How are donations going?

[isupreme]

I know it was only a bit ago that we were given permission by EA to accept donations....

But i can not help but be curious....  so how is going?     Do we donate much?  More 1 time or more monthly?  Going up or going down?   Is it helpful or just a drop in the bucket?  etc...

And  1 question.    If I donate to Renegade X does it get spent on Firestorm development?    I.E.   Where do my donations go  and how do they help?

Edited November 30, 2021 by isupreme

[Handepsilon]

Well, I cannot really disclose the number, but it's definitely a lot more than my laptop's price, which is saying something.

As for where we're spending it, so far we're using them to support infrastructure of both RenX and Firestorm, and to pay for freelancers service. The latter is usually for the art side of things, such as vehicle models. Mobile Sensor Array and Stealth Generator would be examples of those.

[isupreme]

well,  ok...

  but I see no reason why donations can not be transparent.    Hiding the information does not inspire more donations.

I would prefer basic information be made available.     Let us know how we are helping.

[Agent]

iirc there were a few thousand dollars back in May (~4-5 months into donations). I would assume that balance has grown since, but wouldn't actually know, and there's no way to know what donations are actually spent on beyond "IT and freelancers". As far as I'm aware / as far as I recall, no developer has had to pay for anything RenX related in 2021 specifically (though they certainly did try to back out of that...), nor has any volunteer (non-freelancer) dev profited in any way.

For context, our IT costs were typically running < $200/mo going into May from what I recall, but I don't seem to have my accounting notes readily available.

Emphasis on the "as far as I'm aware" / "iirc" qualifiers and that none of that should be taken as fact; I could certainly be wrong or mistaken on any detail, I can mostly just assume folks have been honest and extrapolate data from the first several months of the year and a few other data points.

 

Personally I would love for there be more transparency around donations, if not to the community at large then at least to those who have a direct stake in the project: ALL devs (with none of the 'former'/inactive vs 'current'/active nonsense). Unfortunately I kind of doubt that'll happen (and honestly it's kind of a coin flip whether or not this post will get deleted since everyone's gonna over-analyze every word and make me out as the devil lol).

[Handepsilon]

Just to be clear, I didn't disclose the number because I didn't receive any a-ok with the rest of the team... partly because I never ask.

But here's my personal take here: 

When real money is involved, especially in volunteer projects like this, things get a lot more finicky. Of course if we look at the surface level, there's no reason for us to hide the numbers, but once we show it... what then? Are you going to believe the numbers that we show to you, or are you just going to start theorycrafting that we actually had more/less than what we showed?

Honestly I feel like the numbers are just going to invite greed urges. I look at the numbers about once every two months or so, but it's enough for me to feel uneasy, partly because I came from a poorer background than other people (my laptop and headphone were actually donated to me). I dunno, I just don't want to risk inviting trouble and dangerous thoughts.

[Agent]

I agree that things get finicky, like people might suddenly start pushing people out as soon as them covering the bills for years on end is no longer necessary. Not saying that was everyone's thought process, but I can think of at least one person where I truly think that was the case.

Publishing some sort of numbers, at least internally where stakeholders (including both 'current' and 'former' devs) can see them, would help repair some of the mistrust directed towards the team. As far as I'm aware, there's zero accountability or accounting being done for these donations. There's zero transparency. At least if some sort of numbers are published, the chain of trust is strengthened -- for there to be malpractice, someone would have to be lying about both the published numbers and the misuse of funds, rather than just lying about (or just not mentioning) misuse of donated funds.

Organizationally, there's still some serious issues around the donations, and lack of transparency even internally. It's a concerning trend that's gotten much much worse over the course of the year (2021).

[isupreme]

I think it would be impossible for us to donate the full needs of this project.    So why not give us the basics and let us see how much we can help?

The following is my dramatization of how i see this situation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So..   . i can donate into a Black Hole of Unknowing..... and get no feedback...

or ?    I could donate to a cause that communicates with me about what my actions have done.   Paid for server?  Nice.    Helped with updates?   Roger that sir!   Raised the overall total of donations to ..... what is it up to? Really?    Vnice.

Which sounds like teamwork?

I have donated because of the Phenomenal Effort that has gone into this game.    I donated because I am thankful for the fun it brings into my life.   But I feel that with the new ability to over time - take in donations : that there is a larger responsibility to the participants.

Edited January 15, 2022 by isupreme

[Axesor]

It does not matter where is money going. The game is going. Servers are up. The developement is going. For how much years now? To keep the things roll, this is the best thing that comunity can do for the devs, and this game. The comunity itself wanted it.

There wouldnt be this game if there wasnt noone who would take the care. And I bet the donations are very motivating.

Either the money goes dirrectly into the server, or the pocket of some individual, the game is still being supported.

So this is my opinion. I wouldnt care where is money going as long as everyghins is alright.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Axesor

[Luhrian]

Hey,

first of all I want to thank you and everybody else who supported us with a donation.

Although we will not share too many numbers for reasons, that were explained by Hande above, we are planing to bring a bit more regular transperency into the development process in general, so you don't feel like you are donating into a black hole of nothing.

[RustyShackleford]

On 12/29/2021 at 2:34 PM, Agent said:

iirc

 

On 12/29/2021 at 2:34 PM, Agent said:

I would assume

 

On 12/29/2021 at 2:34 PM, Agent said:

but wouldn't actually know

 

On 12/29/2021 at 2:34 PM, Agent said:

As far as I'm aware / as far as I recall

 

On 12/29/2021 at 2:34 PM, Agent said:

from what I recall

 

On 12/29/2021 at 2:34 PM, Agent said:

Emphasis on the "as far as I'm aware" / "iirc"

 

On 12/29/2021 at 2:34 PM, Agent said:

none of that should be taken as fact

 

On 12/29/2021 at 2:34 PM, Agent said:

Unfortunately I kind of doubt that'll happen (and honestly it's kind of a coin flip whether or not this post will get deleted since everyone's gonna over-analyze every word and make me out as the devil lol)

 

 

[Agent]

If I don’t feel something I’m saying is an irrefutable fact and isn’t an obvious opinion, or if I’m having to recall something without referring to logs/notes, I’m going to use qualifiers far more often to indicate such to the reader so that they know information somewhere along the way could indeed be wrong, but that I do believe such to be accurate (and in general probably is accurate). This topic especially is one where an erroneous statement would be far more likely to upset someone.

That said the bill gates clip is always funny lol

[Atomsk]

Who cares - devs have brought this game to life, have kept it running, others have shelled out money to run servers... I cannot imagine the total cost of working hours, infrastructure, licenses, freelance work that has been put into this game. Why should TA be transparant about where that money goes? Get some cocaine and hookers for all I care, I'd be happy to donate some of my money towards that. 

Developing a game, keeping it alive, after all these years and now that devs finally get the jackboot of EA off of their necks, people want transparency what is being done with donations. 

[Agent]

To be brutally honest I personally want transparency because I’m one of the all of two people I’m immediately aware of who did indeed shell out thousands over the years to keep it running, and nobody remaining on the team actually has come close to that. So yeah, I want to know where it’s going. Folks who have dumped thousands of hours of effort into the project also deserve that information. Whether that means public or internal transparency I don’t really care, but accountability is important to me.

It’s principally why I privately discourage folks from donating currently. It’s indeed a black box associated with what I privately refer to as a criminal organization (due to the whole, ya know, conspiracy to commit grand larceny and all that, though surely it must be that they still don't truly understand what it is that they have done right?).

[RustyShackleford]

20 minutes ago, Agent said:

I privately refer to as a criminal organization

Here I thought it was just a bunch of wizards that got picked last in gym class. 

This is so much cooler, and it really shows that crime does pay.

How do I join this crime gang?

[Agent]

There's a Jobs page at the top

[Cronus]

Topic has been answered and is starting to derail. Locking.