocket soldier rushes except that Gunner is literally the least exploited infantry unit on GDI. Nod has the SBH for a specialty. They're hard to see and can be a nuisance if you don't pay attention and keep the majority out of your base. Gunner however, is the bane of every tunnel war, can blast any other infantry unit to death without having to even hit them, is pretty good against vehicles, has ridiculous headshot damage, has near-infinite range, and fires faster rockets than the rocket soldier. Oh, right, and did I mention that if you can convince 11 Gunners to work together, you can down a building from anywhere you all can see it in 1 clip? Well, yeah, Gunner's that guy. -Why they fail +Not enough people. This is particularly sensitive in ranged rushes, as damage output is everything. Gunner's launcher takes quite some time to reload, so it's likely that you'll be getting out-repaired by the time you start firing again. +Getting spotted too early (See rocket soldier rushing) +People shooting too early, just like other rocket soldiers. +Not attacking a decoy building first. Just 1 person needs to give the enemy team a faulty warning message, the rest unload on the real target right afterward. +Range. Gunner is the infantry version of artillery, even so you get more damage in if your rockets are traveling less distance. -Why they work +Because most people who know about Gunner rushes come from OldRen anyway. They generally know how it works. + If you bring 11 Gunners to the party, and nobody shoots too early, your enemy has about 6 seconds to save that building. Six! No exaggeration. Also 10 Gunners emptying their clip leaves a building with about 5% health. The 11 is there just to make sure it is a 1 clip deal. +Have at least 6 so that you can destroy a building in only two magazines. Having 5 or less isn't recommended, as after 2 magazines it's likely Nod will respond to the building symbol going red on their screen. +Gunner is actually really good at dispatching infantry that get close. +He has an eye-patch. -Gunner Rush- (Rushing) Again, these are underused like Rocket soldiers rushing. A load of Gunners in a building is virtually unstoppable. -Why they fail +Bunching up and dying to mines/C4. Bunching up also makes it harder to shoot past each other. +Using the field when the tunnel was the better idea. Remember, you have one of the best anti-infantry weapons in the game, and you barely even have to aim. -Why they work +You basically win in enclosed spaces. Think of Gunner as having a C4 launcher. +You can pound a building from the outside while you work towards your real target. +You can easily kill newly spawned infantry with a rocket to the dome. +You have a large enough amount of health to split up mine damage. +The rocket launcher does copious amounts of damage to the MCT if you've got the time to fire at it. +You can let engineers and technicians learn what it feels like to lose to someone with crappy aim that just spams explosives. -LCG Blackhand rush- This isn't exactly Nod's style, but don't let that sway you. These guys have arguably the best anti-infantry weapon in the game, especially after the spin-up time from the first 2 betas was taken down. He's also not too bad at killing vehicles, especially when in mass. While it takes him longer to expend his clip, he also does the same damage to buildings that chem-troopers and Volt rifles do. -Why they fail +Nod is usually full of people that are SBHs, or only interested in rushing if it involves vehicles. +This guy doesn't have infinite range, nor the building busting power of Gunner. +I don't think anyone has ever even attempted a rush composed of these guys. -Why they succeed +You can basically fight anything in the game and win with the LCG. +If you have even remotely good aim and go for head shots you melt infantry health bars. +You have enough health to tank quite a few mines. +Somebody somewhere probably just set off a nuke that GDI is too preoccupied with to even pay you any mind. -SBH 'rush'- I refuse to call this a rush, as you're going to be infiltrating, not ground and pounding your way in. These are notorious enough that I don't really need to go over them, but I'll do it anyway. -Why they fail +Most SBHs suck terribly with the laser rifle, and they won't even shoot when they're caught. +The laser rifle kind of sucks if you're not on point with head shots. +GDI is usually more defensive than Nod +Some idiot gets caught and runs towards the rest of the group +People stupidly set down beacons instead of C4ing the very open building. +Someone doesn't play GDI enough to know how far away you can see stealth +It's not Whiteout -Why they succeed -Inexperienced GDI team. They aren't watching mines and nobody is patrolling in a Humvee. -3 timed C4s is silent and an insta-kill, very hard to respond to fast enough. -It's Whiteout - You probably brought nukes too, so plant them while you're at it. -There are literally players so new on GDI that they don't even know you're an enemy when you get close. -Mobius/Mendoza rush- These bastards are hands down the most powerful infantry in the game overall. They melt the bars of infantry and vehicles alike, and if you can grab 10 of them you almost guarantee a building kill. -Why they fail +Requires you to get close to reap the rewards. This is somewhat negated by Field's tunnel system, which allows both sides easy targets right at the entrance and exit points. +Take so long to coordinate, and mostly because they're expensive. These are late game stalemate breaker rushes. Only use them when success seems very likely. +Someone shoots too early. This is a precise rush: 10 Volt-rifle clips kills a building. You need to have all 10 of those clips go unopposed by healing however, and to do that you all need to be doing maximum damage from the beginning. +Not enough people. Again, 10 is the golden number here. It takes 5 seconds to expend a clip from the Volt rifle. That's 5 seconds to kill a building if you all hit simultaneously. -Why they succeed +The Volt rifle out damages anything that isn't a sniper rifle. +You can win infantry fights with just a few head shots. Vehicles are also unlikely to bother a group of Volt rifles if they can't outrange you. +Did I mention 10 Mobius' kill a building in 5 seconds flat? +5 Mobius/Mendozas can kill a building in 5 seconds if they get inside and hit the MCT. They can also defend themselves very well in CQC. - 1k Infantry mix rushes- These are the equivalent of free infantry rushes spawned from having no barracks or war factory. The difference is of course, that you have a barracks, and therefore you can concoct this massive force of pain and suffering. -Why they fail +No one brings along one or two necessary Hotwires +Too many Havocs, not enough Mobius' +These do actually draw a lot of attention when spotted. -How they succeed +With Mobius Havocs and PICs, you can fight anything that comes your way. A mixed group of 10+ is utterly devastating. +Combined 10 of you have 2500 points of hp that has to be chipped through. Swap out a 1k for a Hotwire, and you still have 2450 that now can be healed if the enemy leaves you alone too long. +All of that hp basically means you can break through small minefields easier than a Hotwire can stop and disarm them all. Healing takes less time. +If you have good Ramjets with you, you are virtually immune to free infantry. +PICs and Mobius will keep most vehicles far away. +If you bring a beacon along then you have the perfect team to cover it. Let snipers hang back while Mobius and PICs soak damage. If you've got a Hotwire running medic. They just add to the longevity of the tactic. Vehicle Killing Rushes ---- Remember how hard it is to get out of your base when you get locked in on maps like Field? Well, you may be surprised, it's probably in your best interest to solve your woes with mass infantry as opposed to vehicles. Vehicles get slaughtered in choke points due to their size, whilst infantry can roll 10 deep at base entrances and still have room to maneauver. This brings me to the next section of rushes dedicated to suppressing enemy vehicles with infantry rushes. Granted, these are not all rushes so much as masses, but they CAN be rushes. -Flanking engineer rush- While I wouldn't suggest massing engineers and running right up to a line of tanks, massing engineers and running up to the side of a line of tanks is a totally different story. -Why it's effective +Engineers can C4 tanks for the most burst damage output in the game. +Engineers are free, so losing them is no problem whatsoever. +Technicians can't out heal 4 remotes on a Medium tank/light or arty. -Negatives +Once you C4 the tanks, you're basically sitting ducks. This gives this rush 0 sustainability. +You have to make it up to the vehicles to C4 them. -Rocket Soldier Massing- I proved a ton of infantry masses successful in OldRen, and this was just one of them. Even in RenX there is plenty of merit to the rocket soldier rush to take the field. -Why it works +They're relatively cheap +Missiles lock in RenX, so you don't even need to be good at aiming to use them. +Just 4 rocket soldiers can output 220 damage to heavy armour. This is enough to overpower a Technician significantly enough to make most tanks at least back up a little. Get 8 people on board and your group one-shots all light vehicles with a homing projectile that has infinite range. +You have infinite range with them. You can fire from anywhere you can see them" +They are anti-aircraft. Snipers are nice for AA, but nothing is more disconcerting for an Apache/Orca than hearing the blaring of 4 lock-on alarms at the same time. +Just enough ammo to push a force back and keep pushing -Negatives +They fire somewhat slow, meaning multiple repairers can heal whilst you're not shooting. +There are better options if you have the money +There's not enough ammo to sustain the field for a substantial period of time. -Gunner masses- Gunner is actually worse against vehicles than you'd expect, but that doesn't make him bad at killing them. I don't think I need to harp on how Gunner is the most underexploited powerhouse on GDI. -Why it works +Gunners rockets don't lock, but they're much faster than the Rocket soldier's, meaning they can get away with being led less. +Gunner has 6 rockets a clip. At 40 damage a piece to armour, he is able to roll out 240 damage alone in about 6 seconds or so. So grab five of them and you can do 200 damage every second to a vehicle of your choosing. That's enough to kill anything but a Mammoth tank with one clip. +You are pretty capable of splash-damaging technicians to death if you shoot from high ground. +Minor sustainability in the field with having plenty of spare rockets. -Negatives +No homing means people will miss, and further targets can dodge. +Have to stay exposed a lot to get off all six rockets. +Still not as much staying power in the field as a PIC or Rav team -LCG Blackhand rush- These guys are obviously made for beating down vehicles. They do it a bit different than Gunner, but they're scary just the same -Why it works +The rapid loss of health makes most vehicles freak out just a little bit. +If they get behind enemy lines they can kill engineers very easily. +A group of 5 is able to produce about 180 damage every second. These guys can hold that for about 8 seconds, meaning if they hit all of their clips they can output a phenomenal amount of damage (over 1000) in a short time. This overpowers repairs fairly well, though not as well as burst damage does. +Their gun looks and sounds really cool. +They're actually pretty good on ammo, so they're minutely sustainable. -Negatives +You have to stay exposed the entire time you want to deal damage. +The entire time you're firing, there's a bright red line drawn right to you. + Sustainability in the field is still not the best, but definitely capable of pushing vehicles out of a base and stopping a second surge. -Patch Massing- This wouldn't make sense in OldRen, but with his new weapon Patch is actually a decent vehicle counter. -Why it works +Tac-rifle does 6 damage a shot to armour. 50 shots, 8 rounds per minute, and you've got a recipe for damage. + 5 Patches can focus fire to achieve about 240 damage in a second on a target. That's not even a full clip...that's just a second. Congratulations, 5 Patch's are capable of killing a buggy in just over a second, and if they all hit they can kill a light tank in under 3 seconds. Holy hell...why aren't we spamming these more? +A single Hotwire or tech heals 40 damage a second...Patch can output 48 per second by himself. +...Patch OP + He's fairly good at killing engineers as well. +He has enough ammo to be in the field for awhile. -Negatives +Tacrifle can be a bit inaccurate at range. +Projectiles can be a little slow. +Range isn't exactly phenomenal + Again, the weapon is DPS based, so you must remain exposed a lot to reap the overpowered rewards. -SBH field mass- This one is iffy. Having a team full of SBHs is a recipe for disaster, as a majority of their time will be spent not doing anything productive. -Why it works +You can steal some vehicles if you get out into the field. +Sneak up on a line of tanks and timed C4s can solve all of your woes. + A team of 5 is sufficient to cause about 200 damage a second, and if you force the enemy to turn around to combat you, the rest of your team gets free shots. +With a few carbines, you can silently dispatch engineers +You're the best anti-artillery unit available, considering you can walk right up to unsuspecting MRLS and c4 them in the back. -Negatives +SBHs turn many people into pansies when it comes to play style. +Your weapon is the loudest most obnoxious weapon in the entire game + Once you lose stealth it's easy to pick you off. +Only 1 stick of c4, and the laser rifle on its own isn't enough to make him sustainable -PICs/Rav massing- And now, the ultimate murderer of all things armoured...from range at least. PICs and Ravs are sometimes hard to understand. On one hand they cost 1000 credits, yet on the other their slow rate of fire makes you wonder if they are really worth the damage they output. Put them in a group, and that answer is hell yes. I've personally orchestrated a PIC rush to retake the entire field in OldRen, and not only did we get rid of every Nod vehicle infront of our base, but we stopped them from ever gaining mass again. -Why This Is So Effective- +PICs and Ravs both do 85 BURST damage to armour. That's a high starting number by itself for any weapon. + A group of 4 PIC/Railguns does 340 damage in a shot. That's more than the Obelisk of Light. On top of that, PICs/Ravs fire faster than the Obelisk +PICs/Ravs have 100% instantaneous projectiles. Coupled with the fact that it's just a high damage burst means you can all pop in and out of cover as you please between shots, meaning you don't have to be exposed for more than a half second or so. This also means hitting targets is basically a point-and-click adventure. +Even in low mass, the amount of damage per shot is so much that the ammo reserve can last for a substantial amount of time, meaning this group can hold out in the field long enough to establish an armoured foothold, or a vehicle rush -Negatives +Expensive +Not as much range as rockets +Big bright lines drawn in your direction every time you fire. +Is only good against engineers if you have the twitch reflexes, or luck for it. -Mobius/Mendoza mass- If the enemy is truly that unrelenting, and you can convince your team to grab enough of these, you can wipe out everything armoured in seconds. -Why it works +5 Volt rifles do 400 damage a second to vehicles. Hotwires heal only 40 a second. If you can somehow get 10 people to rush the front with Volt rifles, you can kill any tank in the game in less than two seconds. This is basically the equivalent of pressing the reset button on the field. +Projectile is instant and sustained so you can miss a little and still not have anyone notice. ~Negatives +No real sustainability. The Volt rifle runs out of ammo entirely too fast, but it packs enough bang to make it worth it. +Range is too short get to artillery in the back of the field. -Considerations For All Anti-tank infantry Masses- +Try to convince at least 1 person to run as a medical Hotwire/Tech, as you'll all be taking splash damage more than likely. +Use the terrain to your advantage. Keep yourself behind humps, rocks, and obstacles to make it virtually impossible for tanks to splash damage you to death. Stay away from areas where there are walls behind you. +Remember, tanks have to come into view before they can even fire on you. Fire the moment you see any part of them. Use the alt-fire on the a rocket soldier if the vehicle isn't entirely visible, otherwise it will try to lock-on and follow the middle of the vehicle. +Stay somewhat spread out. Most of your targets do splash damage, so obviously you want to be far apart, but still a cohesive group. This is where infantry shine over vehicles, as you take up much less space and are far more agile. +FOCUS YOUR FIRE. Q-spot targets, or try to watch what others fire at first. Someone will always shoot first; consider it Anti-tank-follow-the-leader Free infantry vs. Free infantry ------- This requires the most participation in game to work correctly. This is literally a fight where both teams are on their last leg, so you're working with the least effective methods possible. However, this doesn't mean you're down and out, and it doesn't have to be a total stalemate. -YELL AT YOUR TEAM Seriously, there's no more lone-wolfing when it's down to free-infantry vs. free infantry. NOBODY CAN SOLO ANYTHING WITH A FREE INFANTRY. The only free infantry capable of soloing a building is the GDI grenadier, and that is only if he gets to the MCT and is then allowed to expend 4 full clips of his launcher along with his timed C4. If the enemy can't respond to that then they just deserve to lose. It's time to set aside lone-wolfing entirely at this point. There should at least be groups of 3 doing things. -Control all of the crates- There are multiple crates on every map. The crates in the field are the most important as they have a higher chance of spawning vehicles when the team that gets them has no WF/Strip. The infantry only crates are also important however, as they can offer necessary credits if the Refinery is down. More importantly, getting an advanced infantry unit is very powerful when there is nothing but free infantry on the map (Especially getting a 1k sniper). Just considerations for crate-whoring: +Field crates are most important. Try to hold the crates on both sides, but at least focus on maintaining your own. +If you get an advanced character class, stop getting crates. Help maintain control of it with your stronger weapon however. The reason for this is to avoid getting a death crate and losing your unit. +If you get a vehicle, and you're not in a dire situation where you have 5 minutes to try something or lose, then use it to hold crate control. Don't immediately go out and lose the one vehicle on the field. Try to maintain control and amass several vehicles before going out and risking your assets. +If you end up acquiring a transport helicopter, don't immediately use it. Sit it in the back of your base (don't let it get stolen) and wait awhile to let the enemy forget you have it. Alternatively you can grab 2 others to mount the guns on it and use it for crate control. +Spy crates are a might bit less effective here, as everyone knows the likelihood of seeing a character class unit is slim. Still, I've used spies effectively in weird situations, so it's not impossible. -Mounting rushes as free infantry- Rushing as free infantry requires an 'almost' impossible amount of perfect execution on top of needing massive amounts of participation. I've seen few started, and fewer work, though admittedly the reason for their failures generally stems from people bunching up too much. Then again, one was just unlucky enough to run into a flame-tank rush...I'll let you guess how that ended. +Get at least half of the team involved. Too few people will just end up in failure. If there's barely any buildings left then a large portion of most teams will be camping in their base making it difficult to sneak in. Brute force is basically necessary at this point. +Try to go for high-value targets. Not every rush needs to be going for buildings; if the enemy has a single vehicle left, run it down and get rid of it. If they have a sole Technician or Hotwire to replace mines, get rid of them to rid yourself of mine issues. Infantry rushes become far more terrifying when people actually have to shoot at them to stop them. +Multi-nuke/ion only if your enemy is not on absolute guard. I'll go into this more later, but the main way to have these work with free infantry is to have some element of surprise. If you've done 4 rushes from all sides for the past 5 minutes, dropping beacons is just going to give the enemy a ton of points. They -will- defend it. +Use multiple marksmen as cover fire for beacons. Place the beacons in spots where engineers will have to be exposed to marksmen fire to disarm them. The marksman rifle may be free and kind of bad, but it is more than capable of 2 shot head-shotting a free engineer. Even if you make the engis dance to dodge, they're effectiveness at disarming is hindered. +If the team is rich, just let everyone bring beacons. You're all probably going to die...might as well increase your odds. +Don't rush so much that your enemy just sticks to camping where they know you'll be coming from. Alternate between rushes and crate-whoring so that rushes become less predictable. Besides, infantry rushes become easier after you suddenly have a Mammoth tank from a crate to cover them. -----

Exactly. Most of these scenarios are won by just 1 or 2000 points difference. Having a small point creep just aids in letting the attacking team continue to try and actually win, but still punishes them for just THROWING themselves at an enemy. The constant flow of points to the enemy also makes it much more difficult for the defenders to just get away with camping it out as well.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm still a good 10+year vet that can think through a situation, but I'm also pointing out that the cost-effectiveness of A tech-arty is ridiculous, and why from range it is basically impossible to win that fight. Also, to just rush down an arty and kill the tech, you have to tank several shots from the artillery. This also doesn't help offset he fact that juggling sometimes requires some lucky angles. I know, I do it to kill flame tanks. Also, rushing an Artillery from anything beyond short range means you have to leave your own repairs, or have the, get in, and for the entire duration you're not being healed you're doing 8 damage to 92. Also, decent Techs can usually find spots to protect themselves from splash damage, so you're not going to be hitting them for significant damage until you're literally right on top of them. Also, we're still looking at a ridiculous cost ratio if we factor in that a 1000 credit Havoc, 350 credit Hotwire and 800 credit Med can FINALLY take on a 450 arty and a 350 tech. That's 800 to 2150. Seriously, look up old games of Renegade, eventually people will figure out that Tech+arty in mass beats pretty much anything GDI throws at it. And if it loses, GDI has to lose far more in the process. Also, advanced repair gun in general could use some looking at. Got poked at quite a bit in OldRen, and got extremely toned down in the mods for it. On topic however, I'm mostly looking at the fact that light armour has a tendency to benefit far more from repairs, especially considering what vehicles classify as light. They can run faster, heal to 100 faster, and in the Art's case, become a front-line unit suddenly.

HELL YES, YOU KNEW I'D BE COMMENTING ON THIS! Trust me, you're not the first to bring this up, and Im still on the verge of just outright calling out Hotwires and Techs overpowered. They were a bit sketchy in OldRen, then RenX haphazardly buffed them with sidearms and sprinting. Now, I can't agree with everything here, but I'll break it down to show that you're not crazy, but some of it is just a lack of ever playing on good teams. Engineers aren't really OP. They've got remotes, they can sprint and throw them, but they're really only strong in a base (enemy or friendly). Their repair gun...actually makes sense, so I don't dock them any points there. Aside from them being able to hold Tib-rifles and Carbines, they're alright in my book. Technicians and Hotwires...they really are basically the only unit you need aside from snipers and vehicles. It's always an argument that needs so much cherry-picking to beat that it's harder not to just admit it. Seriously, throw a bulleted list of a Technician vs. a Mobius down and it is astounding that for 350+125 for a carbine, you're basically the most cost-effective unit in the entire game, on top of being able to do everything else other classes can't. Technician can: -close-range dish out 400 damage almost instantly with remotes to vehicles. 2 timed C4s do another 800, meaning for 350 you can solo a Mammoth tank when close enough. You literally JUST need to get close, and if they're close to your base it isn't difficult, and the amount of time to unload all of that C4 is far less than any weapon in the game can delve out damage. You don't even need to LIVE to see the timed C4(aka 800 damage) go off. Even basic engineers can still get an easy 400 damage through remotes. -Heal infantry. Granted, till we think of an alternative method we're going to need to leave that alone. -Disarm mines. That's cool, it's very engineer-ish of them. -Heal vehicles. That's cool too, except DOUBLE the repair rate from the engineer's repair gun is a bit game-breaking (tech/arty anyone?) -Capture structures. That's pretty CnCish, I guess. -Carry weapons that make them at least as good as a tier 2 infantry combat-wise vs. infantry. The carbine and flechette gun in particular give TTKs close to that of a Volt Rifle with head shots. -Suicide with remotes if he's about to lose in an infantry fight. Remote's splash means he can kill characters costing more than himself without even needing to be that close in terms of aiming. -Disarm beacons. That's fine, as we can't have everyone walking around disarming beacons, as that'd make it a little too simple. What can't they do? They can't snipe, and they can't engage vehicles at long range. That's really about it. In beta 1, when sidearms were broken and didn't go away till the round ended, I literally just played a Tech/Hoty with a carbine 90% of the game. No real point if you needed to get everything done. At least sidearms cost money more than once now. Right, and about that 1000 credit Mobius: -Can kill vehicles at short to short-moderate ranges. Does 400 Damage over 5 seconds. The FREE engineer can do this at short range in about 2 seconds. -Can solo a building very loudly, and takes about 30 seconds to do so at the MCT, and with the enemy knowing he's there due to warnings. -Can very effectively kill other infantry when they get shot in the face. He's also 1000 credits. -Volt Rifle turns people into skeletons =D As for what Mobius can't do. Well, he can't snipe, like the Engineer, and can't engage at long range. He also can't disarm the mines at the door to get inside of a building (though tier 3 health is admittedly good at tanking mines if you walk). He can't suicide and blow himself up if he's about to die in an infantry fight. Alright, it only seems slightly imbalanced in the Tech's favour, but then let's remember that I just compared a 350+125 credit "support" unit to a 1000 credit killing machine. So yes, the Technician is sort of an end-all-be-all unit. Don't get me wrong, you can kill other infantry faster with some more expensive class...but infantry aren't buildings, buildings are buildings. As for the point situation however, yes repair-whores are usually at the top of a team, but no you don't need to be an Engi/Tech to be up there. Snipers who can actually snipe well are up there as well, and if you're actively hitting vehicles with anti p-vehicle weapons a lot then that provides a lot of points too. Mines aren't going to change, and there's good reason for it. I've already had to explain this one before, and I'll go find the topic with my long drawn out explanation of why mines are how they are in Renegade, but I'll have to hunt it down later. For now I just say that Renegade is a team game, and no one person is really supposed to have all the power to just run and gun into a base. Servers with ridiculous mine limits may make them an issue, but as others have said, generally mines aren't going to be everywhere. Also, the Grenadier and Flamethrower aren't really anti-structure classes meant for infiltrating. They're just the classes that can actually damage structures from the outside. Higher tier classes actually tank mines rather well, though I kind of wish they would add in explosive resistances for certain characters (Like Gunner and the LCG BH) to let them be some form of alternate mine countermeasure. Again, you can tank a fair bit of mines even as a free soldier. One free soldier entering a base isn't much of an issue, and it really isn't supposed to be. Umm, plenty of people APC/Transport heli rush. Again, it's supposed to take some form of coordination to take down a building, unless you're an infiltration god with a Hoty...like me >_>. Five mines at the door only stops 1 free infantry, so the rest can just waltz right in. People completely underestimate the overpowering ability of infantry. You can't fit 10 Meds into a small area, but damn if you can't fit 10 Mobius in a tunnel entrance and kill a building in 5 seconds from the outside. (No exaggeration, it is 5 seconds for 10 Volt rifles) Infantry are pretty potent when mixed with vehicles. PICs and Railguns are the only weapons that can do that much damage instantly in one shot with no travel time. Snipers(1000 credit snipers) only really start feeling overpowering if you don't have ANY counter snipers on your team. Can't help a team issue. Agree that other infantry need something. We have 14 classes, and only 2 have special abilities (Chem trooper and SBH) and 1 can cover most of the other's responsibilities to make them seem sort of obsolete. Could use some balancing/differentiation on the infantry front. As for that being your experience with games so far...just sounds like bad teams vs. bad teams on Walls. GDI can literally stop most infiltration with 3 people on defence that know what they're doing (except Whiteout...screw Whiteout). That leaves 17 or so other people to drop the hammer on Nod, and honestly most players have no idea what to do with Nod after stealth doesn't work. Moving in groups is good, but moving in groups also just leads to Planetside 2 syndrome. I'm an avid player of the game, but even in a platoon there's a lot less coordination, and just more 'there's a crap ton of people in this area'. Ren is smaller, requires a lot of talking amongst the other 15-19 people in game to actually win.

After really thinking about, the Refinery could be completely rebalanced if we made the harvester a larger part of the game. Kind of like CampingJeff mentioned, let the small flow of credits remain independent of the Refinery's status (would need to drop to like 1.5-1 however), and increase the Harvester's load to something around 5-700. This both lets broke people stay somewhat relevant, and makes the Harvester's role a bit more noticeable. Honestly, on maps where the Harvester doesn't follow a path that puts it RIGHT in harm's way (Field/Wall) many times the Harvester is overlooked after the first drop. Lowering the overall economy, but not making it come to a grinding halt helps solve both people people just waiting around for money (You'd actually have a bigger reason to defend the Harvester), and just overall helps keep the Harvester relevant. You know, aside from being the monster truck that gets in the way of everything. The only time I see this becoming a huge problem is on maps like Islands where the Harv is very hard to get to. Field would...well it would still just be field control.

Yet again, by 'simple' I'm referring to basically being able to implement it without needing to necessarily add much. Maps give way to needing to have fog-of-war, or only showing spotted targets, and that presents whole new balance issues on it's own. Being able to just flag a character as a commander, then enable them a few functions like placing rally beacons, picking out targets, and keeping the harvester from being retarded can all be done from ground-level.

Topic's been discussed before, and while I've still never been on an actually good team that lost by points when the enemy team had only a few buildings left. They were always teams that got in one or two lucky rushes, then just kept trying the exact same tactic over and over like the other team wouldn't just be sitting there with the same weapons in the same spot to negate whatever they were doing. On the contrary however, I do believe there should be more reward for destroying a structure point-wise. One system I thought of was giving a point-tick per second for every building destroyed. This simulates momentum and attrition. For instance, after one building is destroyed, the team that destroyed the structure would get 1 point per second thereafter. If another structure went down that would up to 2 and so on and so forth. This would help offset the issue that arises from free infantry giving virtually no points, while the vehicles they kill give a comparatively massive amount away. Not everyone on the team mind you, just the actual team score.

The Refinery I've never had a problem with, but I could manage if it only cut your economy in half (then again on maps with a silo losing the ref isn't a huge game-'ending deal) Powerplant doubling everything's cost still sits fine by me, so argue that with someone else. Barracks and Hon: I liked APBs system of still being able to purchase officer class characters. Especially for the fact that you're a bit too SOL vs. aircraft when the barracks goes down in Ren. WF: Could keep the Humvee, and maybe Transport helicopter, but honestly I'd prefer if units could only be flown in and dropped off via chinook. Had a system like that implemented on a few Renegade servers. Just leave it to light vehicles however. Then again I'm perfectly fine with the way it is now, but I can be flexible...bitter! but flexible.

You don't do 'full' damage with weapons to light armour. You just happen to do damage with all weapons to it. Since beta 3 auto rifles DO damage heavy armour, and it's actually quite significant (not overwhelmingly so, but still significant). You can chip away a good chunk of health with a clip from an auto rifle. I'm sorry, but Bro, do you even math? You do nowhere near the same damage to light armour as you do to infantry. Just look at a Havoc and a Humvee. Havoc has 50 more HP than a Hummer. Now shoot him in the chest with an auto rifle, and shoot a Humvee with the same rifle, see Havoc keel over far before that Humvee. ....I know, I mention that several times. Half of this topic didn't even have to do with what could hurt light armour, it has a lot more to do with the fact that Light armour units (The Art especially) can get far more out of hand through the lack of modifiers when it comes to repairing and anti-vehicle weapons. I mean, hell, Patch is currently capable of overpowering an Advanced Repair gun where Gunner can't.

Well, I'm back with my usual topic of the week which I seem to have just made a thing. I tend to play Rengade a lot, and I love it to freakin' death, but like anything I like looking at its flaws some too. Anyway, this topic STILL somehow manages to be about Engineers-OP somewhere, but thankfully this has nothing to do with sidearms this time. --- I'm now a bit more aware of the damage done by weapons to Light armour and heavy armour, and I have to say that the fact that anti-vehicle weapons do the exact same damage to light armour as they do to heavy is a bit disturbing and a source of several imbalances. We'll try to keep this short sweet and to the point, so let's just start with possibly the most annoying Nod vehicle around, the Arty. On its own an Artillery isn't all that bad from a far-off glance. It loses to a Med head up, can beat an MRLS just due to travel time of projectiles and how they distribute their damage, and they do their job of being slow and in the back whilst pumping out heavy damage quite well. Alright, then we add a Technician behind it, and suddenly a 450 credit unit+ a 350 credit unit equals 800 credits that come out to probably the most cost-effective ranged weapon in game. Look up old, and even current, games of OldRen on YouTube and take note of how many fights just divulge into Nod spamming Techs and Arts. There's 'a good combination', but then there's a suspiciously great combination. Why does it change the Arty so much to put a Technician on it? Look at the numbers. ------------ A Medium tank does about 64 damage to armour, takes about 1.5 seconds to reload between shots, and has a fairly sturdy 800 HP of heavy armour. Solid unit. Nod's Artillery does +-92 damage to armour, takes about the same time (if not the same) as a Med to reload between shots, and has 400hp of Light armour. Head-up, with no cover, and perfect accuracy this is how a 1v1 fight ends Med vs. Arty. Fight lasts about 8-10 seconds. Artillery goes down first. Med is left alive with ~150hp High-damage or not, the Artillery basically proved itself able to force the Med into a state that is barely even a threat to Nod anymore, and the player did it by spending 350 less credits than the guy who bought the Med. Cost-effectiveness is okay, but at least the Med wins right? Alright, let's look at Tech-Med vs. Tech-Arty Advanced repair-gun heals Light and Heavy armour at 40dps, meaning that in the time it takes for both the Med and Arty to reload they can heal 56 damage. See the problem already? Good. Factoring in the repair gun and the reload time between shots, an Artillery does about 36 real damage per hit vs. a Med/Hoty. On the flip side, a Med does about 8 damage per hit against a Tech-Arty. Let's put the price into perspective before I even blow this rediculous confrontation out of the water. Med+Hotwire = $1150 Arty+Tech= $800 Surprise surprise, the Artillery wins head-up. At only 8 real damage per shot, the Med tank needs 50 shots to kill an Artillery with a Technician behind it. At about 36 real damage a shot, an Arty only needs ~23 hits to kill a Med. As a bonus, the Artillery comes out with over half of its health intact. Let's compare this to a Tech+Light Tank vs. a Hoty+Med. Taking away the damage the repair gun heals, we come out to the following damage numbers. Light tanks do 0 damage to Meds. Meds still do 8 damage to Light tanks. Just for numbers sake that's at least 75 shots for the Med to win. The Light tank literally can't win head-up. I guess they can rush down Engineers repairing, but that's about it. So, let's look at costs here. Tech+Light= 950 Med+Hoty=1150 So for 150 more credits Nod players can...not just lose, they can literally become negligible on the damage front. Okay, so where does this go? It goes down the road of 'breaking all the roles'. Seriously, the Light tank isn't supposed to go head to head with GDI's tanks, it's made to be fast enough to run after artillery, hit-and-run against engineer support, and have enough armour to keep its own Artillery support behind somewhat of a cushion. Unfortunately, as just pointed out, the Artillery can be its own cushion if you throw a Technician behind it. ---------- So what is that throws everything off? Does the Artillery need more nerfs: I'd say no. Is the Med in need of a buff: maybe, but only in one possible area. Does the Light tank need a buff : not really, it doesn't fight well head-up, but it has its own advantages. Does there need to be a bit more effort put into making 'light armour' mean more than just 'can be damaged by sniper rifles', that's very likely. Personally, I think only one thing can be changed here to bring A LOT of problems into better balance. The repair gun currently does not differentiate between light and heavy armour, but this leads to problems with Artillery, sometimes MRLS and even Aircraft. Let's just play with some numbers here. Currently the advanced repair gun heals 40 damage-per-second to light and heavy vehicles. Let's say we reduce that to 40 for heavy and 30 to Light armour. << This reduces the number of shots that a Med needs to kill a Tech'd Arty to 19...from 50. The Artillery would still need 23 shots to kill a Hotty+Med. The Medium tank is SUPPOSED to be more effective when closer however. The Artillery is a 'light' vehicle that's made to be protected, but is a massive damage dealer from afar; at no point should it be able to just become a main battle tank because of one person and a repair gun. >> Currently, with being able to heal light vehicles for 40DPS, you can literally negate the damage of the following weapons which SHOULD be hard counters to light vehicles: PIC/Railgun (85 damage, 3+ seconds between shots. That's a 40+ damage deficit with a weapon that costs more than any light vehicle and a tech, save for aircraft) Gunner's rocket launcher: (it does 40 damage and has a second between shots. It literally cancels it out.) Rocket launcher: (55 damage, reload time makes the damage completely negligible to a vehicle with a tech behind it. 50 cal on Humvee/Buggy : (Tech'd buggy vs Tech'd Humvee literally doesn't move one another's bars) Gun on APC: Same story as the APC. Light vehicles become immune to their weapons with one advanced repair gun. The Ramjet: You come out on top by about 160 damage...then the time it takes to reload completely negates it. The sniper rifle: 30 damage a shot. Just under a second to shoot again, but your damage is pretty negligible with only 4 shots. The Laser-Chain-Gun: literally does 39 damage a second, so the advanced Repair gun beats it by one. The Light-tank's gun: Already mentioned this. << Orca/Apache surfing is more of a problem from the fact that a Hotwire/Tech is capable of making an aircraft nigh-invulnerable under the right circumstances. Many of the weapons listed above are our Anti-Aircraft answers, and that is the largest reason aircraft surfing seems so ridiculously overpowered. Reducing the repair rate on light armour makes this much less of a broken tactic while still allowing some of its tactical value to remain. In fact, aircraft deserve their own armour category with an even lower repair rate to simulate their exit from battle that would be given if they had limited ammo (Like the RTS). It would also further negate the over effectiveness of putting Hotwires on top of Orcas. >> The other option to make light vehicles (looking at you, Arty) feel like they're not main battle tanks the moment you put a tech on them would be to modify damages for anti-vehicle weapons. As far as I can see now, most of them do the same damage to light and heavy. Perhaps looking into buffing them all vs Light armour would help keep light vehicles where they belong, which is not on the front-lines. This seems like a much more time-consuming process than nerfing the repair-gun vs. light armour however.

The Yosh will be there to harass hopefully

A) It's already possible B) Mining near the MCT makes it virtually impossible to take out the Airstrip, as you have to sit in a very obvious position to disarm the mines, and the Airstrip is usually a very high-traffic area for Nod. (Why anyone mines the door to the strip is completely beyond me.) C) It was doable in OldRen, it's why we all tried it immediately when beta 1 came out and confirmed that it worked in Ren X before the first day was even over. D) It isn't even remotely difficult to imagine someone jumping brought that window and hopping down in real life, let alone in-game. Don't think much of anything here is in need of changing. Nod has it easier getting in to set nukes, while GDI has better options for where to place ions (double ion the strip and ref/pp/Hon on Walls, or double ion the PP and Ref on Walls as well). Probably unintentional balance, but weirdly balanced nonetheless.

Indeed, I've never really felt like I was outgunned in a fight as an Engineer or Tech when I was carrying a Tib-rifle or flechette gun. Couple that with being able to keep both remotes timed and Proxy C4, and Techs start creeping up as the most cost-effective class you can play. As a point towards OldRen, there was a very good reason why many drop-weapon servers incorporated the system where it would add a weapon to your inventory, but depending on what class you were would determine whether you could use it. SBHs generally could pick up, but couldn't use sniper rifles for instance. Engineers generally couldn't use anything beyond free weapons (Thought hat included the shotgun which was a bit odd). It varied from server to server, but the point is that some classes really get broken when they can suddenly keep all of their benefits AND suddenly compensate for their weaknesses. On the same token, I feel like an opportunity to really differentiate the Flechette gun and the Tib-rifle lies here. Lower the magazine on the flechette gun and it essentially becomes a high-risk high reward sidearm with High rate of fire, great kill potential, but your accuracy has to be pretty phenomenal to really reap the benefits. Basically like what the devs seem to have been going for with the machine-pistol that's rarely used by any decent players. A good punisher weapon, but you can't really run through a competent group of players with it.

Carbine is OP, but I still didn't make this topic for that. I just made it to point out that it seems like there should be a distinction between sidearms(which replace the pistol) and a second primary weapon (which would have to make you give up C4)

For once I agree with Gozzy. I definitely think we have enough overcompensation for defence with the addition of EMPs and AT mines.

Well Yosh, about those SBHs... come to think of it, people started reporting seeing "stealthed" units throughout the map, regardless of distance due to an old GFX driver. Stealth is handled client-side. What if the communication for the observer of a stealth unit, isnt good enough to actually detect the stealthed unit on the screen? I'm starting to wonder if it's a plain oversight of the GDI player or just a visual bug that simply doesnt allow them to see the SBH. Seriously, last time on Walls, I was defending tunnels and main entrance, running in between them constantly. Either the stanks that got in knew exactly when and where I moved, or else it's just that... Same for SBHs. Tunnels mined, the gaps between the wall and the ramps mined, so only the main entrance needed to be covered. Still, stealthed units got in without me noticing. I'm not speaking from just my own perspective, I'm talking about the fact that I've not been anywhere to actually play in awhile. Watching YouTube videos of people playing while they very obviously walk right by stealth units that show up.

I feel like a large portion of the player-count falling had a lot to do with the lack of an auto-patcher. Not many pay enough attention to forums and websites to know they need to re-download everything. As for Renegade X itself, I see a balance of games with good and bad teams. Generally it comes down to WHEN you come on. Around the 6-10GMT timeframe is when I find actual decent people on. I also never run I to the 'no one repairs' issue. The only issue I run into is blind GDI players that completely walk right by SBHs. Other than onWhiteout, there's no real excuse for missing an SBH walking 10ft beside you. For the added stuff, I think some of it is 'okay', but like anything added to a game it has to be balanced. I feel like air strikes fit now, as they do enough damage to hurt but not kill, and they suppress repairs if placed right. They don't necessarily break the teamwork factor. EMP nades in and AT mines are...too new still. They have some serious balance issues that mostly stem from defenders getting it easier than they already had it, while attackers get nothing to compensate. We got the ability to replace the pistol with other weapons which is nice, and now you're not completely lost without a Bar or HON, but now Engineers can cover well over half of the roles that used to require other infantry. Again, it's a beta and a learning process;they can't account for everything that will change when they add something. As for teamwork related issues, those were present in OldRen too. It was just less prevalent in recent years since all that was left playing was those who knew how the game worked. Now we have to deal with 2002 all over again. Case-and-point being 'SBHs are overpowered', and Nod teams being filled with SBHs. The moment the stealth game gets shut down by a competent GDI defence then it becomes obvious that most people have no idea how to even play Nod beyond stealth. Balancing takes time; building a COMPETENT player-base takes time, and obviously development in general takes time. Remember, RenX isn't even a year old. (The UDK version anyway)

Med still one shot kills on head shots. The Light tank can depending on the infantry unit. Tier 3, and I think 2, can tank a Light tank headshot. I'm personally fine with this. Nod has the Arty for head shotting infantry. As for the Officers switching weapons, it makes sense in first-person. In third person there's no animation of them putting heir weapon away, so there's just an awkward delay. Also, how has nobody emphasised one of the most game-breaking bugs in game? Can we look into fixing glitched timed C4 on MCTs!?

That doesn't make him OP at all. He has a slower firing weapon with a decently long reload time. 25 damage per shot is honestly not that much when he's bound to be killed before he makes it through the clip.

Keyword there is 'supposedly'. Engineers are indeed a lot better at killing tanks defensively than the Grenadier and Flamethrower. ...Full suicide run with an engineer is 800 damage 2 remotes, 1 timed. It takes about 5 seconds to run up to this Mammoth and get the first 400 damage off. Then you throw the timed and die. If they're basically in your base, you can sprint back up to this same tank and do another 400 damage with remotes and your timed will do enough to kill it. This entire process literally takes about 30-40 seconds, and death doesn't really hinder it. Sorry but Engineers are way better at defence against armour than Flamethrowers. That's even more so now that we have sprinting. On topic: Flamethrower could use a small buff, but it's not supposed to replace shotguns for close range. Should at least give it a small buff to armour to make it justifiably weak to infantry.

Just to clarify all of this, I had no intention of really wanting the Carbine changed so much with this topic, I was just emphasising that it seems too powerful to classify as a 'sidearm', and doesn't make sense for it to replace the pistol. My main point was just that there should be a distinction between sidearms and second primaries. The distinction would be that sidearms (the a Heavy pistol, and maybe a better version of the near-useless Machine pistol) would replace the pistol. Weapons like the carbine are fine but they make no sense to replace the pistol, as it still let's classes, namely engineers, to keep ALL of their functionality AND be anti-infantry. Last I checked engineers/techs were supposed to be a support class. If they wanted additional firepower then make them give up something. Assault classes carrying a second rifle to supplement their first makes a bit more sense, though still it sort of starts missing the point of having class selection. It's not 'as' bad though, so long as they have to give up like a timed C4 to hold it, as opposed to their pistol.