How were games won in original Renegade ?

[Nyxblow]

Nowadays with commanders we have a large panel of options that can turn the tide in a team's favor and destroy buildings.

In OG Ren however I can clearly remember hotties/techs in APC being a major way of winning games (I have almost never seen this tactic ever in RenX, it's usually with Chinooks).

Some buildings dying to arties was also common certain maps.

Do you remember other strategies from the old times and in particular some that don't exist today?

 

[RustyShackleford]

OG Ren it came down to:

1. Marathon servers were much less common. It was typically 45 min AOW servers.
   1. This is why there was a lot of controversy with the community made patch for OG Ren that fixed the unbalanced points system (you could farm a lot of points using ramjet to shoot heavy armor tanks like mammy, similar to how VP farming with arty works).
   2. Also it was common to purposely allow your most vulnerable building to die in order to prevent point farming. i.e. the Nod Ref on Under.
2. Time-To-Kill in OG Ren was significantly higher than in Ren X. This allowed for Ion/Nuke rushes, since it was a lot easier to cover an Ion/Nuke. Also I think the countdown timer was shorter?
3. APC + Tech/Hottie rush. You are right these were the most popular rushes. OG Ren APC driving dynamic is much simpler. In RenX it is much harder, you'll see people drive into each other trying to APC rush.
4. OG Ren doesn't have EMPs, AT mines or Silos, and of course no veterancy. Everything added in RenX that makes it easier to kill, also makes it easier to defend.
   1. Back in Beta 3 when EMPs were added and they could be bought by any character (and before Commander powers), we regularly had 4 hour matches for several months until EMPs were nerfed. During that short period, tank rushes were nearly non-existent.
   2. Also back in Beta3 when hotties/techs carried Carbines, it made inf-building kills very common. Hottie/tech was cheaper than the 1000chars and could kill just as fast if not faster.

I'd say #3 is most important. If APC handing is improved, the APC rushes will be back.

[Handepsilon]

Hold on, EMPs were added in Beta 3? I kinda forgot

[Yeetler]

You stacked around 50 tank shells behind AIR or WF, then you mass repaired them and rushed the enemy base.

[Madkill40]

On 2/8/2022 at 12:28 AM, RustyShackleford said:

If APC handing is improved, the APC rushes will be back.

If APCs were a bit faster, particularly the GDI APC, that'd be neat tbh. 

If there's anything I miss the most from OldRen, it was the usefulness of APC rushes. Especially after you killed the WF/Air, the APC rush was essentially one of the best ways to get several players in and deal considerable damage to the enemy team. 

APC rushes feel non-existent at this point.

[crazfulla]

In some cases, they weren't. I remember some matches lasting upward of 8 hours. Eventually a server mod had to come in and use a command to end it. Walls was particularly notorious for this, especially when all GDI had left was the barracks. There were no EMPs or anything to disarm the mines, it took a lot of co ordination to pull it off.

I have always been a fan of sneaking, but it wasn't always balanced. On under for example it wasn't as easy to walk the GDI power plant. Harvester walking was also a thing, which I haven't really seen anyone do in RenX. 

On 2/16/2022 at 10:10 PM, Madkill40 said:

If APCs were a bit faster, particularly the GDI APC, that'd be neat tbh. 

If there's anything I miss the most from OldRen, it was the usefulness of APC rushes. Especially after you killed the WF/Air, the APC rush was essentially one of the best ways to get several players in and deal considerable damage to the enemy team. 

APC rushes feel non-existent at this point.

I agree, vehicles on the whole feel a lot slower than they were in original Renegade. The stank for example I remember being able to duck in and out of cover a bit easier. I guess it is due to the addition of veterancy? Does that increase speed? or just armour / firepower?

[Jeffman12]

I remember flamer rushes being a big deal when playing Nod.

Maybe that was just for the initial base-def rush.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Jeffman12

[limsup]

On 2/26/2022 at 11:30 AM, crazfulla said:

Does that increase speed?

Indeed it does.

[Yeetler]

On 2/26/2022 at 11:30 AM, crazfulla said:

Harvester walking was also a thing, which I haven't really seen anyone do in RenX. 

 

It is actually possible to harv walk in Under. 

[Handepsilon]

It really is still possible yeah. Nobody has never done it anymore unfortunately

[limsup]

It is not viable on all maps, and chances are, the enemy team is base locked with about 20+ out of 32 people are bound to be around spotting and killing you. Furthermore, Commander might have stopped the harvester alltogether.

[Guthead]

Often by me, I would solo hotwire or tech and sneak my way into the enemy base(on the biggest games with most players), I was a savage with the pistol so usually if spotted I could take on whoever it was. Nothing more satisfying than sneaking in the enemy base of 60+ player maps and destroying one of the bases. Stealth Black Hand nukes were always a good option for Nod, or fill APC's with engineers and techs/hotwires if the map has defenses, everyone rush to get a remote explosive off on the panel quick. Or once in a base with a bunch in an APC, try and sneak off while the rest go for a base and you can maybe solo a different building with your tech/hotwire if you're clear of any Guard Towers or Hand of Nod. Man I miss this game I was so damn good when I was younger ha, sniping headshots and techs/hotwires were my specialty.

[RustyShackleford]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:08 PM, Handepsilon said:

It really is still possible yeah. Nobody has never done it anymore unfortunately

I have several times, I did it around labour day weekend last year on a >50player match. ppl got mad.

I actually stopped doing it cause anything fun and out of the ordinary gets removed.

[limsup]

4 hours ago, RustyShackleford said:

I actually stopped doing it cause anything fun and out of the ordinary gets removed.

[Qicksh0t]

Hey all, OG Renegade player here.

I admittingly haven't played more than 10-20 hours of RenX, so I don't really understand how the game has evolved over the years.

Here is what I remember from the original:

Tactics greatly depended on the number of players in the server. The larger the player count, the more likely the game was to come down to points instead of base destruction wins.

The thing that I absolutely loved about this game is that the tactics that you used were very situational and knowing what to do at the right time was how you won games.

For clan wars (2v2, 3v3), base destruction was a much more common win condition. Tactics usually included

• APC + Hotwire/Tech rush - or buggy/humvee on non-base defense maps.
• Med/Light + Hotwire/Tech
• Med + MRLS or Light + Arty
• Some tank + APC (APC could farm a surprising amount defending the main siege vehicle against enemy)
• Flame/Stealth rush could work in the right situation, such as having 1 person defend by repairing while 1-2 others go and rush the enemy base.
• Ion/Nuke were much easier to get off in smaller matches. 
• GDI had an advantage of infantry rush early game, since obelisk would only hit 1 player if spread out enough (i.e. Field rushing Refinery)
• Unrelated, but field actually had bugs where you could walk backwards toward the obelisk as gdi and you could make it to the obby before it struck you. Additionally, as Nod, you could wall hop into the GDI refinery. These were largely considered cheats in the clanwar community.

For larger matches (say 24+ players), win by points was much more likely.

• Destroying the enemy barracks in early game was actually a benefit to the enemy team, since kills against specialty infantry units yielded a ton of points. Conversely, destroying the WF/Airstrip early game was really good because it forced the enemy team to use specialized infantry.
• Getting mammoth tanks was a bad idea from a points perspective. Blowing one of these things up gave a ton of points to the enemy team. Often, players could farm more points by attacking the mammoth than the mammoth could actually score by attacking (depending on the match size). That being said, if your team had the advantage and was able to just farm buildings the entire game, this would work, BUT if it was a close game, then Mammoths were a huge source of points for the enemy.
• Farming points with MRLS/Arty was by far the quickest and most effective way of a points win. Protecting enough of these with hotties/techs would put your team very far ahead.
• APC rushes were less effective the larger the player count went up, simply because there was so much defense at the front of the enemy base that could just destroy APCs (unless there were multiple vehicle paths into a base)
• On flying maps (Walls Flying, City Flying), transport rushes with hotties/techs could be effective. You had a number of building options to hit on City... 

 

This is just what I remember, I'm sure I've forgotten a lot and haven't played in years... I played my first game in a very long time last night. I put an absolute ton of hours into this game and it is one of (if not THE) all time favorite games of mine.

- Qick