yosh56

I'll think about it.... I mean, I do have a massive database of information to pull from. Hell, I could damn near write the thing with copy/paste from my guide, then just reword and reorganise stuff to better suit being on a wiki.

Comparing Havoc/Sakura to the Officer really is a terrible comparison. To a Mobius, yes. Havoc and Sakura aren't anti-infantry in the same sense that the Officer is anti-infantry. 1k snipers are expensive SNIPER units; they were never made to actually be front-line and CQC fighters, so the Officer beating them is completely fine, as it's kind of its job to be a CQC specialists. Mobius has enough health to wipe an Officer, and he's MEANT to be a CQC unit. OldRen may have let snipers be their broken selves, but the Devs have been actively moving away from letting servers become 'play a sniper or an Engi or a vehicle', which is basically what OldRen started to devolve in to. So long as the Officer's chaingun doesn't suddenly become 100% accurate and able to counter-snipe, it's fine in that aspect. That isn't to say the Chaingun might not need to be looked at a little bit though, as it currently does walk through infantry better than the LCG, and can spray far more for longer. Lower ROF or put it back down to 100-150 rounds per mag ----- I still don't get the issue with mines... they aren't even remotely hard to see unless you're blindly sprinting, in which case they're just serving as a punishment for your carelessness. Aside from on servers with ridiculous mine limits, they're probably going to always be in the same general area anyway.

I have more to say to this topic... but this... this is only looking at one aspect. What you fail to also put into perspective is: A) Patch has bullet travel B) The LCG also wtf hit-scan rapes infantry C) LCG is hitscan, so it can be used far more effectively against aircraft D) LCG actually damages buildings quite a lot.

This isn't about OldRen at all though, it's just about the best building-killers in-game. And yes, Beta4 haphazardly nerfed the Chem-soldier AND the Flametrooper against buildings. Truth... need to edit that. Not sure how I got 51... but unfortunately that just makes matters worse. I'm aware not all units are supposed to be good at everything, as Gunner has the advantage of being short-range anti-infantry whereas the rocket soldier does not. Still, he is supposed to be the building-killer for GDI in terms of infantry. On the note of infantry, Nod's are supposedly supposed to be better, though in reality GDI probably has it easier winning tunnel wars with Gunner and Grenadiers just being able to spam AOE. I wouldn't mind Gunner getting a nerf towards his AOE in favour of a slight increase to building-killing power. Maybe just enough to make him do a true 10% to the outside of a building, and a true 20% to the MCT with one magazine. PS. Didn't we supposedly have the issue of the rocket soldier being better against buildings than Gunner back in beta 1???

Excluding C4 (Hotties and Techs) I just want to see if anyone else sees anything wrong with these numbers. This is the weapon's TTK vs a building WITHOUT using the infantry's timed C4. I didn't include weapons that can't solo a building (save for the last one because it's kind of funny) #1 Rocket Soldier at 44 seconds #2 is shared by two candidates with the Volt Rifle and Grenadier clocking in at 45 seconds. Fun fact, it takes 36 grenades to the MCT to bring it down. #3 Gunner at 47 seconds [taking 31 rockets to kill at the MCT] #4 Laser Chaingun at 58 seconds #5 The Chem-Trooper.... he takes 1 minute and 10 seconds to get the building down to 1% and not even kill it without using C4 =( Just FYI, and because I'm fairly certain there's a SMALL problem in the tier system here.

Less about starting a balance argument, and more about the fact that it was a balance check that currently doesn't exist. It doesn't remove any of their capabilities

I can see it when you fight people that are very twitchy/jumpy due to connection problems... but that really wouldn't be helped by doing anything to the guns. Considering the number of weapons that are hit-scan now, I don't think this is all that much an issue. Hell, I'm still trying to figure out how people lose free-soldier vs. engi with a pistol. If you're moving a ridiculous amount, landing 12 shots with the pistol is a lot harder than landing 10 headshots with the gun with the near-infinite clip.

Oh I don't mind smoke nades at all, I just mind the fact that the one largest balance we had for them currently isn't in place for the one class that needed that balance most.

This is something we touched on in a beta testing session or two, but we never really remembered to get loud about it. Hotwires and Technicians keep ALL of their weapons after buying a smoke grenade. It lets you switch between proximity mines and the smoke grenade on the PT screen, but if you choose the smoke grenade you will have the smoke AND your mines. On top of this, the balance is a bit broken by the fact that Hotties and Techs keep their two remotes and two timed C4s even with smoke grenades. The entire balancing factor behind smoke (as was discussed before) was that it would replace C4 on infantry. Unfortunately, the one infantry that has the most C4 is the one where it does not do this.

Umm, not being OP is a good thing. Mammy is probably one of the most balanced things in the game finally... aside from its current game-breaking ability to....not shoot.

Airdrop was kinda' rushed in its making; it's all done by GDI helicopters for now, as aesthetics/polish was less important than getting it in in a working, balanced state.

You're aware that the only free infantry that were changed were the Grenadier, Flamethrower and Marksman, correct? 2 of those suck entirely after about 20-30 ft, and the Marksman being moved to hit-scan is something that should have been done ages ago as it's there to be a soft-counter to sniper-rape when you can't buy sniper classes. 1K units honestly don't feel underpowered at all to me after the changes. PIC can still OHKO anything in the face, and so can the Ramjet. Volt Rifle got a small primary fire nerf to rate of fire, but that also just makes it more controllable and better on ammo, as well as still out-DPSing even the laser chaingun. Shotguns.... shotguns haven't changed since B3. They've been more than just a little overpowered, namely due to their range being entirely too damn far with their extremely random spread (even when you zoom in). Autorifle still feels free, Grenadier is 'better' but still an easy kill for anything that doesn't just happen to have like 50hp left, and the flamethrower is in the same boat: better but not insanely so. I... I haven't even seen anyone use the machine-pistol, so I don't know. I just always use the not-so-silenced pistol. In terms of vehicles... the only numbers that changed were the light armour damages to virtually all weapons (save for Tac-Rifle and LCG). This is so we can move away from having to have a freaking sniper rifle be our sole anti-light unit. Rocket launchers are the only weapon I know of that was buffed against heavy armour, and it shoots slow enough to only be of a nuisance to most heavy vehicles, (It does a little bit more than getting hit with a cannon, and shoots about half that speed), and just a 'good' deterrent vs' light vehicles. It also is a much better alternative for anti-air now, which again is for the sake of letting us let snipers be good at what they're made to be good at, as opposed to being the class that can do everything but decimate a tank brigade.

Patch was hit-scan for a moment in B4 during testing.. I just want you to think about the OP prospect of that. His projectile speed is one of his only downsides, especially considering he completely negates a Technician's repair rate.

But I can do donuts with the handbrake now =(

Think he's asking what the nuke animation is, and if it's different than OldRen... I like this thread, it's like its own game.

Again, second currency is something that fixes so many problems (and will probably add new ones, but nothing's perfect.) +2 for Veterancy system. I still would rather it be VP for Veterancy points though, if only because it's more CnCish. Agreed with Hate long before Hate ever even said it. When we were jamming about the idea of airdrops in that topic long ago, I'd mentioned that it'd make less sense to have them still be tied to credits for several reasons. I honestly think this would be better off as a server-side option that controls how much you get with a dead Ref. +.5 might be better than 1... but it'd be different depending on game-type/size and such.

Looking for how much damage you can do how fast, vs. looking for TTK are two totally separate measurements in my book. Hell, an APC/Buggy can kill a building, but the amount of time it takes isn't really a relevant thing to know for all practical intents and purposes. In terms of practicality, knowing the DPS of an LCG doesn't overpower a repair gun's DPS is far more helpful of a statistic than ever knowing how much its theoretical DPS is over the course of 30 seconds. Knowing that while you're firing with Patch at a Tech'd Arty you're COMPLETELY negating the repair gun is a practical piece of information. So no, it's not only useful for infantry situations.

LOL. Right. Thats what it is? It slipped my mind completely. Its just something we talked about in one topic, I guess I didn't really expect to see it. Nice! That doesn't say how exactly they're implementing it, but nice! I can finally say... it is EXACTLY that, and it's kinda' beautiful.

DPS calcs for every rapid-fire weapon is relevant... and there are a lot of those. The Volt-Rifle, LCG, Laser Rifle, Autorifle, Chaingun, TacRifle, Machine Pistol, Carbine, Repair Gun, APC's minigun, Orca/Apache's guns, Chinook's guns, Humvee+Buggy's guns. Yeah... they're useful for a lot of things if you get my drift.

The PIC is a burst-fire weapon that can only fire once every 3 seconds... there's virtually no reason to ever consider what its supposed 'dps' is over looking at what you'd actually want to know, which is its TTK vs. [instet object] here. Also, Stanks.

When you go for very long-term periods of firing then maybe damage over X seconds is useful, but considering most of the time you are only going to be firing for a short amount of time (e.g <10 seconds) with anything other than the repair gun it becomes a moot point. Actually, this whole discussion is a moot point because it has nothing to do with the topic. I'm still using DPS, as I'm fairly certain anyone who reads it is smart enough to determine that the weapon reloads at some point. It'd be like not using 'round per second' because you didn't factor in reloading. Either way the weapon still spits out X rounds per second for whatever magazine it's on. Done with topic-hijacking.

Great to know that we are being listened to, thank you. You're aware that the ONLY thing I used DPS for was for the repair gun, correct? It's not splash, it's 100% consistent, and never reloads. DPS works totally fine for something like that, and I'd rarely see a point in bringing it up for things like single-fire weapons. The only other weapons I ever bring up DPS with are the Volt rifle, chain-guns, and fast-firing weapons that aren't even close to being done with their magazine by the time a second is up. On another note, SFJake's damage chart actually calculated theoretical and 'true' DPS for weapons. I've never cared much for DPS to begin with, unless it was for the weapons like I mentioned above. E.G, like the fact that DPS vs. DPS, Patch out-damages a Technician, but I usually also make it obvious that Patch has to reload after awhile where as a Technician does not. It's still a useful statistic to know if you run into a vehicle being repaired at like 5% health, as YES you can kill that even if there's a Tech on it. TL:DR: I don't do tl;dr.... I mean look at that monstrosity of a guide I wrote =\ ------- Also, did we ever consider giving the Stank an ALT-fire specifically for aircraft so that Nod did have an answer (albeit a more expensive answer) to aircraft in vehicle form? Like a pair of rockets that were slightly faster and did more damage vs aircraft (or light vehicles). Could sort of re-balance it by taking away lock-on capability from the primary rockets.

I start out saying in that old post that they are at roughly 1.5 rate of fire. Actual is ~1.4 which is what I did calculations on. Probably should have corrected that at least when I quoted. Also, DPS works fine in a game that literally has explicit numbers for damage. The ADv. repair gun heals 40 damage a second, I don't care what calcs are used for RPGs and what not. It's pretty self explanatory. And yes, Meds do 64 damage per shot. SFJake's damage chart is still relevant in beta 3 as far as vehicles go EXCEPT for the Mammoth Tank. I never built it all into a damage chart, but I did check damages myself to make sure they were still correct.

Quoted from a topic I made months ago about how Artillery and Techs are actually WAAAAY more cost-effective than MEDS/Hotties until a certain number of Meds is achieved. The only Nod vehicle I see needing to be looked at is probably the Stank...but then again I get decent mileage out of them using them as hit-and-run. They just suck against infantry (unless you're a bot). In lower-pop games, Tech+Arty can literally be unstoppable if they get positioned right. Higher population evens it out ASSUMING GDI has a competent team, but even then Nod can win out with Light tanks (which are better once they get in areas where they can use terrain to their advantage) and Flame tanks to just control corners. The balance is... not really all that far off. GDI is supposed to be better in the vehicle department, and they are but not really by all that much.

I talk about he vet system in that topic, but I don't use it like it was implemented on servers in OldRen. I was talking about re-evaluating it and turning it into a second form of currency that was only attainable by actually DOING things. Think I may have even mentioned that it should be the currency specifically used for items as opposed to credits, as nobody in their right mind deserves to use a Carbine as an Engi unless they've been putting in work to do so. (So much opinion at the end there, but rage opinion)